Talk to the team: Loot Revamp Part 2

[Amarie Ancalimon]

Earlier this week we introduced the first patch in the series of changes that will be part of our loot revamp. About a month ago we'd posted a "Talk to the Team" about the loot revamp where we asked for your feedback techniques, and from that feedback we determined that most players would expect the techniques to drop from WA and Undead categories of mobs, and the animal/insect/elemental would be the least likely to. And we agreed.

As was said before, one of the primary reasons for undertaking a project as massive as a loot revamp in the first place was from years of feedback we've heard from players who felt that there was little rhyme or reason to the loot system. Some items were extremely difficult to attain, some were way too easy. And there was little (if any) predictability to what would drop what beyond knowing that most "animal, insect, elemental" type mobs dropped trophies. And even then some monsters were "better" for trophy hunting than others. A newer player, or even one inexperienced with hunting at a particular level range, had no way of knowing if he were wasting hours hunting grulets at T3 hoping for a great trophy haul because back at T1 grulets gave great trophy hauls.

From all this feedback, a redesign of the loot system was created that would address these concerns and those of the design team itself. And though the many goals aren't the scope of this particular "Talk to the Team" request, one area of concern from players has been raised when the patch was released yesterday that we do want to ask for feedback on.

The removal of technique components as future dropped items from Withered Aegis and Undead categories of monsters has upset many of our long term players. And while we are not going to change the plan and add technique components to those categories of monsters because doing so would defeat much of the purpose of the loot revamp in the first place, and put us right back where we started in many ways, we would like to talk about ways in which we could address the concerns raised.

For the most part we have heard two areas of concern. The first is regarding what will happen to existing instances of current stores of what are now obsolete technique components. Some of how to address this concern depends on what is decided about the second area, so we've put that on hold for now as to the best way to move forward. But please know that we have heard this concern and do have some potential ideas for how to address it.

So this particular "Talk to the Team" will focus on the second area of concern...that being the feeling of accomplishment, and the usefulness, of having repeatedly met the challenge of fighting against the Withered Aegis and undead categories of mobs. Under the design that is in testing on Blight now, these categories of monsters will drop:
Undead:

Formulas (those not sold on vendors)
Techniques (those not sold on vendors)
Coin value only items

Aegis:

Formulas (those not sold on vendors)
Techniques (those not sold on vendors)
Hoardables
Blighted Gear/Formulas
Crystals

So here's the questions:

1) What other types of looted items would you find useful that also would "make sense" to drop from these categories of monster?
For example, broken items that would need to be combined to create new gear? If so, what sort of gear would be of use, especially to veteran players?

2) What other types of consumables would be of value that could drop from these categories of monsters?
For example, if WA/undead dropped items that would be consumed when using a potion, would that be of use to players?

3) Would the introduction of more complete lines of craftable blighted gear be of use to players? How frequently do you use crafted blighted gear presently?

[Shian]

For example, broken items that would need to be combined to create new gear? If so, what sort of gear would be of use, especially to veteran players?

The shattered/broken bits and pieces that have been sitting in my vault waiting for the match? :D I think that qualifies as useful to vets. I'd love to see something like this where we need to find pieces of a nice bit of gear and put it together, but something that requires a small group or even solo.

3) Would the introduction of more complete lines of craftable blighted gear be of use to players? How frequently do you use crafted blighted gear presently?

YES PLEASE! I love crafting blighted gear.

[Dakoren Ironhand]

What other types of looted items would you find useful that also would "make sense" to drop from these categories of monster?
For example, broken items that would need to be combined to create new gear? If so, what sort of gear would be of use, especially to veteran players?

How about some 'end game gear'? We know the design team has been working on some awesome new armors and we've seen some results of it (http://www.crimson-dawn.org/forum/ga...abd690cdf0.jpg). How about making some of such looking gear endgame gear? And add some stats to it that are just above the regular techs.

Of course these pieces would be quite rare and hard to make.

[Holth]

1. There is so much potential here!

Bring back the pieces and formulas for the regal weapons, the formulas for Thundercloud and xGenerate Health, tech forms for Primal Vengeance, Emminence, Vital Defiance, Primal Flash, Spirit Webbing, (there's more that I can't recall) formulas for the silver whistle and reeds, formula for spirit oil, some of the old ardent, sugent, shimmering spectrum, ect crystals...for these to be gone forever is such a shame.

If you want to introduce new gear, I would like to see forms and TRADEABLE set pieces to combine like the old regal weapons but make them for lvl 80 so they are consistant with the level of mob being hunted and they don't compete with the epic weapons from SOG and Valkor. I would love to see new armour, either pieces that get combined to make a set or forms that give us new armour styles. And I'm sure dragons would love the same for claws and scales.

I would absolutely love to see rare books (or pages that combine into books) of Istarian lore drop as loot. There is so much lore that has been lost over the years or that you only get to read once when you do a quest. Maybe building a world library in one of the cities where these books can be stored for all to read would give everyone a sense of working together similar to world projects.

2. Potions for energy resistance, blight resistance, flame resistance would help when fighting Satyr Island mobs. I realize they already drop consumable crystals with these effects so this may be redundant. A higher level Withered Bane tech, a consumable that gives you +50 to a skill (bow, nature, spirit etc) for x amount of minutes, a quest to slay x number of a certain mob that gives you a permanent boost to killing that specific mob.

3. I do not use blighted equipment nor do I craft it. I dislike the idea of charges that deplete and having to carry recharge kits for equipment.

Thaalia of Order

[Spirit Twister]

1) Broken items that will need to be assembled sounds good. Similar to the old regal weapons.
Weapons, jewelry and armor preferably.

Tech-kit forms similar to the dragon tech-kits (Deadly, Battleforged and so on), but for Bipeds, and where one or several of the pieces needed would be dropped by the WA.

2) Items that would give a short-time boost to a skill when consumed, or used for creating some potion or scroll wouldn't be amiss. I know there are figurines and what not that gives random results, but I never use those. Especially when in battle since I don't like the thought of suddenly having 10 hp when fighting tier 5 critters.....

3) Never bothered with Blighted item creation. I use the occasional cape, jewelry or weapon piece if and when I have them and the situation may warrant it, but never make them.
Can't be bothered to recharge them either, so after use I delete them, or decon them if I can get mith bars or marble bricks out of it.
I never use visible armor pieces as they disrupt the rest of the look. Yes, I care about how I look! ;-)

/Irramor, Chaos

[C`gan]

So here's the questions:

1) What other types of looted items would you find useful that also would "make sense" to drop from these categories of monster?
For example, broken items that would need to be combined to create new gear? If so, what sort of gear would be of use, especially to veteran players?

Let's not forget about tools. I've seen quite a bit of blighted stuff for armors and weapons, but not so much anything about tools, be they just refurbished, normal, blighted, or even teched. I could see them on undead.

2) What other types of consumables would be of value that could drop from these categories of monsters?
For example, if WA/undead dropped items that would be consumed when using a potion, would that be of use to players?

When using a potion or making a potion? It seems odd that something else would be consumed when using a potion. Personally, I think this sort of ingredients list would be good for making potions (rather than, say, mining picks or chisels, or what have you) for crafting.

3) Would the introduction of more complete lines of craftable blighted gear be of use to players? How frequently do you use crafted blighted gear presently?

I don't know much about blighted gear. I don't use it, whether looted or crafted, usually.

[awdz]

With scrolls coming out that will allow us to recall to predetermined locations, what about the Withered Aegis dropping scrolls allowing the bearer to port into a blighted location (one of the blighted dungeons? one of the "blight light" circles? one of the blighted fortresses?) from wherever they may be?

[Fyrethorne]

I think it's important to keep the link between high level craft and high level adventure.

What about epic craftable items that need 1-2 rare resources. The form could be rare and drop from undead. Then require a component that only drops from the Aegis. You could work it into the Istarian storyline/ lore as a rare item that is deadly to Aegis troops, that the WA are trying to hide from the gifted....hence why the form and rare component only drops from the WA.

What about bringing back rare resources like Elnathian silver that might be required to make an epic item? Naturally the WA would be guarding such a rare resource. It could be an epic craft tool or weapon that requires said resource to make it, and then maybe further resources to power it? You said in another post you are slowly trying to implement T6/ epic stuff into the game. This could be one way to do it.

This will create a purpose for high level adventurers, and make some of the high lvl crafting difficult, which I think it should be. If everything is so easy at the higher levels, then where is the challenge?

I also like Thaalia's ideas. If we are going to change the loot system, lets put something that's twice as exciting in place to keep both crafters and adventurers interested.

[Dracaena]

1) I am not so good with specific ideas of what loot, though the suggestions of bringing back some of the no longer available techs, broken weapons, and crystals sound good. I would more like to say what is needed is that sense of accomplishment that you had a good run that night in the blight. Bringing back extra comps that weren't necessarily what I went looking for was good in that they had value. If I didn't need them I could sell them to others. Formula is too common, many do not even bother to carry it to the pawnbroker. This isn't like it was at shard merger when t5 was new and everyone was desperate to get forms. I would guess there is a year's worth of form stockpiles in all those guild houses and libraries to be used up for forms to be worth much. I used to hate going to satyr islands, it took me some time to learn how to hunt out there and I came to enjoy going. I got a kick out of vex hunting, but I wouldn't go vex hunting if all there is to find is another duplicate crystal and duplicate forms. Give me something to make vex hunting (and all the rest) fun.

2) I rarely use potions and my dragon would be suspicious of consuming something plucked from the body of a blighted undead. Not to say it is a bad idea, I just have trouble imagining my dragon using what your example is suggesting.

3) I do like to play around with blighted gear crafting now and then. But the bigger draw for me would be if creating more forms would make more of the blighted gear drops deconable. I do like recovering the bricks and bars for craft use from deconning. The blighted gear can be useful for players just getting into a new armor bracket and not yet able to get all the comps for crafted gear. I know I wore blighted scales for a time when I was in that situation.


Dracaena

[Shinkuu]

1) I am not a Vet so I cannot answer this.

2) Having the WA drop something like an essence fragment that would give the user temporary stat boosts based on the class of the WA could be interesting. If the WA was a Warrior for example the boost could be to Strength and HP if they were a Mage it would be to Power and Focus as examples. However these items would come with the downside that they contain some Blight in them and consuming too many within a certain time period would cause you to suffer effects similar to a Poison and the Death Penalty effect. So while they would help in battle you need to be careful how much you use or risk becoming like the WA yourself.

3) I do not really think that would be that great. I for one never use crafted Blight gear and rarely use dropped Blight gear. I only know one person who has bothered to make any Blight gear for themselves. It may be that it is too random and difficult to make or it may just be that many do not want to use the rotted things of the Enemy.

[Uther Blade]

What about bringing back rare resources like Elnathian silver that might be required to make an epic item? Naturally the WA would be guarding such a rare resource. It could be an epic craft tool or weapon that requires said resource to make it, and then maybe further resources to power it? You said in another post you are slowly trying to implement T6/ epic stuff into the game. This could be one way to do it.

This will create a purpose for high level adventurers, and make some of the high lvl crafting difficult, which I think it should be. If everything is so easy at the higher levels, then where is the challenge?

If you want to introduce new gear, I would like to see forms and TRADEABLE set pieces to combine like the old regal weapons but make them for lvl 80 so they are consistant with the level of mob being hunted and they don't compete with the epic weapons from SOG and Valkor. I would love to see new armour, either pieces that get combined to make a set or forms that give us new armour styles. And I'm sure dragons would love the same for claws and scales.

So, weapons and tools that are in pieces, (like with Valkor), but lvl appropriate.. that are bound together with the silvers for the Saytr Isles.

How about adding a form that is long lost to the world.. that gives Dragons the ability to create crystals that can be placed in sockets or consumed. These would be created with Azulyte.

[Andaras]

1: Non-blighted gear would be useful. More items that can be repaired and crafted off the Epic mobs,
such as Reklar's Sash, Valkor's Sword and other items. Master or Expert level repair forms for said items.
Bring back the bits + pieces, these items were across all teirs of Adventuring. (Do Not bring back the
repair formulae for these, as IMO it would be an incentive for the Elder players to remain/come back)

2: Dropped consumables from Undead?
- Soul Fragments,
- Blighted Essence (for Ambrosia),
- Potions(?) - only if their efficacy is reduced by a %.
- As Awdz said, Scrolls to blighted destinations would be cool.
- Rare Confectioner recipes? I am sure there must be some Undead out there that would like a Heap of
Jayne's Paincakes. *grins*

3: My personal belief is that no citizen in the Empire would ever wish to use blighted gear. It's only use is for
study and research purposes. (Gifted cannot, repeat cannot turn into Undead/Vampires but they can be weakened by exposure to the Blight)

Andaras

[Ry]

1. Items
Epic one handed weapons - mace/warhammer, one hand sword. something like the deamon spear. Could be made from pieces

Mask of the (race)- cloth armour, usable when equiped (and attunes) to grant that races activatable ability. long, shared reuse timer, possibly made from collected tradable parts.

emblem of the (school) attunes. usable by (school). When equiped reduces adventure rating to current adventure school lvl. Reduces non (school) skills to zero.

2. Consumables
tomes/books that are used(consumed) made from collected tradable pages. NPC assembles tome/book if you have all required pages. attunes.
when used grants a perminant passive ability. Ability replaced by higher tier versions. Some class specific. Possible effects could be stats (str ,pow etc) skills (bow, shield etc) or base armour.
example lvl 20 +10 to health . usable by all. lvl 40 +20 to health etc
example lvl 20 +1% to base bow skill. usable by scout, ranger, elemental archer. Lvl 40 +2 % and so on.

[awdz]

1. Items
emblem of the (school) attunes. usable by (school). When equiped reduces adventure rating to current adventure school lvl. Reduces non (school) skills to zero.

I really like this idea - give someone already with high classes the chance to level up a different class on their known character by really experiencing/learning how the class works.

[Guaran]

1) You could improve the existing loot we have so that it is desirable: Weapon crystals, increase % chance of landing the effect by double the current chance. Increase the EXP when consumed to almost an adventure/craft level, but also make them a rarer drop-> Boom crystals are worth something finally. (As they are now the value is almost nothing).

Remove all the bad effects on trinkets. Increase the time on the good effects to minimum 30 minutes, max 2 hours depending on the buff. As of now these items are considered trash. Trinkets would need to be WA drops only. Wolves and Gem Golems have no business carrying trinkets around.

Broken items + formulas to repair them sounds good. New items like "Reklar's Talons", Elials Sword, Ryson's ChestGuard, Ryson's Greaves, etc. Could do a full set of armor like this.

Set Piece jewelry-> these items need improved. As they are now no one uses them, yet they are a very rare drop. If whatever is added (the new gear being considered) is along the lines of set piece jewelry, then you are wasting your time. Make a formula that can combine several set-piece jewelry pieces into a new re-forged item with special stats and abilities (Example a health wrist thats normal health amount plus say +30 strength, +30 power, +100 Armor, +10 Dodge, +10 Parry that's made from say 3 of the set-piece jewelry bracelets plus some drop off a WA).

Formulas for craftable Saja's Elixir (we helped her do the research, it's about time she shared the results of the work), Craftable Elixir of Saris Spirit. Increase the length of the potion's duration to 1 hour, non-dispellable.

2) The regular comps they currently drop could be left on. New uses could be found for them. I Still do not understand why a loot revamp has to mean a drastic change in tech comps, why can't a loot revamp happen while leaving the comps as drops from WA as well? Assuming you continue with the change to the techs, then comps could be ingredients in new potions that boost things like adventure skills and crafting skills directly. We already have gathering skill potions, so some other craft skill boosters could be useful. But the adventure skill boosters would be really useful, especially when it is not pitiful. +200 2 Hand Slash skill from a potions made of WA comps, that lasts for 2 hours, non-dispellable. Could be made from 2 comps that drop off WA, plus some normal potion stuff. New formulas could be either random drops or some new quests.

Another consumable idea could be a rare drop off those bioscholars, that can be used to make a potion which grants a %chance to land a random bioscholar ability during attacks. Melee ability such as "Satyr Charge" effect, when using melee skills, and Spell Abilities like "Mind Bullets" when casting spells. The effects would be target effects that kick during the players attacks on the mobs. Since the potion/item are useable by anyone (just level restricted), even a dragon could drink a potion that grants interesting random abilities against mobs. Since it is random, it wouldn't really be overpowered, but could be fun.

In fact, potion could be made that grants say 0.05% chance (very small chance) to cast an epic spell on the mob, like Burning Archer or Shining Blades, useable by anyone. So as a Dragon you could be fighting along and all the sudden Wham! Dark Cyclone comes out of nowhere. The potion would put an effect on the drinker that grants a small % chance to land an epic spell, 2 hour duration, removed after 3 procs occur. 2 hour recycle on drinking it (like food that cannot be re-eaten one after another).

It could also be considered desireable if potions, etc. had new cool spell-like effects to go along with them. Even potions that did nothing more than have a spell (particle) effect, such as a halo of light, deathly shadows (some small random shadows around a player + a slight windy sound effect), Storms of Wrath (ocassional weather effect). Some of these could have interesting role-playing value. Think haloween costumes, but consumable with effects of varied types around the player. Fluff stuff.

3) It would be nice to finish out those blighted formula series. But they will not see much use until they have better effects. Get rid of all the -100 <stat> while leaving the +100 ones. And if you could do something where if it is going to land a skill boost, that it is appropriate to the gear? +50 Two hand Slash on a Shield is useless. Skills that are never used together also land too often on same item. Like a chainmail mask that has +50 two hand slash, +50 Mind. Mind skill shools can't even wear chainmail. Solution to these things: Pre-defined groupings of stats, skills, and other enhances (such as the ethereal armor, flame resistance etc.).

For example: +50 Two hand slash, +75 Strength, +35 Dexterity, as one grouping that can land on jewelry, armor (except shields), and two hand slash weapons. A second filler grouping would also randomly land on the item such as +75 Armor, +75 Ethereal Armor, +35 Flame Resistance. Anytime Armor lands, an equivalent Ethereal Armor value should also land. All the existing gear with +ethereal armor is practically worthless since that armor type is rarely needed, and even when it is this gear has too little to make any difference, and the rest of the randomness on the remaining stats on the item never match the target mob which might require ethereal armor. Always grouping it with the + to Armor can help alleviate this.

So yes, with some inprovements and tweaks, blighted gear, blighted gear formulas could become quite useful and valued. As of now blighted gear is mostly considered trash. The items do slowly decay, all the remaining game mechanics for blighted gear could remain as is and this gear would be valued if you can improve it.

[lightning claw]

The shattered/broken bits and pieces that have been sitting in my vault waiting for the match? :D I think that qualifies as useful to vets. I'd love to see something like this where we need to find pieces of a nice bit of gear and put it together, but something that requires a small group or even solo.


YES PLEASE! I love crafting blighted gear.

I support this totally Now on to the questions


1) What other types of looted items would you find useful that also would "make sense" to drop from these categories of monster?
For example, broken items that would need to be combined to create new gear? If so, what sort of gear would be of use, especially to veteran players?

Drop only shattered pieces of gear once complete can damage a new epic mob


2) What other types of consumables would be of value that could drop from these categories of monsters?
For example, if WA/undead dropped items that would be consumed when using a potion, would that be of use to players? Unclear on this question

3) Would the introduction of more complete lines of craftable blighted gear be of use to players? How frequently do you use crafted blighted gear presently? Only with Valcor the impaler do i use blighted claws

[Shadina]

1) I'm not a veteran player, but wepons that could be assembled might be interesting . Then again, I wouldn't necessarily want to undermine the good PC Blackmitths.

2) Having thought long and hard on this, I think unique components for making potent scrolls would be my pick.

3) I don't use or make Blighted Gear, but I'd imagine those that do would apprecite more complete sets.

[Xarog]

1) What other types of looted items would you find useful that also would "make sense" to drop from these categories of monster?
For example, broken items that would need to be combined to create new gear? If so, what sort of gear would be of use, especially to veteran players?

I like the idea of "broken" items that players have to combine in order to get a complete item.

I also think that if done properly that such items will go a large way towards rejuvinating the economy. Instead of just having 4 set pieces to an item and a recipe (like the reklar weapons), why not elaborate on it a little?

You could firstly have a recipe for a "base item", which is lootable. Let's say you find a tier 5 helmet formula. It requires 200 mithril bars and 10 adamantium bars. Once you make the helmet, it's still considered a "resource" by the game. Now, to finish the helmet you could need to find a couple of items, for example a rare crystal (various types, each giving different bonuses), a particular type of socket for the crystal (helmet socket or breastplate socket) AND a recipe for combining the socket and the crystal.

Once you have a crystal in a socket, you can drag the socket with the crystal in it onto the helm as one does with a tech kit, and that would turn it into a new helmet with a given set of bonuses.

It could even be that the crystals are found not on mobs, but as a very rare bonus resource in resource nodes. Maybe if someone pounds away at peridot for half a day they find one of these crystals. That way crafters would also be able to participate in the new economy without feeling left out because its all adventurer based.

If there were different crystals (as a theoretical example, one boosts melee damage by 10%, another one boosts ranged damage by 10%, and yet a different one increases spell damage by 10%), then people could decide to design new items that would benefit the way they like to play the game. It would also encourage people to trade the crystals they don't want for crystals they do want.

It could also be that there would be "broken" crafting gear. Maybe you could make a mining pick which reduces delay and thus makes it possible for people to mine faster.

This idea could be applied to spells as well. Let's say that you could find 10 pieces of paper upon which a single spell is written. Once you have all 10 pieces you recite the spell (the pieces of paper are consumed as part of the spell). This new spell creates a tech kit which can be dragged onto a spell and gives a unique and unusual buff to the spell its added to. Perhaps it could give a spirit bolt a 5% chance of stunning a mob for 15 seconds. It could also be that the spell doesn't create a tech kit, but a random epic level spell. How about a spell which gives +40 speed to everyone within a range of 20 meters for 4 minutes and has a 30 minute cooldown?

2) What other types of consumables would be of value that could drop from these categories of monsters?
For example, if WA/undead dropped items that would be consumed when using a potion, would that be of use to players?

I think such consumables would be a neat idea.

Maybe WA could drop essence of blight every now and again, and such essences can be purified via a new formula into a power source. And maybe that power source could be fuel for casting some really interesting spells (like the AoE speed boost I described earlier).

3) Would the introduction of more complete lines of craftable blighted gear be of use to players? How frequently do you use crafted blighted gear presently?

I don't use blighted gear at all. I don't like having to worry about recrafting a set of equipment when the results of crafting is random. But I also know that the items have the potential to be far more powerful than standard gear if you have the patience to collect a "proper" set. I know some people who've made 100s of scales so that they get just the right combination of buffs. I'm sure people who use blighted equipment would love to have more freedom when it comes to choose the type of base items they want to use for blighted recipes.