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Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
In our on-going work to improve the game for players and to reduce the barrier-to-entry (that is, the learning curve and the difficulty of getting very far into the game) we wanted to run an idea past you. Currently, if a player wants new armor or weapons or even spells they must seek out other players or learn to make it themselves. This can often be difficult if no-one is online who can make the item or who knows it. Or worse, if the player would have to spend many days learning to make the items themselves by joining a school and leveling it.
One solution to this would be to add non-teched items to existing Trainers so that players could purchase un-teched items for immediate use. Only items that are also sold as formulas would be available (so, for example, an Armorsmith Trainer would only sell Ringmail and Scalemail, not Chainmail or Platemail) and these would be un-teched.
This would still leave a market for teched items as well as for the looted variety of items. But it would provide a mechanism for players who are new to the game or in the middle tiers to obtain basic equipment for their level quickly, while still providing a market for existing players by providing techniqued equipment.
Questions, comments, feedback welcome. Would you support this enhancement?
A. Yes
B. No
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I disagree with the notion that making the game easier and reducing the learning curve and difficulty is a positive step. Those are exactly the things that make Istaria worth playing. If someone wants easy, they can play WoW, Rift, or one of many other theme park designs.
I find the negative sentiment that a player may have to spend time learning a trade in order to provide themselves goods, shocking. Istaria is foremost a crafting MMOG after all.
Considering the state of Istaria currently in regards to player base size and thus economic health though, it really doesn't matter if you add these things to vendors.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I support the idea, but I can't help but to wonder, why no plate or chain?
What good does it do to allow people to purchase Lv1 equipment, and then they reach Level 10 and then they're running back to the Consigner looking for Lv11 armor again?
Mobs <Lv11 can oftentimes be killed while naked anyways, even if you're just a plain warrior and nothing but.
If we're going to have T1 armor on consigners, we might as well go Whole-Hog and make the Chain and Plate available too.
As long as it is untech'd, I don't really get why it'd be overpowered, as it is only Tier 1, and at least a Lv20 character has access to more stuff than a Lv10 character would.
As for learning how to craft your own, that is kind of a catch-22:
The Chain and Plate Formulas are not sold by any NPC; you have to kill junk to get it. But, as you get Level 11, you need new armor, right? You can't get that armor unless you, or someone else crafts it. You can't craft it without killing hordes of mobs... but yet you're Lv11 and you need armor...
See the run-around circle here? At least a Lv20 would have full access to all Tier 1 mobs (and thus be able to farm up Tier 1 form drops).
Edit: Keep forgetting that Chain/Plate is Lv11, not Lv10
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I thought this was pretty much available on the imperial vendors....I know I just bought refurburished hide armor for my monk and refurbished plate for my warrior.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
How about just including a full set of starting (refurbished) armor to new characters when they join an adventure school as part of the starting equipment, like weapons and shields? This way they're not running around in a pair of starting pants and and a t-shirt. They also won't have to spend their hard earned copper on buying the refurbished stuff once they get to NT.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I like the idea of refurbished gear being available for tiers II - IV as well as tier I. By the time they get to the higher tiers, they will most likely be looking for crafters who can make properly tech'd gear anyway. I do not see how it hurts to have something minimal available to the desperate. It's not like crafters are falling over each other looking for business at the middle tiers.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
A happy YES from here
But I also support Draeconis` idea,
and would sign what Awdz says- but only for t1 - t3.
I am sure- such a measure will help to make newbies stay longer!
And it does not hurt anybody.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
How about this? Vendors that give quests requesting certain amounts of gear (5 chainmail helms), give coin and xp for completing those quests, then turn around and sell what they have.
This keeps the creation of materials in-house, gives some much needed xp and money to young crafters and provides inexpensive items to new players.
If you make it so that the items don't decay people can constantly work to keep the venders stocked by way of the quests...and there will always be plenty available.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I support the idea for simple and unteched items, at least for the first tiers.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I also support the idea of "Base" equipment being available in the early teirs to help out the new player.
The "learning curve" or "difficulty" to me is not really effected by this because the equipment wil be unteched and effectively the "worst" equipment you could get. It won't really be a motivator to me that keeps people from crafting stuff from themselves or asking for stuff from others becasue they'll need ot do that to get the "real" stuff - the teched/nicer/upgraded stuff.
Course I also like the idea of providing it for post-10 at NT too.
And I really like Joe's idea of the low level crafting quest requesting stuff crafters can make for coin and XP and then selling same items (even if its not persay the exact stuff the crafters sold, but just provided the equipment they are offering the quest for to make it LOOK like they are actually seling what crafters provide lol).
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joemarra052075
How about this? Vendors that give quests requesting certain amounts of gear (5 chainmail helms), give coin and xp for completing those quests, then turn around and sell what they have.
That's a fantastic idea - and adds a "lore" reason why the crafting quest people would have that sort of thing to sell.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
[quote >snip
Or worse, if the player would have to spend many days learning to make the items themselves by joining a school and leveling it.
<[/quote]
sorry but i thought that was the point of this game.
I would prefer to see all beginer forms put back on trainers for people to buy.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
joe's idea sounds like another cosigner. If no one is currently making that item, then the person wanting that item is SOL. No thanks.
I also disagree with having all the beginner formulas on the vendors.
I support the the OP where if you just need gear to get by, it is available for you without the need to grind "godnotanothercraftschool". I would like to see this for all levels truthfully.
This sounds very handy for characters of all tiers wanting to get that next set and would rather not depend on others because they are not quite high enough to make said item. For when wearing the last tier's set will get you dead way too quickly but you're too low to get the comps for your current set without the armor you're trying to get. Running in circles is no fun. A slight boost of help in the right direction can get a player the boost they need to grow properly.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I like this idea. I also like the idea of having the trainers give out crafting quests to make several of whatever items they're selling.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shian
joe's idea sounds like another cosigner. If no one is currently making that item, then the person wanting that item is SOL. No thanks.
I also disagree with having all the beginner formulas on the vendors.
I support the the OP where if you just need gear to get by, it is available for you without the need to grind "godnotanothercraftschool". I would like to see this for all levels truthfully.
This sounds very handy for characters of all tiers wanting to get that next set and would rather not depend on others because they are not quite high enough to make said item. For when wearing the last tier's set will get you dead way too quickly but you're too low to get the comps for your current set without the armor you're trying to get. Running in circles is no fun. A slight boost of help in the right direction can get a player the boost they need to grow properly.
While my idea is similar to a consigner it is different on several important points that should make it viable.
1. It gives people quests for large numbers of items (20 chainmail helms, 20 hide gloves ect ect ect). The fact that they are quests will give people more incentive to make the items.
2. By stocking up on those items with large quest orders it will prevent a shortage in stock.
3. It will actually add to the lore of the game and help keep the sandbox nature.
4. It takes the risk out for the seller - If a player know that when he makes 20 chainmail helms he will be paid for them, then he will be far more likely to make them.
5. It standardizes the prices for the basic items. Let's a player know what he needs to save to get them.
6. It makes a standard against which teched items can be priced on the connie.
The only disadvantage that I can see would be for the first few months while the stock was being established. The easiest way around that would be to give the vender a initial stock and if stock falls below a certain threshold the initial stock would reset.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I've seen requests for such stuffs by some new players on Order shard. They were less than happy that people weren't stocking consigners with basic, unteched gear. I made mention that it's often the wish of the person looking for such armors and stuff to want them teched to fit their own style. However, as an interim to seeking out a skilled crafter to make such stuff, this would at least get them in the right direction.
I vote yes.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joemarra052075
1. It gives people quests for large numbers of items (20 chainmail helms, 20 hide gloves ect ect ect). The fact that they are quests will give people more incentive to make the items.
Not really. People would make only what gets them the most xp.
Why make gloves when a chestplate gets you twice the xp? Why spend the time working at two resource stations when you can get the same amount of xp using one?
Would you take the quest with the least xp payout? I wouldn't. I'd take the highest and work on that until I've reached my next tier.
Speaking of tiers, there is a strong chance (I believe it is Murphy's law) that the tier you need, no one is working on.
Sorry, I'd rather have a guarantee that the equipment I need will be there. If I wanted to depend on other players for my gear, I will just ask those online, not use yet another type of cosigner that still depends on players to supply for you.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shian
Not really. People would make only what gets them the most xp.
Why make gloves when a chestplate gets you twice the xp? Why spend the time working at two resource stations when you can get the same amount of xp using one?
Would you take the quest with the least xp payout? I wouldn't. I'd take the highest and work on that until I've reached my next tier.
Speaking of tiers, there is a strong chance (I believe it is Murphy's law) that the tier you need, no one is working on.
Sorry, I'd rather have a guarantee that the equipment I need will be there. If I wanted to depend on other players for my gear, I will just ask those online, not use yet another type of cosigner that still depends on players to supply for you.
My earlier point is that we already have that. The imperial vendors sell refurbished gear both T1 and what I call T1.5 (level 10). The one in NT sells the T1 and the one in Kion sells the T1.5.
Now standard is slightly better than refurbished, but not by alot. And there are ways around the problems you listed.
The quests would be repeatable, but only when you have completed them all would it reset, therefore you would have to make alot of stuff for the quests to reset.
It could also be done so that it asks for 20 sets (20 sets of chainmail armor...chest, forarms x 2, shoulders x 2, legs, feet, arms, waist, face, and head).
It's not perfect no, but it sure will help.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Yes, but only for beginner level items.
That gives new people the chance to get the equipment but still requires meeting people/leveling for future work.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
There is a big difference between making the game too easy and making the game easy to play. Istaria is not easy and it's also not easy to play. The easy to play part is what needs to be fixed to retain new players.
It has been suggested before in another thread that the best way to get folks the things they need is to teach them how to craft. Example: Blacksmith trainer gives you a quest to make "x" number of bronze bars.
Blacksmith trainer then gives you a formula to make "x" number of bronze mining picks.
Blacksmith trainer gives you a quest to make "x" number of sandstone bricks.
Blacksmith trainer then gives you a quest to make "x" number of sandstone essence siphons.
Rinse, repeat till you have all the tool forms you want.
These quests can be added to every beginner crafting trainer for all formulas and techs. This way new players are taught how to craft, given what they need to craft, and don't spend days running around in circles trying to understand crafting. Seeing that you have to do "a" to make "b" but you also have to do "b" to make "a" is what causes frustration and loss of new players.
I think that new players should receive something from their first adventure school trainer that gives them access to a full set of refurbished armour and weapons. Their first crafting trainer should also furnish them with a refurbished level 5 cargo disk along with the tools and basic resource forms they currently get. And an explanation of how to get the quests as I listed above.
The thrill (or "hook" of Istaria) is learning to do things for yourself.
Give a man a fish and he has a meal. Teach a man to fish and he eats for life.
Thaalia of Order
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
awdz
I like the idea of refurbished gear being available for tiers II - IV as well as tier I. By the time they get to the higher tiers, they will most likely be looking for crafters who can make properly tech'd gear anyway. I do not see how it hurts to have something minimal available to the desperate. It's not like crafters are falling over each other looking for business at the middle tiers.
I like this idea, mostly.
I have reservations that by doing such we will be programming the new
players into believing that the Imperium will provide them with everything.
With this early training and experience of "the Empire will provide all" they
will get frustrated when they hit "the end" of those provisions. At the risk
of sounding negative, I honestly feel like you are attempting to "cure
stupid".
To me, it would best serve if players were trained from the beginning
how to get the best gear. Think raising a Child, it is the early formative
years (levels) that will create the foundation. Teach them yes, just don't coddle them and give them what they are whining for.
Vendors should steer the new players to look for Crafters for their
specific needs.
*Yoda voice* Mighty Dragon Crafter? Icabald, You seek Icabald, Yes!
I'd really really really like to see a system where the Crafters can have
their name(s) and possibly an Item Displayed as advertisement.
An Imperial Vendor can show players a list of Available (Online) crafters
for a specific set of gear. (Modified Player search - Crafting - Trade - Tier/Lvl of skill = List)
Para-Quote Sephi here -- My words are the wind.....
Andaras
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Holth
There is a big difference between making the game too easy and making the game easy to play. Istaria is not easy and it's also not easy to play. The easy to play part is what needs to be fixed to retain new players.
I think just about everyone agrees here.
Quote:
It has been suggested before in another thread that the best way to get folks the things they need is to teach them how to craft. Example: Blacksmith trainer gives you a quest to make "x" number of bronze bars.
Blacksmith trainer then gives you a formula to make "x" number of bronze mining picks.
Blacksmith trainer gives you a quest to make "x" number of sandstone bricks.
Blacksmith trainer then gives you a quest to make "x" number of sandstone essence siphons.
Rinse, repeat till you have all the tool forms you want.
What if someone doesn't want to craft? Are we going to force everyone to craft, and make their own stuff, when every other MMORPG on the market encourages a player-driven market?
Now honestly, with the way consignment systems work, and the lack of gear obtained from quests, trying to force a player-driven market isn't working in Istaria.
That's why this suggestion is about as good as we're gonna get to allowing people access to unteched gear. If they want tech'd stuff, then yes, they gotta go tot he market or make it themselves. And trust me, trying to fight things with unteched gear at T3+ sucks. But it is better than being absolutely stuck because you're using T2 tech'd armor at Lv41+ and are having serious trouble killing mobs with that old outdated equipment.
Quote:
These quests can be added to every beginner crafting trainer for all formulas and techs. This way new players are taught how to craft, given what they need to craft, and don't spend days running around in circles trying to understand crafting. Seeing that you have to do "a" to make "b" but you also have to do "b" to make "a" is what causes frustration and loss of new players.
Again, not everyone wants to craft. Crafting is monotonous, and quite boring to some players. Other players love it. Myself? I'm on the fence. I can do it, but not a lot of it at once. Trying to get up to where you can make your own platemail takes at least ten times longer than leveling an adventurer school capable of equipping that plate armor to 11. Let's not forget that once you get to Tier 3, leveling Armorer gets a whole lot worse, due to the fact you're forced to work on Alloy metals. So I don't think it'd be all that "off" to say 20x the time to level through one tier to make the armor for your next 10 levels of adventurer.
Quote:
I think that new players should receive something from their first adventure school trainer that gives them access to a full set of refurbished armour and weapons. Their first crafting trainer should also furnish them with a refurbished level 5 cargo disk along with the tools and basic resource forms they currently get. And an explanation of how to get the quests as I listed above.
The problem with Refurb armor, though, is that you might as well be naked, there's not much difference. I say, normal un-tech'd armor is the way to go.
Heck, if you ask me, instead of making vendor armor, give bipeds quests every 10 levels for every school that allows you to quest 1 piece of basic armor. do a quest, get a weapon pertinent to that school. Do another quest, get a body armor for that school/level. Do yet another quest, get another piece of armor, maybe legs. Make it similar to the dragon quests.
Quote:
The thrill (or "hook" of Istaria) is learning to do things for yourself.
Unless you're being forced to do something you don't really have any interest in doing. Then it is the most giant turn-off possible.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Was thinking about this and couldn't make up my mind if it would cause problems further down the road (IE when they hit T2).
My way of thinking is to cheat a little bit. Yes allow unteched items to be sold, but instead of putting them on the individual trainers, put them on the New Trismus consigner instead.
Why?
- The New Trismus consigner is one of the 1st places a new player hits once they enter New Trismus
- It's a focal point on New Trismus
- Gives the impression of greater availability of trade (this is the cheeky bit)
- The trainers are spreadout across New Trismus and Lesser Aradoth, a new player would not be able to reach the likes of Sslanis without running the gauntlet of the mobs to get there
- With formulas and already made versions of the items on a trainer, which of the 2 is a new player most likely to buy?
The other option I like is the one where the beginner training quests give you the correct gear to use. For example Dragon quests in New Trismus already do that and give a player scales and a claw to use (and teach making them).
Also agree that the level 5 Standard Sandstone Cargo Disc should be available to buy, or given by a quest.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
It's a catch-22 now with the crafting verses the gear you need to play.
To be Truthfull I think Tier 1-5 Unteched Armor/Weapons/Spells and Tools should be sold by npc's.
Lets be truthfull this is not going to harm crafters income much. As this will promote more players to stay with Istaria longer. And thoughs players will then not get fustrated when looking for a crafter to make stuff for them. Now they can get the very basic and later when they find someone they can get what the realy want.
I also think a new NPC is realy realy realy needed. A Orders NPC were a player can place a open order to be filled for coin. i.e. I place a Order up for a Tier 3 E-bolt with Tech-3 Stun/damg inc. and Range.
I would just use the crafting interface to let buyers pre-build the iteams as they wished built. Then put the iteam up on the Order's NPC for crafters to come buy and see what wishs they can full fill today. The coin go's to the craft the iteam drops into the buys vaults.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I thought the whole point to having blighted armour and weapons/shields drop off of mobs was so that if someone chooses not to craft they don't have to. There is already a system in game for pure adventurers to get a full set of armour and weapons by hunting for them. And blighted gear is already teched. Some of it with better techs than crafters can make.
My concern with putting pre-made armour and such on trainers is this .. what will stop someone from buying a basic scalemail helmet from a trainer and dropping a socket tech on it? Now that helmet becomes exactly the same as the best player crafted helmet. Ditto for weapons and shields. Instead of selling basic armour/weapons on trainers would it not be much easier to spread out the loot drops of blighted gear on lower tier mobs so anyone that chooses to not craft or hire a crafter can loot what they need.
Thaalia of Order
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Holth
I thought the whole point to having blighted armour and weapons/shields drop off of mobs was so that if someone chooses not to craft they don't have to. There is already a system in game for pure adventurers to get a full set of armour and weapons by hunting for them. And blighted gear is already teched. Some of it with better techs than crafters can make.
Blighted armor?
Are you serious?
I didn't hear you say that, did I?
One, it can take hours and days and months to get a full suit of any particular type of armor to drop from WA mobs..... oh, did I mention you have to fight WA mobs for this Blighted Armor? The same WA mobs who slaughter you unless you're at the top of your game past NT (if you were, you'd have tech'd, crafted gear). And even then, if a Blighted Armor DOES drop, it might have something stupid like +stat you don't care about, -stat you DO care about.
Quote:
My concern with putting pre-made armour and such on trainers is this .. what will stop someone from buying a basic scalemail helmet from a trainer and dropping a socket tech on it? Now that helmet becomes exactly the same as the best player crafted helmet. Ditto for weapons and shields. Instead of selling basic armour/weapons on trainers would it not be much easier to spread out the loot drops of blighted gear on lower tier mobs so anyone that chooses to not craft or hire a crafter can loot what they need.
Since when are there Socket Tech Kits? Did they add those? Last I checked, to put a socket on a piece of armor, you had to place the socket on it during the item's creation. There are some tech kits out there, but mostly for dragon techs unless they changed it.
I think my idea of putting in quests for Bipeds is the best one: Let Bipeds do quests every 10 levels for a suit of armor and a weapon pertinent to their school.
It makes Biped School leveling a lot less boring and monotonous, gives Bipeds a little extra XP and coin from these quests, plus a piece of basic armor.
Win Win Win for everyone.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
( Yesterday on Order-shard:
2 new players, x and y in
market and in 2 diff open guild chats, at different times
(but within the about 5h I was on):
X: " Hi I`m a new player, can someone make me (beginner armor)
(no answer, cause only a hand full of players on)
some time later same question
Lov: "Sry, I`m drag- can`t do"
X: "why?"
I made a tell
X:"Why?"
Lov: "I send you a tell"
X"where?"
tried to explain
X: "how do I install all that chats?"
Lov" sry I`m not a native speaker, can`t explain"
Lov (in 2 chats)"can someone pls help me here?
Someone kindly helped.
This went on for a while-next time I looked X was gone.
Y: " hi, I`m a new player, the trainer says I need that tool, can some pls make that for me?"
player A: "which tool?"
Y:"dunno"
Players B: which school?"
Y:" not sure"
meanwhile other players tried to help.
You all can imagine the following conversation.
Then silence for a while.
player C:"Y, are you still here?"
Y:" yes"
Player C: "Did you get your tool?"
Y: "No- can you make it?"
Player C:"what do you need?...................random
At a certain point, all involved were frustrated and exhausted.
They/we talked about thats impossible to help.
Some did not answer to Y anymore (which I can understand)
Y left the game (and the group he/she was invited to)with the famous last words: "bye all, sry for bothering"
An exception? All too blonde to play Istaria?
Sry for that long post- np for me if its deleted cause its derailing.
But did not want toplace it on rant forum, cause it fits here in my eyes. )
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I agree, Lovyrm, this is rather frustrating. How could players help Y if this one don't even tell them how they could help him and what he needs?
There'll always be people like that who'll come, then leave quickly... like some, sometimes who just spam the channels asking for dads, dads and not caring about anything else... then, one or two days later, they disappear to never come back.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
you got me wrong Lung.
I felt pitty for the new players!
And for us, who sometimes get tired to help the 1000. new player
cause Istaria is so hard to play as a beginner.
Even more difficult for those , who`s choosen Istaria to be their first mmorpg.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Re: Joe's idea and that being "like the Connie"
Hence my suggestion was more angled to the idea that the NPC selling the items and giving the quest for the items - not really be selling the Player crafted items.
I was trying to explain how the NPC would give out the craft for 6 Helmets, and the person who made the helmest would turn them in, get coin and XP like a normal quest.
This NPC would also sell the same Helmet it was asking the person to craft - but the items he would be selling *are not from the player, they are always for sale not dependent on someone crafting them* So you get around the connie issue because this NPC is "always going to have 5 Blahblah Helmet to sell" regardless of wether anyone has done the quest lately.
But he still provides the quest to make such things to help beginning crafters in XP and Coin and learning. AND lorewise/immersion he can make comments about "needing them to put up for sale" so that way it gives the ILLUSION that the crafter is supplyign the NPC (gives that rp/lore reason and makes it all nice and pretty together). But would never leave anyone out in the cold if someone hadn't done the quest in 3 months.
Because the NPC would still always have 5 helmets for sale.
Make sense? This way it looks nice and rounded and immersive, still gives craft coin/xp, and still supplies basic items needed (For someoen who wasn't crafting that at the time or whatever).
I like this idea way way better than just plopping an random NPC in the middle of town who has dozens of Basic tier I items for sale.
More quests and more coin to gain are always a win win win win!
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I'd say no as it would ruin the need for crafters. Especially since more and more techkits are getting ingame
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Refurbished Mark II
Yes.
Considering the IMMENSE improvement that proper teching can make and the joy of a customized set of weapons, armor, and spells I think this would easily leave a market open for crafters. In fact I think that it could actually give the Crafters a good base price to go off of.
Example: "Well that steel longsword you bought from the merchant costs two silver. This one is customized to you, colored, and teched so it will cost you five silver."
I sell my old creations all the time and they are ALWAYS bought by someone without question or exception and I do not think that would change with this alteration. It could also help give people a full appreciation of the upgraded versions of the standard issue. In this way it would allow crafters to actually seem more skilled than your average smith or outfitter etc. It shows that most people can only make very bland items but the Crafter is a master who can create very specially designed items.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
No to vendor equipment at any tier. Please remove this reliance upon NPCs to provide our equipment apart from the capped Training gear handed out when you join a school.
Blighted Equipment.
I like this, which is already in game. All that needs to be done is increase the drop rate and perhaps the variety of items.
I believe there was already moves to reduce the amount of negative stats and techs as well, if not, it should be done.
If you don't loot the bit you need, get it deconstructed and remade by player crafters.
So if you can't find a player to craft exactly what you want (my preferred option), then loot that is useful, usable or sell-able (connie or PB) is the answer, not an NPC vending machine.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Today I ran some hard numbers for gear. I was very surprised to find that the refurbished gear sold in New Trismus on the refurbished vendor is not all that much worse than basic player crafted gear.
A full set of refurb bronze plate gives a player +156 armour value. Basic non-teched player made bronze plate +194
A full set of refurb bronze scale gives a player + 84 armour value. Basic non-teched player made bronze scale +96
So +38 for plate and +12 for scale. Not anywhere near as bad as I thought refurbished gear was.
For weapons a refurb bronze battle axe does 10-12 dam and a non-teched player made one does 11-15.
A refurb bronze dagger does 2-2 dam and a non-teched player made one does 2-3 .
1-3 point damage spread difference for the axe and 1 top end damage difference for the dagger.
Across all armour types and weapons, both level 1 and level 11, the difference between refurbished gear and basic player made gear is, in my opinion, quite minimal.
Thaalia of Order
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
What if we made this vendor equipment (still say we should make these quested every 10 levels like dragon quests), we could put "junk techs" on them to prevent Tech Kits from being used on it, unless it is possible to put a "No Tech Kit" flag on an item?
Just pick something that nobody would want on that particular item and put Tier 1 techs on it. Actually, you could do something stupid like put Dragon Techs on the biped armors to make the techs themselves useless, and to prevent tech kits from being used on the vendor gear.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Yes
Message is too short, so Yes again
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LOVWYRM
you got me wrong Lung.
Ah, sorry for my mistake :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LOVWYRM
I felt pitty for the new players!
And for us, who sometimes get tired to help the 1000. new player
cause Istaria is so hard to play as a beginner.
Yes, it can be hard, that is why we should do our best to help the new players... but don't feel bad, I know you are doing as much as you can to help *winghugs
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LOVWYRM
Even more difficult for those , who`s choosen Istaria to be their first mmorpg.
Indeed... I needed time to adapt to Istaria as a MMORPG... the channel, tabs, windows looked hard for me at the beginning, as well as things about formulas, crafting, ... but I met, already on New Trismus, elder players to help me and show me important things. Good memories : )
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
A. Yes, but only for tier 1 and 2.
Tier 1 basically already has this as refurb equipment right? Would this idea replace the refub vendor? For Tier 1 it should probably stay on the refurb vendor (at least for armor), just make sure that refurb gear has the same armor amounts as crafted (or maybe 1 armor less), as well as some basic techs applied at half the crafted tech amount. Example: Refubished Bronze Chainmail Chestguard, with something like +3 health. Not quite the full amount of crafted but better than nothing. Also, all would be the same in that all available chestpieces would only come with a small health tech (an amount thats less that Statistic: Health I). For tier 2, Refubished Iron Chainmail Chestguard, +6 Health could be sold by an Armorsmith trainer (would make sense to look there), but only use the trainer if theres one in Kion or Sslanis. Greaves could have, say + Strength, Mask + Focus, Helm, + Power, etc. Spread it around. There would still be a desire for crafted to be able to choose Adventure techs, slightly better values, etc.
For crafting tools, a similiar idea outlined above could be implemented, only sold on trainers requiring the tool.
I think this should only go to Tier 2 tho, items that take only a single tech. Crafted will be a better option, but not by a game breaking amount at the first 2 tiers. Plenty of time to get a player hooked, let them learn how the crafting works, and supply gear during a period when they may not know anyone in game. But Tier 3, double techs, should be player crafted only. By this time the player should know others to ask questions, have been pointed to New Player Assistance and Marketplace chats more than once by tutorials, etc.
However I will echo some caution others have mentioned, making the game too easy would be a danger with this. Thats why for certain it must not apply beyond tier 2.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
i would certainly support having the trainers trade appropriate level 'training' or 'refurbished' type items. basic food, weapons, armour - perhaps even pots?
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
However I will echo some caution others have mentioned, making the game too easy would be a danger with this. Thats why for certain it must not apply beyond tier 2.
You ever tried killing Tier 3 mobs with untech'd Tier 3 armor?
It is hardly "easy".
But whatever. At least T1 and T2 would be a help.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I'd say "yes" to all tiers, and I'd add spells in there.
Basically, the current system has two settings:
- you find someone Knowledged to the TEETH (possibly yourself) and they make you a full set of Murderation 9001.
- you don't find someone and you're stuck in rags beggars wouldn't be caught dead in. Also, you probably die horribly all the time.
Now, I don't want to hurt the call for crafters. Sweet baby Drulkar, I don't want to hurt it. I am one of those crafters, and the last time someone hired me to make a set of teched spells for them I was over the moon with joy. But I've also had to start from nothing, and let me just remind those who may have forgotten that once you make it to New Trismus or Kion or whatever and all you have to your name is a rinky-dink shield, a stick, and a Training Firebolt, it sucks. Now, if you are fortunate or well-connected you can spend a day (or two or five) organizing tech comps and finding crafters and getting yourself fitted out in your very own Murderation 9001. That's time spent probably standing around in town, and talking to lots of people, and just generally NOT adventuring, but whatever, at least when it's done you can go kill things without a massive handicap.
But if you don't know people, or they're not online, or you don't have someone showering you with the harder-to-get bits? You can try to do every last bit of it yourself: craft up, try to get every tech/form you'll need (HAAAAhahahaha), or else go face the ravening hordes in the equivalent of your undies. If all you wanted to do was go teach some gruok not to be such pigfaces, this is almost certainly less fun than the other choice. (Undead? Oh please, they look at you funny and you flop over dead.)
So I think "refurbished" armor, weapons, and spells would be a nice stopgap. Not as good as teched. No way as good as teched, and you'll still want to get your hands on your very own tailor-made Murderation 9001.* But in the meantime, you'll at least be able to go out and DO something besides sit on your hands and/or die constantly.
Spells too because being a caster is hard enough when they give you NAUFFINK. Techs are invaluable there, even at low levels, so again: easy-to-get unteched would be a wonderful stopgap until you can find someone to make you the good stuff. None of this "training" crud.
*I am making the faith-based assumption here that the devs can figure out how to make unteched, quickie stuff less attractive than a fully-teched kit.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Spells too because being a caster is hard enough when they give you NAUFFINK. Techs are invaluable there, even at low levels, so again: easy-to-get unteched would be a wonderful stopgap until you can find someone to make you the good stuff. None of this "training" crud.
There is a spell vendor in NT already, that dragon standing right between the crafting building and the building up on the hill, he's blue IIRC.
He sells spells.
But he also wants 1, 2, 3 silver per if I recall, and nobody in NT has entire silvers to dump on his spells, so maybe a reduction in how much he wants for his spells would be a good thing.
Otherwise, I'm in total agreement with what you just posted. A basic, untech'd suit of armor is nowhere near as good as a tech'd one once you get to T3 and on. An untech'd suit of armor is barely better than going naked, and that's if you're wearing metal armor. Wearing leather, you might as well BE naked. Wearing T3 untech'd cloth? Why bother?
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dhalin
A basic, untech'd suit of armor is nowhere near as good as a tech'd one once you get to T3 and on. An untech'd suit of armor is barely better than going naked, and that's if you're wearing metal armor. Wearing leather, you might as well BE naked. Wearing T3 untech'd cloth? Why bother?
That got me to thinking, if a new player has been buying the untech'd stuff all along, they may not realize there is better to be had. A clear statement from the vendor for the untech'd gear at tiers III and up like,"Wow! I rarely get orders for these since the Gifted have been creating deluxe gear. Thank you for your purchase!" might help point them to getting properly outfitted.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
awdz
That got me to thinking, if a new player has been buying the untech'd stuff all along, they may not realize there is better to be had. A clear statement from the vendor for the untech'd gear at tiers III and up like,"Wow! I rarely get orders for these since the Gifted have been creating deluxe gear. Thank you for your purchase!" might help point them to getting properly outfitted.
Good idea, the NPC should, in some way, mention or suggest seeking tech'd gear or some-such. That is a nice, and valid point.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I vote no. I havent ever heard one person say they are leaving because they couldnt find a set of armor. Other things to worry about more important than this.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Teto Frum
I vote no. I havent ever heard one person say they are leaving because they couldnt find a set of armor. Other things to worry about more important than this.
I have. Several times in chat in fact.
Person was on a trial account, asked for armor throughout the course of hours. Did so the next morning with no reply. Got too frustrated because they couldn't play the game and had been trying to do so for two days. It takes just the right amount of people to be on or not be on to get the right armor.
Then you get scenes from Thickle's well written post where they can't get the materials for the armor nor can they fight at all really.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
yes Shian- my saying.
It happens too often!
yes Thickle- great description!
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
I'm trying to imagine how a new player would find out a new armor.
Over New Trismus, as a new player, I would not have a look at the trainer first.
I guess I would look near the consigner and pawnbroker.
Setting up a third NPC of the Empire,over those kind of place could help I think.
I'll agree on the fact that it should be un-teched items.
To me, this NPC should provide any kind of un-teched items.
Our UI has some nice filters !
The "Requirement met" filter would do the rest of the job :)
A last thing that I would suggest:
If the current adventure school is >= lvl 20
Prompt a "ask somebody else" window.
This way, players would have work :p
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dhalin
You ever tried killing Tier 3 mobs with untech'd Tier 3 armor?
It is hardly "easy".
But whatever. At least T1 and T2 would be a help.
The point is that by tier 3, they will know enough to know how to ask for a crafter, or to craft it themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
awdz
That got me to thinking, if a new player has been buying the untech'd stuff all along, they may not realize there is better to be had. A clear statement from the vendor for the untech'd gear at tiers III and up like,"Wow! I rarely get orders for these since the Gifted have been creating deluxe gear. Thank you for your purchase!" might help point them to getting properly outfitted.
Excellent point.
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Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment
Personly I think this problems can probly be solved by adding a new NPC.
Lets call this NPC the Orders NPC were Adv. A can place a order for a piece of gear with or with out any Techs on it and then Crafter B can come along with out Adv. A even being online and see what people need and build it.
When Crafter B fills the order the coin go's into Crafter B's wallet and Adv. A gets the iteam delivered to his/her vault.
That solves the problem of Crafters not crafing teched iteams and placing them for days never knowing if someone will buy.
Also solves Adv. problems on not wishing to play crafty crafty game but still being able to get the gear they need with out spending 10+houres a day trying to find someone to make there gear as well.
Then we would gain more players that dont like to craft but like to adv. I feel this is good for the crafter player and good for the Adv player. And just down right good for Istaria.