Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
I haven't read everyone's suggestions but I have to say yes please to the possiblity of getting Reklar's tail scale on Order. I had come to the conclusion a few years back the only way it would happen is if I level my chaos hatchling, finally get the scale and pay for a character transfer to get the scale to Order. I think I can count on one hand how many times Dracaena on Order has killed Reckler, and still have fingers left over.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
I Love the idea of this , no more soggy tooth picks as loot.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
I sign ALL Guaran`s suggestions.
Esp. the concerns.
All other I am really not sure if its real progress- or the direction it should go.
As said: Not sure
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dracaena
I haven't read everyone's suggestions but I have to say yes please to the possiblity of getting Reklar's tail scale on Order. I had come to the conclusion a few years back the only way it would happen is if I level my chaos hatchling, finally get the scale and pay for a character transfer to get the scale to Order. I think I can count on one hand how many times Dracaena on Order has killed Reckler, and still have fingers left over.
Yes to this. I'd support the tokens just for this problem even if they were specific to that mob and its components only. When you are running five to six months of near non-stop Reklar and can't even get tail piece 3 to drop and have seen only sash piece 4 drop once in that time, then the fun factor gets completely lost. I could even understand it if the rarer components to finish the entire epic item cost more in tokens than the others because at least the hard work would pay off to earning the full item rather than six months of utter frustration and eventually being defeated by a culmination of nothing for the time and effort.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
what about leaving current loot the way it is, but add tokens as part of the loot drop chance to drop a single token. as for venders maybe make the pieces cost 20 tokens, the repair form say 10 tokens more than one piece or a whole item for say as a example 10 tokens more than the combined cost of pieces needed + the repair formula. example if a item needs 5 pieces to make whole, at 20 tokens per piece and 30 tokens for the form, that's 140 tokens
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Quote:
If it aint broke, don't fix it.
I agree with this to a degree. The only thing wrong with the current system is the drop chances, and something is needed to alleviate that - either even out the drop rates or have the boss drop a token (or tokens) that can be exchanged for any piece (or some of the old pieces!) from that one boss at a vendor. Old items could be attached to different bosses - hunt Reklar for his tokens and either 1) Use the tokens to get the piece that has been evading you or 2) Save up the tokens for a while longer and get that otherwise unacquirable Boar's Mask, hunt Valkor and stockpile tokens to buy the talon piece you want or save up a while longer and get a Zealot,. And so on...
I don't think any changes to the system are needed beyond that. Admittedly, some messing around with token drop chances or the price of the old items at the vendors would have to be done to allow people to complete items in a timely manner while still making the old items the tokens could also be exchanged for not easily acquired.
Edit: The idea to have a daily quest to (For ex) kill Reklar and get some tokens to be exchanged eventually for any Reklar piece also seems quite nice - would take tokens out of the loot table for Reklar himself to give more room to the actual pieces, while still giving everyone at least something useful for killing him.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmonGwareth
Thanks for the feedback thus far. I think 7 tokens and vendors is a no-go for us, its potentially VERY confusing and a pain to manage and setup.
One thing we'd already planned was to have bosses drop different amounts of tokens (based on difficulty) and also have different items have differing values (so yes, items like Boar's Hide Mask or Demongii would be VERY expensive). The need to re-assemble items would remain as they are now.
I like the idea of a quest to get extra tokens, perhaps a daily.
Currently items range from 20 to 50 Tokens (Valkor and Reklar item components), 200 to 400 Tokens (SoG items, Boar's Hide Mask), to 1000 or more for Epic spells (using the effects not in-game such as Soul Gate, Wrath of the Power Demon, Fireflies, etc).
Bosses would drop anywhere from 10 to 50 (based on difficulty).
One additional consideration is that we're looking into the possibility of having Tier 6 Anchors drop these Tokens as well. Thoughts?
Single token then. Varying amounts dropped from bosses, and price accordingly the items available. We know this tech already exists in game, Imperial Rank Tokens, etc. Bottom line I think here is the idea of giving everyone a chance for boss encounters as well as reward them for time put in. This guaranteed loot alone should motivate plenty of people. It's unfortunate that those whom already have the rarities would lose value, but they're also the same people who stay ahead in the game. There isn't much you could do to deter them.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
I've stayed relatively quiet on this topic so far but in my view the tokens are needed to fix the current issue.
Also i'd say yes to including T6anchors in the list of epics.
As for anyone who thinks the current system is fine.... try building rekkies tail.scale. atleast or order to my knowledge no one has it.
Excellent work on this devs keep it up.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Had another thought regarding this.
1. Change the components so that all "Epic" items share components similar to the Broken Item system
2. Epic bosses drop 1 required component for each weapon making them still desired to hunt
3. Item Components are purchased using Tokens that are earned from looting the bosses or daily quests
4. Formulas, and this is a crazy idea, could be either a) Unlimited use but would be very expensive or b) one-time use and much cheaper
Thoughts?
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
All sound good to me, but on #4 why have a one-time formula instead of a potion/scroll/other single-use item? Formulas should not self-delete, imo - too scary & confusing if unexpected.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Quote:
1. Change the components so that all "Epic" items share components similar to the Broken Item system
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2. Epic bosses drop 1 required component for each weapon making them still desired to hunt
In my opinion, some items currently require too many pieces to make. The tail piece requires four, which is nice, but the chakram and the cudgel requiring 6 is too much. Instead of requiring one actual piece from the boss, I think it'd be better for require 2, at the most 3 for those things that are to be rarer than the rest. 1 actual piece from the epic mob I would say is too little, and 6 is too much. Adding tokens required to trade at vendors for some bits you need for the weapon would make 2-3 actual pieces from the epic mob just right. Personally, requiring a player to get some bits from a vendor to compete an epic weapon is undesirable. Oh, you found this beautifully crafted axe in the treasure chest of the hoard of that dragon you killed...! But whoops, the handle is missing, go visit a vendor and get one that'll fit. Just, 'ugh' to that.
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4. Formulas, and this is a crazy idea, could be either a) Unlimited use but would be very expensive or b) one-time use and much cheaper
I like the way the forms for epic mobs work currently, and adding a one-time-use form might make the permanent forms sorta obsolete - why buy a permanent one when you can save a whole bunch of time buying the one time use? However, if the one time use was only cheaper instead of much cheaper, I think adding in one time use forms could be beneficial - but, without knowing how much cheaper you had in mind, can't say much on that.
A sufficient change might be to just make all items take 3-4 pieces to make (5 with the form, but you can use those over and over), even out the loot tables percent-change-to-drop wise, and it's all good. Currently, there are so many pieces that evening out the loot tables wouldn't help. More pieces means you have a smaller chance of seeing that one piece you want. Less pieces with each one having an even chance to drop would help a lot with getting 'that final piece needed'. Far less work than adding vendors/etc, too.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
I can`t say that I `m enthusiastic about your new ideas Amon.
And Alisto- I disagree that 6 parts are too much for the few parts that are worth hunting for.
Am I the only one who says that most of the epic loot is obsolete and hardly worth hunting for,
cause crafted items teched and socketed are much better?.
Thats the prob I see.
And do not tell me the epic loot is for non-crafters: That is what broken items are for.
We do NOT need more of that.
What we need is NEW loot and NEW challenges
Those who are able to hunt bosses do not want old ones with only a face lift, some Botox and modern dresses.
Sorry if I repeat what others and I have said many times before:
Give us Faffnir, Gruck & Co and some nice NEW loot-instead of beating the dead horses..( SoG Valkor Reklar)
Those indeed need some refreshment- but the probs are not solved with new (easier?) methods to win old fashioned loot .
BTW- Daknor never was obsolete or boring- nor his loot!
What does he have-others do not have??
He seems as young as he was when he entered Istaria :P
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmonGwareth
Had another thought regarding this.
1. Change the components so that all "Epic" items share components similar to the Broken Item system
2. Epic bosses drop 1 required component for each weapon making them still desired to hunt
3. Item Components are purchased using Tokens that are earned from looting the bosses or daily quests
4. Formulas, and this is a crazy idea, could be either a) Unlimited use but would be very expensive or b) one-time use and much cheaper
Thoughts?
4 - is certianly a crazy idea! haha, the forms work quite well as they are - especially, as awdz pointed out, it would be agitating and annoying to have the unexpected event of it deleting itself. Even if they were cheap i would still not desire them to be bought...
Also means (With current system) that you need to hunt the mob you want the epic thing from no matter what sort of token system is introduced.
1 - sounds kinda nice. I presume meaning they'd drop e.g. epic item axe peice, epic item staff peice, epic item handle peice etc. And with a formula - say for a sword - you'd need x amout of handle, x amount of sword peices. Also is assuming that all epics would have a chance to drop any peice? Or, would it be only peices of stuff they produce? Like - you have to hunt reklar for tail peices to drop as it wouldn't drop form valk?
3/2 - As for dailies, i don't know whether i like the idea yet. It really depends on what sort of daily it would be. (myself, i think it should give you a quest for an epic mob, you hunt/kill the mob, and instead of the mob dropping x amount of tokens or whatever, the quest would give you the tokens as a reward. Everyone gets fair amount of tokens. Although, it would work much better as a quest that can be repeated rather than a "daily" (daily infers once per day)).
Hunting the epic needed is a yes. I'm certain is has already been raised in this thread - you need to hunt the mob, no easy way of getting one.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Quote:
What we need is NEW loot and NEW challenges
I agree with this! But first, I think we should find a loot system that works, as well as changes to make drops worth it, so you don't spend another year or so hunting for that one piece to get something that makes you take /more/ damage off of Fafnir as opposed to hunting that tail scale 3 piece off of Reklar which is also worse than crafted. Admittedly, I wouldn't mind the low drop chances if some of the epic items weren't awful, but even then I'd say some of the pieces still need drop-chance changes.
I don't mean to say that 6 pieces is too 'hard' or anything - merely that (if this makes sense >_>) removing some pieces would allow more 'room' on the loot table for the rarer items to have a chance to drop. I don't know how the game decides what drops, so I'm going with a circle and a spinner pointer thing at the center and when you kill the boss, the spinner spins and points to a piece, and pieces take up this or that percentage of the circle and thus have a greater or smaller chance to drop. In case any part of my post was unclear, Love ^^ Also, imo, none of the pieces are truly worth what it takes to get them from a purely "I want that item in order to increase my killing/defensive effectiveness." If I did not RP, I probably wouldn't hunt them at all.
I've probably said this already, but I agree with Azath on the point of daily quests.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Token systems are always an interesting trade-off.
Stop dropping items nobody wants, everyone gets a small step towards a big goal (rather than one or two people getting a big goal and everyone else being empty handed.) It does encourage sniping the "easier" targets in a farm-style, but it also provides a good deal more incentive. Everyone will want every boss, because tokens are tokens. It takes some of the erratic randomness of a potential forever-grind (bad luck, bad drops, bad rolls) to a simple matter-of-time. For better or worse? It's hard to say.
If there are bosses that are rarely killed and drops that people can almost never get, then I say tokens may be best, or some sort've crafted-approach. Something to enable people to obtain what they want with a good deal of work - being utterly victim to the devious RNG can really just not be fun after long enough. Or maybe even a mix of tokens + small chance of an item, or something else. Some kind of incentive for people who have extra tokens or don't really need them for X items may be nice - extra things beyond the normal look to provide encouragement for folks to help out with token droppers, just as a thought.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
I read all about this new idea and I just think.....what's the point?
Just add them to the Vet Reward window.
It's not like they are needed or will even be hunted by most. I know I don't own one 'Epic piece' on my Dragon and it's not stopped me from hunting everything in-game effectively.
It's fluff but it's far from being important fluff.
This game survives because of the crafting. End of.
Give some love to the crafters, new style of tools, new plot structures (not like the pointless Barn thou) T6 craft suits?
Yes, I hunt but I also craft now and know where my time is spent now. Do you think crafters all enjoy looking the same in there Ironsilk cargo outfits all holding the same tool?
The point i'm making is Epic loot is good if it gets some of the spell effects and items that were once claimed to be lost back in the game but I know a lot of people that don't even own a char with more than 1 Adventure school on it, let alone think about 'End game' hunting. They spend everyday crafting plots or Items for these 'Hunters' so I think it's about time they got some love rather that the 10 or so players that actually hunt Epic bosses ;)
The new items can be put in as Vet rewards, job done. No time wasted on 'ideas' and that time can be spent on keeping crafters happy for once.....like a craftbook that actually holds all the forms without attempting to crash the game when opening it ect..
Many idea's for crafting are on the forums recently and I don't think one has been answered even thou as we all know Crafters pay the wages ;)
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
I get the point Sind-
And do agree with you here and there.
But again- I could imagine, that both is possible, cause both would need different ressources- means different devs.
Anyway- I would not mind if crafters will get some love first.
But this is not what this thread is about.
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sindala
I read all about this new idea and I just think.....what's the point?
Just add them to the Vet Reward window.
It's not like they are needed or will even be hunted by most. I know I don't own one 'Epic piece' on my Dragon and it's not stopped me from hunting everything in-game effectively.
It's fluff but it's far from being important fluff.
Lov pointed out that loot needs to be better, and Alisto improved on that saying we need a loot system that works first. (i mean, i want a tail scale but for any if at all improvements to be useful to it, people need to actually have the loot to get one first.)
If epic loot was good people might consider it "needed" but first, we need a system that works.
And FYI - on order at least, i know many who leap at the chance of epic hunts - some, just to hunt, but most for the epic loot. If used right, some of the loot can be used effectively - only some though, like i see people hunt valkor but not for the staff. If it was all effective/usefull...then i cycle around to neeidng a new system!
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmonGwareth
1. Change the components so that all "Epic" items share components similar to the Broken Item system
2. Epic bosses drop 1 required component for each weapon making them still desired to hunt
3. Item Components are purchased using Tokens that are earned from looting the bosses or daily quests
4. Formulas, and this is a crazy idea, could be either a) Unlimited use but would be very expensive or b) one-time use and much cheaper
Thoughts?
If what you're suggesting with 1,2, and 3 is that you get the necessary (insert epic gear name here) piece from the mob and then you need X amount of (insert chunk of applicable material type here) that you purchase from a vendor using looted tokens to make the epic item I think that's reasonable... certainly less irritating than trying for a specific piece that never drops. Would basically make it: once you get the one piece and the form for the item you want, you're golden! Just grind away at the respective mob until you've got enough tokens to pay for the necessary amount of broken pieces and poof! There's your epic item. The number of necessarily looted pieces I'd certainly be happy to negotiate, any improvement from the current "Kill and hope for loot, then hope it's the one you're looking for, then hope you win it in a roll" is what I'm looking for. As for daily quests giving you the tokens, why not just make it a repeatable kill X epic mob quest like Azath said? That way, all participants receive some benefit from the hunt even if they don't get the dropped item(s). Would certainly be a good way to encourage more participation in hunts.
As for 4, I don't see any reason to buy a formula more than once, however cheap it may be... I only grudgingly bought the same forms more than once as a necessity to work my alts up to a decent level of craft. Disappearing forms after a certain amount of use is not something I'd agree with, just one more thing on the ever-growing list of things to keep track of. I'd much rather pay a high price for a very useful or desirable form than have to buy it over and over again every time I want to use it.
I've also gotta agree with LOVWRYM and Azath, not having any epic items whatsoever hasn't impacted my ability to hunt efficiently. There's hardly an epic item I wouldn't want at some point but I don't need them as I can craft things just as nice and with the level 100 crystals in them even better! New loot and new items? Sign me up right away! Only new lore like what was in the Crystalshaper update can get me out of whatever crafting I happen to be doing at the moment quicker than that ;)
Re: Talk to the Team: Epic Loot
I appreciate all of your feedback. I wanted to let you know that work on this system is underway. Along those lines, Epic Bosses are being divided into two types - Greater and Lesser.
Greater: Valkor, Reklar, SoG, and Shaloth.
Lesser: Daknor, Fafnir, Gruk and Surtheim.
Are there any others you would consider "epic" that might fit the Lesser category?
Some other possibilities: Avatar of Pain, Zhaguxal (Colossal Scorpion), Spirit of Dralnok, Elial, Rift Guardians.