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Thread: Talk to the Team: Metals

  1. #1

    Default Talk to the Team: Metals

    Wanted to run a couple questions by you all, get your feedback. Please keep on-topic and to the specific questions.

    1. We have considered removing the second metal from the creation of Cobalt, Mithril and Adamantium Bars? So, Cobalt and Mithril Bars would no longer require Nickel, and Adamantium would no longer require Mithril. What is your opinion on this?

    2. How would you feel if Copper&Tin Ore was renamed to Bronze Ore?

    3. Are there any other core materials (other than food) that seem overly complex to you that you might change if given the chance?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    I recall when alloys were introduced, hated them from start and would welcome their demise.

    As for copper and tin ore, Just today yet another new player was confused over the copper and tin ore to bronze bar process, and yes I would welcome renaming to bronze ore too, as making this change would decrease new player frustration.

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    So, Cobalt and Mithril Bars would no longer require Nickel, and Adamantium would no longer require Mithril.
    Mithril requires platinum rather than nickel .. (just so no one else feels the need to jump on this detail).

    I remember when metals were changed and there was a huge hue and cry - and a lot of people threatened to leave - whether they actually did or not - I don't rightly remember ..

    Personally I have gotten used to the multi-ore bars and have learned how to effectively make them - so see no real reason to make them easier again - however - I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with this.

    For me - the stayers in Istaria are going to stay - almost no matter how much more complex or involved the crafting is (although I'm not asking for more difficulties - heh) .. people build T6 dragon lairs - which is just insane in my book. someone who will leave or stay over multi-ore metals - will probably leave or stay for other more important reasons to them.

    There is at least one location where there is a ML of each ore required for the multi-metals .. and people are also accustomed to working with crafts like alchemy and so forth that require multiple resources (silos) to work effectively.

    I will not complain if you make the metals easier - but I see no real need to change them either.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    What about steel? Would that still need two resources?
    I just lost the game.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    Valornyx, my mistake. And thank you.

    Jerk-o, Steel will take some looking into since there isn't a base ore for it. But, we'll see what we can do about it if we move forward with this idea.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    1. I wouldn't mind the loss of the second ore to make bars. As for steel, I think I have an answer for you, Amon. Back in the WAY olden days (I'm sure you'll remember, when David was the head of AE), we had steel golems which roamed the northern pass between Chiconis and Harton Valley before Feladan was reclaimed. I don't think there was ever a particular single ore node for it as the formula required iron bars and nickel bars to make steel bars.

    2. Since advanced high school science is no longer teaching what alloys use which metals, it'd probably be a good idea to change the name.

    3. Dragon lairshaping resources for maelstones and flowstones. I know, they're supposed to be the higher side of each tier, but given that they require 3 resources rather than 2, must it also be that it takes 20 of each intermediate? By doing the math, it's 2 raw resources per bar/brick, plus 1 raw resource more for dragon intermediate (all times 40) plus 2 raw resources per brick/bar (times 40) to get 1 placeable unit at optimal. So, that makes, for example, 80 ore (40 bars, 20 intermediates) + 40 raw essence (20 intermediates) + 80 slabs (40 bricks) = 1 unit lairshaping (2 lairshaping maelstones/flowstones). That's 200 raw resources assuming the metal isn't an alloy. By comparison, a biped upper tier unit is only 80 raw resources (assuming not an alloy). What I propose would be to take the final lairshaping product and cut the amout of resources of the maelstones and flowstones in 1/2 or 3/4 (10:1 per piece or 15:1 per piece instead of 20:1).The extra complexity is in the use of multiple resources and shouldn't be overpowered by higher quantities as well.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    Depends. The exp on alloys was already nerfed severely. I assume that taking the second item needed out would lower metal exp down as well? I personally didn't mind the need for 2 resources since the exp was worth the extra time....but...with the nerf in exp, I figure it is NOT worth it any more.

    I would much rather see the exp bumped back to what it was and the 2 resources kept. As for bronze ore? Sure, rename it if it helps newbies :)
    "State your case, but do it well. I do not suffer fools gladly." ~Sereamha Balla-dor

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    I totally agree with Valornyx.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    Quote Originally Posted by AmonGwareth View Post
    Wanted to run a couple questions by you all, get your feedback. Please keep on-topic and to the specific questions.

    1. We have considered removing the second metal from the creation of Cobalt, Mithril and Adamantium Bars? So, Cobalt and Mithril Bars would no longer require Nickel, and Adamantium would no longer require Mithril. What is your opinion on this?

    2. How would you feel if Copper&Tin Ore was renamed to Bronze Ore?

    3. Are there any other core materials (other than food) that seem overly complex to you that you might change if given the chance?
    1. I have a double feeling about this. I don’t like the game getting easier, but on the other hand I wonder why it was made more annoying then the other resources to begin with. All in all I would still welcome the change when it comes.

    2. I am used to it and not bothered by this, if others prefer bronze ore then change it, if not leave it.

    3. Personally I have no real annoyance for crafting other then it takes a long time to collect and walk from node to node.
    Quote Originally Posted by C`gan View Post
    3. Dragon lairshaping resources for maelstones and flowstones. I know, they're supposed to be the higher side of each tier, but given that they require 3 resources rather than 2, must it also be that it takes 20 of each intermediate? By doing the math, it's 2 raw resources per bar/brick, plus 1 raw resource more for dragon intermediate (all times 40) plus 2 raw resources per brick/bar (times 40) to get 1 placeable unit at optimal. So, that makes, for example, 80 ore (40 bars, 20 intermediates) + 40 raw essence (20 intermediates) + 80 slabs (40 bricks) = 1 unit lairshaping (2 lairshaping maelstones/flowstones). That's 200 raw resources assuming the metal isn't an alloy. By comparison, a biped upper tier unit is only 80 raw resources (assuming not an alloy). What I propose would be to take the final lairshaping product and cut the amout of resources of the maelstones and flowstones in 1/2 or 3/4 (10:1 per piece or 15:1 per piece instead of 20:1).The extra complexity is in the use of multiple resources and shouldn't be overpowered by higher quantities as well.
    C’gan has a big point that Lairshaping could be seen as complex… However with the change proposed in nr.1 (the whole alloy thing removed) that would require a lot less work to gather materials for the Maelstones, Flowstones (and not to forget Excoriations and Imbued Bars).. So having to dig more then a Biped is not a bad thing… A biped is cursed with having to fill silo after silo with the same stuff. A little complexity can be welcoming.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    To just go on what others have said,
    1. removing the second metal would truly be a god send. Making bars takes stupid amounts of time to make. However, the XP is good and is great for leveling an alt if you already have a maxed character that can gather it.
    If you don't have a maxed alt, metal is quite brutal in that you can process it easy enough, but don't have enough gathering to strip it out of the ground at all if you don't have a twinked character.

    While it would make exp gain much slower, this would make lairshaping much easier by putting ease on the already taxing amount of silos lairshaping requires. I'd support this whole heartily.

    2. Yes please! Rename it so it is not confusing.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    I, too, agree with Valornyx.
    YOU told me to play a dragon!

  12. #12
    Member Sigi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    @1
    Why are you considering that? What was the reason for putting in the second material in the first place and what made that reason invalid now?

    @2
    Bit weird. Bronze ore. But what's in a name...

    @3
    Perhaps some overly simple things should be made more complex?

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigi View Post
    @1
    Why are you considering that? What was the reason for putting in the second material in the first place and what made that reason invalid now?
    I believe the answers would be:
    Ask the first owners
    and because it's something this company wants to do. They weren't the ones that developed this game, but they are the ones trying to improve it.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    Sigi, I don't know why the alloy system was added. I wasn't part of the design team at that point unfortunately. However, to clarify the reasoning behind the proposal:

    The overall goal is always to make the game more fun and less tedious. The overall process of creating items from ground to sword or from ground to House is already pretty tedious and complex and the alloy system only makes it more so. Removing the alloy metals allows for less tedium, more building and item creation, and more fun.

    There are still have places in the game with quite a bit of complexity and depth, such as Confectioner, Lairshaper, Scrolls for Scholar, and Keys and Cargo Disks for Tinkerer. In the future it is a safe bet that we'll be adding more complexity to new items that come out as well as to any school revamps we undertake. We feel that the complexity and depth should be centered on the finished product rather than the early stages. because the complexity and depth results in more satisfaction than you get by simply making mithril bars out of two different types of ore.

    It is because of this that we feel that the alloys to make metal bars don't really add any fun or value to the game and is why we are considering the change. Hope that helps.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    I can't decide whether this change would be a good thing or not.

    Renaming copper and tin ore to bronze ore makes sense.

    Removing the alloys, I don't know
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  16. #16
    Member Sigi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    @Amon
    ok, thanks for clarifying. Although I don't think it is more or less fun to make bars using one or two kind of ore - is making bronze more fun than making cobalt? I can see the less tedious part.

    To clarify my @3 in post #12
    I was thinking it would be nice to make metal and stone tools with wooden handles and something like that for weapons and then give them a little bonus in relation to normal one resource ones.

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  17. #17

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    My opinion, for what it's worth:

    Ditching multiple ores for bars would be lovely; no other biped construction item requires multiple components.

    All the ores could be renamed to match the bars metals they are used to make, or maybe something more Istarian/fictional. I do like how currently lower tiers sound more mundane and later tiers more exotic.

    I really don't care if crafting in Istaria matches real science closely; I'm not playing in a world that's supposed to be a mirror of real life.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    For steel, would it be possible to rename nickel ore and nickel golems to steel ore and steel golems, and just have steel bars require steel ore, since nickel is just an alloy?
    I just lost the game.

  19. #19
    Member C`gan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    Or, to de-alloy tier 3, why not just make it nickel bars and such?

    T1: bronze
    T2: iron
    T3: nickel
    T4: cobalt
    T5: mithril
    T6: adamantium
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Metals

    1- Yes. I hate alloys.
    2- Yes, a name change would be less confusing for newbies.
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