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The New Subscription Model
We received a lot of feedback from the Istarian Community. We listened and below is the new pricing structure that we're putting forward.
If you are one of the people with a "wait and see" or "prove it" perspective - (you want to stand back from the dock), we'd like to suggest the Basic Subscription. This is less than the previous monthly rate of $12.95 and will give you a chance to be in game and involved for less.
If you have an existing plot or more than one plot - but want to keep both feet on the dock, we'd like to suggest the Grandfather Subscription. You can lock in at the old monthly pricing or purchase a block of time at the old block price. Block purchases for Grandfather Subscriptions are a one time, special deal. They do not renew and after the block expires, you will need to select one of the Gifted Subscription with A La Carte options. This subscription has all the features of the old billing system and will be available until September 15, 2007. Please note that this subscription can not be used with the A La Carte upgrade system.
If you like what we're doing - but want to keep one foot on the dock (and one in the water), we'd like to suggest the Gifted Subscription. We've increased the number of character slots and consignment slots. You can also add extra character slots or consignment slots using the Al La Carte System (somebody out there come up with a clever Istarianish name for this Al La Carte thing).
If you love what we're doing and are ready to get both feet wet (we're already in and it's only going to get better), there are 6 and 12 month Gifted Subscription available. We are also putting together something special to show our appreciation for anyone who takes advantage of this offer between now and when we start Plot Reclamation.
BASIC SUBSCRIPTION
New players starting out or previous players wanting to have a look around.
Intended for short term use.
Can not use A La Carte Upgrades.
Monthly Automatic Renewal - $9.95
3 character slots
1 concurrent Login
50 Global Consignment Slots
GRANDFATHER SUBSCRIPTION
Temporarily available for current players of Horizons.
If allowed to expire, can not be renewed.
Can not use A La Carte Upgrades.
Monthly Automatic Renewal - $12.95
1 Plot or Lair
75 Global Consignment Slots
5 Character Slots
1 Concurrent Login
6 Month Grandfather Subscription - One Time Special - No Renewal - $65.70 (6 months at $10.95/month)
12 Month Grandfather Subscription - One Time Special - No Renewal - $119.40 (12 months at $9.95/month)
GIFTED SUBSCRIPTION
Players who decide Horizons is their game.
Allows full use of A La Carte system.
Monthly Automatic Renewal - $14.95
1 Plot or Lair
150 Global Consignment Slots
7 Character Slots
1 Concurrent Login
6 Month Gifted Subscription - Automatic Renewal - $77.70 (6 months at $12.95/month) (Short Term Promotion - After Plot Reclamation starts, will revert to $83.70)
12 Month Gifted Subscription - Automatic Renewal - $155.40 (12 months at $12.95/month)
A La Carte Upgrades
5 extra characters: $5/month
100 consignment slots: $5/month
Future A La Carte Upgrades
Vault / Silo Upgrades: We're investigating but not likely to happen
XML Character dump: We're investigating - may or may not happen
Personal Consigner Listing on Website: We're investigating - may or may not happen
Special Plots: Very not likely to happen
Personal Dock (Duck): We're investigating
We know we're not going to make everyone happy, but we think we have hit a very good middle ground with the new pricing structure. If you think we've brought new meaning to the term evil corporation - especially after we've tried to reach some middle ground on the Grandfather Subscriptions - please send your comments to [email protected] We have worked hard to balance the needs of Horizons customers with the needs of the business and do what we think is right to ensure Horizons over the long run.
If you like what's happening, or at least are willing to wait and see, we hope one of the new subscriptions works for you. The new billing system goes live very shortly.
We're dedicated to seeing Horizons grow and are glad you're with us.
See you in Istaria!
Thank you,
Horizons Development Team
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Can I get both of my accounts grandfathered?
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Re: The New Subscription Model
All existing accounts have been migrated into the new billing system. As soon as we open up the new web site, you can log into any and all accounts and select what ever subscription works for you. Since the new system supports much more flexible billing and upgrades - we like to suggest you add multiple subscriptions to a single account and then submit a support ticket requesting we merge characters and plots onto your single active account.
Horizons CS
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Re: The New Subscription Model
I find this agreeable enough. On a slightly related note, will the new billing site be compatable with Firefox or will it be much like the old/current login site and only compatable with Internet Exploader? I seem to recall having lots of issues trying when I tried signing up (and paying for) on Firefox.
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I have one account and 2 subs, and 2 lairs, 3 characters on chaos and 2 characters on order and LOTS of characters on Blight. I want to pay to maintain all these I have, which plan would work best?
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And yes - [email protected] - really does work. (You know who you are).
Horizons CS
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Will Unity players get the grandfathered option too, whenever their accounts get copied?
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You mentioned on the other post, the one requesting our thoughts, about military support subscriptions. Is that going to happen? and if so, which subscription level will it be? If not... let us know as well.
Thanks
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Ok, how do we get our account to be linked to plots that we already own that the EII system didn't recognize?
What information do we need to submit with our ticket?
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So, let me get this straight then guys. I currently have 5 accounts. two that are on the 26.95 (or whatever) it is for a 3 month billing cycle. So to keep these, i will need to get 5 of the grandfather subs? And what happens AFTER the 15th of September? Will I then need to change to one of the other types? Or will I be able to keep paying the 12.95 under the "grandfather' sub payment plan?
Telshyia
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Re: The New Subscription Model
If I sub the GIFTED SUBSCRIPTION BLOCK RENEWAL 6 moth and then in 6 month want to renw as 12 I assume that would not be a problem?
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WOW!
Very bad idea, good luck on getting that 10k sub mark charging premium prices for a sub-standard game.
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/me wonders what the "something special" for getting the 6 or 12 month gifted account is.
That might be incentive because really I would be paying the same amount on my grandfathered account anyway...
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So, how exactly are you going to grandfather in those six month and yearly paid subscriptions that say, paid for a year before this new system goes in? All I see for a grandfathered account, is 12.95 a month.
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Mm. I approve.
And hey. I can appreciate a little Evil(tm).
I am secretly a member of the Withered Aegis, you know. The Avatar of Pain plays Playstation 2 with me sometimes.
Editing myself: I paid 12.95/mo monthy (never paid the bulk sub) so if I pay for 6 months now my cost doesn't go up. I guess the best way to describe all of this is a 'compromise'. Keep in mind they likely had to look at the existing subs, expect some to stop, expect some to restart, and make a guess from there. But eh. I just hope it works out no matter what for as many people as possible.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
I'll be very honest with you guys too and tell you how I'm feeling right now.
I feel like you guys wanted to give us the idea we could have a say in this but you already made up your mind about taking the $14.95.
This is going to mean I'm going from $65.70 to $77.70 which I personally think is a total ripoff and totally disrespectfull towards your loyal playerbase.
I've been playing this game since december 15th 2003 and started on Ice, I stayed around all this time and now I'm being thanked by you guys for hanging around for this long.
My fiancee and I have 7 accounts, 7 x $77.70 = $543.90, of this we will only use the plots and the lairs and not all of the logins.
This really feels like a slap in the face.
I have to reconcider if I'm even going to remain playing this game if you're going to treat your loyal players like this.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arzel Rashemi
So, how exactly are you going to grandfather in those six month and yearly paid subscriptions that say, paid for a year before this new system goes in? All I see for a grandfathered account, is 12.95 a month.
There are a lot of people reading this thread so I'll quote incase I end up three posts down below where I want.
The 6 or 12 month subs are based off of 12.95 a month which is the same as the grandfathered account. So I could get my grandfathered account and pay 12.95 a month for a year which comes out to $155.40 or just buy that gifted 12 month sub for the same amount just upfront. Really the only account you're paying more for is a gifted account paying month by month.
Edit: Buh I missread what they were saying...I'm a bad Dragon. My post still hold true though. Except the promotional account that some had the only account you'll end up actually paying more for is monthly gifted.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
We are working with EI to transition the previous account information over to the new billing system. For now, if you had a previous paying account, it is comped an indefinite period of time.
Horizons CS
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I would suggest a little more than 17 days to grandfather in as well. You need to take into consideration that there are folks on vacation, having computer problems and can't log in and other various reasons that would prevent them from grandfathering in before the time limit is up.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sunuke
This is going to mean I'm going from $65.70 to $77.70 which I personally think is a total ripoff and totally disrespectfull towards your loyal playerbase.
I've been playing this game since december 15th 2003 and started on Ice, I stayed around all this time and now I'm being thanked by you guys for hanging around for this long.
My fiancee and I have 7 accounts, 7 x $77.70 = $543.90, of this we will only use the plots and the lairs and not all of the logins.
This really feels like a slap in the face.
We thought we had all previous customers covered by creating the Grandfather Subscription - but now realized we excluded previous block subscriptions. We are discussing this now.
Horizons CS
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Re: The New Subscription Model
"We know we're not going to make everyone happy, but we think we have hit a very good middle ground with the new pricing structure. If you think we've brought new meaning to the term evil corporation, please send your comments to [email protected]"
That just blows my mind..........
You had the chance to keep billing as is and not upset anyone, but you decided to go with this plan KNOWING that it would upset some people and make them not want to re-sub.
Brilliant!!
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Horizons CS
We thought we had all previous customers covered by creating the Grandfather Subscription - but now realized we excluded previous block subscriptions. We are discussing this now.
Horizons CS
But that option is only available for a very limited time.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Horizons CS
We are working with EI to transition the previous account information over to the new billing system. For now, if you had a previous paying account, it is comped an indefinite period of time.
Horizons CS
In an ideal world, the four months remaining on my six month renewal would result in a $45 or so transfer to Virtrium. It's possible that this may not happen... :rolleyes:. I suppose that when more details emerge, I'll learn how to seamlessly extend that subscription. Nonetheless, that doesn't do Virtrium much good in the here and now, or even the real soon now. Will there be a donation button on the accounts site? Will it be possible to pre-extend the existing account?
I thought you did a great job of coming up with a coherent plan given the broad range of opinions. Sorta slalomed through the eyes of multiple needles.
No doubt the mileage of others will vary. :).
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Another thing that's really still not understandable and still hasn't been answered while I asked the question in the other tread.
Why are you taking down the consigner slots?
I see you're putting more characters on the gifted account. I don't want 7 characters, I want to be able to have a plot/lair as an A la cart option so my fiancee and I can play this game in an affordable way.
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How does that saying go exactly?
"You can please some people some of the time, you can please some people most of the time, but you can't please everyone all the time."
Honestly, I expected month-to-month subs to go up a buck or two and would have been surprised if they had not. From my perspective, its not a matter of whether this is a top-of-the-line-game or well polished, fresh off the shelf. The game has been stagnant for well over a year, no arguing that...but. Along with that stagnation is the fact the billing was for all practical purposes a farce and non-existent and we, the players, certainly have no idea what kind of mess was handed over to the new owners, the condition of the equipment, how much of that equipment remains and in working order.
The first thing they have got to be able to do is start getting income and at a minimum, making monthly payments for the game, rent on their offices, electric bills, etc...without any of that...the game disappears and once that happens, it will be a lot harder to ressurrect than just bringing it back from the brink of death...as has been the case these past 12-14 months.
I also saw lots of people complaining earlier that what they wanted was the ability to pay. Now guess what...it's about to happen and all anyone can do is complain.
Now I know some people are on limited budgets with little in the way of discretionary funds. I think the 'grandfathered' payment option is an excellent idea...you may or may not spend more (depending if they come up with a block arrangement) and for most of those...having the option for ala carte items is negligible.
Maybe I'm naive, gullible or overly optimistic, and some would say at forty I should know better, but I am more than willing to take a chance on these guys and the new owners. When they announce that the billing site is up and running...I'll be there grabbing a couple grandfather subs. I still have a dream of owning and building a large uber plot of my own.
That should about cover things for now.
Aaelefein
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sunuke
Why are you taking down the consigner slots?
The number of consigner slots goes UP by 50% on the Gifted plan vs. the existing subscription rate.
Having a plot has always required an active subscription. You're not being asked to do anything more than you under the old subscription plan.
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Paladin, what they refer to is they will be giving people until (probably not set in stone) September 15th, 2007 to decide if they want the Grandfather option. After the "end date (which could change)" any player using their billing page will have to choose a new option of payment (no grandfather)
It looks good, unfortunately you can't please everyone, and the "caster oil still tastes bad, no matter how you look at it, and now the bottle costs 14.95"
I am sorry that those in this post are upset by thinking our input was a wasted effort, and that the price tag was never going to change...
My only beef, and it has been addressed and is "being looked into" was those who had been paying "Block" (and I swear it was mentioned by many, including me several times, the price difference between what I was paying "block" vs. their new pricing structure)
Here was the breakdown when they had block pricing:
If you bought "block"
3 months was 11.95 per month
6 months was 10.95 per month
12 months was 9.95 per month
Then the sale came and if you jumped on it, you got 3, 6, and 12 month blocks for 8.95 per month!
Now if I want to buy a block of time... there are no "grandfather block purchases"
Those who pay the "Gifted 6 month" for block time will get billed 2 dollars a month more (12 dollars more for 6 months). What do you get for the 12 dollars?
2 extra character slots
5 extra consignment slots
unknown in-game fluff if done before plot reclamation.
Seeings how the A La Carte system allows you to get 5 more character slots for 5 dollars (you are getting 2, so 2 dollars) and 10 consignment slots is another 5 dollars (you are getting 1/2 extra so 2.50) so for paying 2 dollars a month for a 6 month block subscription, you are actually saving 2.50 cents for what it would have cost you A La Carte. *whew*
But... if you don't need 5 more consignment slots, OR 2 extra character slots, then there is no other option but grandfathering month to month at 12.95 per month for what you have now. (you spend 2 extra dollars and get NOTHING) or you can up for 6 months and the 2 dollars gets you 2 more character slots, and 5 consignment slots.
Because there are no grandfather block accounts, you will take a 2 dollar hit no matter how you look at it... however...
I am on the 8.95 per month 1 year block. it will be costing me 4 dollars more per month if I want a gifted 12 month subscription. I save 50 cents vs. someone who was on the "non-sale" block purchases.
For my 4 dollars a month, I get the same as someone who was paying the same block time, but they only have to pay 2 dollars a month.
this math is causing me brain tumors.... need to stop... must ... take ... advil ...
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Re: The New Subscription Model
There is one thing that is confusing me so very much. If I take the grandfathered, then I have to file a ticket, to merge both accounts. But, I will be charged for two accounts, and thats fine, but do I keep both my plots when the merge takes place? Would I be better off, getting the gifted one, so that I can keep the accounts separate to keep each plot on each account? And have dual log in? Or, conversely, would I be able to do a dual log in, if my second account is merged with my first account? This stuff is confuzzling.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
peaches, We have a merged account already...
If you have 2 subs under 1 account:
You can concurrently log in 2 characters (any 2 from the 10) and play them together.
If you have 2 separate subs under 2 accounts, you can only log 1 character from a set of 5 slots... if the 2 characters are on the same account, they cannot log in together.
The drawback of this, if you have kids, or share the account with others, they can then log in as your character and do sneaky things ;) if you have them all under the same account.
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I'm in a quandry as well.
ALL of my characters are one one account, one very nice 10-character account. Now, to do this the way I want to, I'm going to have to set one subscription this weekend (planned anyway) and one in November (hopefully I've done the months right for that one). Will both those cover my 9 characters in the one account, or am I going to have 5 with a 4-character overflow, plus an empty account? And how does this work for Tagath and C`gan playing on at the same time?
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I think this was a good compromise in the billing system. (Believe me, if I didn't think it was, you'd be hearing about it loud and clear!)
I have a couple of questions though...
1) Will an extra plot/lair ever be added to the a la carte system?
2) When do you think you'll have an idea as to the pricing on grandfathered block subs?
3) If I already have two subs on one account...I can still do that, right? I'm assuming this is this case, but I think some might be a wee bit confused about it.
Thanks for listening to our feedback, by the way. It was very much appreciated. *happy kitty* (Menkure, where can I get those cute kitty smilies?)
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Questions:
1) Could the grandfathered offer please be extended to last at least a month? (To October 1st would be better). Some of us are only paid once a month *cough* me *cough* and need more time to plan than just a couple weeks? I think you'll also need more than just a couple weeks for news to spread and existing customers to decide to come back.
2) If I go month to month on a grandfathered account, am I guarenteed that I'll only pay $12.95 a month so long as I keep the account open?
3) If so, what's the benefit to me (someone with a grandfathered account), to paying in one lump sum up front?
4) And I've never understood the difference between having two accounts versus one with multiple subscriptions. My husband, son and I all want to play. That's three people. Do we need three accounts if we all want to play at the same time?
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well brave move Vitrium.
You do realize you will be expected now to perform on par with the other MMO's that charge $14.95.
But if you are willing to try than no one can fault that really.
Good luck !!!
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Well... It looks like a reasonable compromise. Theres a low-rate plan for people getting started (why pay for a plot slot when you can't build one or buy one?) and a few ways to get the 'old' 12.95 rate.
Great for the player who paid by the month, they have no change. Not so great for the players who budgeted for the long term, discounted (block) plans. I'm going to see what (if any) the grandfathered block rates look like before I think about what I can and can't afford. I suggest that everyone in the same position do so as well.
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(This is a separate post for a reason!)
Will Blight characters still be "freebies"? (That is, not take up a character slot.)
Is it possible to set up some sort of plot promotion on Blight?
A few ideas:
- One free Blight plot per paid account (not per subscription).
- An automated mechanism to receive a temporary comp account for the purpose of testing plots on Blight.
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I can't believe you folks would increase subscription prices for a four-year-old game that was on it's last legs. I was looking around to see if it was April 1. Horizons is deficient in many services that other titles provide, and yet you ask for more money. That is just insane.
I used to have 4 subs paid in 3-month increments. That will not be happening and it doesn't even look like it's possible, so I will probably get 1 grandfathered account and wait a bit to see what happens. That's a loss to Horizons owners of around 42 bucks a month from my end.
To me, this is a completely foolish move. If anything, the price should have been reduced to encourage more people to sign up and get hooked. I am flabbergasted. I predict you are going to wind up getting some of the loyal following to sign up at these prices, but you're not gonna get much in the way of new subs.
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Well, after reading over your decisions, I feel that this thread is as good as any to post mine.
It's clear to me that you really didn't listen even though you claim that you did, but I'll not harp on that.
I want to say, to everyone on Order, a very fond farewell. I can not afford $15/mo this game right now and even if I could, this game isn't worth $15 in it's current state. There's really no use to sit here and"wait and see" because this was the sign I was looking for, the time has come for me to leave for good.
No sense in pay $13/mo temporarily either since I don't agree with the consigner BS, and can't really put my faith in it anymore.
I wish everyone who stays good luck(you'll definitely need it), have fun in Istaria. To my guild(they know who they are)I'll be with you in spirit, always. To my sis(she knows who she is)with you in spirit as well. To everyone in Obsidian Order, /hugs. To anyone I forgot, many apologies and a fond farewell to you all.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Landowyn
I can't believe you folks would increase subscription prices for a four-year-old game that was on it's last legs. I was looking around to see if it was April 1. Horizons is deficient in many services that other titles provide, and yet you ask for more money. That is just insane.
I used to have 4 subs paid in 3-month increments. That will not be happening and it doesn't even look like it's possible, so I will probably get 1 grandfathered account and wait a bit to see what happens. That's a loss to Horizons owners of around 42 bucks a month from my end.
To me, this is a completely foolish move. If anything, the price should have been reduced to encourage more people to sign up and get hooked. I am flabbergasted.
Agreed
It just seems like smart business to lower the price and gain new subs VS. an increase in price with a lower chance of gaining subs and a greater chance at running folks off.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Paladin
Agreed
It just seems like smart business to lower the price and gain new subs VS. an increase in price with a lower chance of gaining subs and a greater chance at running folks off.
*ouch Paladin* That bite hurt! *ermm , bite the kitty that is!
I am still trying to figure out which system to go with, am waiting for a response to my post, but, I am returning. Hubby says its worth it to keep me happy. If I can keep both my plots, with dual login, for my two accounts to be merged, at the grandfathered rate, I am definately staying.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peaches
*ouch Paladin* That bite hurt!
I am still trying to figure out which system to go with, am waiting for a response to my post, but, I am returning. Hubby says its worth it to keep me happy. If I can keep both my plots, with dual login, for my two accounts to be merged, at the grandfathered rate, I am definately staying.
It's a love bite Peaches, you know that. ;)
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I think it probably needs to be clarified somewhere in big, bold letters that 10 slots per connie means you can use all your slots on one connie. I didn't realize it meant that till a few days ago and it seems it's still upsetting to some people.
Additionally, I have one more question:
4) I have two accounts right now. I had a third for a while. Would I be able to get all three as grandfathered accounts? (I'm considering this based on the block-pricing decision.)
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I gotta say I'm glad to see things obviously in motion.
However, I am in no way or form giving my cc info or any other financial to Horizons until i see definitive action...(a patch to fix the vista problem or a workaround for example) I can only logon in a miracle situation when Vista has a week moment.....as is the same with many others ive noticed on the forums...
After the whole billing fiasco with EI and the previous owner I honestly cant see how you guys expect the player base to fork up more money before seeing something really done.....In my world you work then get paid for it....
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Thanks to Justa, I know what to do now with my accounts. Thank you so much for the info!
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Ok to explain the merged accounts thinggy
Our accounts are already merged... been that way for years...
Merged means you are using ONE email and you are paying for TWO Subscriptions using the same email address.
The advantages:
You can log any 2 of the 10 character slots (which means Justa and Flatspin can be logged in at the same time)
You get 20 connie slots for any of your 10 characters
You get to own 2 properties (plots / lairs)
The disadvantages:
If you have family members that share your 10 slot accounts, or other non-family members, they have to log using your password. This means if they wanted to log in as mommy and run around they can... this leads to unsecurity when it comes to things on the characters you don't want to end up missing.
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Seems fair to me. And for the folks who are upset at the prices, well, just think of it as inflation, cost of living, exchange rate, market speculation, or some other buzz phrase that states money is worth less over time and that you'll fondly remember in ten years when MMOs *only* cost $15 a month...
I'll probably plunk down for a year just so I don't have to worry about it. :D
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WEll, I gotta say you kinda hit on most of what everyone was asking, though you all seem a little hard up for that extra two bucks a month.
Might I suggest this:
Grandfathered account:
Same features as original account for $12.95, just as you have it.
Account must exist prior to new billing system going live (ie, is not available for new accounts created after it goes live). Limited time availability, after 09/31/2007, new accounts and returning accounts will not have this option. Here's the important part: IS eligible for "Dalimond Buffet" upgrades.
Why? Simple. Gives all the old players with existing accounts a reason to come back and resub NOW, maximizing revenue NOW. It does not penalize them for doing so (this part is important, pay attention please). Let me say that again: IT DOES NOT PENALIZE THEM FOR DOING SO!!!
The Dalimond Buffet options need a plot entry as well. Looks like you completely forgot about it, even as a maybe.
The block purchases have no discounts. They should. Everyone and their mom offers at least a price break on purchasing more than a month in advance. The more you buy, the bigger the discount. Hell, LoTRO gave people LIFETIME subscriptions for $199.00, which isn't much more than what you are saying you want for just ONE YEAR of HZ. That kinda telegraphs the notion you don't expect to be around for a long time. Try giving at least a 5% discount for 6 months and a 10% discount for 12 months (most games give more, but I know you all are hungry, so...).
Outside of those things, nail down the rest of the Dalimond Buffet options, and call it golden.
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Re: The New Subscription Model
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Justa Mirage
Ok to explain the merged accounts thinggy
Our accounts are already merged... been that way for years...
Merged means you are using ONE email and you are paying for TWO Subscriptions using the same email address.
The advantages:
You can log any 2 of the 10 character slots (which means Justa and Flatspin can be logged in at the same time)
You get 20 connie slots for any of your 10 characters
You get to own 2 properties (plots / lairs)
The disadvantages:
If you have family members that share your 10 slot accounts, or other non-family members, they have to log using your password. This means if they wanted to log in as mommy and run around they can... this leads to unsecurity when it comes to things on the characters you don't want to end up missing.
On a side note to this... I know in the past you could set up a sort of Secondary account to your main account... This way you could share your character slots with other folks without having to give up your username and password to anyone. I set up one for my son and one for a friend of mine while TG was still in ownership of the game.
I don't know if it is still possible to do this or not, as I haven't tried to create any of these in like 1.5 years.. but the option used to be available for those that were looking for it.