Desirable Guild Communities

[Yfelvik]

A support request came in that was talking about dragon guild communities and how the really nice ones were already taken. If there's guild communities (dragon or biped) that are undesirable, and you have an idea of what could be done to make them better, please reply with specifics. I'm unsure what those details are, but if we can be specific about what needs to be fixed with undesirable guild communities, then a work ticket can be defined. Please note, it's really important to be specific.

Please note that this thread is not for discussing guild ownership, etc. This is specifically for answering the question "What could be done to make guild community xyz better?"

(The first step in "fixing" any guild community would be to lock out the community so nobody can purchase it until the changes are completed. World updates can not be applied where there are dragon chambers - lair positions and connectivity can be broken)

[ArchDemon]

you could add houseing items to draw those players back like chairs and tables and such?

id say open all the non active plots so at least the ones that were not active can be used for crafting things.. or storing things.. As long as they cant remove the owners things of the plot Till you fellas figure something out.

[meepsa]

the thing that makes most guild communities undesirable, is that they're boring, the reason why people pick up the dragon communities as quick as they can is because they are unique, Ker'Tis has the whole frozen aspect, the two islands are, well, whole islands specificly for that guild. (I guess Kir'Ignat also counts, but not sure what makes that one special).

most biped guild communities have nothing inherently special about them, they mostly just look like they are all the same, add some tiny things to spruce up the areas surrounding the guild communities, and there should be an influx of people actually interested in buying them.

Examples:
A cave system underneath a community (a lá mines), not neccesarily with something in it, but a room to gather up in as a group or something.
A system of bridges across some platforms in trees.
A fortification around the guild borders.

[Drakarius Shadows]

I would like to see more guild communities in which the master plot is a large lair.

[Machaeon]

Honestly, I think the biggest problem with most of the guild locations is that there simply isn't anything there to draw someone in aside from "Oh hey there's a spot I can build on". Locations with an interesting aesthetic are always good to draw people in, the dragon guild islands are very picturesque so they get bought up quickly. From what I've seen, a location's blandness can be forgiven if there's resources nearby. *eyes Mithril's Anvil* I have yet to see a populated "bland" community that has no resources nearby even though all or most of the plots are within 100m of a portal/pad.

Let's be honest, there's three major reasons why the average player buys a plot:

1. "OMG this location is beautiful/perfect for my RP needs! I'm buying this one before anyone else can!"
2. "You mean I can harvest XYZ right here and use my own machines and storage?! Sign me up!"
3. "I'm new and I haven't tried a plot yet... oh look this one's cheap!"
   
   And more rarely but still significant:
   
4. "This provides all the space I need for (insert desires of plot here)!" (largest plots)
5. "This place will let my guild have plenty of space to do whatever it needs!" (lots of plots per master plot and/or large plots)

Now to be specific (and very biased as I own the master plot on Order here) Guild: Aki is a decent location to be sure, has enough space and enough plots to provide for a guild and isn't horribly far from t5 resources. It is, however, very bland to look at. It's not a spot I would go to vacationing for sure, brown dry grass and dirt as far as the eye can see. If that was a unique aspect of the location, then that might be desired for its uniqueness but that defines a large number of the guild locations to be honest: dirt and grass, dirt and snow, dirt and stone, dirt and dry grass, etc. Makes one wonder why horrendous erosion isn't a huge problem in Istaria.

Mia's Edge isn't a guild location, but I'll use it as an example of a relatively desirable location: it does have an interesting layout (at least something more interesting than flat, flat, flat), some nice water features, a nice ocean view, and even some azulyte in the crater for your aspiring lairshaper or alchemist if you don't mind a bit of a hike.

[Anzha]

As a new person just beginning to look at real estate I think Machaeon has summed it up very nicely.
I've run around having a look even though nothing's actually in my price range yet.
Mostly I think I'd want either a plot that either:

a) is close to needed resources.
Example - Falathien has a lot of space and is convenient to cobalt, obsidian, and maple.

b) is picturesque/unique looking.
This is a big one, most of the plots are just big flat square areas. I'd like to see more interesting layouts / surroundings. Trees & such. Bridges. Prettiness.

c) is convenient to get to. While most places do have portal access, these are limited, requiring multiple zoning(s) to go back and forth and/or a lot of running. Ideally you'd want a plot somewhere you're going to be going anyway, like near a city or resource node you need frequently.

I think really what would help would be to just dress things up a bit, make things more visually appealing. A lot of the communities seem to have roads that just stop , these could do with being a bit better connected esp. since you're likely hauling a disk full of something. Perhaps some different city layouts as well, so you could make something more like a town and less like a grid of individual block cities and towering silos.

[meepsa]

hmmm, all this talk about squares makes me wonder....would there be a way of adding differently shaped plots? though I guess that would show up weird in the plot info (the "50x50" wouldn't be possible), what I was thinking about, to make the idea a bit more clear, is for example a cross shaped plot with slight hills around it.

you know, get some odd shapes in there.

[Scalarra]

I've been wondering about this exact thing for a while.

The ideas I had being:

More plots off on their own and in "strange" places. For the loners. Maybe up the price on those, or lower them.

Desert lairs. Maybe an alternate option from Lunus or Helian, or just the location. Although Helian looks deserty enough on the inside, but my main basis is location.

More designs, maybe. A few differently shaped houses for each tier? Maybe a few to imitate more "shambled" and disheveled buildings. Not unbuilt, but destroyed.

Aside from those, I would definitely suggest more scenery. I don't exactly have a good idea of how much land space the game could get, but nearby safe, scenic places. Like the lake near Genevia, except without the portal there. Places with no monsters, no resources, and no buildings in sight. Just a few lonely plots.

I would personally just adore a lair like the dragon Tinkerer (whose name fails me at this moment), the little porch decorations. My partner at one time suggested to have overhangs optional for the front of your lair. Ivy hanging down, banners, etc.

Also: for people playing with partners, perhaps the ability to share a plot with a specific person without being friends only, guild only, etc.

I hope this even remotely sticks to the question, I have quite the headache so my reading comprehension is a bit...bleh. Hope something I say helps.



I also would like oddly shaped plots, but with the #x# layout..that would be a long series. A bit far-fetched, but perhaps instead of written dimensions, there is a list of XS, S, M, L, XL, XXL or so on, and when you hover over the plot, you get a window with a preview picture pop up, like with items. Said preview could have the sides labeled.

For example:

[shadowrain2]

I echo Machaeon's comments. There are a limited number of (4 to be precise) dragon-only guild communities, these being Kir'Drakul, Aedan, Serenity, and Ker'Tis. The latter 3 all have beautifully designed aesthetic features that are unique not found anywhere else in Istaria (Serenity has a waterfall that you have to fly thru to get into the master lair, Aedan has giant tree roots that surround the entrance to the guild master lair, both of the latter two are their own islands, Ker'Tis is on an ice lake with a portal and pad all its own, and Kir'Drakul has not much to speak of aesthetically except for the grand sized lair which all of them have in common. One of the biggest pulls for all 4 of these is the Grand-sized master lairs which can fit not only 1, but 2 grand halls within them if desired. This space alone is a large pull for guilds to have meetings and gatherings as well as guild storage for items and crafting materials. The other nice draw to these dragon-only guild communities is the fact that new players can afford the price of the lairs within them (412s 500c) and this also offers a nice sense of community for players since everyone in the guild can be in the same location (family-oriented if you will). If features like these could be implemented into other currently guild communities (waterfalls, ice ponds, tree roots, grand-sized lairs, etc) it would add more aesthetically pleasing and level playing field for those guild communities that are overlooked and collecting dust. While more guild-islands made exclusively of plots/lairs for one guild would also be highly appealing I realize that would likely take a level of work that would be unrealistic to consider given the more important large-scale tasks the dev team is currently undertaking.

To sum up the two major changes that could be made to current "unloved" guild communities to make them more like the "4 biggies" would be
1) More unique aesthetically pleasing features (waterfalls, ice ponds, lavapools, desert craters, etc)
2) More grand-sized lairs then the only 4 that are currently in the game

[Guaran]

I would propose a re-shaping (edit so as not to break any existing connectivity) of all the lair entrances, and perhaps making one or 2 new styles. The Dalimond style, used in green grassy and desert areas, could be covered with vines/moss. The Dralk lava style needs shaved down, get rid of the same old big rock appearance. Flatten it and make it out of lava or ashen colored rock. Could even have some Dragon symbols etched into it. The snow area lairs, change it to a Clear-ish Ice and/or blue Crystals (like the floating crystals in choconis) and slightly shave it back. But please get rid of the ugly rock style used all over.

Second thing, add a side-door at the bottom of the lair entrances, that goes to a pre-built or buildable decorative chamber. With different ones for different areas/lair entrances. A lava pool for dralk area lairs, a small pool with some plants/garden for the grassy dalimond area lairs, could even have a small waterfall inside dropping into the pool. A hot steaming pool for the snow area lairs. Or allow it to be chosen and then built.

Make a new jungle style entrance. Shave down the rock face, maybe add some temple looking features such as whats seen on the green pyramid around sslanis or the teleporter at the Sakon landing pad.. a sslanis style look. Take that teleporter in Sakon and edit it onto the front of the entrance and reshape the circle. Like its an entrance to some ancient underground temple of sslisk design. Use this in forest areas.

Make a new desert entrance for lairs in desert areas, and make these look like the Egyptian style structures, with some different dragon symbols carved onto the face. Could also use some of the gnomian style pieces on some of these. In fact make 2 versions, one can have the gnomian electrodes and other mechanisms for decorations. Use that in only a few lairs nearby to New Rachival, and the lair to the Cargo disk form vendor.

If the existing entrance models could simply be edited, without modifying the connection point to the ground/world and the connection point to the existing lair, I think they could be spruced up and it would make a world of difference.


Resize some smaller lairs to be larger would help. Especially those in the biped guild plots (yes I own one), since those tend to be on the small side.

More decoration in the vicinity of the lairs would also help as others have suggested. Additional ponds,flowers etc where appropriate. Some of the orange crystals poking out of the dralk lair entrances, small lava flows. Trandalar could use more decorative snowy trees north of the rift. It's so plain looking up there.

[Tilithia]

I support idea of different dragon lair entrances,more theme like. I think that alone would help a lot. if not new entrance model then at least reskin it.

[LOVWYRM]

There has been a research many many years ago:What does the community want to see in settlements.
If my memory serves me right, Genevia was the result- kinda first settlement created after that research.

Its still a good example: 4 different kind of creatures living there, nice ponds and lakes and rivers, bridges, nice decorations.
Many plots still much too small there.
In Heather I love the plot with the cows infront- I had it for a long while- gave it away cause it is too small.
Waters Edge has nice plots and as said before Mia`s Edge is a wonderful place. Those and some other settlements I cant remember the names atm can be an example . Our guild plots are -well depressing- some even look like they do not belong to Istaria.. Would be nice to see a change there.

[Aaelefein]

With the much needed and appreciated changes to workshop storage, size may or may not be one of the major components now (thought you can't ignore the psychological impact of bigger = better, more powerful, etc)

So putting size aside for the moment (though think there are still too many 'small' plots/lairs), after the cookie-cutter design of plots in general (Agree with a lot of previously stated ideas) I think it comes down to:

Location:

• Resource availability
• Scenery
• Nearness of Outgoing Gate and Arrival Pad
• Uniqueness of said location

With one exception which I'll get to, all the above applies to most plots/lairs and not just those in guild communities. As to the exception I would make it two: 1) The mandatory guildhall on the master plot (not sure if its the same for Dragon Lair locations) which in most cases takes up at least 75% of useable space (those large guildhalls are rotten when it comes to square footage vs storage) and 2) Combined with the above, it takes up the plot slot for the player/owner. These are the primary reasons why I didn't go with a guild community years back when I was running five subs.

I would eliminate the mandatory Guildhall, or if not eliminate, at least not require that it be the biggest possible for the given plot size; and secondly - make the master plot bound to the guild, not the purchaser (though it should be the guild master that initiates the purchase)

Now...

I have no idea what the artistic capability of the current development team is or what assets are still available or were developed for ideas from years ago...additional suggestions...

Just as Dragon Lairs go DOWN into the ground, how about something that goes UP into Trees - something I believe was being toyed with several years back. As this would be geared towards Dryads and probably Elves due to the smaller size/limitations of trees (esp. those like near Bristugo that I believe were designed for said idea) - it is unlikely someone like the Half-Giants would be able to enter, and certainly not a Dragon (except in their biped form). the again, not sure I'd want a fire breathing dragon inside my tree house.

Similar to that, why not something that goes into hills/ground with a Dwarven and or Gnomish motif...where the rooms, shops, etc. have lower ceilings and scaled to their smaller size. While more races might be able to enters, you can be sure that Dryads and Elves would feel a bit uncomfortable there, humans a bit disquieted, Half-Giants down on their hands and knees and none but the smallest Dragons (hatchlings, Khutet form (sp?)) could enter.

Bring back and or expand the Ssilk and Saris racial houses/building (never really understood why they were removed in the first place) and or add unique enclaves suited to their race.

Right now my brain isn't coming up with anything suited to Half-Giants.

Just some ideas I had while in the shower (one of my better thinking places...driving and in bed being the other two - TMI? LOL)


Aaelefein

PS - Yes, I still have my Lair and large plot in Valley of Repose

[Terao]

Location:

• Resource availability
• Scenery
• Nearness of Outgoing Gate and Arrival Pad
• Uniqueness of said location

I would eliminate the mandatory Guildhall, or if not eliminate, at least not require that it be the biggest possible for the given plot size; and secondly - make the master plot bound to the guild, not the purchaser (though it should be the guild master that initiates the purchase)

Aelefein nailed it down, I think this is exact how people are searching for a plot, that's why me wife and me hold the three plots at Old Oaks (Order Server), it's near the Mithril, the plot size is nice (all three 100x100), and a landing pad is near (Imperial Outpost).

Changing the ownership of the master guild plot to guild and not a player would be great. But I think it is difficult then how and who pays for the plot?

[Anzha]

I love the idea of treehouses and subterranean houses!

One more thing I thought I'd mention that could help add a bit of area 'appeal' -
Other than those vine-covered archways most of the communities/settlements don't have any 'flair' of their own.

For example, what if in Desert's Edge and Dryart, there was some of that tazoon-style architecture kicking around, between the plots, like walls or fountains or etc. Each area/race has its own unique style and tying that in would go a long way. Using the assets already in existence in the game. There are plenty of different 'styles' that even if they aren't player buildable, could certainly add personality to an area instead of it just being hills, green, squares, and maybe a tree or two. I'm thinking of communities over near Feladan that could have some of that nice Elvish looking stuff, perhaps a walled city like feladan itself with the plots separated by archways.

[Ming]

One of the biggest drawbacks to guild communities is that only one plot is of decent size. In Sem, for example, the adjacent plots and the lairs are too small for guild members to want them. I took one because, well, I'm too lazy to build my own shops. The surrounding area isn't pretty either. I was told there isn't enough room, but the small plots could be combined into bigger ones! We all have such great suggestions and I hope someone.....changes things.

[Solarrian]

I agree with others that have stated that the communities need more decoration and stuff to make them feel more 'real and alive'.

I am still new to the game so haven't seen a lot of the things that have evolved to lead up to this point but I can really see the need to change in this area.

I have been looking for a place to build now that my dragon has lvled to the point where it is practical to do so. This is just my observations from a new player that has messed with housing in other games. I will address both what see on plots and lairs and qualify that I haven't decided if I want a plot/lair or both and that the guild I am in does not currently use any of the guild communities atm.

The main thing I see is a lot of tiny lots that will remain empty even if the area around the plots are improved. And by tiny I am referring to anything under 60x60. Personally I am not interested in a plot under 80x80. I want to have the space to build the buildings I would like and still have some open space. From what I have seen this would be one of the primary reasons the guild I am in doesn't have a community atm. Guild members that do have plots that I have seen are 80x80 or better and except for two in one settlement and now three in another ( two of which just had opened up, 80x80 or larger, one of which I almost got myself but wasn't ready yet) the guild is scattered all over. Simply size does matter for both options and prestige.

Now with that said size would not matter as much if the site had other prestige that would make it desirable... ie close to very important resource spots, a fort or other style community bordering or in the blight areas ( I know this would be tough to add but could be cool and add to the lore )

Now as for Lairs it would be nice to see more wider lairs even if they are shorter. I will fully agree the typical lair entrance is ugly I may understand a Lunus might not mind but a Helian would like something a bit more flashy even if it was a added price and or work for them to obtain.

My feeling on this is if you can merge some of the unoccupied guild communities that are near each other together and merge the plots into larger plots my feeling is that guilds would take them for more sense of community and might be enough to encourage others into owning a plot.

Just a little rambling from a newer player adding my two cents worth...

[Aaelefein]

Aelefein nailed it down, I think this is exact how people are searching for a plot, that's why me wife and me hold the three plots at Old Oaks (Order Server), it's near the Mithril, the plot size is nice (all three 100x100), and a landing pad is near (Imperial Outpost).

Changing the ownership of the master guild plot to guild and not a player would be great. But I think it is difficult then how and who pays for the plot?

If they aren't already, couldn't a guild be set up to have an associated 'player' file which in this case would only be used for managing guild property and money? As to the latter, as far as I'm aware, guilds don't have banks*/wallets as in many other games; or for that matter ways to generate income from sales (at say a Consigner/Pawnbroker on the master guild plot), sales of community plots/lairs (as just a couple examples)

*When I say banks I'm not referring to vaults - but on that note a guild vault would be nice with accessibility based on rankings within the guild. (Just a thought that popped into my head when editing for clarification)

[shadowrain2]

Another idea occurred to me. It would be nice to have "extra features" in a guild community or something unique only to guild community plots/lairs that would help give these some desirability over solo lairs and plots. For instance say you could add a herd of cattle that wander in between the guild plots or holiday decorations on the bare land in between plots (not taking up space on the plots themselves). Perhaps you still need to construct these options (ice ponds, resource nodes, etc), but you could still switch them out as desired. Perhaps an easier way to do this would be for players to purchase these guild community options from a loyalty token vendor such as a "cattle lease permit" or a " seasonal pumpkin patch" or a "temporary fishing pond" etc. Temporary resource nodes could be "geology sites" or "small forests" etc and increase in cost of loyalty tokens based on the tier of resource (T1 temporary resource node permits cost 1 loyalty token up to T5 being 5 tokens, etc). This loyalty token model could also be used to decorate a lair entrance (vines on the rock entrance, icicles, lava streams, crystal, etc). No doubt this might be more challenging to actually put into coding and I cannot begin to imagine how complicated it would be to code where to place the "temporary nodes" or "wandering cattle herd" etc, but it would certainly add some level of benefit to being in a guild community over a solo lair if you could spice up the outside of your lair as you choose or have the benefit of adding resource nodes at will and change them with the use of loyalty tokens. This way guild communities can work together on each resource at a time needed for construction on every plot/lair and then change it out when the next resource is needed. Just a fun idea, but again no idea how complicated that might be to actually code.

[Dracaena]

From what I have seen lairs are actually underutilized for the simple reason many people are phobic about going into them, trying to find a particular room and then get back out. Most are freaked by the time they do find, if they find, what room they want and do a panic recall out.

I have lairs set up for guild storage and nobody dares go in even if the item is on the first floor. If yours is a biped/dragon guild even the dragons in such a guild often opt for a biped plot so they don't get lost. The times I've had guild members go look for things in one of my lairs, the feedback I get is "Don't you ever make me go in there again!".

I find it disheartening as a long time lair shaper that most will never see my creations. If there was some way to help with navigation within a lair I think that would do wonders. What would be really neat is a magic wisp to show you to the exit (*has faint memories of how the magic light paths worked in bazaar in original EverQuest to find what booth you wanted*). Maybe signs or new mural signs we could use to point out main areas of the lair. I say this as the owner of master lair at Serenity (Order), nobody but me roams those corridors.