Underwater Content/Swimming?

[Racktor]

I was looking over that old Horizons review post made way back in 2001 that's been circling around, and looking at that underwater creature that was suppose to be a race..

..why was it ever dropped? Underwater stuff would be pretty dang cool, if you ask me. Swimming would be fun too. Exploring the depths of the ocean always interested at least me~

I don't believe it would be extremely hard to program into Istaria's system/coding style.. forgot what it's called. If it was planned originally, the game would of had to worked around with things like that, right? So it shouldn't be impossible, unless that was why it was debunked in the first place.

Just a general suggestion here, there's more important things going on right now but this would be a need add-in =P

(I dont believe anyone suggested this before either, searched the forums and nothing really came up.)

~Racky

[Raptress]

If you're talking about the Lamurians, that race is from a very different version of the Horizons concept that bears little resemblance to the game that was actually made. I have little doubt that Istaria as it exists now has absolutely no built-in support for swimming or underwater content, and that it would all have to be made from scratch.

[Solitaire]

The underwater ideas for the game were abandoned long ago in the first incarnation of what Horizons could have been. Even then it was in and out a couple of times before being out permanently. That Horizons is vastly different from the Horizons that was launched. There is no underwater content at all. Except for fish.

[Frith-Rae]

Yea im thinking that the engine doesnt really support "swimming" at all since...we just run along the ground underwater LOL.

So I have a feeling it would be...nothing short of recoding a new engine to really get an underwater world/area.

Just to make note of this - to date the ONLY game Im aware of to successfully have a FULLY underwater zone of any type is WoW and they did it once - in the Caty Expansion. I somewhat doubt they are jumping to do another one.

And IMO, it was fun to play through...once. The headaches that are 3d targeting..you have no idea...LOL. And for people with challenged senses of direction - oh...let me tell you..LOL.

[Northwind]

Just to make note of this - to date the ONLY game Im aware of to successfully have a FULLY underwater zone of any type is WoW and they did it once - in the Caty Expansion. I somewhat doubt they are jumping to do another one.

And IMO, it was fun to play through...once. The headaches that are 3d targeting..you have no idea...LOL. And for people with challenged senses of direction - oh...let me tell you..LOL.

You missed Dark Age of Camelot - it had an expansion, Trials of Atlantis, that had vast underwater content - an entire world - epic encounters and all.
Also PVP above and under water.

But I'm digressing.
In Istaria should be simple since you have dragons flying - that is moving in a 3D environment untied from a floor of any kind - there is nothing different than swimming. Only thing that is missing is a water breath potion

[Frith-Rae]

True, it would be "everyone flying between the water ceiling and the ground" I guess the way the engine sees it.

But of course, that does not solve the problem of fighting/tareting - since dragons cant do that flying either LOL.

And ahh I had no idea DAOC had that! Awesome!! Ok so thats 2..in..umm...15 years of genre now I guess? hehe. Dont ge tme wrong, I thought it was kinda neat and cool and different and was a gorgoues zone (in WoW); however, it definitley had its drawbacks as well and most altaholics didnt play through it more than 1-2 , feeling the "land" zone waas faster/easier.

Cuz respawns in 3d space can be a nightmare...LOL.

[Thicklesip]

True, it would be "everyone flying between the water ceiling and the ground" I guess the way the engine sees it.

But of course, that does not solve the problem of fighting/tareting - since dragons cant do that flying either LOL.

And ahh I had no idea DAOC had that! Awesome!! Ok so thats 2..in..umm...15 years of genre now I guess? hehe. Dont ge tme wrong, I thought it was kinda neat and cool and different and was a gorgoues zone (in WoW); however, it definitley had its drawbacks as well and most altaholics didnt play through it more than 1-2 , feeling the "land" zone waas faster/easier.

Cuz respawns in 3d space can be a nightmare...LOL.

Hey now, hey now... I managed to rake in four level 85s before I left WoW, and while not all of them got to do Vashj'ir as their first Cata zone, that was only because I desperately needed Hyjal rep. I hate Mount Hyjal by now, worse than I've ever hated Hellfire Peninsula, and I did HFP 6-8 times before we'd even reached the point in the game where Fel Reavers were anything but a horrible, stompy death. The burn-out from that lasted years. YEARS. And I still think HFP is a good, fun zone that I start bouncing eagerly in my seat at the prospect of doing. (Or would, if I hadn't given up on WoW for the moment in favor of other things.)

I completely sympathize with the people who can't manage 3D zones for mechanical reasons. I've known a friend or two who couldn't do The Oculus, for instance, because they had intense vertigo/motion sickness issues when trying to get around there. I've also known people with overwhelming water-based phobias, so I can understand them not being too keen on Vashj'ir either! Not to mention there's something to be said for 3D combat being much harder on melee characters than ranged ones.

But, for me Vashj'ir was The Good Cataclysm Zone. The story gets two thumbs up. The visuals are one long, loooong dopamine high. (I have known that WoW is adept at abusing my love for bright colors for awhile now, but Vashj'ir precision-targeted the "color = happy" button in my brain and spent the entire time hammering it.) Not to mention you ride a seahorse. And they finally figured out a way to make getting around underwater a pretty decent experience-- Sea Legs or whatever they called that squiggly blue water bubble buff was brilliant-- and on the less rational side I'm beginning to scrub out the memory of what getting my hunter's ghostly battle-crab cost me and now I spend more time dwelling on the fact that EEEEE battlecrab. (I don't care that they probably only put it in as a stupid homage to an employee. The part I care about is that they let me have something with the art of a crab and the mechanical benefits of That @#$%ing Moonfire Cat.)

It probably helps that I didn't play any melee classes. Also, it helps that the competition was Hyjal, ugh.

[Thicklesip]

I was going to say something, Frith, but then I realized how off-topic it would be so I made an off-topic thread instead.

The underwater ideas for the game were abandoned long ago in the first incarnation of what Horizons could have been. Even then it was in and out a couple of times before being out permanently. That Horizons is vastly different from the Horizons that was launched. There is no underwater content at all. Except for fish.

Huh, interesting to know. Thanks for sharing, I always love little behind-the-scenes peeks like this. And for the record I shed no tears for the lack of underwater content-- I'm really quite happy with what we have above sea level.

[Velea]

I've merged the two threads back together into one.

We really don't need a second topic on something which is not possible at this time, which underwater content is not (possible that is).

[Shian]

Cuz respawns in 3d space can be a nightmare...LOL.

There's been a bunch of events and quests in RIFT that takes you underwater and yes, respawns are an utter nightmare. Add in the fact you have to be facing your target to hit it and the underwater zone really just isn't as fun as the novelty of it is.

Hey, waiiiit a minute! There is an underwater zone in Champions Online too! I don't know if I made it past it or not but still, it's there :P Shows you how memorable it is...

[Thicklesip]

I've merged the two threads back together into one.

We really don't need a second topic on something which is not possible at this time, which underwater content is not (possible that is).

(Sorry! I spawned the other thread to talk about underwater stuff in other games and natter about the dreaded MMO-that-rhymes-with-"cow", NOT swimming/underwater in Istaria. I should have made that more clear. )

Question Shian, Frith: why is it respawns that are bad and not just... spawns?

[Shian]

Spawns you can kinda see and prep for especially dense ones that have some normals and two strongs/epic in it.

Respawns are "There's now three people surrounding you AND two above you so no matter which way you are facing, it is WRONG. They also get the first hit in long before you can get your bearings and figure out which direction you need to be facing to get the 'up' guy. You're at half health before you figure all this out and start popping attacks and self buffs. 3-D space is MOB cheating just enough so that they get 3 second immunity because you are 'not facing your target'

[Frith-Rae]

Aye Shain pretty much has it - at least that was my experience in Vash.

Tempered with the fact that we went there as the first, first Caty zone (didnt touch hyjal till after we were 85). And if you were there on initial launch, the respawns everywhere were zippy-fast due to the respawn time based around how many people were playing in the zone.

So right after launch both of the intial zones were packedd with people - thus had higher than normal spawn rates.

But spawns in 3d space dont just spawn in front and behind you on your "plane" of sight (as they would in above ground places) but also above and below you - out of your line of sight.

I cant tell you how many times we became overwhelmed due to mobs spawning from SOMEWHERE and aggroing to us wtihout us having any clue where they game from LOL.

Now I was ranged and my hubby (we level everywhere together) was melee - and you are aboslutely right. I had an easier time with random-incoming spawns just tab targeting and firing and my pet going. He had a much harder time dealing with 2-3-4-5 adds coming out of what apperaed to be "nowhere" (cuz we ddnt see them until they were already tracking towards us).

Not to mention as a ranged person - tab targeting is just an AWFUL idea in 3-d space. I waas shooting at stuff I never saw thinking I was targeting something else...LOL.

On top of that, if you are higher/lower on the plane than your leveling partner - its harder than you even know to find them (esp. when they are in trouble ad yelling for help). You see theri dot on the minimap but they could be yards above or below you and it takes time to figure that out. Often times we were swimming around each other, trying to find each other, when one or the other of us was just above/below line of sight of the other (meanwhile pulling mobs while we looked LOL).

After the 2nd day of this, we smacked raid-icons over our heads to make it easier to see each other. Worked very well.

Now the zone I loved it slooks, the colors, I have so many "fish tank" screenies as I agree it is one of the top 3 more INTERESTING adn BEAUTIFUL zones in the entire game (zangamrsh in on that list for me as well). And I agree the story - with the naga queen and all that - was very intersting. The whole zone is awesome.

But you gotta be fine wiht tackling movement/tracking/spawns/directions in 3d space. I know many people who had a hard time keeping up )nothing to do with motion sickness just basic navigation and shooting stuff) and while they loved the idea and the zone they found it easier to just play through Hyjal if they were leveling up and go back to Vash once they outleveledd it if they wanted to play in it again.

Now the respawn TIME may be shorter and more managable due to not having thousands of people in the zone anymore; but yea its when the mobs all around you (up and down and left and right) all pop at the same time on you that makes it difficult. Now - as a duo we had FUN being overwhelmed and fighting for our lives; but when sometimes it would happen every dozen yards we moved - it got a bit tiring since we just relaly wanted to get to somewhere else LOL.

[Dhalin]

Not to mention as a ranged person - tab targeting is just an AWFUL idea in 3-d space. I waas shooting at stuff I never saw thinking I was targeting something else...LOL.

If only Blizzard would give us alternate "targeting indicators"... this would be Heaven.

We need an option to make a globe around whatever you're targeting because that stupid targeting circle can be made invisible by rugs on the floor, debris/junk, and sometimes underwater or in the air, the circle can disappear entirely.

I'd like some sort of... globe or half-moons on either SIDE of the mob (not at its feet!) that gives me further indication of WHAT is targeted. The minimap option helps you a little, but if you're in a 3d environment, it doesn't help as the minimap is only 2d.