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Thread: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

  1. #101

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarie Ancalimon View Post
    Here are some of the ideas we've been working on for improving the Knight of Creation school. Your thoughts and feedback are appreciated.

    * Create non-masterable summoned 2-handed swords called Claymores - 5 Tiers
    * Create non-masterable summoned 1-handed axes called Hand-Axe - 5 Tiers
    * Created non-masterable buff abilities that only modify summoned items

    Conjure Weapon Enhancements:
    • of Fire - Flaming effect - +Fire Damage / %Chance to give DoT
    • of Ice - Frozen effect - +Ice Damage / %Chance to Slow
    • of Energy - Lightning effect - +Energy Damage / %Chance to Mez
    • of Blessing - +Damage Vs Undead / %CHance to buff Max Health
    • of Spirit - Spirit effect - +Drain Life
    • Conjure Shield Enhancements (5 Tiers of Each)
    • of Resilience - +Armor / %Chance to buff Physical Resistances on Hit
    • of Deflection - +Block / %Chance to Heal on Hit
    • of the Ether - Ethereal Armor / %Chance to become immune to next attack
    • of Spikes - Damage Shield
    Yes yes yes ooh and yes!!

    Another thought could possibly be one attack where you throw your weapon it could works like an enhanced bolt?

    *claps like a happy child*
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracillion View Post
    YESSSS
    Mind you, Blessing of Istara would need to be revamped if we're throwing in multiple supported summoned weapons. Perhaps straight attribute bonuses instead of 1hs and shield?
    It could in theory do both 1 handed slash and shield AND two handed
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  2. #102

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Maybe adding a Blessing for each weapon type would be an idea. And please it should last 1 hour or 30 minutes, but not only 1,5 minutes.
    Terao (Gnome, Grand Master Crafter, Order [Unity])|Draigourn (Ancient, Master Lairshaper, Lunus, Order)|Echentrial (Ancient, Lunus, Order)

  3. #103

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Shining Blades as it stands isn't going to change. The spell, in case you missed it, is available at level 75 so it isn't exactly epic.

    However, LaughingOtter has written a quest series for a new epic-er Shining Blades which will eventually be added (just not in the current set of patches).
    I found this quote of Amon's in an old thread. Now I understand there are some difficulties with updating shining blades but I was wondering if this Epic-er Shining blades was still in the pipeline or if its been dropped altogether. Shining blades is without a doubt one of my favourite spells i love the lore, the Animation, and the quest (even if the directions are somewhat vague). I just truely wish this spell could get some love to bring it inline with other epics.. if need be i could try to come up with the lore and quest ideas for such an improvement if that is what is required.

    I think i might have mentioned this before but I thought a KNoC revamp might be just the place to do it.
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  4. #104

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Amarie Ancalimon View Post
    Here are some of the ideas we've been working on for improving the Knight of Creation school. Your thoughts and feedback are appreciated.

    * Create non-masterable summoned 2-handed swords called Claymores - 5 Tiers
    * Create non-masterable summoned 1-handed axes called Hand-Axe - 5 Tiers
    * Created non-masterable buff abilities that only modify summoned items

    Conjure Weapon Enhancements:
    • of Fire - Flaming effect - +Fire Damage / %Chance to give DoT
    • of Ice - Frozen effect - +Ice Damage / %Chance to Slow
    • of Energy - Lightning effect - +Energy Damage / %Chance to Mez
    • of Blessing - +Damage Vs Undead / %CHance to buff Max Health
    • of Spirit - Spirit effect - +Drain Life
    • Conjure Shield Enhancements (5 Tiers of Each)
    • of Resilience - +Armor / %Chance to buff Physical Resistances on Hit
    • of Deflection - +Block / %Chance to Heal on Hit
    • of the Ether - Ethereal Armor / %Chance to become immune to next attack
    • of Spikes - Damage Shield
    As I'm actually currently working on a character that will be a KNOC as her primary class; I would support these abilities as well. I really like being able to vary my 'enhancements' at a moment's notice.

    Might I also suggest that in line with that manner of thinking, however, that as one of the previous posters mentioned, that there be passive abilities that would allow you to stack on multiple effects that would be exclusive to KNOC. Scaling its effect up with level could be a valid idea. Something along the lines of Blessed Enhancements I (level 35), Blessed Enhancements II (level 65), Blessed Enhancements III (level 85).

    For example, make it similar to the 'teching' of gear... i.e. Tier 1 and 2, you could only have one of those special effects on. Tier 3 and 4 two of those special effects on. Finally, Tier 5 and 6, three of those special effects on.

    This would put it in line along with some of Amon's thinking for the 'techs' and the like that he wanted to implement. I am sure that most players would appreciate that kind of attention as well, I know I would.

    One final thing that I would suggest adding, would be two more passive abilities that would improve Parry and Block chance with level. As KNOC are meant to be primarily 'hack-and-slash' types, these two abilities would make sense and give them a significant amount of survivability.

    I do recall that KNOC get Improved Block, but adding Improved Parry, and scaling them both up with level, such as with the Sorceror's 'Awareness', the Spiritist's 'Dissipate' and 'Ethereal Armor', as well as the Monk's plethora of different dodges (i.e. improved dodge, exceptional dodge, preternatural dodge.)

    This would also be in line with the fact that KNOCs receive divine blessings from Istara herself.

    One final note, please don't take away any of the KNOC's ability to use arcane spells... :x Using spells gives KNOCs the ability to vary their attack style and I don't want to be an 'arcane knight' who can't use magic... >.>;

    All in all, I see some very good suggestions here and I truly hope to see them implemented. I already have one KNOC to 100... but... she's supposed to be a Sorceress, so I never use KNOC anyhow. I think, these changes could make a very big difference in the number of people who'd decide to play it.

    Ri'ta'ra'thi Is'mi'nei: Season 100 ADV/100 CRA/100 BLK(former)/100 LSH/ 657 million hoard

  5. #105

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Litarath View Post
    As I'm actually currently working on a character that will be a KNOC as her primary class; I would support these abilities as well. I really like being able to vary my 'enhancements' at a moment's notice.

    Might I also suggest that in line with that manner of thinking, however, that as one of the previous posters mentioned, that there be passive abilities that would allow you to stack on multiple effects that would be exclusive to KNOC. Scaling its effect up with level could be a valid idea. Something along the lines of Blessed Enhancements I (level 35), Blessed Enhancements II (level 65), Blessed Enhancements III (level 85).

    For example, make it similar to the 'teching' of gear... i.e. Tier 1 and 2, you could only have one of those special effects on. Tier 3 and 4 two of those special effects on. Finally, Tier 5 and 6, three of those special effects on.

    This would put it in line along with some of Amon's thinking for the 'techs' and the like that he wanted to implement. I am sure that most players would appreciate that kind of attention as well, I know I would.

    One final thing that I would suggest adding, would be two more passive abilities that would improve Parry and Block chance with level. As KNOC are meant to be primarily 'hack-and-slash' types, these two abilities would make sense and give them a significant amount of survivability.

    I do recall that KNOC get Improved Block, but adding Improved Parry, and scaling them both up with level, such as with the Sorceror's 'Awareness', the Spiritist's 'Dissipate' and 'Ethereal Armor', as well as the Monk's plethora of different dodges (i.e. improved dodge, exceptional dodge, preternatural dodge.)

    This would also be in line with the fact that KNOCs receive divine blessings from Istara herself.

    One final note, please don't take away any of the KNOC's ability to use arcane spells... :x Using spells gives KNOCs the ability to vary their attack style and I don't want to be an 'arcane knight' who can't use magic... >.>;

    All in all, I see some very good suggestions here and I truly hope to see them implemented. I already have one KNOC to 100... but... she's supposed to be a Sorceress, so I never use KNOC anyhow. I think, these changes could make a very big difference in the number of people who'd decide to play it.
    Yes too all of the above.. :) and i have to ask this cos its a requirement in my daily schedule... Any chance shining blades can be made = to Dark cyclone?
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  6. #106

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Just an idea to throw out there..

    How about an ability called Conjurered Armour

    Unlike the other shields (like CoT) this just adds a buff to current HP something like
    Tier 1 300hp
    Tier 2 600hp
    Tier 3 900hp
    Tier 4 1200hp
    tier 5 1500000000000hp (jk about this one)

    perhaps it only blocks say 30% of incoming damage so its not quite as strong as Shield of Gold
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  7. #107
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Didn't see this suggested, forgive me if I missed it:
    The KnoC should be able to summon a spear: like the current summonable weapons, but a 1H spear. KNoC doesn't get 1H Pierce, but none of the arcane warriors do. It could use 1H Slash for combat, but do piercing damage.

    Second, let the KnoC summon 1 piece of armor, in addition to a shield -- a magic helmet, or magic gauntlets. Just that, no other armor. Let the helmet give the KnoC a buff to an arcane magic skill, to a fighting skill, or something like blight immunity (blight being the opposite of creation). Gauntlets, a boost to block or parry, or fighting skill.

    Spear and Magic Helmet. Please?

  8. #108

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Quote Originally Posted by Daulnay View Post
    Didn't see this suggested, forgive me if I missed it:
    The KnoC should be able to summon a spear: like the current summonable weapons, but a 1H spear. KNoC doesn't get 1H Pierce, but none of the arcane warriors do. It could use 1H Slash for combat, but do piercing damage.

    Second, let the KnoC summon 1 piece of armor, in addition to a shield -- a magic helmet, or magic gauntlets. Just that, no other armor. Let the helmet give the KnoC a buff to an arcane magic skill, to a fighting skill, or something like blight immunity (blight being the opposite of creation). Gauntlets, a boost to block or parry, or fighting skill.

    Spear and Magic Helmet. Please?
    Why not go with a magical maul also? doesn't matter if they get no actual skill in crush anyway.. let the player decide how to overcome that obstacle.
    Gwain Drago - Mystic Paladin
    Arzel - Knight of creation/Battlemage
    Aurakvoar - Ancient Lunus

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Since summoning weapons and armor (well, shield) form the core of what's a KnoC, and most of the options expand that, push it a little further.

    Let the KnoC summon weapons with a few (3) different aspects, that give different powers/advantages. Do the same with shields, and/or helms. Let a given combination of sword/shield or sword/helm give an additional bonus, related to the advantages each grants individually. For example, with the Sword of Energy and the Shield of Ether Amarie Ancalimon proposed, you would also get something like a bonus to evasion in addition to the other benefits. With the 5 sword and 4 shield benefits she proposed, another 20 benefits would have to be added. On the other hand, making a lower number of summonable swords and shields with less than 20 synergistic benefits would allow more variety in KnoCs, without just weapon effects on the base sword. (Something like 3-4 weapons and 3 shields would be 6-7 bonuses, plus 9-12 synergy bonuses.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    So, I'm back (I'm a Military Police Officer now, woot) and I was excited at the prospects of having some changes to the KnoC class, but I see nothing's really been done other than a slight nerf to the Blessing of Istaria. Is there current word as to what's being floated by the devs on this class? Any ideas that are liked, any ideas that are outright not going to happen?

    There have been some spectacular suggestions put forth by the community, but very little solid discussion from the development team. I don't mean that as a dig or an insult, but we're kinda regurgitating ideas with little direction. A small amount of discussion from someone who knows what can be done, what can't be done and what will not be done for class integrity would be fantastic.

    I for one, will put forth the idea for summoned armor again. It's one of the best ideas in-keeping with the lore of the class and one that is almost universally agreed on by the contributors to this thread (albeit with a few differences).

    Other than that I'll reiterate something I said last year; the KnoC are supposed to be warriors in the service of Istaria and yet they only have one "blessing" ability. Perhaps adding some other type of ability that reflects their patron goddess' guidance/protection/teachings? Something unique that won't step on the Paladin's toes, but adds some flavor to the KnoC.

    Also, as I've stressed in the past, these changes should be for levels 20-100. Not just 80+. It seems people here are so used to being max level in everything that they've forgotten what it's like to struggle in lower levels. We have to stop thinking as if there won't ever be new players and adding abilities and quests for endgame. Endgame looks great, beginning and midgame look awful. Give all the classes fun and interesting abilities that make leveling more enjoyable.

    -Q

  11. #111

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Slight bit of necromancy here, but I was thinking a bit about KNoC, as I am wont to do from time to time, and had an idea for a potentially easy, short-term middle-ground 'fix'. A lot of the new techs applicable to weapons via kits seem to be pretty phenomenal, and while KNoC's summoned weapon has some solid stats, it misses out on all of that.

    Shy of working up some fancy system like discussed in this thread, perhaps their summon abilities could simply summon a sword/shield that are permanent and can have a single tech kit applied, or whatever is appropriate for tier. The weapon/shield would obviously need to have no value, be untradeable, etc., but it'd be an excellent and easy stopgap for nudging KNOC into a more playable state by making the awesome range of tech kits out there available.

    Just a thought!

  12. #112

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    recently 2 of my alts took knoc schools.. I was very disappointed in what it had to offer. I thought after 3 years of discussing it, some changes might have been implemented. I was very excited when I started the class. and disappointed not long after. also the summoned items, don't allow you to equip craft tools, unless you manually shut off the summoned item. I found that to be a hassle. was just glad to finally be done with that class, and move on to the next

  13. #113

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Discussions that's all its been. Any changes you would have seen in release notes. I don't think we ever reached a good consensus on what should change or how about the school. And, quite honestly, its been very low priority because it is a prestige school and other issues seem more important.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  14. #114

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Knight of Creation

    Thanks for the info. At least they now have the school, if anything new does develop

  15. #115

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Basic Schools (Levels 1 to 10)

    Following up on this as I know there are some players who are interested. We're looking at including Knight of Creation overhaul as part of the next content update. Here's a description of what we're considering, it contains elements of the previous proposal, but includes other pieces as well as a new mechanic (specializations). Feedback, comments, and suggestions are encouraged.

    Knight of Creation

    Why Revamp?

    Knoc’s are an extremely underused school in Istaria.

    • Weapons are not balanced with weapons of a similar tier
    • Weapons and Shields cannot accept techniques or sockets since they are temporary
    • No variety in the weapon or shield type, making them rather dull


    What to do?
    What if Knights of Creation did not have "Summon Weapon" or "Summon Shield" abilities by default? Rather, they had "Specialization" abilities that when used, gave them a buff that granted additional, specific abilities?

    Abilities:

    • 1-Handed Specialization (when used gives a buff “1-Handed Sword and Axes Specialization”)
    • 2-Handed Specialization (when used gives a buff “2-Handed Swords and Axes Specialization”)
    • Shield Specialization (when used gives a buff “Shield Specialization”)


    Would these be usable outside of the Knoc school? No, they would be exclusive abilities.

    Limits: Players can only have one weapon-specialization buff active at a time.

    Augmentations:

    • Specialized in 1-H Swords and Axes (while equipped grants: Summon Broadsword, Summon Longsword, Summon Shortsword, Summon Hand Axe)
    • Specialized in 2-H Swords and Axes (while equipped grants: Summon Claymore, Summon Battle-Axe, Summon Long-Axe)
    • Specialized in Shields (while equipped grants: Summon Tower Shield, Summon Round Shield)


    Summoned weapons would have a naming convention: Dusky, Pallid, Gleaming, Beaming, Shimmering and would be available every 20 levels.

    • Broadsword at levels TBD
    • Longsword at levels TBD
    • Shortsword at levels TBD
    • Hand Axe at levels 13, 33, 53, 73, 93
    • Claymore at levels 17, 37, 57, 77, 97
    • Battle-Axe at levels TBD
    • Long-Axe at levels TBD
    • Tower Shield at levels TBD
    • Round Shield at levels TBD


    Weapon/Shield Enhancements
    These would be temporary buffs that the player could “cast” on themselves that would only be usable if an appropriate conjured item was present.

    Limits: A player may have one Weapon Enhancement buff, one Shield Enhancement buff, and one Summoned Item Enhancement buff active at a given time.


    • Weapon Enhancements:
      • All require keyword: summoned_weapon
      • Conjure Fiery Weapon
        • Available at levels 5, 25, 45, 65, and 85
        • of Fire - Flaming effect - +Fire Damage / %Chance to give DoT

      • Conjure Frozen Weapon
        • Available at levels 7, 27, 47, 67, and 87
        • of Ice - Frozen effect - +Ice Damage / %Chance to Slow

      • Conjure Energized Weapon
        • Available at levels 11, 31, 51, 75, 91
        • of Energy - Lightning effect - +Energy Damage / %Chance to Mez

      • Conjure Blessed Weapon
        • Available at levels 13, 33, 53, 73, 93
        • of Blessing - +Damage Vs Undead / %CHance to buff Max Health

      • Conjure Vampiric Weapon
        • Available at levels 17, 37, 57, 77, 97
        • of Spirit - Spirit effect - +Drain Life

    • Shield Enhancements (5 Tiers of Each)
      • All require keyword: summoned_armor
      • Conjure Resilience
        • Available at levels 3, 23, 43, 63, 83
        • of Resilience - +Armor / %Chance to buff Physical Resistances on Hit

      • Conjure Deflection
        • Available at levels 9, 29, 49, 69, 89
        • of Deflection - +Block / %Chance to Heal on Hit

      • Conjure the Ether
        • Available at levels 15, 35, 55, 75, 95
        • of the Ether - +Ethereal Armor / %Chance to become immune to next attack

      • Conjure Spikes
        • Available at levels 19, 39, 59, 79, 99
        • of Spikes - Damage Shield vs incoming melee/ranged attacks

    • Summoned Item Enhancements (5 Tiers of Each)
      • All require keyword: summoned_item
      • Conjure Strength
        • Of Strength - +Strength

      • Conjure Dexterity
        • Of Dexterity - +Dexterity

      • Conjure Power
        • Of Power - +Power

      • Conjure Focus
        • Of Focus - +Focus

      • Conjure Health
        • Of Health - +Health
    Last edited by AmonGwareth; April 5th, 2017 at 05:38 PM. Reason: clarified specialization limit
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  16. #116

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Basic Schools (Levels 1 to 10)

    This revamp of KNoC sounds really good to me!
    Terao (Gnome, Grand Master Crafter, Order [Unity])|Draigourn (Ancient, Master Lairshaper, Lunus, Order)|Echentrial (Ancient, Lunus, Order)

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Basic Schools (Levels 1 to 10)

    I'd certainly be interested to see where this goes!
    Istara's Chosen Guildmaster
    Experienced Hunter, Healer, and Grand Master Crafter

  18. #118

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Basic Schools (Levels 1 to 10)

    These generally really sound good.

    I was hoping for some new models of weapons too, is that what the Claymore is?

    Question about the summoned effects:
    Limits: A player may have one Weapon Enhancement buff, one Shield Enhancement buff, and one Summoned Item Enhancement buff active at a given time


    but then each of the enhancements requires summoned_x. Above that, they can only use 1 Specialization at a time, which grants either three 1h weapons, three 2h weapons, or 3 shields. Are those in addition to other summoned items? If so, then the summoned effects make sense. If these are the only source of summoned items, then someone wouldn't be able to have all three at once.

    I guess I just need to understand it a little bit more.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Basic Schools (Levels 1 to 10)

    but then each of the enhancements requires summoned_x. Above that, they can only use 1 Specialization at a time, which grants either three 1h weapons, three 2h weapons, or 3 shields. Are those in addition to other summoned items? If so, then the summoned effects make sense. If these are the only source of summoned items, then someone wouldn't be able to have all three at once.


    One WEAPON Specialization at a time. You could have a Weapon AND Shield Specialization active simultaneously. Weapons and Shields both count as Summoned Items so you can have one weapon enhancement, one shield enhancement, and one general item enhancement active at the same time. It is meant to prevent two weapon or two shield or two item and so forth from being active simultaneously.

    Existing Knoc summons would be incorporated into this system. There won't be an "old" way and a "new" way side by side.
    "Alea iacta est" -- Julius Caesar

    Toot shouted, voice shrill, "In the name of the Pizza Lord! Charge!" (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files)

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will spends it whole life believing that it is stupid." -- Albert Einstein

  20. #120

    Default Re: Talk to the Team: Basic Schools (Levels 1 to 10)

    Thanks.

    Any new models for the weapons or shields?

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