Talking about Surtheim

[LOVWYRM]

To begin with: I like the new Surtheim- but I do not consider him a "lesser" anymore.
With the right tactics, schools ,equippment and buffs (aso as usual) we can get him down. NP,
But
he is a quest boss for at least 2 questlines- and those who do that quests will have problems to find an adequate group in time for that kill (remember our small population on Order^^) to be able to continue with the questlines.
just my thoughts..

[Tilithia]

Yes,i have to agree, at the moment he feels like Greater Boss more than Lesser boss.
I like the new surtheim quite a lot but he can be a big obstacle if you need him for a quest, and usually with unexperienced players fighting him for the first time,no healer,and many people don't have any means to dispel combust,its a really tough fight.

[Azath]

The greater/lesser thing - didn't amon say the only difference was with their loot pools (basically essence vs no essence and yes im aware there's exceptions) and not their strength ? - so any saying of "it feels like a greater epic" is pretty much a whole nother topic/conversation. (just saying. xD)

I personally see no issue with needing him for two questlines though.
(actually, isn't he only needed for one - volcano? i know i gave a friend some fire materia to make her stone of seeking because the crystalshaping quest only needs of you to make the stone of seeking which by extension needs a surthy to have been killed for fire materia, but doesn't require the person on the crystalshaping quest to kill him. whether that should be or should not be is i guess up for discussion.)

I may just be lucky, but in my experience most people are around at least one time where epic hunts are possible (yes, on both shards)...and with the new token system most people (except for the majority of veterans who got everything already and a minority of the playerbase who are struggle-for-playtime-so-no-point people) will take up any hunt offered to them especially now that groups are mandatory for all lessers.

I've seen an increase in fighting lesser epics of all kinds since the lessers got empowered, and while it's true surthy is done less commonly it is not that he's become the new daknor (ie never hunted except when multiple people need him) it's that he's done just as commonly as all the other lesser epics - more commonly compared to other lessers, due to quest involvement - that is, often once per day a couple times a week.

So...i've seen nobody yet struggle for surth kill for volcano (i hate to repeat myself but personal experience. xD) because most people literally just need to ask the community to get together to get a surthy kill going (and no offense to the shy people but this a "multiplayer" game and community is what we do) for most nearly any/all times of day, if they haven't been invited to a surthy hunt before that.

Mind that now we require lesser epics for tokens, people token grinding want to fight a lesser epic daily. The question then falls to said people, "what lesser do we fight?" and if someone says "i've got a quest for <insert any lesser epic here>" then the group is more than likely to go do it to get two birds with one stone - tokens and someones quest advanced.

I can see there being an issue if you want to get Volcano done over a short period of time, but like, why. The only times i've ever seen a race against time with quests was for people to catch up to friends (and you probably have terrible friends if they don't wait for you or are bothered a tonne if you have a lot of work upcoming/inactivity upcoming), or if they have a long period of inactivity coming soon due to work/school (in which case what's the point of getting it if you aren't going to play much). And rushing to meet epic hunts is countered by the above - people want to epic hunt now!

There's very little reason to rush in istaria...so most of us have all the time in the world to organise hunts, not neccesarily the same for doing the hunt but i'll get onto that next.

The only issue i can really see with it, from my point of veiw, is if you live in like, australia, and miss most EU-convenient hunts and a good portion of US-convenient hunts without a strange sleeping schedule. (Note: like, 97% of the playerbase is either on the continent of North of South America and will use US-convenient hunt times or a part of or bordering Europe and will use EU-convenient hunt times, the other 3% being the far east and Aus, which is a reeallly small portion of the playerbase) and anyone who's a part of that group of people will have a problem grouping up with anyone at all so have restricted access to most end game things anyway without devoting themselves to strange times to be awake. (with a few people not in that area of the world with strange daily schedules that confine them to same small community, but these are also very few and overall timezones convenient here are lonely near everyday even on chaos). I can't really think of what to do about that though.

I still love that surthiem's involved in volcano, and i do not think there is any trouble forming hunts nowadays (not even on order). Announce it on the forum and almost anyone can organise a hunt for their quest.

(or..what i'm saying is that anyone who struggles to find a hunting group should ask people via post on the forum. Chats like MP in game capture only one snapshot of time and doesnt grab the attention of those afk and such, while with the forum you can certainly say "Surthy hunt planned soon - look at forum for details!" a few times a day in a public chat to get even those who rarely look at the forum to pay attention.)

[Knossos]

Relavent quests listed here: http://www.istaria-lexica.de/Surtheim

Knossos

[Solarrian]

I am qualifying what I am saying below that a group of three very good players, one of which probably had his ped alts along, took him down yesterday ( would have had a forth so so player along but I was afk at the time...)

Right now with the epic tokens being in such high demand getting groups for epic hunts isn't a problem even for one that doesn't ask for groups much but is glad to join in when asked if I can.

The problem will be is if the demand for tokens fades once most have the new pet and stuff. It will go back to being a lot tougher to get groups to kill him and the other tougher ones. As it is not many seem to be looking to do a Reklar hunt atm for greater epic.

All that said the updated bosses are great and fun to fight, even Surth with his quick death dot if you don't have cleanse spells which I do not have yet either. At least I do have the hp now at least to mostly survive if I am careful in that fight.

[AmonGwareth]

Currently the distinction between lesser and greater is the presence of epic rewards associated with it.

My goal with the changes was to make fighting them more fun and challenging. Rather than simply 10 minutes of banging away at health, I had hoped to encourage tactics and thought about how to fight them.

The quests surtheim is needed for are all for epics so it seems fine to me that he is relatively difficult

[Guaran]

Yeah I think Surthieum is fine even after the changes. Was easily solo-able before.

[Smaug]

I dont, game is more and more just catering to the elite, leaving average players less and less they can do without just being a tagalong with the elite.

[meepsa]

I dont, game is more and more just catering to the elite, leaving average players less and less they can do without just being a tagalong with the elite.

requiring an average of at the very least 4 people, with average to end-game gear, to bring down an epic, for an epic spell (or a craft school, for which you can be traded what you need), is not elitist.

Granted that the group knows what they need to do and listens to tactics. (ie. not facerolling their keyboard)

Unless ofcourse, if you consider needing a biped as elitist, because whoa boy an average group definately requires a dedicated healer and/or mezzer for Surth now, but hey, atleast certain schools have a place in epic hunts now!

[Zoubek]

requiring an average of at the very least 4 people, with average to end-game gear, to bring down an epic, for an epic spell (or a craft school, for which you can be traded what you need), is not elitist.

Granted that the group knows what they need to do and listens to tactics. (ie. not facerolling their keyboard)

Unless ofcourse, if you consider needing a biped as elitist, because whoa boy an average group definately requires a dedicated healer and/or mezzer for Surth now, but hey, atleast certain schools have a place in epic hunts now!

You say that like getting 4-5 people in group to fight is easy, its not. Yesterday we couldn't even get one more person to help with Elial. Had to finnish it with just two people. I am regularly trying to get some hunts, almost every day asking around in channels and usually I only manage to end up with 2-3 ppl group (same people almost every time). I personally think Surth is fine and others should be buffed a bit (especially Falgut). But first it would be nice to get people interested in hunts...

[meepsa]

You say that like getting 4-5 people in group to fight is easy, its not. Yesterday we couldn't even get one more person to help with Elial. Had to finnish it with just two people. I am regularly trying to get some hunts, almost every day asking around in channels and usually I only manage to end up with 2-3 ppl group (same people almost every time). I personally think Surth is fine and others should be buffed a bit (especially Falgut). But first it would be nice to get people interested in hunts...

I've seen groups come together on order pretty frequently, can't really speak for chaos, though I know the attitude towards hunts is a lot more negative on there. it's dependant on a lot of variables, most importantly the timezone(s) and how much you advertise your hunt so to speak, do you ask only in-game or do you go on the forum as well? what about skype? I know not everyone uses/wants to use skype, but if you have contact with istarians on there as well it helps to organise a group.

I'm not saying it easy, and yes it shouldn't be that you'd have to use outside sources to get things together, but things in istaria just take a bit more organisation than things in other, more cassualised, MMOs.

[Zoubek]

I do advertise only in game via channels and tells to people I know. Since most of people I have on Skype is online at same time iam just asking in game. What saddens me is that some people prefer to just grind coin and buy all the stuff they need, then go do hunts. Let it be clear I do not need anything from epics, I have my claw, my scale and my pet. I kinda want to just do it for fun. Sorry if my previous post sounded offensive to you, I didn't meant to. Iam just getting really frustrated with this.

[lightning claw]

I will admit after coming back after years of slumber even I was semi Rosted , How ever being the hybrid tank dd that I am. Putting on my Kevlar scales and Ice claws he was an adequate challenge. Since Amon replied Hopping to get his attention again . I dont know if your ever going to spruce up the AROP but when we are making our head scale I would much rather see Sutheim be one of the elements both classes need to take down rather then Umarry or thisselface or Monsoon Just throwing it out there .


Note Yes I had to make a special scale Set Just for him . Radiant Flame Resistant crystals Flame resistance and ward on armor scales Special blight claws (Ice striking ) Fighting him takes preparation .


One other thing while we are on the subject again Umarry is no longer the king with this dynamic I ask to change Umarrys title and Put it on Surthem

[meepsa]

One other thing while we are on the subject again Umarry is no longer the king with this dynamic I ask to change Umarrys title and Put it on Surthem

Surtheim, in comparison to Umyarr is not a golem though, he's an elemental, there's kind of a difference in that golems are elementals, but elementals =/= just golems.

Golems only really applies if there is a basic material that the elemental is made of (gems, metals, stone, wood (not talking about treants, we have wood golems somewhere on the Dali peninsula if I'm not mistaken) etc.), rather than an element (wind, water, fire, etc.)

Surth (as well as most other elementals) just has a golem model because well, it's the most fitting model.
---
Then again, all of that is more personal preference rather than anything established in lore (it's been so long since I read up on Surtheim), so I could be very, very wrong here. Still, Umyarr, powerfull or not, deserves his title, not every king is crowned because of his brawn.

[lightning claw]

--- Still, Umyarr, powerfull or not, deserves his title, not every king is crowned because of his brawn.

I have got to find the lore on Umyarr to me with him its land next to him tap him and dropkick him out of the edl in 30 seconds flat .

*Evil thought * EPI the golem slayer EPIC mob can summon any golem type