Thoughts on Handwrap damage and Monk schools in general....
Greetings Folks!
Just some random thoughts about weapon damage since we were discussing it in Monk Issues. This is not intended for IMMEDIATE use, but for historical purposes when rebalancing does happen. I hope that this provides some additional insights that might help in planning.
Here's a brief breakdown of some common weapons and their delays.
WEAPON - Level
Damage
Delay
DPS (est)
Handwraps - 91 (TWO handed)
44-70
22
2-3
Fine Dagger - 90 (One handed)
31-49
20
1.5-2.45
Fine Mace - 90 (One handed)
99-119
34
1.76-2
Fine Staff - 90 (TWO handed)
99-119
46
2.1-2.6
*Note that with Daggers and maces the user also has the possibility of using Shields.
We can see that Handwraps numerically should lead the way, even compared to the Fine Staff, a 2 hand crush. However the problem comes in a few places:
1. Armour reduction: Armour is SUPPOSED (as per previous posts by devs) to be Weapon Delay adjusted... Meaning that faster weapons are affected LESS by armour. HOWEVER, there is something wrong with that mentality because there is still a thresh-hold to make before damage starts on monsters. Because of our relatively low damage this thresh-hold is taken off of EACH hit, and our speed doesn't make up for the per hit reduction.
2. Damage shields - Cloak of Thorns, Quills, Pulsing Spectrum... these hit us for the same amount if the damage we do is 10, or 10,000 HP. Because of our lower damage it will take us a LOT more hits (AND TIME, where we are being hit) to kill the same monster. So we end up taking 3-4 times the damage that a weapon wielder would take from these.
3. Percentage based attacks and Styles, for example, Crit and Flurries. Since these are percentage they really don't 'translate' well for low delay low damage weapons. Chains, smashes, and Stone Hammer work GREAT. They are damage ADD. However if we try a crit, which is percentage based, a mace might do up to around 600, a fist will do around 250.
Flurries are even a worse deal as they add MORE attacks, but each one takes a much higher damage 'penalty'. I NEVER used flurry as a Disciple within about 10-15 levels of getting a new level of flurry because my damage drop would reduce my per attack damage from a flurry, even if all landed was slightly better than or in my first few flurries, WORSE than a normal hit, even if all of them landed (See related problem #1).
4. Alacrity/speed buffs. I know that it's been thrown around that delay is supposed to be reducable to 1 second (or 10 delay), but from MY experimentation, it really makes not much of a difference once you get to 20 delay. Meanwhile, there is a MAJOR gain on the heavier weapons like a 2 handed staff. Compare our delay gain of 11.5 delay for a 2 Staff, to a total delay of 34.5, pushing a staff DPS to around 2.87-3.45. With handwraps, we see no real benefit due to a cap on the speed.
Woo Hoo!!! Additional Testing by Grem, our very own Gnomian harasser, on an unwilling Blighted portal has shown that the speed cap has been removed! Grem even wore out the portal's Pulsing Spectrum in his hours of exhaustive testing. :D Kudos!
5. Delay Adjusted Damage bonuses. Well these are obvious. A Dark Garnet Weapon Crystal will bump a staff by around 5 pts of damage... a handwrap...2. Same with our Amulet of the Disciples. To be TRUELY a useful amulet for a monk, it SHOULD be a damage ADD. As is, these just push the disparity in damage from #1 and #4 even higher.
I LIKE the idea of monks and disciples. I see a place for them in the world if a few tweeks were made. I often envision them as the Always dangerous (even when holding a bucket at a well hehe), fast hitting, accurate, and evasive. I don't know if this is the vision that Tulga has for them or not, but that's how *I* see them. That we can choose different Disciplehoods just adds that much MORE flavour to them. To achieve that, currently, there are a some problems remaining with this vision due to the mechanics of the game. I don't know if they will ever be fixed, but as I see it here are a few:
1. Evasiveness:
EDIT: I was incorrect. It is 10 evasion for Monks and Disciples except for FlameD's.
Disciples get the SAME evasion (9) as any other fighter class, warrior or cleric in full PLATE. Monks get 1 more. Granted we get things like Evasive Style, but the only thing we get that really helps is Flow Like Water, where we can approach the dodging of a Spider for a few moments. Perhaps more passive evasion bonuses? Cap on max evasion of heavier armours? This would put some REAL thought balancing damage reduction VS damage avoidance.
2. Fast hitting: See above. We aren't really all that dangerous. :) I run across a Blight or Lem and I giggle. My success against mobs comes primarily from multiclassing and tactics.
-HratLi
EDIT: DISCLAIMER! The trading of speed for damage makes PERFECT sense for SPIRIT disciples. Consult your inner voice and your Sifu before doing it. My fists are based off of damage done. It makes little or no sense for Flame or Storm D's. Flamies do their fist damage PER HIT, irreguardless of the damge done on that hit. Stormies stun based on percentage of their hits. So more they hit, the more they stun and less they get hit. Ice D's it will help since their slows debuff the mobs and they stay debuffed long enough between hits.
Originally Posted by evilkarl
