A commentary and Question to the Developers

In trying to fully understand why some classes seem to remain unfinished, I asked one of my fellow high level crafters for insight. What I learned was, that despite long term feedback from those most affected, and despite the fact that their class was never even finished when the game went live, nor is it complete today, this class has been left on the back burner for some reason. I am not a confectioner, so I asked the high level CNF's on chaos what the concerns were and for a history lesson. After gathering up a ton of info including what exp is gained at high levels and what it is gained from, I must say I was a bit shocked.

Many have commented on the CNF class, and enumerated the disparity that exists for them, from having a few forms still in game that are inconsistant with previous tiers, to not having food products to gain exp from post lvl 80. On top of those injurys, insult was added by introducing crafter made ambrosia for level 80+ players. Although this may have been viewed as a stop gap measure to help adventurers, it basically made the food that confectioners make MUCH less desireable, and killed the food market. On top of these things, they are the only class that do not have T5 forms to level their craft with. They do have t5 cookware forms, like sheets and roasters, and it appears that this is what they are supposed to level off of, not food produsts. What seems most odd about this, is that as a level 100 tinker I can make these same items. However from my experience with geostone clay and making sheets, no level 80 CNF will make much exp from them. You have to be a level 100 CNF and wear gear teched with earthencraft, to be effecient at making any of these products.

To put this into perspective, what would this look like if the same things had happened to, say, armorcrafters? It would mean that once you had reached level 80 armorer, you would be able to mine and smelt mithril but would have to level off of a limited selection of t3 and t4 armor pieces. From 80 to 100 off steel and cobalt armor... *shudder!* If this had taken place, can you imagine the outcry we would have heard from all the adventurers out there, not to mention the armorcrafters that would be directly affected?

On top of all this, killing food sales has even negated the purpose of the tavern structure. So, even though some may feel its just a few loud voices taking the "crusade" to an extreme, from my perspective, it is very easy to see what they are so upset, and why many have quit out of frustration. I don't believe that TG wants anymore player to leave for that reason.That is exactly why I made this post, to calmly comment on the concerns, and ask for a few ideas to be considered.

The standard answer through all this has been that CNF changes are on the back burner until other more important issues are completed, currently after AROP and LAIRS are done. The idea has been put forth that AE, and now TG want to rewrite the class completely. However, amid all the work done to complete the arop and lairs, new weapons, set items, blighted equipment for all tiers, and even the start of a new emblem system. Because of this, it's easy to see why confectioners are upset and do not believe what has been told to them.

The comments have been made, that a full rewrite of the class is what is planned, and because of how far reaching the changes will be from a complete overhaul, TG has waited until they have the ability to devote their full development resources to it. This is reasonable, and totally understandable. It is even the best possible way to address the problem, since much of the complaints are due to the CNF class being only partly completed before the game went live, and never having been completed since. I don't believe they would want a bunch of mucked up new forms that were rushed out the door just to hush them up. But as has been demonstrated, some of the easier forms can indeed be made quickly and still remain useable by the intended audience. ( deamon weapons )

However, this does beg the question...

Tulga Games, David, Manga, and all the others Dev's...

What prevents you from at least adding the T5 food forms?
It is obvious to us all that even with you working on lairs, and AROP, that you were able to create from scratch emblems and weapons that had never even been mentioned or planned when you started work on the promised dragon content. You have templates for all the needed food items in the form of previous tiers of foods, you have the excel spreadsheet that was sent to you as a helpful guide, and you could just use a place holder icon for now to not hold up the process. If you do this, it will be a show of good faith on your part, and will hopefully tide them over until a full rewrite can take place. Even rolling back the usage of ambrosia to level 80 adventurers and below would restore food sales. If you are unwilling to make those changes, how about changing the time limit on ambrosia to once every 24 hours not every 20 min? View these as interim fixes until you can do the job right.

Surely these are reasonable requests.

( P.S. Entilzah, Please realize this is a commentary with a question to the devs, it's not a rant, and if some try to hijack this with overt comments, I hope you just remove the flames and leave the calm and considerate contributions. OH!, and maybe a DEV will respond )[;)]

Well presented and researched and thought out Aamer

So because you say it is not a rant, it should not be moved ? What is the difference between a rant and what you wrote ?

Thats easy.

I offer calm suggstions, and I am an outside observer.

I am not pissed nor am I upset about anything.

A rant is a non-constructive venting of spleen. This was constructive criticism and a reasoned request for some information. Since it contains suggestions, it might arguably be moved to Suggestions, but as someone very happy Rants exists so she doesn't have to read them, I'd say this is certainly not one.

-Levity Merrel

I'm really sorry to have to move it, but it's a confectioner topic. I already stated when previous confectioner topics ended up in a bad state that further topics on the subject would be moved here. I really wanted to let confectioners get a bit of limelight which is why I had allowed CNF topics to remain in the General forum prior to certain individuals wading in and turning them into rants.

I know it doesn't count for much, but I've been told that the devs are indeed going over both the suggestions forum and this confectioner forum to guage player feedback on the school, so maybe it's just as well all the CNF topics are grouped together.

I tried to accomodate CNF posts in the general forum but since some people used that as an opportunity to rant away thinking that because it's the general forum they'll get an immediate and gratifying response from the developers, I had to draw the line. Those who know me in-game know all too well that I intend to become more vocal and forthcoming with constructive criticism regarding the confectioner school if nothing happens after ARoP and lairs. Sure, we were told December 2004 for those, it came and went, and ETAs were disposed of. So now I wait patiently for our turn in the development cycle and look forward to seeing what the developers propose at that time.

I'd like to say thank you to Aamer for his taking the time to speak up for a class he doesn't personally have an invested interest in. Having someone who isn't a confectioner address this issue in a calm, rational manner shows that at least confectioners are being heard, and are garnering some support.
It's difficult to go from day to day feeling ignored and ostracized because you are passionate about what you do. And this is something I've seen happen to some dear friends of mine who are confectioners.
But I'm not going to go on a rant, that's not my style. I will say, though, please look at your class that you have chosen, and imagine what it would be like if that had been a class like confectioner.... And please think of adding your voice to those of us who are pleading for a little attention for those who have persevered through so much.

I have to pretty much agree with Aamer on this one. That's a rational, objective analysis of the situation.

I can see a few reasons why the T5 foods aren't in game yet, though I can't explain the incomplete JMan forms. As near as I can tell, T5 foods probably would require ingredients that aren't in game yet. This means a fair bit of artwork and new resources. yes, they've added several new weapons, but my Zealot is visually indestinguishable from a normal (bastard?) sword, so no new artwork was required.

This by itself might not be enough. I think that this is compounded by the fact that they may be considering a complete "redo" of the confectioner class, which would mean that any work they put into it is at risk of being discarded, so they're focusing on things with more permenance.

Note, this is my guess at the reasoning, not a justification.

Edit: The *** above is the 2HS sword with the "objectionable" name that's the lesser version of the "Two Handed Sword"

WOOT thanks ever so Aamer!! I am a level 55 confectioner and getting REALLY scared about the higher levels. I don't make food for profit, I make it for guildies. But after I hit level 80 there really is no where to go unless I just sit and make pans I can not use for anything or continue making T4 foods that really do my guildmates no good since the majority are level 100.

I see what you are saying about the artwork Kengar, but most of the JMan forms use the same ingredients as the beginner ones with one addition. Potatoes, raw gruok, raw beef, raw mutton, carrots, all used in both beginner and Jman forms. so no new artwork needed. We already have mackerel, so the fish is set.

Hope to see some changes REAL soon : ) I LOVE confectioner but getting scared to level too much farther