(!) "CAUTION: Updating your billing info"

Steelclaw · August 1st, 2006, 09:24 AM

Heads up:

As of right now, the billing info forms are NOT secure. They post to a http:// url, not a https:// url. This means that anything you enter in those forms are sent in plaintext across the internet. If you have not entered your info, I suggest you wait untill EI has a secure form and site set up. If you already have, keep an eye on your statements for any unusual activity. (you should be doing this anyway)

And yes, I did send email to EI about this.

What is https? How is it different from http?

http or hypertext-transport-protocol is the standard by which your web browser communicates with a web server. The contents of the communication is in plaintext, meaning that if you sent or received "This is a message", a 3rd party can intercept that communication and find that it contains "This is a message".

Traffic sent over a https connection is encrypted on the other hand, meaning that a 3rd party intercepting the traffic will not be able to figure out what it says (within a reasonable amount of time -- on the order of decades or longer). If you sent or received "This is a message" over an https connection and someone intercepted it, they'd get a bunch of garbage, and it would take them a VERY long time to figure out what was sent.

https also has identity verification. Part of the encryption setup involves a site certificate. This is a bit of code that will help you determine if the site you are visiting is the one you want to be giving your information to. Double click the "padlock" icon near the bottom of your browser window and look at the site identity. This should tell you the company that owns the url you're visiting (such as "EI Interactive"), as well as some body of authority (such as Thawte or Verisign) that has verified the identity of that company.

ALWAYS make sure you are using a form hosted on a https url which posts to a https url (your browser should alert you if you are using a https form which posts to a http url) whenever you are entering personal or financial data.

Seranthor · August 1st, 2006, 10:15 AM

Good information to have, I've not given this new billing system my information yet, and with this knowledge I dont plan to until there is some kind of security for our information.

Landowyn · August 1st, 2006, 02:10 PM

Strike One?

August 1st, 2006, 02:24 PM

Will the new system now allow me to use my UK version of Horizons and play with people in the US .. I did not actually play Horizons due to this factor..has this changed due to the new billing situation?

K

Dhalin · August 1st, 2006, 02:27 PM

How long are our accounts good for? Until the end of August, I hope? Looks like I can still log in right now, I hope this is enough time for them to grab a verisign or something and secure the site and fix the multiple billing issues on some of the accounts.

That, and I hope that all of those who bought several months in advance will either get refunded or credited all that extra money they sent to Tulga...

--Dhalin

Dhalin · August 1st, 2006, 02:28 PM

As far as I know, their chosen way of payment, Paypal is indeed international, I don't see why you can't open an account on NA shards now.

[Edit: You should wait until they secure the website first, right now, their billing page is NOT secure as of 10:35 AM EST August 01.]

--Dhalin

Khoal · August 1st, 2006, 02:32 PM

Whoa!

Good catch, SC!

Kerech · August 1st, 2006, 02:37 PM

Hmmm... Kaylon, eh? That name sounds familiar.

(Kerech aka OldRod)

If that name means anything to you, then "Hi!" . If not, just ignore me

I'm currently playing on Chaos once in a while, just having re-started my subscription last week. If you make it to a NA server, look me up. My char names are "Kerech" and "Daelle"

Dravatar · 02:56 PM

The account info page is not secure, but you do not enter credit card information there, either. Paypal is secure.

I don't like the idea of entering my home email in plain text, so yes, an https URL is preferable, but Paypal payments are not being sent in plain text. The actual credit card site is indeed, not a secure site. You should not use this until it becomes such.

I've heard a report that only US Paypal accounts are being accepted at this time. I'm not sure if this is the case or why, but you'll have to contact EI about this.

Mearis · August 1st, 2006, 02:59 PM

I understand EI may be busy, but with these billing issues. I would hope they are on top of it, and would pass that information to their customers. Tulga had a much better forum presence then that I have seen of EI. Some official announcement or post about their working to resolve the billing issues (and make the site secure) would certainly go a long way for customer relations for a company new to the community.

August 1st, 2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerech

Hmmm... Kaylon, eh? That name sounds familiar.

(Kerech aka OldRod)

If that name means anything to you, then "Hi!" . If not, just ignore me

I'm currently playing on Chaos once in a while, just having re-started my subscription last week. If you make it to a NA server, look me up. My char names are "Kerech" and "Daelle"

Hiya OldRod

... yes Im that Kaylon... also the same Kaylon from the original IGN Horizons boards... senior Environmental Artist for Artifact on Horizons when we first went into production...before Dave B... I got a copy of Horizons but have never actually played the finished version due to the original billing situation...if indeed I can now use my UK copy on NA servers I shall at last be able to play a game that I worked on for about a year

... gees..that was 6 years ago..wow..

LaughingOtter · August 1st, 2006, 03:38 PM

I'm rather annoyed that I cannot access ANY account information without updating my payment information. I see no reason why I should have to do so, as I have five annual accounts paid through January. While I'm glad to see that EI is accepting PayPal, it just seems odd to make it the preferred billing solution. Further, I really have to wonder why a direct credit card payment would have a 2-3 day delay before being credited. For goodness sakes, are they processing credit card transactions MANUALLY or something??

If people with existing, paid accounts are getting notices that they have insufficient active subscriptions, and people that update their billing information seem to be getting billed AGAIN, EI needs to get on top of this immediatly and let us know what they are doing about it.

Justa Mirage · August 1st, 2006, 03:44 PM

As I read thread after thread on both here and VN I get a question that pops up in my head:

Just how "organized" was this company when they purchased Horizons?

Did they know what they were getting into? If they did, why the silence?

EI, you have a player base that is concerned over many issues. Boiled down it can be viewed in maybe this hand full of issues:

Billing: unsecured sites being used to gather personal information, will I get billed 3 times, how about my military sign up account, etc.

Updates: Will we see what was promised us? Confectioners revamp, "the settlements" expansion, more content, quests, (dungeons??)

Bug Fixes: There are plenty out there to fix, what is being done to fix them?

Major overhaul of the client software: will there be one, and what does it entail?

What are you going to do about Unity / GN issues?

Even an every day "hello, this is what we are doing or near completing, or something" like the Devs did. Every day the devs would put posts to reassure the people here that their posts WERE being looked over.

A little communication goes a long way, a lack of communication instills fear and uncertainty in people's desire to continue playing.

Let's hear from you.

LexDivinia · August 1st, 2006, 04:29 PM

I am losing faith quickly.
Some of us live paycheck to paycheck and can not afford to have multiple payments taken out of an account due to a "billing error." I get charged 39.00 for every overdraft. I will not be updating the info on any of my accounts until this is a secure situation.

Goriax · August 1st, 2006, 05:07 PM

I'm glad my subscriptions have several months to go.

I think I'm going to let this settle for awhile before risking my credit card information.

I figured that handling billing information would be something EI would be very familiar with, although anyone will probably stumble a few times when taking on something this big.

I wish them well because I wish Horizons well, but things like this certainly make me nervous.

Vlisson · August 1st, 2006, 05:16 PM

*shakes EI*

speak with us

August 1st, 2006, 05:19 PM

I will *NOT* use Paypal. I simply refuse. Too many people have had identity theft issues with Paypal. So right now I can either lose my accounts, use paypal, or use an unsecured website... I choose the losing my accounts option.

Alladania · August 1st, 2006, 08:54 PM

None that I've seen anywhere. No response yet to my email inquiry either.

LaughingOtter · August 1st, 2006, 08:57 PM

"Dude! We want to discuss these billing issues!!"

C`gan · August 1st, 2006, 09:05 PM

On my billing page I get https://horizons.... But, when I did the update I got:
Error Received:
MRC:IK
RESPONSE:SERVICE

What's this?

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#1 August 1st, 2006, 09:24 AM
Steelclaw Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shard of Chaos Posts: 1,184	(!) "CAUTION: Updating your billing info" Heads up: As of right now, the billing info forms are NOT secure. They post to a http:// url, not a https:// url. This means that anything you enter in those forms are sent in plaintext across the internet. If you have not entered your info, I suggest you wait untill EI has a secure form and site set up. If you already have, keep an eye on your statements for any unusual activity. (you should be doing this anyway) And yes, I did send email to EI about this. What is https? How is it different from http? http or hypertext-transport-protocol is the standard by which your web browser communicates with a web server. The contents of the communication is in plaintext, meaning that if you sent or received "This is a message", a 3rd party can intercept that communication and find that it contains "This is a message". Traffic sent over a https connection is encrypted on the other hand, meaning that a 3rd party intercepting the traffic will not be able to figure out what it says (within a reasonable amount of time -- on the order of decades or longer). If you sent or received "This is a message" over an https connection and someone intercepted it, they'd get a bunch of garbage, and it would take them a VERY long time to figure out what was sent. https also has identity verification. Part of the encryption setup involves a site certificate. This is a bit of code that will help you determine if the site you are visiting is the one you want to be giving your information to. Double click the "padlock" icon near the bottom of your browser window and look at the site identity. This should tell you the company that owns the url you're visiting (such as "EI Interactive"), as well as some body of authority (such as Thawte or Verisign) that has verified the identity of that company. ALWAYS make sure you are using a form hosted on a https url which posts to a https url (your browser should alert you if you are using a https form which posts to a http url) whenever you are entering personal or financial data.

#2 August 1st, 2006, 10:15 AM
Seranthor Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chaos Ranger, 2100 crafting levels Posts: 1,701	Good information to have, I've not given this new billing system my information yet, and with this knowledge I dont plan to until there is some kind of security for our information. __________________ 25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk. ADV: Centenarian Nature Walker; Rating: 162 Craft: 1900 levels; Craft Rating: 234 DRGN: Lunus, Adult, 100 DRAG, 100 DCRA, 100 DLSH, Expert Lairshaper (Chaos-04) No, try not! Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda If the enemy presents an opportunity, take advantage of it - Sun Tzu Having problems with my right to speak? Report me or click here Ignore Seranthor

#3 August 1st, 2006, 02:10 PM
Landowyn Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 352	Strike One? __________________ Landowyn of Order The Steelworks Specializing in a little bit of everything

#4 August 1st, 2006, 02:24 PM
kaylon Guest Posts: n/a	Billing world wide Will the new system now allow me to use my UK version of Horizons and play with people in the US .. I did not actually play Horizons due to this factor..has this changed due to the new billing situation? K

#5 August 1st, 2006, 02:27 PM
Dhalin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,216	How long are our accounts good for? Until the end of August, I hope? Looks like I can still log in right now, I hope this is enough time for them to grab a verisign or something and secure the site and fix the multiple billing issues on some of the accounts. That, and I hope that all of those who bought several months in advance will either get refunded or credited all that extra money they sent to Tulga... --Dhalin

#6 August 1st, 2006, 02:28 PM
Dhalin Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,216	As far as I know, their chosen way of payment, Paypal is indeed international, I don't see why you can't open an account on NA shards now. [Edit: You should wait until they secure the website first, right now, their billing page is NOT secure as of 10:35 AM EST August 01.] --Dhalin

#7 August 1st, 2006, 02:32 PM
Khoal Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 414	Whoa! Good catch, SC!

#8 August 1st, 2006, 02:37 PM
Kerech Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 814	Hmmm... Kaylon, eh? That name sounds familiar. (Kerech aka OldRod) If that name means anything to you, then "Hi!" . If not, just ignore me I'm currently playing on Chaos once in a while, just having re-started my subscription last week. If you make it to a NA server, look me up. My char names are "Kerech" and "Daelle"

#9 August 1st, 2006, 02:51 PM
Dravatar Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 388	The account info page is not secure, but you do not enter credit card information there, either. Paypal is secure. I don't like the idea of entering my home email in plain text, so yes, an https URL is preferable, but Paypal payments are not being sent in plain text. The actual credit card site is indeed, not a secure site. You should not use this until it becomes such. I've heard a report that only US Paypal accounts are being accepted at this time. I'm not sure if this is the case or why, but you'll have to contact EI about this. Last edited by Dravatar; August 1st, 2006 at 02:56 PM..

#10 August 1st, 2006, 02:59 PM
Mearis Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mia's Edge - Chaos Posts: 164	Where is EI? I understand EI may be busy, but with these billing issues. I would hope they are on top of it, and would pass that information to their customers. Tulga had a much better forum presence then that I have seen of EI. Some official announcement or post about their working to resolve the billing issues (and make the site secure) would certainly go a long way for customer relations for a company new to the community. __________________ Segorian_Bounty - Elder Adult Dragon - Chaos Mearis - Saris - All around biped crafter - Chaos ....Toooo many alts to list them all

#12 August 1st, 2006, 03:38 PM
LaughingOtter Developer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 3,198	I'm rather annoyed that I cannot access ANY account information without updating my payment information. I see no reason why I should have to do so, as I have five annual accounts paid through January. While I'm glad to see that EI is accepting PayPal, it just seems odd to make it the preferred billing solution. Further, I really have to wonder why a direct credit card payment would have a 2-3 day delay before being credited. For goodness sakes, are they processing credit card transactions MANUALLY or something?? If people with existing, paid accounts are getting notices that they have insufficient active subscriptions, and people that update their billing information seem to be getting billed AGAIN, EI needs to get on top of this immediatly and let us know what they are doing about it. __________________ Klaus Wulfenbach Mithril Council, Chaos "Death is fleeting. Pride is forever." "Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."-- Abraham Lincoln

#13 August 1st, 2006, 03:44 PM
Justa Mirage Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,988	And just where are the new owners? As I read thread after thread on both here and VN I get a question that pops up in my head: Just how "organized" was this company when they purchased Horizons? Did they know what they were getting into? If they did, why the silence? EI, you have a player base that is concerned over many issues. Boiled down it can be viewed in maybe this hand full of issues: Billing: unsecured sites being used to gather personal information, will I get billed 3 times, how about my military sign up account, etc. Updates: Will we see what was promised us? Confectioners revamp, "the settlements" expansion, more content, quests, (dungeons??) Bug Fixes: There are plenty out there to fix, what is being done to fix them? Major overhaul of the client software: will there be one, and what does it entail? What are you going to do about Unity / GN issues? Even an every day "hello, this is what we are doing or near completing, or something" like the Devs did. Every day the devs would put posts to reassure the people here that their posts WERE being looked over. A little communication goes a long way, a lack of communication instills fear and uncertainty in people's desire to continue playing. Let's hear from you. __________________ Justa Mirage: Ranger 100 / Healer 92 / Carpentry 100 / Confectioner 100 / Fletching 92 / Weaver 62 / Gatherer 34 Flatspin: Ancient Lunus Dragon 100 / Craft 100 / Lairshaping 100

#14 August 1st, 2006, 04:29 PM
LexDivinia Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 170	I am losing faith quickly. Some of us live paycheck to paycheck and can not afford to have multiple payments taken out of an account due to a "billing error." I get charged 39.00 for every overdraft. I will not be updating the info on any of my accounts until this is a secure situation. __________________ Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

#15 August 1st, 2006, 05:07 PM
Goriax Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 927	I'm glad my subscriptions have several months to go. I think I'm going to let this settle for awhile before risking my credit card information. I figured that handling billing information would be something EI would be very familiar with, although anyone will probably stumble a few times when taking on something this big. I wish them well because I wish Horizons well, but things like this certainly make me nervous.

#16 August 1st, 2006, 05:16 PM
Vlisson Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Germany / Bavaria Posts: 2,548	shakes EI speak with us __________________

#17 August 1st, 2006, 05:19 PM
Tigris Guest Posts: n/a	I will NOT use Paypal. I simply refuse. Too many people have had identity theft issues with Paypal. So right now I can either lose my accounts, use paypal, or use an unsecured website... I choose the losing my accounts option.

#18 August 1st, 2006, 08:54 PM
Alladania Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 376	None that I've seen anywhere. No response yet to my email inquiry either. __________________

#19 August 1st, 2006, 08:57 PM
LaughingOtter Developer Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 3,198	"Dude! We want to discuss these billing issues!!" __________________ Klaus Wulfenbach Mithril Council, Chaos "Death is fleeting. Pride is forever." "Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."-- Abraham Lincoln

#20 August 1st, 2006, 09:05 PM
C`gan Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Acul, Trandalar and Tagath's in Mala, Genevia Island Posts: 2,970	On my billing page I get https://horizons.... But, when I did the update I got: Error Received: MRC:IK RESPONSE:SERVICE What's this? __________________

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