Talk to the Team: Stances

The system of Stances and Styles in Istaria can be confusing. What impacts what, a style conflicts with a stance, or vice versa. Some abilities improve when used with certain stances, others don't. Monsters don't use them. And so on. The thought here is to streamline and make a bit more logical sense out of the system. This change would replace all existing Stances and Styles:


Red Stance "A" (1) = Rename to Offensive (Give +Bonus to Damage)
Yellow Stance "B" (2) = Rename to Defensive (Give +Bonus to Armor)
Green Stance "C" (3) = Rename to Focused (Give +Bonus to Melee/Ranged ToHit)
Blue Stance "D" (4) = Rename to Attuned (Give +Bonus to Spell ToHit)
LightBlue Stance "E" (5) = Rename to Shielded (Give +Bonus to Block)
Orange Stance = Use "F" and 6, Rename to Enraged (Give +Bonus to Str/Pow)
Purple Stance = Use "G" and 7, Rename to Passive (Give +Bonus to Evasion/MagDef)


This is an idea, not concrete implementation.

I very much like this idea. I don't use stances at all, right now, simply because I could never figure out what each does (as mentioned in the OP) and I seem to do fine, without them. Also, because naming them 'red', or 'green', or 'blue', etc, is simply too vague. Every other game I have ever played used more descriptive, player-friendly descriptions....i.e. 'Defensive Style', 'Aggressive Style', 'Berserk Style', etc. Those, at least, give you a certain intuitive indication what each stance/style does...

I really hope you do implement this suggested change, eventually!

/signed

Really a nice idea, I like it and the stances getting a lot more useful.

Love the idea!

This is a good idea.

I really like this idea as well.

Two questions.

Block Stance... will this conflict with Employ Shield, or stack? Will that ability be removed entirely then or will it be changed again? I currently enjoy Employ Shield as it currently is. If it would stack, that'd be fantastic, if it would conflict and overwrite with a lesser bonus... I'd not be to keen on such a change.

Focused Stance.... will this conflict with Precision Style or other abilities that increase to-hit chance, or would it stack as well? Much with Shielded Stance, I'd not want something that is less effective and would overwrite a key ability to a class.

I like this idea as well. I do agree that it would need to be undertaken along with a review of how the various styles work in the new system as well. Maybe split the system up, so that "stances" are generalized across all schools, and then make the "styles" school-specific buffs that could not be mastered (although the same style might belong to more than one school). So then you could have a maximum of one (general) stance and one (school-specific) style up at the same time.

re: some of the questions. Refer to part of my post: "This change would replace all existing Stances and Styles"

What about Ranger's Rapid Fire stance though? I kinda don't see a similar stance in there. :o
Would be kinda sad to see it dissapear. :l

great idea- Flame and me like it!

Let's see if I understand this:

Red Stance "A" (1) = Rename to Offensive (Give +Bonus to Damage) [currently called Power Style]
Yellow Stance "B" (2) = Rename to Defensive (Give +Bonus to Armor) [currently called Defensive Style]
Green Stance "C" (3) = Rename to Focused (Give +Bonus to Melee/Ranged ToHit)
Blue Stance "D" (4) = Rename to Attuned (Give +Bonus to Spell ToHit)
LightBlue Stance "E" (5) = Rename to Shielded (Give +Bonus to Block) [currently called Shield Stance]
Orange Stance = Use "F" and 6, Rename to Enraged (Give +Bonus to Str/Pow)
Purple Stance = Use "G" and 7, Rename to Passive (Give +Bonus to Evasion/MagDef) [Currently called Evasive Style]

Rapid Fire Stance goes away, and Shield Stance can no longer be used at the same time as a Style, and all the confusing and mostly ignored Red/Green/Blue stances and their bonuses go away.

If that's essentially correct, sounds good. I'd prefer a range bonus or +attack/firing rate stance to a +Str/Pow stance, since there are many ways to get +Str/Pow

Some revisions and more thoughts.

• Rename "Enraged" (Orange) stance in the previous post to "Alerted" and instead of a bonus to str/pow make it a bonus to recycle/delay.
• Change Shielded (LightBlue) to give a bonus to Parry as well as Block
• Change Passive (Purple) to give a bonus to Dodge as well as Evasion and Magic Defense.

I also had some thoughts about how the basic abilities could interact with certain stances. The idea here being that an ability might have different secondary effects if you are in different stances.

Matter/Flame/Ice/Energy/Spirit/etc Bolt, Breath of Fire

• Red Stance - +Damage
• Yellow - % Chance to Ward vs Spell Damage
• Green - None
• Blue - Improved Recycle
• LightBlue - None
• Orange - % Chance to gain an Extra Attack/Hit
• Purple - % Chance to gain a bonus to the Abilities' Skill

Power Strike, Power Shot, Claw Strike

• Red - +Damage
• Yellow - Improved Recycle
• Green - % Chance to cause a Bleed
• Blue - None
• LightBlue - +Agro (Taunt)
• Orange - % Chance to avoid next incoming attack
• Purple - None

Thoughts?

Bolts are repeating spells, this will add in average more power to spellcasters - Power Strike, Power Shot and Claw Strike are special abilities. If a boon is given to repeating spells, it should be given the same boon to those who use weapons on claws.

Should have been clear, when I typed "Bolts" I was thinking of some abilities that you get from the school, not the scribed spells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmonGwareth

Some revisions and more thoughts.

• Rename "Enraged" (Orange) stance in the previous post to "Alerted" and instead of a bonus to str/pow make it a bonus to recycle/delay.
• Change Shielded (LightBlue) to give a bonus to Parry as well as Block
• Change Passive (Purple) to give a bonus to Dodge as well as Evasion and Magic Defense.

I also had some thoughts about how the basic abilities could interact with certain stances. The idea here being that an ability might have different secondary effects if you are in different stances.

Matter/Flame/Ice/Energy/Spirit/etc Bolt, Breath of Fire

• Red Stance - +Damage
• Yellow - % Chance to Ward vs Spell Damage
• Green - None
• Blue - Improved Recycle
• LightBlue - None
• Orange - % Chance to gain an Extra Attack/Hit
• Purple - % Chance to gain a bonus to the Abilities' Skill

Power Strike, Power Shot, Claw Strike

• Red - +Damage
• Yellow - Improved Recycle
• Green - % Chance to cause a Bleed
• Blue - None
• LightBlue - +Agro (Taunt)
• Orange - % Chance to avoid next incoming attack
• Purple - None

Thoughts?

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Can't come up with any reason why I wouldn't like it haha, so:
Love the idea! :o

Flame, I like the idea even if it might make things more complex. I just had a thought about this stance stuff.
When I play ELAR and use head shot, it changes automatically to blue stance. If I use power shot it changes auto
to red stance. However, when my goat plays Ranger, she has to manually pick red or blue stance just like
she has to pick the other stances Ranger has. I find this slows me down a lot.
Now if we get all these stance abilities, we are going to be
going rather nuts going from one to the next?

I like this system as well, especially with the additions to parry, delay, and dodge. When it comes to affecting abilities in the individual schools, I'm thinking this should be coded in each ability as the schools are redone, and the benefits noted in the tool tips. Much like how now crit strike benefits from blue, power strike from red. Also, I'm wondering about abilities that act like some of the replaced stances or styles, and share timers with some of them-- like "flow like water" and "melee flurry". How will this change affect them, if at all? As part of the new system, I'm guessing that nothing that is not one of the new stances would share a timer with a change in the new stances? Evasive style shares a timer delay with "flows like water." Would that go away in the new system (i.e. activating purple stance would not suddenly cause a delay in the ability to activate "flow like water" right after)?

I'm thinking the stances could be changed all at once, and then changes to the abilities affected by stances could happen more slowly and in limited sets of schools per patch. This makes it much easier to keep balancing and bug-fixing to a small scale task. And coincidentally allow players to absorb the changes over time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ming

Flame, I like the idea even if it might make things more complex. I just had a thought about this stance stuff.
When I play ELAR and use head shot, it changes automatically to blue stance. If I use power shot it changes auto
to red stance. However, when my goat plays Ranger, she has to manually pick red or blue stance just like
she has to pick the other stances Ranger has. I find this slows me down a lot.
Now if we get all these stance abilities, we are going to be
going rather nuts going from one to the next?

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Huh, you hotkeyed them to automaticly switch stances with attacks?
And I think it would make things less complex actually, as you'd probably want to stick with one stance, or 2 at most, depending on the situation, atleast that's my guess, seeing the new stances. Instead of switching green-red-blue everytime an ability comes off cd.

Personally my 3 stances would be orange/yellow/green :P
For melee/ranged , sometimes switching not all times, as there's usually 1 stance, maybe 2 that jumps out for your playstyle.
Mages would probably be orange/blue/purple. For me that is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmonGwareth

Some revisions and more thoughts.

I also had some thoughts about how the basic abilities could interact with certain stances. The idea here being that an ability might have different secondary effects if you are in different stances.

Thoughts?

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I like this idea of secondary effects. Also may make a stance you would normally not use interesting.

No, I didn't hotkey them to switch, they just switch all by themselves. I love that and hope it's not a bug that will now be removed because I opened my gnome trap and said so...

huh, you're probably the only one then :o
never had mine switch by themselves

When I think of stances and how they used to work, I mainly used them defensively. I knew that in green I took more damage from certain attacks in red. So when the mob used red I switched to blue. The new ones just feel like something players will use (a particular one) and forget about switching or using another all that much. But a "stance" to me, is a combat pose, either one more offensive or defensive. So for combat, I wouldn't make them at all the "+Damage" (the one most players would use). It's just another damage boost, and we got a lot of those already.


What I would think about, would be keeping the stance purpose of being both offensive and defensive at the same time, like the old ones. Because then, you always had to be on your toes, and was less often a use and forget type ability.


so, say Red does 10% more damage to targets in Green, but takes 10% more damage from targets in Blue. Honestly this is pretty good combat mechanic as it is (if the mobs used them that is). The only reason they fell by the wayside, was at some point ages ago, it was decided that the mobs shouldn't use stances anymore. I don't know at all why that change was made, but I think all the mobs should get to use stances. And be able to swap them every so often, at least in the case of what would be a "Smarter" mob like the WA. dumber mobs like say golems could say use a stance when it spawns and not bother to change it. but humanoid or dragon mobs would switch them up often in fights (so as to be more challenging).


they could be renamed from red green blue. and there could be a few more in the mix. Like Yellow and Purple, and Red would take more damage from Blue and Yellow, and do more damage to green and purple (for example). But the mobs should definitely also get all the new stances, and at least 1 stance needs to be a counter or defense against another.


So I suppose my thinking on them would be 1) give all the mobs the stances, and 2) the players should be kept on the defense during combat. so having to choose proper stance to stop taking additional damage. To keep it from being too strong, it could be that Red does 5% more damage to Green, but takes 10% more damage from Blue (or whatever names they end up as). and neutral would take all the increased damage from all the stances, so the player has to use stances to keep the damage "normalized" at the original damage amounts... cause if they don't the incoming damage would go up.


Now, all of the ideas you had such as Improved recycle, +damage, chance for extra attack. I like those, but think they could be better used to help boost certain schools that need it. like monk, spearman, crossbowman. so they could be new class abilities (and either masterable or not), that helps boost classes that need it. maybe save them for certain class revamps. Like the chance to cause a bleed could be a new ability for spearman that applies to 1hp attacks. And also, however those types of abilities are implemented, mobs should also get them (maybe even slightly better versions).


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As an alternative to the above, and more in line with Amon's ideas, the +Damage stance could be "+10% damage on next three attacks" after which it provides no more benefit and fades... They would have recycles of 30 sec or 1 min maybe. so they would be used, after which the player could use a different stance, but not go back to a particular one for 60 seconds... that would ensure that they are tactically used, and not be a static thing players mindlessly click on when they login and never change...

Also, they all need to be abilities with 0 pre or post delay (or very near to 0).
If they have any significant combat delay, they might not always be worth using.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmonGwareth

The system of Stances and Styles in Istaria can be confusing. What impacts what, a style conflicts with a stance, or vice versa. Some abilities improve when used with certain stances, others don't. Monsters don't use them. And so on. The thought here is to streamline and make a bit more logical sense out of the system. This change would replace all existing Stances and Styles:


Red Stance "A" (1) = Rename to Offensive (Give +Bonus to Damage)
Yellow Stance "B" (2) = Rename to Defensive (Give +Bonus to Armor)
Green Stance "C" (3) = Rename to Focused (Give +Bonus to Melee/Ranged ToHit)
Blue Stance "D" (4) = Rename to Attuned (Give +Bonus to Spell ToHit)
LightBlue Stance "E" (5) = Rename to Shielded (Give +Bonus to Block)
Orange Stance = Use "F" and 6, Rename to Enraged (Give +Bonus to Str/Pow)
Purple Stance = Use "G" and 7, Rename to Passive (Give +Bonus to Evasion/MagDef)


This is an idea, not concrete implementation.

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Did they remove stances from monsters they use to have them but I have only been back 6 weeks after like 8-10 years away when i left stances matter on monsters because they switch mid fight and sometimes you switch to blue to get more damage from critstrike and take extra damage because the mob would be in green stance it kept it some what interesting.

Stances were removed from monsters, yes.

will there be negatives? As in if your in Offensive stance will you take more damage?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smaug

will there be negatives? As in if your in Offensive stance will you take more damage?

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Monsters can't really use stances properly so my goal had been to provide bonuses to players, not negatives. I don't really see a benefit to penalizing a player for a particular stance if the monster isn't using them properly against you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmonGwareth

Monsters can't really use stances properly so my goal had been to provide bonuses to players, not negatives. I don't really see a benefit to penalizing a player for a particular stance if the monster isn't using them properly against you.

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This gives me flash backs to a previous MMO I played before it shut down and we had auras we could switch and I loved that so i like your idea a lot