Unused communities: Guilds (part 1)

[Azath]

Recently in discord this was said:

[5:05 PM] JasonM: Sanctuary Bay, Lower Sslanis, South March, Blizzard's Reach, North Mahagra, Parsinia East, Shelter Pass, Morathaven, Tiaerakis, Duskhold, Slate Hills, Elmnic, Poole, Jasper, Ember, Lightview, Crescent, Tagan, Eli, Moyo, Cameron, Cedar's Cove, Upper Bridgeview, North Parsinia, Sable Shore, Dalimond Ridge Gate, Heart, Granite Hills, Frost Boulder, Forest Guard, Selen Shore, Troy, Bridgehold, Scorpion's Claw, Surin, Nong, Toku, Jambi, Grandli, North Saritova, Amon, Sil, Haven, Imago, Mundi, Madaba, Penza, Padraig, Ar'akis, Chirdelak, Aurken, Nu'delak, Incignat, Sylrak, Myrkjira, Pyrakis, Liakis, Faldesuk, Usak, Ignatar, Soklifak, Aklet, Cre'delak, Lower Heart, King's Cross, Spire's Gate, Spire's Trail
[5:05 PM] JasonM: unowned on all three shards
(removed aroah leap and guild: breeze from this quotation as they don't have plots/exist in the case of breeze)

All these are communities in which no one currently owns a plot/lair, and I decided that i'd go through the entire list and see what's wrong with them all. And so we begin Part 1: Guild communities (part 2 is non-guild communties, and will be on a seperate thread as it tackles seperate issues. and because this is hella long.)

Of course, this is just my personal opinion - everything is up for debate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guild: Grandli - Imo, just needs a portal pad to it as currently the nearest pad is Tavu. It's a very nice community with a fantastic master plot, though the smaller plots could do with a size increase as they're all 40x40. I'd suggest merging some of the small plots together and increasing some in size (and from a scout aroud this community, it is certainly possible).

Guild: Moyo - The plots are TINY. Even the master plot is only 60x50 (and that costs 2g 800s~!) and that's supposed to fit a guild house on it, which would take up a massive amount of the plot even at it's smallest. Needs bigger plots, aside from that it's great - even has schools of bass near it so resources are there.

Guild: Cameron - Same pros/cons as Moyo but even worse. Master plot is 40x50...

Guild: Amon - The plots are small but I can also see that it'd be difficult if not impossible to make them bigger due to the nature of the surrounding area. Not sure what can be done with this community unless you expand the terrian into the sea some more- there's essentially no room to add...anything.

Guild: Sil - suffers much in the same way as Amon does, with small plots. Though similarly again, there is very little room for expansion- however, there are two plots, 35x60 and 40x60 that could both be expanded in the space in the middle of them. But what Sil has that Amon doesn't is potential for use with relatively few changes

Only requires moving some terrain so you can run up/down the mountain, and then you put fish (t5 since it's Saritova, assumedly) in the sea at the bottom of the mountain so people fishing for t5 can use Guild: Sil. An outgoing portal would also be nice somewhere in the area as niether Amon or Sil have one- though of note, the nearest portal pad to Sil is in Amon. If Amon's portal pad changes then one must be added to Sil (they are close enough that is accpetable that only one has a portal pad, but if Amon's portal pad goes then Sil must have one. Similar reason why either Amon or Sil should get an outgoing portal. UPDATE: I see on the most recent blight delta Amon got an outgoing portal, so this one thing at least has been taken care of already ahaha)
Sil & Amon could also be combined into one huge, two part guild community- Which may allow for some plots on Amon to be combined into (a) larger plot(s) for that matter. Or if Amon were to be deleted completely it may allow room for more resources to make Sil better.

Guild: Haven & Guild: Imago - Put together as these communities are quite literally right next to each other. Imago has small plots - the master is only 50x55. Haven has a decent master plot, however it also has a 72x96x240 lair which is a useless lair size since it can hardly fit some of the larger lair rooms making Haven's lair effectively useless. My suggestion would be to merge Haven and Imago into one guild community (Guild:Havago Imaven sounds less funny :P ), remove some plots in favour of making some bigger, and finally give it a portal pad as neither Haven nor Imago currently have one, and an outgoing portal would be nice too.

Guild: Mundi - 72x120x240 lair is an odd, largely useless size. Again, struggle to fit larger structures in it. Small plots, not much room for expansion but I do see a little wiggle room that could be used around most plots, or plots could be combined. Needs a water well too. Mundi could also be removed completely in favour of expanding Madaba - either by expanding space for terrain going outwards for plot expansions in Madaba or adding resources/monsters (if resources/monsters were added where Mundi currently exists then some kind of short cut up into Madaba would also need to be added to avoid the long run up there that currently exists)(removing Mundi is my personally preferred path, but of course that's up for debate.)

Guild: Madaba - 60x60 master plot is pretty bad, there's a 55x70 plot which is bigger- surely this one should be the master plot? Aside that, outgoing portal, sand pile and water well could all be added as this community only has a pad currently (which is good at least). Most plots are pretty small - in fact, there's a 45x35 plot that I think could be completely removed in favour of expanding the plots surrounding it. If the above suggestion of removing Mundi in favour of boosting Madaba in some way is taken, that would help even more so.

Guild: Padraig - Padraig is actually pretty good, could do with a pad and outgoing portal (outgoing portal would also serve Tirzah as the closest portal is in between Aki and Harmony, leaving Padraig and Tirzah in the dust). Some smaller plots could also be expanded and merged - such as there's a 40x40 and 40x50 right next to each other that could be merged, and even two 40x40s right next to each other. It also lacks a sand pile which if given would make it more useful.

Guild: Nong - Apart from having the most unappealing settlement name in the world this is pretty decent. Though theres a 35x55 plot that could be removed altogether in favour of expanding the plot next to it. There's quite a few decent sized plots here, but also several 40x55 and in sizes in that range which are awful. An outgoing portal, sand pile and water well could be added too (which would also help it's neighbour Arua which lacks all of these too). I think this community suffers from something i'll explain at the end*.

Guild: Surin - This one is pretty good actually, a lot of decent sized plots (though a few 35x50-60), close to a portal and resources (guild: sakon's portal works here, and wisp isle is the resources, as well as t4 fish in the lake in the centre which Nong also benefits from)- This community suffers for similar reasons as Nong does*. Also, the master plot is 55x60 and it's biggest plot is 80x50, far bigger- the 80x50 should be the master plot.

Guild: Toku - Lots of small plots, lots of 55x30 plots, hardly even usable, x30 is in itself an awful dimension and really at minimum a plot about be x40 on one side if it's a long plot...various 30x70 that would be nicer with 50x70, various spaces where plots could merged into each other. A few 40x55~ and similar sizes that would be usable if larger. Would also benefit highly from resources near it, and a portal pad.

Guild: Jambi - Pretty good generally, the plots are mostly decent sized but a few 55x55 could always be bigger. Same issues I will describe at the end*. At most, resources could be added somewhere near it.

Guild: Penza - Lots of small 45x55 and similar sizes plots, should be bigger. The master plot is good, but an incoming portal pad would make it better. Resources of some kind near it & its three sibling communities (aside water/sand, which Penza already has) would be good.

Guild: Eli - Small plots, could use a larger master plot. Has nearby resources (fish) which is good, and could also do with an incoming portal pad. Alternatively, this community could be removed completely, and in it's a place monsters/resources to boost the other 4 communities near it.

Guild: Tagan - Like Eli, but with lairs essentially. Larger plots needed (one is even 30x55), but the master plot is a good size at least. Similarly, incoming portal pad would be good.

Guild: North Saritova - Various plots with x30 dimensions that could be enlargened. Incoming portal pad and additional resources around it can make it more appealing. Alternatively, this community could be deleted entirely in place of resources/monsters - perhaps something which meat/animal hides can be gathered from and confectioner resources.


*Various guild communties, such as Surin, Nong and more have appealing plots, however, guild communities aren't necessarily popular.

Firstly - A guild community's master plot is integral to it's appeal- that's why various times i've pointed out that the largest plot should be the master plot where it isn't already. Because the only plot that's 100% certainly going to be owned is the master, and no one wants to spend an extra plot sub on holding a master plot so you can get access to a bigger one (see: Surin).

Secondly - Some guilds prefer having lots of plots all over the place as opposed to a central hub, and while relatively few guilds, these reap the benefits of having guild storages in popular gathering places for example.

Thirdly - If it doesn't have lairs it's already unappealing. Dragons far outnumber the bipeds, some guilds are mostly dragons who want a guild community but are forced to take a biped master plot. Perhaps some of these communities could have a lair as the master plot instead (but unlike the pre-existing dragon communities- do NOT increase the lair size as this is complicated for many communities and leads to a problem of massive lair hoarding which already exists in the 4 dragon guild communities. People would be content with having normal size master lairs.) Doesn't neccesarily need to be 100% lair communites – just communities of mixed lairs/plots where the master plot is a lair. Eli is one example of where this could work.

Some of these guild communities are unowned, simply because there's some better ones out there that are owned instead, these good communities are...an excess of supply, the demand for "good guild communities" is limited by the amount of guilds with plot subs within them and the 3 above things. That is to say, if there were more guilds looking for guild communities to begin with, those communities which i've highlighted as being relatively good would be the first few guild communities taken.

Size is a pretty common theme here...because size is a common problem – most owned communities contain plots of 80x80 or 80x50 or larger because..tiny plots below/around 60x60 range can't fit much on 'em – and even if you overlap all of the buildings, plot just end up ugly + inaccessable due to overlapping walls.

[Mithent]

I'm certainly in favour of larger plots. Empty plots are unappealing, but so are crowded ones. I've seen too many with buildings just packed together as close as possible to make the most out of the space, and this doesn't provide much opportunity for creativity or aesthetics without forgoing some machines etc.

The new, dragon-based guild that I'm part of was searching for a guild community but ended up not being able to find one that was suitable - instead, the guild master purchased a lair in the settlement Ga'lin. This works, although the area could do with an outgoing portal - neither Ga'lin nor Linakis have one, and the nearest is some distance away in Guild: Ker'Tis. But all the dragon guild areas are owned (albeit badly under-occupied), while the other guild areas tend to have one or two lairs at most and a biped master plot. So we weren't really able to take over any of the empty guild areas that do exist.

[Guaran]

My thoughts in general would be to combine plots into larger plots where possible. If the terrain doesn't allow a larger fit, then just remove the community. It sounds like most of the portal issues are being mentioned and addressed already.

Definitely enlarge some lairs too. The skinny shafted ones are practically unusable, because not only do you need to fit your rooms, but all the connectors to rooms/shops/halls are on the sides.. so each room requires its actual dimensions plus at least 1 more section on one of the edges for spirals up/down. So the skinny lairs end up being overly restrictive.

I would recommend care when enlarging terrain. In a few places, terrain was enlarged to just fit a square plot shape, and they end up looking un-natural. Harro has some spots like this. Really loved Harro when there was the path from the landing pad to the east section with the outgoing teleporter... (before the first plot enlargement years ago). The path is gone, shaved away to make room for a lower plot (which is squarish) enlargement.. I think this could be partially fixed by using some rock outcroppings to put the pathway back, while still leaving the large plot below alone (Which is owned on chaos at least). I have an old copy of the game from 2004, I could go into offline mode, make a short video showing the old appearance there (really did look better originally).

That's been my only peev with the plot enlargement/resizings of the past.. re-orienting plots that were originally at an angle (from being north-south aligned), to all be north-south aligned, and the terrain adjustments that end up looking un-natural due to the square-ness.

Padraig is nice looking, just a bit smallish on plot sizes, so if you enlarge anything, don't deform the terrain please.

Can post more thoughts later once I am logged in and can fly around and look at more of the mentioned locations.

[Dyoniccus]

I made a similar suggestion recently - this is the reply I got:

There are plenty available throughout the world. There are no more to add more or consolidate existing plots/lairs. As stated in other threads, if there are lairs/plots that are not desirable, we would rather work to improve the area surrounding those than to remove them or add more.

[Azath]

I would recommend care when enlarging terrain. In a few places, terrain was enlarged to just fit a square plot shape, and they end up looking un-natural. Harro has some spots like this. Really loved Harro when there was the path from the landing pad to the east section with the outgoing teleporter... (before the first plot enlargement years ago). The path is gone, shaved away to make room for a lower plot (which is squarish) enlargement.. I think this could be partially fixed by using some rock outcroppings to put the pathway back, while still leaving the large plot below alone (Which is owned on chaos at least). I have an old copy of the game from 2004, I could go into offline mode, make a short video showing the old appearance there (really did look better originally).

That's been my only peev with the plot enlargement/resizings of the past.. re-orienting plots that were originally at an angle (from being north-south aligned), to all be north-south aligned, and the terrain adjustments that end up looking un-natural due to the square-ness.

Ohh, I actually hadn't considered this much before...feedback taken on board for settlements/part 2! But yes, I wholly agree!

[Pryzm]

So i`m sorry i didn`t read all of this but i need to add: Thanks for that work! I`ve been flying over all these communitys quite often in search for a plot for my guild. All of them are too small, have no resources near, plots are scattered too much or no pad and portal together. Plots in the size of Back Bay are quite ok. But i wouldn`t go any smaller. People are picky. That`s a sad fact.% I totally agree to the changes you suggest here . Would be some nice ones.