Epic Forms and token

First sorry for my poor english.

Second... Epic Forms and token...
I already had all the old forms scribed but don't already had all the items... But at least i was capable of doing all.
Some found with hunt, some bought (1-2 or 5 gold for form).
Now i haven't the old form scribed, i have few token, not even enough for buy 1 new form...
Done 1 quest for lesser... 10 token... need over 6k for have all... so i had to hunt about 600 times a "lesser" mob for be capable of do... something i was already capable of doing?
Is like attunement, have to redo all again isn't a "new thing", is boring.
New things ok, redo old things in another way nope.

Hunting "epic mobs" for craft items is good, have to hunt 10-50-100-600 times for be capable to craft it, when you were already capable nope.

So please fix this thing, because for me is bad.

Your English may be a little poor, but I understand you loud and clear. I think I had 4 Reklar formulas un-scribed in my vault and a few pieces for various things. I have 3 sets of 24 tokens thats 72 epic cores? There is still one strange form I had that changed name for the Talon not sure how that got missed or what to do with it now. I hear that it takes 288 to make a new weapon and I had quite a bit of stuff and it's 72? Yea I'm not sure it really adds up.

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Originally Posted by Korchak Strongbone

Your English may be a little poor, but I understand you loud and clear. I think I had 4 Reklar formulas un-scribed in my vault and a few pieces for various things. I have 3 sets of 24 tokens thats 72 epic cores? There is still one strange form I had that changed name for the Talon not sure how that got missed or what to do with it now. I hear that it takes 288 to make a new weapon and I had quite a bit of stuff and it's 72? Yea I'm not sure it really adds up.

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I had all of reklars and Valkors biped forms scribed (atleast I think it was all) I know there was 6 of them... not impressed at getting only a tiny fraction of the required tokens back.. if it was half it woulda been fine.. but 24 for each form.. no not happy at that. And the fact it unscribed forms too.. fortunately for me I already made the epic items I needed but. if i want more in the future i have some serious hunting to do.

Would I like to be reimbersed for more sure. course I would.
Is it game breaking no.

It`s this very reason I never got into epic hunts/crafts. keep changing things to make it more a pain then it`s worth. no thanks. Spending so many gold to buy the forms, only to have them stripped away, and given little to nothing in compensation? Seems to me, they`re trying to chase away all the elder players. I`ll stick to simple plot/lair work, and regular quest lines. least until those get scrapped/revamped too.

Darkwing, the forms have been epic loot- no gold lost here.

Lets give the new sytem a try- the old one was not good enough anymore. Something had to be done.

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Originally Posted by LOVWYRM

Darkwing, the forms have been epic loot- no gold lost here.

Lets give the new sytem a try- the old one was not good enough anymore. Something had to be done.

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Darkwing is probably referring to that you could buy an epic form off the connie from someone else. I know I sold a couple for a heft chunk of shinies.

To reply to the tokens thing, I am sorry Lovwyrm, but i do not agree with the choices that were made to give 24 tokens for each master form a player has already earned once already and have taken away from them in a instant to be force to do the same grind all over again is unacceptable, Granted I only had 3 valkor forms scribed but each one i worked for and idea of 24 tokens as "fair compensation" is nothing more than a insult to all players that worked for what they got. For me I feel the only acceptable compensations for the master forms that each player has scribed would either be a replacement form or enough tokens to re purchase every master form that was wrongfully taken from them

@Lov, I don't think we're arguing the new system, it seems to have generated significant interest and re-invigorated the epic hunts (from what I've heard). The problem is with the exchanges made. As has been mentioned here and other threads, those who had the forms and even many pieces (yes, this includes myself, so take it with a grain of selfish-salt), these took a ******** long time to get, many lost rolls. And now we've been 'gifted' a mere one-twelfth (I think Guaran mentioned in another post), of that effort. So we lost all the forms and now don't even have enough to buy ONE form... that's the gripe here I believe... WHY TAKE THE FORMS AT ALL?!? *sigh*

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Originally Posted by hallucin8

@Lov, I don't think we're arguing the new system, it seems to have generated significant interest and re-invigorated the epic hunts (from what I've heard). The problem is with the exchanges made. As has been mentioned here and other threads, those who had the forms and even many pieces (yes, this includes myself, so take it with a grain of selfish-salt), these took a ******** long time to get, many lost rolls. And now we've been 'gifted' a mere one-twelfth (I think Guaran mentioned in another post), of that effort. So we lost all the forms and now don't even have enough to buy ONE form... that's the gripe here I believe... WHY TAKE THE FORMS AT ALL?!? *sigh*

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The forms themselves are different I beleive.

Personally since they can't give back forms taken I would like to see the cost of the forms cut by atleast a factor of 4.. at the moment they are just tooo expensive for the "reward" we got.

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Originally Posted by Calyndrell

The forms themselves are different I beleive.

Personally since they can't give back forms taken I would like to see the cost of the forms cut by atleast a factor of 4.. at the moment they are just tooo expensive for the "reward" we got.

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Heh, duh, of course they're different (silly me)... perhaps 'swapping' the old forms for the new ones would have been preferable, or given at least 80% of the tokens required to buy the new ones. But as was pointed out in the OP, sounds like there could be some adjustments made (albeit so as not to make it too easy to get epics)

I wanted to expound on all the chatter about the epic tokens for our forms and pieces from epics that we had. It looks like the common trade when the delta went through was 24 tokens, and it cost 288 tokens to get it back. I had those 4 formulas in my vault unscribed, I had the skills to scribe them, I just didn't have all the pieces so I saved it. They were very valuable and sometimes you can come across a player that will trade a formula for a piece ect..

Background: In the past typically it would take 10 people to take down reklar, and then 10 people would roll for the piece IF IT DROPPED. It didn't always drop then 1 person would win. It might take 7-8 times of unluckiness or more to win a form or a piece. I know this was complained about and you guys changed the game to try to help that. I thank you for that, however 24 tokens for all those kills is unfair. In todays world of istaria those 7-8 kills with the quest would at least give you 70-80 tokens plus the loot drop.

I am ok with the new loot system on epics, however I do very strongly believe that any forms that we had in the past that were unscribed or scribed were ours already, we put in the blood, sweat and tears to get them and why did I need to lose that formula? I have already killed Reklar many times to roll for those. We should be grandfathered in to any forms we had that were unscribed to even the playing field and then move on with the new system for anything else. I understand the formulas are different now, so we should have gotten 288 epic tokens to replace the formulas that were ripped from our cold dead hands.
Hopeful player,
-Korchak Strongbone (Adventure Rating 232, Grand Master Crafter)

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Originally Posted by Korchak Strongbone

I am ok with the new loot system on epics, however I do very strongly believe that any forms that we had in the past that were unscribed or scribed were ours already, we put in the blood, sweat and tears to get them and why did I need to lose that formula? I have already killed Reklar many times to roll for those. We should be grandfathered in to any forms we had that were unscribed to even the playing field and then move on with the new system for anything else. I understand the formulas are different now, so we should have gotten 288 epic tokens to replace the formulas that were ripped from our cold dead hands.
Hopeful player,
-Korchak Strongbone (Adventure Rating 232, Grand Master Crafter)

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I'll add in here too, this just might be the straw that breaks the camel for me. I was majorly upset on the last change
that took away our Master forms and we were forced to buy the "new" half of a formula we already had paid 2.5 gold for.

NOW I have a pile of tokens that don't come close to replacing the forms I already had scribed for the Epic weapons on
my toons. The Reklar Sash is incredibly hard to get as a drop, and on Order the chances for Epic hunts anymore are
almost zero. We just don't have the population anymore. I had four epic forms on one toon (Pickel) and the Sash
was scribed by Andaras.

I've updated my ticket to VI and posted it into the General topic for this EPIC change.

If they don't compensate me appropriately (Full recovery of previously scribed formulae), I'll be considering leaving
Istaria after 11 years. Hard thing to decide, but with the Devs openly pushing "tough noogies, we don't care about
your hard work" to the Elder players, I think it's time.

Andaras

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Originally Posted by Andaras

If they don't compensate me appropriately (Full recovery of previously scribed formulae), I'll be considering leaving
Istaria after 11 years. Hard thing to decide, but with the Devs openly pushing "tough noogies, we don't care about
your hard work" to the Elder players, I think it's time.

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Although I don't like that they took our forms (i lost 6 in total, my wife also lost 2) I don't think they quite come across as not caring. I would accept perhaps as little as 75% refund...

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Originally Posted by Calyndrell

I would accept perhaps as little as 75% refund...

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I would accept no less than 80%, on par with novians :P

/rant (this is the rant section, right)
I'm guessing, from the dev point of view, they're made it considerably 'easier' to get them again. In the past, as Kor said, we'd have to hunt for a freaking long time, loosing many /randoms and even getting completely shafted with the 'no loot' kills. The new epic system seems much more even, especially for those who can't hunt these behemoths every day (anecdotal aside: I'd noticed in the past, it was hard to get new hunters along, as they felt they would never win a random and thus never get the pieces/weapons, so why bother... but now, with everyone getting something, it should be easier to get people involved)... double kick in the shins though, with Dragon DPS considerably lessened, makes it harder yet again though not impossible of course.

grain of salt: my playing times are typically in the quiet times, so getting a full group has always been hard for me, I can only imagine it would be harder on Order. That said, through sheer perseverance over many years and some other very kind hunters, I have managed epic weapons from Sog and Valkor, never Reklar though... stingy Dragon (he was the worst for the 'no loot' kills).

Another thing of new system...

We need some main forms (Epic armor Reklar's Sash of Fury and so on, 18 x 288 token) and some "middle" too (Alchemy component, Scale component and so, so another 5 x 72 token, without these we can't do nothing), then we need to buy Epic Armor Core or Weapon Core... for each craft, so another 24 everytime.

So maybe we have to hunt for Sog forms, maybe new "middle" forms. But if someone have before, need at least the same value for rebuy it, and we already have some work to do for be capable to craft again in anyway.

So new things are nice, ty for that, but working months again for redo 1 thing isn't funny at all.