Talk to the Team: Single Machine Structures

[Velea]

A suggestion was made earlier in the week for some structures that would be the size and shape of the simple "shack" type buildings that would have single machines in them. The proposed buildings would allow for a wider variety of combinations on a single plot without taking up the space that a full building with two machines requires.

Presently a few such structures exist, but not a complete line of them. In discussing the possible introduction of new single-machine structures, it was suggested that even if the machine gave no skill bonus it would still be useful.

So we'd like to hear what you think. One thing to note is that should we move forward with introducing a line of "single-machine structures", currently existing structures of that category would be modified to provide a skill bonus equal to the new ones. That bonus may be less than it is now, or it may be nothing at all depending on feedback.

So the question we'd like to discuss with you is this:

Would you support the introduction of new "single-machine" structures if the bonus for using such machines was 0 to your skill?

What if it were just less than that of a full building (either +5 or +10 to skill)?

Would such "single structure" machines be of use to players on their plots?

Discuss!

[Balthizar]

I think it would open up all kinds of new build possablitys. I say yes. Even if they end up with no bounces.

[Knossos]

Should they have no bonus it is most likely that all would be built as T1 in that all tiers have same physical appearance there would be no incentive to build higher tiers.

Knossos

[AmonGwareth]

Should they have no bonus it is most likely that all would be built as T1 in that all tiers have same physical appearance there would be no incentive to build higher tiers.

Knossos

Correct, there would only be 1 tier of these. Not 3 tiers as there are now.

[Akrion]

Any idea on what these single machine structures would require material-wise to build?

[AmonGwareth]

Any idea on what these single machine structures would require material-wise to build?

No idea, haven't gotten that far yet. Just trying to ascertain the general interest.

[Akrion]

I'm just wondering on the tier. If they'll just all require tier 1 materials or a mix of multiple tiers. I would definitely support these machines if they're relatively quick/easy to build, even with 0 bonus, because having machines on-site to build construction components out of would be great.

[Gimbold]

currently existing structures of that category would be modified to provide a skill bonus equal to the new ones. That bonus may be less than it is now, or it may be nothing at all depending on feedback

So the expert Cauldron, Distillery, Pottery and Paper Press that i have built on my plot could be reduced to T1 with no bonus! no thanks.

Make them T3 with bonus then they will be worth building

[C`gan]

I'm of a mixed mind on this one. Would those porches we already have now be affected in this, or would these be separate from the ones proposed?

I would be in favor of them as long as what's already in remains separate from this new set, so they wouldn't take the hit of reduced or no bonus, especially since the paper press currently has no large building with another machine in it. Rather unfair to take that only bonus away.

As for the new set, even if they only gave a +5 or +10 bonus to them, they'd still be imminently useful. Since these would be only a single tier (like the vault), I see the idea behind them as being for quick use "for now" temporary structures anyway.

[Holth]

If you are going to make the single machine structures with no skill bonus I say NO! I am a GMC and I need those skill bonuses to make top tier items.

There is currently no building structure that has a paperpress and/or a pottery wheel in it except the "shed" type single buildings. Removing the bonus from the "shed" structures would make the current ones I have built totally useless to me.

While I like the idea of making every machine buildable as a "shed" type structure/single machine with no skill bonus, please design a tiered building with a paperpress and pottery machine before any changes are made to the current "shed" type sturctures.

Thaalia of Order

[jerk-o]

I like the idea of single machine structure, although I'm not sure if I'd rather have them give no bonus, or just a small bonus.

[Sigi]

New single machine structures without bonus are fine with me as long as you leave the already existing ones the way they are (tiered with bonus)

[Sindala]

I'm not sure on this one.
I hate to use Slayvite and fly over plots all starting to look the same as it is.
2-3 machine shops, vault and then as many silos as they can cram on their plots.

This would just encourage everyone to have the same plots as each other.
Not pretty from the air.

Yes, it would be usefull to Sindala as some of the plots around where she lives are just big and empty so she has to go searching for a plot she can use say a smelter on, but i just dont know.

Oh and what about Lairs? Same for them?

[Frith-Rae]

Should they have no bonus it is most likely that all would be built as T1 in that all tiers have same physical appearance there would be no incentive to build higher tiers.

Knossos

Oh like with dragon storage chambers =D

No seriously I have a point there...not just being smart I swear!

Though I am not a biped.. if I can be permitted to chime in..

I would think most would prefer if they offered a bonus, just a reduced one. Seems like a compromise thatmakes sense - you're telling them "well you can have the smaller AxB item on your plot that saves space, but you won't get the full bonus of the full structure. If you want the full structure bonus you have to build the big one."

Which brings me to my point above, like dragon storage chambers. "Yes you can put in a Tier 3/5 whatever lair chamber, but it takes up mucho space downward which gets in the way of other buildings." Its why most dragons never build anything higher than Tier 1. So similiar to that (in that you sacrifice some bonus for the smaller footprint item, much like dragons sacrifice build space for extra capacity in their silos).

So I would think that if you don't feel it does too much of an imbalance, put a smaller bonus on the smaller plot tools. To me that just makes the most sense. Those who don't benefit from the smaller bonus (i.e. making tier 6) true, they won't build them - but this isn't (no offense to anyone) something that everyone has to feel a benefit to use. They can still use the same machines we have now, which yes I TOTALLY AGREE need to KEEP their CURRENT BONUSES!! (not yelling, emphasis) :)

So yes yes yes, do NOT change the current building machines (and really didn't see anything saying you were thinking about doing this but hey a confirmation wouldn't hurt ;)).

But I see nothing wrong, since this really is a purely cosmetic/extra option type building with having partial bonuses instead of the same bonus.

Now I will also offer the..musing.. that if these are purely meant as a cosmetic item that just happens to offer a single machine for smaller-plot usage I really do understand the concept of having just no bonus at all. If these are indeed not meant to be "practical alternative" instead of just "cosmetic alternative". Outside of Tier 6, I'm not aware of any real issues (given the right equipment) of not being able to craft anything at optimal, but again just a dragon so can't speak for bipeds, without the bonus. So I do understand that side of it, just saying "Hey we're putting this in as a neat option but in no way do we mean for it to be a direct alternative to a full-building" much like you've done with the "PVP arena" so to speak.

BUT if you'd like to just be extra nice about putting in such extra options for us, then I say go partial bonus! :) *claps* YES!


and Yes I too am curious about lairs - though I can see those being "on down the pony list" as an entire chamber reworked for a single tool might be different than just providing the tool by itself on people's plots. Our chambers are what take up the space and not the "tools" themselves forcing the chambers to be bigger because they just need all that room :). (THough I'd love to have the option to have the option!)

[Shadina]

More options are generally better than fewer. These machines should give full bonus for their teir, or at worst, slightly reduced bonus.

[Dracaena]

I will have to side with the people who like the tiered bonus machines. We have no options for the pottery wheel or paper press but these single structures. I would rather keep the bonus and shops we have, then have the ease of fitting something into that little corner of the plot with zero craft bonus.

So if I want a smelter I will have to build a blacksmith shop or plan to run to my dragon's lair (full t6 machines) from my biped plot. The fact I need to put in a tinker shop for the missing anvil if I forgo a blacksmith shop is acceptable. I would be upset if I lost the bonus on the pottery wheel and paper press.


Dracaena

[Akrion]

I will have to side with the people who like the tiered bonus machines. We have no options for the pottery wheel or paper press but these single structures. I would rather keep the bonus and shops we have, then have the ease of fitting something into that little corner of the plot with zero craft bonus.

So if I want a smelter I will have to build a blacksmith shop or plan to run to my dragon's lair (full t6 machines) from my biped plot. The fact I need to put in a tinker shop for the missing anvil if I forgo a blacksmith shop is acceptable. I would be upset if I lost the bonus on the pottery wheel and paper press.


Dracaena

What if they were to deal with the issue regarding the pottery wheel and paper press? I keep seeing people saying "No, I don't like this idea because I don't want to lose the bonus on the pottery wheel or paper press" but they don't put their opinion in if this wasn't a problem. You're disregarding every other machine over a potential problem with 2 or 3 machines. What about the idea as a whole? What if the pottery wheel and paper press either got their own building or were treated separately, for example, what about the idea then?

Also: Sometimes it's not always about fitting something into that little corner and more about the fact that not every plot is larger than 60x60 and can afford to fit both storage and full sized machine structures. Or that perhaps some people (like me) would enjoy having machines on their plot without dedicating their plot to holding machines, allowing them to focus more on how their plot looks rather than just making an identical Machine and Silo farm.

[Dracaena]

So the question we'd like to discuss with you is this:

Would you support the introduction of new "single-machine" structures if the bonus for using such machines was 0 to your skill?

What if it were just less than that of a full building (either +5 or +10 to skill)?

Would such "single structure" machines be of use to players on their plots?

Discuss!

This.

What if they were to deal with the issue regarding the pottery wheel and paper press? I keep seeing people saying "No, I don't like this idea because I don't want to lose the bonus on the pottery wheel or paper press" but they don't put their opinion in if this wasn't a problem. You're disregarding every other machine over a potential problem with 2 or 3 machines. What about the idea as a whole? What if the pottery wheel and paper press either got their own building or were treated separately, for example, what about the idea then?

Also: Sometimes it's not always about fitting something into that little corner and more about the fact that not every plot is larger than 60x60 and can afford to fit both storage and full sized machine structures. Or that perhaps some people (like me) would enjoy having machines on their plot without dedicating their plot to holding machines, allowing them to focus more on how their plot looks rather than just making an identical Machine and Silo farm.

The question was "Would you support the introduction of new "single-machine" structures if the bonus for using such machines was 0 to your skill?". My answer is no. And I have never been accused of creating silo farms in a lair or a plot.

Guess the rules are changed on this one, I was under the impression that replies to dev question threads were supposed to be one post per person.


Dracaena

[Andaras]

I am torn here, since my postings seem to enter into a void and I
never know what happened. :(

MY thoughts on this are:

Is this being considered because you wish to remove the multi-tiers and
simplify things within the coding, or due to Database problems you
need to resolve? Getting a bigger picture behind the reasons for this
change would help the players understand the motivations behind it.

"One thing to note is that should we move forward with introducing a line of "single-machine structures", currently existing structures of that category would be modified to provide a skill bonus equal to the new ones."

"That bonus may be less than it is now, or it may be nothing at all depending on feedback"

Based on those statements, my answers:

"Would you support the introduction of new "single-machine" structures if the bonus for using such machines was 0 to your skill?"

---Absolutely not

"What if it were just less than that of a full building (either +5 or +10 to skill)?"

---NO, Some of these machines still haven't been added to the so-called
"Full Buildings".

"Would such "single structure" machines be of use to players on their plots?"

---Absolutely NO, not as proposed.


Andaras

[Shinkuu]

These single machines could be useful but I would prefer they give a bonus appropriate to their Tier of Build.