Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 75

Thread: the random system needs to be replaced

  1. #1

    Angry the random system needs to be replaced

    ok call it what you want but the random system is just completely unfair. everyone says it is fair but IMO it is completely unfair. let me explain why

    1) first and foremost why should a biped be able to loot things they can't even use? i.e. pieces of valkor's talon, the demon claw, pieces of reklar's tail scale. that should not even be an option. you say it is so people can trade and this and that. what really happens is you get the same group of people who already have have all the weapons and pieces and they are hunting him for other people that dont even show up at the hunts.

    while the other people who sit there and hunt the boss's and never win due to the fact that they always roll a lower number. let me explain a little further

    i have been hunting Son of Gigaroth pretty regularly. i have seen the demon claw in the loot window at least 3 times and each time i end up rolling a 30 or less. a biped wins the claw and gives it to someone that wasn't even there hunting him.......and you think this is fair in which way........and if you do please explain how someone that doesn't hunt the mob gets the loot. the same thing goes for biped stuff.

    why should a dragon have all the pieces and formulas for for a weapon they can't even make the weapon. thats not fair to the people that sit there and hunt these mobs over and over just to lose to a dragon that wont trade the piece until he gets what he wants


    2) why not try something new on blight for a few weeks. why not get rid of the whole random system period and go with something that is completely fair to everyone.

    work on a system that is still random for the drops depending on who is involved in the hunt. again let me explain

    you have a group of 5 people. 2 dragons, 2 druids, and lets say a warrior.
    we are hunting Son of Gigaroth. we finally kill him and instead of him having the weapons on him make it to where the weapons fall into someones inventory. you all have a random chance at it. if it is a biped weapon then the chance of 1 of the 3 bipeds in the group is split up between them. if it is the demon claw then the chance is split up between the 2 dragons. and so on for who is in the group.

    at least this way the people that are there hunting him will have a chance for getting a reward for hunting him. i have been on alot of boss hunts recently. valkor, daknor, reklar, SoG, and fafnir, and the funny thing is my highest roll in my last 5 hunts was in the 50's. what is even worse my last 3 rolls havent gone above 8. but yet you have people that will roll a 97 and then turn right around and roll a 100.

    my appologies for anyone this may have offended and it's purpose was not to flame anyone or anything but the random sytem in place. i just find it to be completely unfair to the people that spend the time and the death points day in and day out to try and get one of the uber weapons to lose it to someone that can't even use it.

    ok im done

  2. #2

    Default

    My suggestion (which doesn't involve changing game mechanics) is that you get an agreement with the people you're hunting with before the end of the battle. Agree that only dragons at the hunt will random for dragon drops and only bipeds at the hunt will random for biped drops. What they do at that point is up to them. If people aren't willing to work with you, maybe there are more reasonable groups you could hunt with? I think the most important thing for any hunt to run smoothly is to agree up front how the looting is going to be handled. It saves hurt feelings at the end if you know what to expect in the first place.

  3. #3
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Chaos Ranger, 2100 crafting levels
    Posts
    1,701

    Default

    I smell sour grapes Sir. It is not the fault of those your hunting with that the random number generator falls in their favor more than it does your. nor is it Tulga's fault. Perhaps you'd be best served to negotiate with those in your hunting party for the item in question... or failing that... find someone else to hunt with if you dont like the way the loot is randomed or distributed. I"m sorry that you find that absolute chance doesn't favor you. What your asking for is the PTBs to weight the system in your favor, and frankly that reeks.
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


    ADV: Centenarian Nature Walker; Rating: 162
    Craft: 1900 levels; Craft Rating: 234
    DRGN: Lunus, Adult, 100 DRAG, 100 DCRA, 100 DLSH, Expert Lairshaper (Chaos-04)

    No, try not! Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

    If the enemy presents an opportunity, take advantage of it - Sun Tzu

    Having problems with my right to speak? Report me or click here *Ignore Seranthor*

  4. #4

    Default

    The problem with that, is if you get a group agreed that only biped roll on biped stuff, then the next group refuses to agree and gets a dragon piece that ends up with bipeds.. Its not consistant and you can't enforce a rule on a shard.
    If there is a bug with /random it needs to be fixed. Changing the method in which items random will only lead to more bugginess with randoming and people ending up with less. I rarely win randoms (twice so far), and I do see some people winning over and over and over in the same time.

  5. #5

    Default

    Yes I was really surpised in the first hunt I when on here and everyone was randoming for a biped item. Me I did not roll as I was use to the fact need not greed got to roll. I would have people give up rolls on other items that they could use with that toon for a rool on somthing else for an alt but that was it.
    Last edited by Deth; April 21st, 2006 at 06:54 PM.



  6. #6

    Default

    As far as the random goes I think its fair. If your a biped and roll on a draggie item and win then you can trade it to a draggie that won a biped item. I mean you just admitted it was tough to win a roll in the first place so why not? I mean that should be an easy trade, but not the other way around. After all there is only one draggie item, but then again maybe we have alts.....

    Jayne

  7. #7

    Default

    like i said im not bashing how people hunt the bosses. under the current system the random way IS the best way. i just dont think it's the fairest way. the last 2 times the demon claw has dropped the same biped has won it due to the random system. how is that remotely fair. and if it is the only draggy item the drops i think only dragons should have the right to loot it. and if one of your alts wants the weapon then level him up just like everyone else did and hunt the boss with your alt.

    everyone that i hunt with is very nice and very caring and i know that someday someone will probably end up giving me one of the weapons or scales. i just dont like that. i dont want the item to be given to me. i want it as a reward for hunting him. i feel that the random system isnt the best way go about handing out these new hides, weapons or pieces. it should be a random chance to land in your inventory

  8. #8
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Chaos Ranger, 2100 crafting levels
    Posts
    1,701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_wyrm
    like i said im not bashing how people hunt the bosses. under the current system the random way IS the best way. i just dont think it's the fairest way. the last 2 times the demon claw has dropped the same biped has won it due to the random system. how is that remotely fair. and if it is the only draggy item the drops i think only dragons should have the right to loot it. and if one of your alts wants the weapon then level him up just like everyone else did and hunt the boss with your alt.

    everyone that i hunt with is very nice and very caring and i know that someday someone will probably end up giving me one of the weapons or scales. i just dont like that. i dont want the item to be given to me. i want it as a reward for hunting him. i feel that the random system isnt the best way go about handing out these new hides, weapons or pieces. it should be a random chance to land in your inventory
    Sir, you claim to 'not want the item to be given to me'... yet you are opposed to the fairest way there is to distribute the spoils of a kill in favor of a system that is heavily weighted in your favor. How do you explain that? What precisely is unfair about 5 people killing a mob and relying on the random number generator to select who wins the loot? Would you be as opposed to the current method if the loot was a sandstone slab instead of something that you so desperately covet? Would you be so ready to toss out the current method if you had been the repeated winner of some biped only item that you could trade/sell for a large cash sum, I think not, but, what say you Sir?
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


    ADV: Centenarian Nature Walker; Rating: 162
    Craft: 1900 levels; Craft Rating: 234
    DRGN: Lunus, Adult, 100 DRAG, 100 DCRA, 100 DLSH, Expert Lairshaper (Chaos-04)

    No, try not! Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

    If the enemy presents an opportunity, take advantage of it - Sun Tzu

    Having problems with my right to speak? Report me or click here *Ignore Seranthor*

  9. #9

    Default

    I think the random system works. While sometime I win, other times I don't. I don't its the perfect system, however it works. I would rather see the devs work on other projects than to redo the loot system.

    Rocinante

  10. #10

    Default

    Yea? What if the demon claw was won by the same dragon more then once? I think the same complaint would apply if you are not the one thats winning it.

    The winner has the right to do what they will with the piece/item. Yes, some would give it to another at the hunt and some won't but thats there decision.

    I know its frustrating when you don't win, but its random luck.

    Now I do have issues with problems that have arisen due to the inconsistancy of how these drops work in general, but it has nothing to do with the random itself, so I'll save that for another discussion.

    Jayne

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocinante
    I think the random system works. While sometime I win, other times I don't. I don't its the perfect system, however it works. I would rather see the devs work on other projects than to redo the loot system.

    Rocinante
    Couldn't have said it better myself. The only change that I could actually see making sense is to have a button that automagically does the random for each group member for each piece of loot and divvies it up on it's own. Until people start abusing the /random checks I don't see that as necessary though.

  12. #12

    Default

    I dunno how random this random generator is :/ trying making a hotkey and clicking it a few times fast the numbers roughly the same.

    But a randoms a random and it does appear to be sour grapes.

    Lets take for instance that the system was changed.

    reklar and valkor drop more biped weapons / items then they do dragon.

    valkor has 3 biped weapon - sword, bow, staff and 1 dragon - claw
    reklar has 3 biped items - shield, sash, cudgel and 1 dragon - tail scale

    So your putting yourself at a stupid disadvantage to start with.


    Frustrating trying to get one yeah and my first and only sog kill dropped a demon claw but i lost.. had to buy mine from pj for 12g. Fun items to set your mind to acquire but i really don't think they turn you into super dragon (though i think that blood sword does to a biped not sure).

    Better ways to do it like have the game give each player their own loot table with chances based on the fight attendance etc or have the uber drops a really low chance on high rating demon monsters... that way the weapons aren't on a specific monster that is targeted kept secret.

    Maybe have the formulas for construction and 1 of the 5 pieces on valkor / reklar then the rest out off monsters with a low drop chance.. does the same thing i think without tying people into a timed boss. Works ok to an extent now but if the player base increases imagine 60 people knocking on valkors door telling him to get out of bed... ugly. Biggest i have seen is around 20 people and that was alot.

    In the end it isn't going to matter... you'll always have some situation whether its brought about by player aggression / greed whatever where someone is going to have the shats. But it would be nice for a dev comment on the whole loot thing feels like being ignored .

  13. #13
    Member Vlisson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Germany / Bavaria
    Posts
    2,550

    Default

    why should a hunting group decide only to roll on items they can use?

    is a spiritist allowed to roll if Sog Drops the demon flurry bow?

    Take what you get per random and try to trade with another player to get the part/item you want.

    i dont like the random too, because there are a lot of hunts and you get nothing at all, but its the fairest way!

    Only if you manage to group every hunt with the same players you could make an individual arrangement (which would be much more fair i think)

  14. #14

    Default

    I dont think its a good idea at all to limit what you can random on, i myself have worked for about 2ish months (i think) to trade / win all the parts i needed, the first weapon i managed to complete was the staff.. and im a dragon, Now, i have all 4 Blood weapons and im quite proud of that

    Did i random for biped items? I sure did, did bipeds random for dragon items? They sure did. Did we trade for what we each needed? Yup. So i see no real need to change anything, yes it can be very frustrating sometimes, but it is random, so sooner or later you will get what you want.
    Last edited by Zippo; April 22nd, 2006 at 11:05 AM.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alladania
    My suggestion (which doesn't involve changing game mechanics) is that you get an agreement with the people you're hunting with before the end of the battle. Agree that only dragons at the hunt will random for dragon drops and only bipeds at the hunt will random for biped drops.
    I had many hunts were i was the only of each kind. F.ex. a group of bipeds needs a dragon at reklar-hunts, so i logged my Ancient. Not sure if those 9 bipeds won't growl if me as only dragon gets the loot automatically.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_wyrm
    ok call it what you want but the random system is just completely unfair. everyone says it is fair but IMO it is completely unfair. let me explain why
    I really know how you feel - had that sentiment for some time too. But that changed lately, let me explain why.

    At 22.Feb.2006 i started writing a list about all the hunts i did on our "Big 3" (Reklar, SoG, Valkor) - mainly as i had the feeling that only the others win, but also as i wanted to trace killtimes and loot for possible trades.
    By that time i really felt sour and thought about stopping to join those hunts.

    Just recently - after 2 months - i had 2 paper-lists filled and did a bit of statistics. Here is the numbers

    Amount of hunts in 2 months (22.02.-20.04.): 107
    My won Randoms : 20
    Average peoples in group : 5,65

    What do those numbers tell us?
    That my luck is absolutely average (20 x 5,65 = 113)... and that i just had to wait a bit for it to happen. End of march i won 5 randoms in a row, which surely made me stop whining about some players winning all the time.

    Statistics always need large numbers to be verified - so let it happen!

  17. #17

    Default

    I'm going to agree with shadow-wurm, and here's why :

    It's very nice that we can trust the other people that we play with, and that we can use /random to decide who the spoils of war goes to. But at the end of the day, if players start looting and running, then there's nothing the other players can actually do against him, except for isolating him from the rest of the community.

    Given the small numbers of players, that's a very effective way of dealing with someone, and so people respect the /randoms. But if Horizons does carry on increasing it's player base, then eventually it's going to be hard or impossible from making sure everyone else knows exactly who cheated someone else, and when. If this happens then the /random system will in all probability break down.

    I don't think it's something that urgently needs fixing; but I do think a more concrete version has to be made, somewhere down the line.

  18. #18

    Default

    Theres only one thing you need to do if someone ran off with the piece, send in a ticket and the log.

    Jayne

  19. #19

    Default

    You realize that what you are asking for will make it possible for people to autofarm not only cash, but items? If you are in a group by yourself and use the /random autosplit command proposed here, then you will get all the loot. Unlike the current system, this idea can be macroed. For that reason if no other, this proposal gets a 'Nay' as far as I'm concerned.

    No rewards for AFK macroing!
    Klaus Wulfenbach
    Mithril Council, Chaos
    "Death is fleeting. Pride is forever."


    "Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."-- Abraham Lincoln

  20. #20

    Default

    Theres only one thing you need to do if someone ran off with the piece, send in a ticket and the log.

    Jayne
    Well, I'd be truly amazed if TG took the item from them as a result.

    You realize that what you are asking for will make it possible for people to autofarm not only cash, but items? If you are in a group by yourself and use the /random autosplit command proposed here, then you will get all the loot. Unlike the current system, this idea can be macroed. For that reason if no other, this proposal gets a 'Nay' as far as I'm concerned.

    No rewards for AFK macroing!
    No, it doesn't have to be that way. Firstly, I *really* doubt a bot could hunt any of the named mobs with proficiency. But assuming that wasn't the case, the loot drops could work like the daknor hides originally did. People could get their own personalised loot windows, with an named item drop not being a guarantee.

    I don't know why TG changed the way that the daknor drops worked - my suspicions are that it was because people were relogging with other characters so they could loot him twice.

    But yeah, any changes should not make using macros or bots any more viable, and preferably less-so.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •