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Thread: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

  1. #1

    Default Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    In our on-going work to improve the game for players and to reduce the barrier-to-entry (that is, the learning curve and the difficulty of getting very far into the game) we wanted to run an idea past you. Currently, if a player wants new armor or weapons or even spells they must seek out other players or learn to make it themselves. This can often be difficult if no-one is online who can make the item or who knows it. Or worse, if the player would have to spend many days learning to make the items themselves by joining a school and leveling it.

    One solution to this would be to add non-teched items to existing Trainers so that players could purchase un-teched items for immediate use. Only items that are also sold as formulas would be available (so, for example, an Armorsmith Trainer would only sell Ringmail and Scalemail, not Chainmail or Platemail) and these would be un-teched.

    This would still leave a market for teched items as well as for the looted variety of items. But it would provide a mechanism for players who are new to the game or in the middle tiers to obtain basic equipment for their level quickly, while still providing a market for existing players by providing techniqued equipment.

    Questions, comments, feedback welcome. Would you support this enhancement?

    A. Yes
    B. No

  2. #2

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I disagree with the notion that making the game easier and reducing the learning curve and difficulty is a positive step. Those are exactly the things that make Istaria worth playing. If someone wants easy, they can play WoW, Rift, or one of many other theme park designs.
    I find the negative sentiment that a player may have to spend time learning a trade in order to provide themselves goods, shocking. Istaria is foremost a crafting MMOG after all.

    Considering the state of Istaria currently in regards to player base size and thus economic health though, it really doesn't matter if you add these things to vendors.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I support the idea, but I can't help but to wonder, why no plate or chain?

    What good does it do to allow people to purchase Lv1 equipment, and then they reach Level 10 and then they're running back to the Consigner looking for Lv11 armor again?

    Mobs <Lv11 can oftentimes be killed while naked anyways, even if you're just a plain warrior and nothing but.

    If we're going to have T1 armor on consigners, we might as well go Whole-Hog and make the Chain and Plate available too.

    As long as it is untech'd, I don't really get why it'd be overpowered, as it is only Tier 1, and at least a Lv20 character has access to more stuff than a Lv10 character would.

    As for learning how to craft your own, that is kind of a catch-22:

    The Chain and Plate Formulas are not sold by any NPC; you have to kill junk to get it. But, as you get Level 11, you need new armor, right? You can't get that armor unless you, or someone else crafts it. You can't craft it without killing hordes of mobs... but yet you're Lv11 and you need armor...

    See the run-around circle here? At least a Lv20 would have full access to all Tier 1 mobs (and thus be able to farm up Tier 1 form drops).

    Edit: Keep forgetting that Chain/Plate is Lv11, not Lv10

  4. #4

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I thought this was pretty much available on the imperial vendors....I know I just bought refurburished hide armor for my monk and refurbished plate for my warrior.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    How about just including a full set of starting (refurbished) armor to new characters when they join an adventure school as part of the starting equipment, like weapons and shields? This way they're not running around in a pair of starting pants and and a t-shirt. They also won't have to spend their hard earned copper on buying the refurbished stuff once they get to NT.
    I never met a gnome I didn't like. For tender morsels they are!

  6. #6

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I like the idea of refurbished gear being available for tiers II - IV as well as tier I. By the time they get to the higher tiers, they will most likely be looking for crafters who can make properly tech'd gear anyway. I do not see how it hurts to have something minimal available to the desperate. It's not like crafters are falling over each other looking for business at the middle tiers.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    A happy YES from here

    But I also support Draeconis` idea,

    and would sign what Awdz says- but only for t1 - t3.

    I am sure- such a measure will help to make newbies stay longer!
    And it does not hurt anybody.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    How about this? Vendors that give quests requesting certain amounts of gear (5 chainmail helms), give coin and xp for completing those quests, then turn around and sell what they have.

    This keeps the creation of materials in-house, gives some much needed xp and money to young crafters and provides inexpensive items to new players.

    If you make it so that the items don't decay people can constantly work to keep the venders stocked by way of the quests...and there will always be plenty available.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I support the idea for simple and unteched items, at least for the first tiers.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I also support the idea of "Base" equipment being available in the early teirs to help out the new player.

    The "learning curve" or "difficulty" to me is not really effected by this because the equipment wil be unteched and effectively the "worst" equipment you could get. It won't really be a motivator to me that keeps people from crafting stuff from themselves or asking for stuff from others becasue they'll need ot do that to get the "real" stuff - the teched/nicer/upgraded stuff.

    Course I also like the idea of providing it for post-10 at NT too.

    And I really like Joe's idea of the low level crafting quest requesting stuff crafters can make for coin and XP and then selling same items (even if its not persay the exact stuff the crafters sold, but just provided the equipment they are offering the quest for to make it LOOK like they are actually seling what crafters provide lol).
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
    Great Elder of Keir Chet K'Eilerten
    Iea has returned.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by joemarra052075 View Post
    How about this? Vendors that give quests requesting certain amounts of gear (5 chainmail helms), give coin and xp for completing those quests, then turn around and sell what they have.
    That's a fantastic idea - and adds a "lore" reason why the crafting quest people would have that sort of thing to sell.
    - Kesqui - Formerly of Ice, now of Chaos, lair in Liak
    First Rebirth 12-12-2003 / Ascended to Ancient 12-12-2010

  12. #12

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    [quote >snip
    Or worse, if the player would have to spend many days learning to make the items themselves by joining a school and leveling it.
    <[/quote]

    sorry but i thought that was the point of this game.
    I would prefer to see all beginer forms put back on trainers for people to buy.
    Gimbold, Ancient dwarf on Chaos
    Mottle, Ancient dragon on Chaos

  13. #13

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    joe's idea sounds like another cosigner. If no one is currently making that item, then the person wanting that item is SOL. No thanks.

    I also disagree with having all the beginner formulas on the vendors.

    I support the the OP where if you just need gear to get by, it is available for you without the need to grind "godnotanothercraftschool". I would like to see this for all levels truthfully.

    This sounds very handy for characters of all tiers wanting to get that next set and would rather not depend on others because they are not quite high enough to make said item. For when wearing the last tier's set will get you dead way too quickly but you're too low to get the comps for your current set without the armor you're trying to get. Running in circles is no fun. A slight boost of help in the right direction can get a player the boost they need to grow properly.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I like this idea. I also like the idea of having the trainers give out crafting quests to make several of whatever items they're selling.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Shian View Post
    joe's idea sounds like another cosigner. If no one is currently making that item, then the person wanting that item is SOL. No thanks.

    I also disagree with having all the beginner formulas on the vendors.

    I support the the OP where if you just need gear to get by, it is available for you without the need to grind "godnotanothercraftschool". I would like to see this for all levels truthfully.

    This sounds very handy for characters of all tiers wanting to get that next set and would rather not depend on others because they are not quite high enough to make said item. For when wearing the last tier's set will get you dead way too quickly but you're too low to get the comps for your current set without the armor you're trying to get. Running in circles is no fun. A slight boost of help in the right direction can get a player the boost they need to grow properly.
    While my idea is similar to a consigner it is different on several important points that should make it viable.

    1. It gives people quests for large numbers of items (20 chainmail helms, 20 hide gloves ect ect ect). The fact that they are quests will give people more incentive to make the items.

    2. By stocking up on those items with large quest orders it will prevent a shortage in stock.

    3. It will actually add to the lore of the game and help keep the sandbox nature.

    4. It takes the risk out for the seller - If a player know that when he makes 20 chainmail helms he will be paid for them, then he will be far more likely to make them.

    5. It standardizes the prices for the basic items. Let's a player know what he needs to save to get them.

    6. It makes a standard against which teched items can be priced on the connie.

    The only disadvantage that I can see would be for the first few months while the stock was being established. The easiest way around that would be to give the vender a initial stock and if stock falls below a certain threshold the initial stock would reset.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    I've seen requests for such stuffs by some new players on Order shard. They were less than happy that people weren't stocking consigners with basic, unteched gear. I made mention that it's often the wish of the person looking for such armors and stuff to want them teched to fit their own style. However, as an interim to seeking out a skilled crafter to make such stuff, this would at least get them in the right direction.

    I vote yes.
    C`gan Weyrsinger, blue Tagath's rider, WorldProjects Team Lead Emeritus
    Tagath, blue Lunus "for the breath weapon"
    Located in sunny Acul on Trandalar, Order shard

  17. #17

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by joemarra052075 View Post
    1. It gives people quests for large numbers of items (20 chainmail helms, 20 hide gloves ect ect ect). The fact that they are quests will give people more incentive to make the items.
    Not really. People would make only what gets them the most xp.
    Why make gloves when a chestplate gets you twice the xp? Why spend the time working at two resource stations when you can get the same amount of xp using one?

    Would you take the quest with the least xp payout? I wouldn't. I'd take the highest and work on that until I've reached my next tier.

    Speaking of tiers, there is a strong chance (I believe it is Murphy's law) that the tier you need, no one is working on.

    Sorry, I'd rather have a guarantee that the equipment I need will be there. If I wanted to depend on other players for my gear, I will just ask those online, not use yet another type of cosigner that still depends on players to supply for you.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Shian View Post
    Not really. People would make only what gets them the most xp.
    Why make gloves when a chestplate gets you twice the xp? Why spend the time working at two resource stations when you can get the same amount of xp using one?

    Would you take the quest with the least xp payout? I wouldn't. I'd take the highest and work on that until I've reached my next tier.

    Speaking of tiers, there is a strong chance (I believe it is Murphy's law) that the tier you need, no one is working on.

    Sorry, I'd rather have a guarantee that the equipment I need will be there. If I wanted to depend on other players for my gear, I will just ask those online, not use yet another type of cosigner that still depends on players to supply for you.

    My earlier point is that we already have that. The imperial vendors sell refurbished gear both T1 and what I call T1.5 (level 10). The one in NT sells the T1 and the one in Kion sells the T1.5.

    Now standard is slightly better than refurbished, but not by alot. And there are ways around the problems you listed.

    The quests would be repeatable, but only when you have completed them all would it reset, therefore you would have to make alot of stuff for the quests to reset.

    It could also be done so that it asks for 20 sets (20 sets of chainmail armor...chest, forarms x 2, shoulders x 2, legs, feet, arms, waist, face, and head).

    It's not perfect no, but it sure will help.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    Yes, but only for beginner level items.

    That gives new people the chance to get the equipment but still requires meeting people/leveling for future work.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Vendor Equipment

    There is a big difference between making the game too easy and making the game easy to play. Istaria is not easy and it's also not easy to play. The easy to play part is what needs to be fixed to retain new players.

    It has been suggested before in another thread that the best way to get folks the things they need is to teach them how to craft. Example: Blacksmith trainer gives you a quest to make "x" number of bronze bars.
    Blacksmith trainer then gives you a formula to make "x" number of bronze mining picks.
    Blacksmith trainer gives you a quest to make "x" number of sandstone bricks.
    Blacksmith trainer then gives you a quest to make "x" number of sandstone essence siphons.
    Rinse, repeat till you have all the tool forms you want.

    These quests can be added to every beginner crafting trainer for all formulas and techs. This way new players are taught how to craft, given what they need to craft, and don't spend days running around in circles trying to understand crafting. Seeing that you have to do "a" to make "b" but you also have to do "b" to make "a" is what causes frustration and loss of new players.

    I think that new players should receive something from their first adventure school trainer that gives them access to a full set of refurbished armour and weapons. Their first crafting trainer should also furnish them with a refurbished level 5 cargo disk along with the tools and basic resource forms they currently get. And an explanation of how to get the quests as I listed above.

    The thrill (or "hook" of Istaria) is learning to do things for yourself.

    Give a man a fish and he has a meal. Teach a man to fish and he eats for life.

    Thaalia of Order

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