Talk to the Team: Ambrosia

Been a while since we posted one of these, so figured I'd take a moment to throw it out there. One thing we've discussed and has been brought up numerous times over the years is re-introducing a way to create and a reason to use Ambrosia.

So, here are some ideas. As always we welcome your feedback:

1) Ambrosia I through VII would remain obsolete. A new epic Ambrosia would be introduced.

2) "Epic" Ambrosia would be craftable using a system similar to the Epic item system including tokens and an essence, but perhaps could be created using "essence" from any Epic monster.

3) Usable once every 24 hours, but would remove your death penalty. So, very useful if you have acquired a number of death points.

Thoughts, feedback, comments?

Clarifications please:
This would remove one full dp in addition to the full penalty, rather than just the next closest to done?
Time to consume?
Can be eaten on battlefield?
Do not have to be sitting?

If each epic ambrosia follows the pattern of 3 components and an essence, I'm probably never going to make or use any of it if I do happen to acquire any... 330 tokens for a full death point/penalty removal is not appealing in the slightest. You could potentially rack up a whole new batch of death points just grinding out those 330 tokens.

However, if the epic token cost per consumable there is significantly reduced then I would absolutely see about making some up! The pricing on the epic travel scroll boxes is absolutely perfect for an epic consumable like that, so I'd personally prefer that the epic ambrosia wouldn't exceed that token cost/consumable ratio by too much.

If the cost is too low for Epic Ambrosia it will make the confectioner food obsolete, but it shouldn't be as high like a epic item either.

Not making confectioner food obsolete was why there was no actual mention of the removal of death points.

If it was too low, nobody would use it. if it were very high (removing a massive amount of them) then players might simply collect them, pop a single ambrosia, and move on.... rendering confectioner food obsolete. Which would be contrary to the goal.

Instead, I was thinking along the lines of curing the death penalty itself. Then even if you had 20 death points, you wouldn't be impacted by them until you got more.

Certainly open to other suggestions about use, beyond simple death point removal.

For example, what if the potion were there to be administered to others. They die, you use the potion on them, it resurrects them with full health. Or, what if you were to consume it and then on your next death the "gods" would resurrect you to full health.

Epic Ambrosia:
If that's possible,it could work only against Epic monsters.
All values are subject to discussion.

Initial effect would be to remove enough minutes to remove ~10 death points and current death penalty.
Second effect would be Gods Revenge:
Attacks Spells Ranged do 110% against epic monsters only.
Incomming from epic monsters do 90%
All primary adv skills could go up by 5% (dragon and ped alike)
Small healing tick every few seconds.
Duration of whole-1h so you can take revenge on at leats 2 epic monsters.

I hope this doesn't look like too much but I was never fan of consumable epics items and to make Ambrosia worthy making it would really have to be something.

The godly resurrection sounds like a good idea too.

I like the godly resurrection but think it should only work if you are near an Epic, or at least you have to have an epic aura on you to use it.

If you just stick with simple death penalty removal, I think that'd still be quite desirable... but the cost should be fairly low to make a batch. Perhaps it'll require ingredient(s?) bought from the epic vendor that total about 10 tokens worth and you make 2 or 3 per batch.

Just a suggestion... still wouldn't complain about there being a better version that does more though! Greater and lesser ambrosia?

I think adding some new Ambrosia would probably just end up hurting confectioners. The new food is actually pretty decent in DP removal, when eaten in a tavern.

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Originally Posted by Tilithia

Epic Ambrosia:
If that's possible,it could work only against Epic monsters.
All values are subject to discussion.

Initial effect would be to remove enough minutes to remove ~10 death points and current death penalty.
Second effect would be Gods Revenge:
Attacks Spells Ranged do 110% against epic monsters only.
Incomming from epic monsters do 90%
All primary adv skills could go up by 5% (dragon and ped alike)
Small healing tick every few seconds.
Duration of whole-1h so you can take revenge on at leats 2 epic monsters.

I hope this doesn't look like too much but I was never fan of consumable epics items and to make Ambrosia worthy making it would really have to be something.

The godly resurrection sounds like a good idea too.

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If it was powerful enough to remove 10 dp's, then it might as well cost as much as an epic weapon in Epic token costs. This would relegate it to rare use, but that wouldn't be a bad thing since it wouldn't be an affordable competitor to Confectioners. But I am not a fan of it costing any Epic tokens...

As far as my own idea's to what AMB might do, nothing really comes to mind. I'd be perfectly happy if Essence of Blight dropped again, perhaps as a rare possible bonus loot from epic bosses. It takes 7 eob to make 9 ambrosia VII. So if it only had a rare chance to drop per kill (say just a few%), there isn't going to be a huge amount created. And if some new effects were added, that's fine. Could either just put the old form back in, or make a new version. But that general idea could still be used: some component that takes multiples to be able to craft amb, is just an item that is a possible drop from epic kills. Don't use Epic tokens. Better yet just put the EoB back in as the possible, additional loot. These Eob could work in the old amb formula, but a newer formula would be made for sale from Vargas. It would take the proportionate amount of eobs' for dp time removed, but be a little better in that aspect than the old amb (to make using the newer formula the preferred), along with whatever new effect that people come up with here.

*** tldr:

So add eob as possible loot to epic bosses or epic crates. It should remain kinda rare, and not be purchasable with epic tokens.

Put a new formula on vargas for making the newer version of amb, that is better at dp time removed than the old ambrosia, and also has some additional benefits. Old eob effectiveness is 7 eob for 72 hours of dp time removed, new amb formula could be 7 eob for 84 hours of dp removed, plus some extra benefit.

Some other ideas: The new amb would have full effectiveness when eaten in the field (not be affected by tavern bonus). I didn't factor in any tavern bonus in the 7 eob for 72 hour of time removed when using the old ambrosia (216 hours in t6 tavern for 9 of the old amb 7s, which cost 7 eob to craft). So, if the new amb cost 7 eobs to make, created 3 amb per batch, removed 84 hours even when eaten in the field (252 total hours for 7 eob), did not receive benefit from being eaten in taverns, and had some additional benefit/effect, I think it could be pretty cool.

To protect confectioners market, simply keep it a rare drop. Maybe a 2% chance to get a single eob. Adjusting this rate is all that would need to be done to keep it rare. Since it doesn't cost epic tokens, the rarity is better controlled.

Edit: corrected the maths :)
1 eob makes 3 spirit oils. 7 spirit oils makes 3 amb 7's
7 eob makes 21 spirit oils. 21 spirit oils makes 9 amb 7's
-> 7 eob's makes 9 amb 7's

Seeing as there is no way possible we are ever getting the old ambrosia formulae back and the methods to make it, I'll support another method to make ambrosia. I think just a general DP removal would be great. Can't see how reintroducing ambrosia is going to hurt confectioners at all as the old stuff never did, and the new ambrosia would be using epic cores and resources.

If its an epic formula and the ingredients are hard to obtain then the new ambrosia should be allowed to do some pretty great thing. Depending on how hard it is, I'm all for it doing a resurrection of sorts on the field. Thinking about it, what if you made it so you ate it and it allowed you to self-resurrect once. Could be a lesser version of resurrection so you still have the DP time to deal with, and I would say you could put a limit on usage of one ambrosia every 24 hours so that this perk of ambrosia doesn't or isn't able to be over-used or abused.

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Originally Posted by AmonGwareth

Not making confectioner food obsolete was why there was no actual mention of the removal of death points.

If it was too low, nobody would use it. if it were very high (removing a massive amount of them) then players might simply collect them, pop a single ambrosia, and move on.... rendering confectioner food obsolete. Which would be contrary to the goal.

Instead, I was thinking along the lines of curing the death penalty itself. Then even if you had 20 death points, you wouldn't be impacted by them until you got more.

Certainly open to other suggestions about use, beyond simple death point removal.

For example, what if the potion were there to be administered to others. They die, you use the potion on them, it resurrects them with full health. Or, what if you were to consume it and then on your next death the "gods" would resurrect you to full health.

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A 1/day use is very limiting. If it only cures 1 dp in addition to the penalty, it certainly would not replace food.

I do love the idea of a resurrection item. I would prefer it be usable by self when dead, unlike nearly anything else. That would make epic cost worthwhile for a consumable.

Removing current death penalty is <3 (thus, imo, any ressurection or such that did come with would have to not have a death penalty attached or remove A LOT of death points.)

Actually - ON ressurection..don't we have an item that does that already? Myloc's blood potion?
I think resurrect effect would be...kinda not great as we could instead have variety in our epic items!
(if i'm wrong, ofc, then ressurection would be great!)

Unless...it was an AoE ressurect. Y'know when you pull Valkor sometimes, and you timed it just wrong and as soon as you dispel his multicast he re uses it, and your group wipes? Maybe you forgot to evade scorch? Maybe Reklar beat your group down to just 2 people....So someone uses ambrosia (see: needs activating by right click > use / hotkey, usable when dead OR alive) and bam, everyone in a range of what, 20? 40? is ressurected.


If it's going to use essence and tokens then i'd really appreciate it using 7 tokens at the most - i'm NOT going to buy some ambrosia if i can't make any progress on collecting epic items that day because the token cost is high. (and anyone who wants to collect anything epic isn't going to waste all their tokens because lol suck it confectioner food, so i think that's high enough that it won't impact that...nevermind usable 1/day)

And with essences...meergh. I kinda feel it's going to need to be impressive to justify using an essence, esepcially if they want to be used anything more than a one off (high rarity on consumables tends to lead to people not ever using them because they're waiting for the perfect situation, so ambrosia is gonna need to be something we can get multiples of without sacrificing too much)


But if low cost is not wanted, understandable, it's gonna need to be impressive. If i need a couple days worth of epics to get one, then it better be good. Depending on how extreme "high cost" is taken to be, i think i'd still buy one even if it took a few days if it was good enough... (AoE ressurect is worthy of high cost, imo.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tilithia

Initial effect would be to remove enough minutes to remove ~10 death points and current death penalty.
Second effect would be Gods Revenge:
Attacks Spells Ranged do 110% against epic monsters only.
Incomming from epic monsters do 90%
All primary adv skills could go up by 5% (dragon and ped alike)
Small healing tick every few seconds.
Duration of whole-1h so you can take revenge on at leats 2 epic monsters.

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Also sounds like a pretty good buff it could provide, so long as not dispelable. 8D


On another note...."craftable"...i mean, i know they're epic and all, but i think either it should be done by intuition/ingenuity skill, or be directly trade-able (exhange x for y on a vendor without the use of crafting/formulas) IF a low cost is put to them.
IF a high cost is put to them then i don't have any disputes with requirement to craft them.

Reasoning behind that is personally, it's tough to catch someone able to craft biped-required epic items on order most times. If they're cheap, and something one could buy once per day assuming they epic hunted, i don't really like the idea of half the group going "quick, healer, make me some ambrosia!" and slowing down time between hunts...and probably burdening the few peds in the group/game even more. we already demand 'em for allies and general consumables lolol. If they're cheap i kinda want to be able to make them myself with a dragon, and not constantly ask for someone else to make it.

But if they're not cheap, then sure, i'll only bother the biped from time to time instead of every day and i'm totally fine with that.

(Or alternatively....

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Originally Posted by Machaeon

Greater and lesser ambrosia?

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8D
Could be used to have both a greater, high cost, fantastic use ambrosia AND a low cost, but not as good effect ambrosia.)

I like azath's idea that it does an area superior Rez... usable once a day. (So that it doesn't overwrite healers) especially if it also removed all dp penalty I like where this is going. Although without meaning to crimp anyone's ideas I'd prefer the devs focus on the tier 3revamp.

I would still like to see EOB reintroduced.. since it really does not affect confectioners at all. But since I have the form, I'd like to be able to use it.. even if it's a "just because I can" scenario. I just get tired of seeing devs introduce something, then take it away. most other formulas that can no longer be obtained in the game still have resources available to them for creating those items.. at least give us back the ability to make the I - VII again. I still currently have 200 ambrosia in my vault. You want to make a new version (fine) but let us still be able to craft old one for posterity.

I don't care for what you did to all the epic weapons and so on.. after Myself and a group of us worked so hard to get those forms, then to have them ripped away.. and now anyone can just buy them for tokens. ???? not sure why you decided to mess with a lot of things in the game, but seems we really have no say.. one day it's there.. next.. (POOF) just like that, you decide to remove it from the game, and change everything around.

Whose Idea was it to remove the old ambrosia ingredients? and why?

We did the quests, paid our dues.. we should have a right to use the forms we worked for. not like very many people want much to do with ambrosia's anyway. so whats the harm?

Why keep Ambrosia I-VII obsolete? Just give it a 24 hour refresh and make the components rare drops. Make one of the drops come from named mobs and/or epic mobs. Make the form pricey. I like the 24 hour refresh, you get an easy removal on the first DP and then have to work a bit for the rest.

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Originally Posted by Malicore

I don't care for what you did to all the epic weapons and so on.. after Myself and a group of us worked so hard to get those forms, then to have them ripped away.. and now anyone can just buy them for tokens. ???? not sure why you decided to mess with a lot of things in the game, but seems we really have no say.. one day it's there.. next.. (POOF) just like that, you decide to remove it from the game, and change everything around.

Whose Idea was it to remove the old ambrosia ingredients? and why?

We did the quests, paid our dues.. we should have a right to use the forms we worked for. not like very many people want much to do with ambrosia's anyway. so whats the harm?

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The reason old ambrosia was made obsolete was because it made all other confectioner food near useless, this is also the reason why it won't be available alongside the new iteration of ambrosia, however it might turn out.

Also, I'm not sure how you mean that players can buy epic weapons with tokens? you still have to craft them, you just need to get tokens now rather than getting specific parts+the formula on a random drop (I personally never liked the "Blood Sword part 1 of 5" dropping over and over for me). If you mean paying another player with the tokens required to craft it that's no different than the old system of trading parts for other parts.

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Originally Posted by AmonGwareth

Been a while since we posted one of these, so figured I'd take a moment to throw it out there. One thing we've discussed and has been brought up numerous times over the years is re-introducing a way to create and a reason to use Ambrosia.

So, here are some ideas. As always we welcome your feedback:

1) Ambrosia I through VII would remain obsolete. A new epic Ambrosia would be introduced.

2) "Epic" Ambrosia would be craftable using a system similar to the Epic item system including tokens and an essence, but perhaps could be created using "essence" from any Epic monster.

3) Usable once every 24 hours, but would remove your death penalty. So, very useful if you have acquired a number of death points.

Thoughts, feedback, comments?

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1) Those who acquired the ambrosia form in the past should not, I think, be required to get it again. Scan for who has it and replace it (or just add it, for those who want ot keep the old form) with the new one.

2/3) With the amount of 1-shot mechanics (and AoE 1-shot stuff), the you'll likely have to mess with how often one can use ambrosia and what it does. 5-10 people getting 1 DP each in an AoE - or 5-10 people getting 4-5 from one raid because of all the dryad multicast bombs (or whatever ability it happens to be at the time that kills nearly the entire group). In the time I've been playing this game, I can think of no instance where I thought 'I'd love to consume something difficult to craft in order to get rid of this death penalty'. In my personal experience, it's never been a problem. Even if ambrosia is put into the game as said above, I'll never use nor craft it. If there is a time in combat where the death penalty is a major problem, something has gone HORRIBLY wrong anyway (and I do not put that word in all caps lightly xD) and it'd likely be a waste getting rid of the death penalty if you wanted to use the ambrosia.

Here's something I suggested in the Discord chat - I wonder if a DP absorb would be possible. For example. Make ambrosia however you make it. Nom it. You now have -3 DP - aka, you can die three times before you feel the effects of death and start to get death penalies. Lasts until you get DP, usable once per day. This way, you can stack up DP absorbs - a makeshift DP 'removal' (removing them from the future! :D) and negating the death penalty that'd come with the absorbed DP.


*peers down at other posts* An AoE resurrect would be pretty sweet, too. REALLY nice. Especially with the amount of mass/group death going on lately. If something can nuke down 90% of the group with a couple casts, it'd be nice to be able to bring the group back up just as easily.

Concerning the whole 'not make confectioner foods obsolete' - putting aside that one could just make ambrosia require high confectioner skill...

t5 claws make t4 claws obsolete, and so on down the tiers. Same for a whole lot of other things I won't bother to list. To me, epics have always been the next tier up, and I don't see why they shouldn't be better than what is crafted 'normally', assuming you're able to actually acquire the epic thingy in the first place. With the current system, there would be no 'simply' collecting ambrosia. I feel that killing an epic mob, winning the roll/doing the daily quest, etc, having the presumably high skill needed to scribe/make the darn thing, easily justifies making ambrosia significantly better than confectioner food.

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Originally Posted by Alisto

..Concerning the whole 'not make confectioner foods obsolete' - putting aside that one could just make ambrosia require high confectioner skill...

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It would still make the foods obsolete. Confectioners no, food, possibly.

So to combat that, just make it rare.

It also needs some other benefit that just dp time removal, to justify bothering with it.

Put the old Essence of Blight resource back in with a new formula. You can continue to use the old form if you wish, or use the new form to get the newer Ambrosia.

The new formula could even make several possible products, since there have been several good ideas presented here.

One could remove a dp+penalty in an aoe effect, so that your group members (and maybe even others not in the group) are "Refreshed" in the middle of a Reklar hunt or Raid event. Removing a death point plus the death penalty which is the real killer to an ongoing epic event. This is a really powerful benefit, essentially equal to 10 or more single Ambrosia's effects in one item. The cost to create it can represent that. So if the essence of blight is a rare random drop off of the epics, then its not something we will wind up with a stack of 200 of..

And please please please make it part of either crates loot or part of the players own loot window. We don't need people fighting over it.

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Originally Posted by Liseth

The reason old ambrosia was made obsolete was because it made all other confectioner food near useless, this is also the reason why it won't be available alongside the new iteration of ambrosia, however it might turn out.

Also, I'm not sure how you mean that players can buy epic weapons with tokens? you still have to craft them, you just need to get tokens now rather than getting specific parts+the formula on a random drop (I personally never liked the "Blood Sword part 1 of 5" dropping over and over for me). If you mean paying another player with the tokens required to craft it that's no different than the old system of trading parts for other parts.

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In no way did it make the confectioner food nearly useless. Not many people wanted to craft it, especially since EOB was rare. Like I mentioned, I have 200 in my vault, and it has not prevented me from using confectioners foods to get rid of a DP.. I haven't even used an Ambrosia in so long. Also, what do you think this new version cut into, class wise that is?. won't affect anything/school in the game? I can't see it NOT affecting some class. Most likely confectioner again.

Probably best off leaving Ambrosia in the past.
If you want to add foods that do an increased amount of time deduction then by all means do,
Heck, make another competiton out of it and get peeps to post ideas for new "rare" foods.

Their are many "rare" foods in-game right now but they are not crafted as they just aren't worth the extra effort to make for the tiny amount of extra time deduction they give.

I'm all for New things, but let's just leave things past...in the past. ;)

Oh you mean Ambrosia, our Gifts from Gods, that was taken away, you want to bring it back but only for high level uses cause you need to get it from epics. I don't think so it should never have been taken away from us at all, bad enough it went for 1dp to 8 hours ..old clock used to have 3-8 hour days/night again only high levels to benefit again not fair. All or none.

Lillyjo