New Monk Issue List

The list

I would like to see the issues broken up into

General - Defense

General - Offense

General - Group

General - Misc


All the general issues are related to all monks.

Then a section for each of the 5 monk types.

Once the list is complete I will create a support ticket with the list and a link to the topic, as well as PM the thread to a dev or two


I will begin using the Identified issues from the thread I started some time ago.

General - Defense

• Evasion/Dodge - No evasion nor dodge techs
• Less Hp/level than all other melee classes. We only get 18hp/level which is low for someone who is expected to stand toe to toe with the opponent.
• Damage avoidance - Evasion is still only reliable vs mobs 20 levels below the player
• No monk/disciple specifc defensive self buff, Other than 10min flow like water.
• Evasion effect seems random
• Flow like water applies +40 to dodge however with increased mob weapon skills it is unlikely a monk will win the evasion vs mob weapon skill contest so the +40 dodge mostly does not help.
• Iron Body does not override True Grit V when it should because it provides considerably more armour.

General - Offense

• Low damage output, even when accounting for speed we come out under EVERYONE/THING
• No class offensive self buff's
• Unarmed mastery delay seems to take 20+ levels to lower delay
• Attacks that work with multipliers don't work well for monks eg critical strike which is tier*normal damage our normal damage is so low that our critical strike damage is laughable. Same applies to multistrike.
• Due to our rapid attacks at less damage we are more affected by our foes armour. We hit more and each hit incurs the armour based damage reduction, This is part of why our damage is so significantly less than other melees.
• Flurry I/II/III affects as the most, we already have way lower damage than other melee's It gets reduced more by flurry then we also have the damage reduction caused by armour.
• Low strength when strength seems to be a major factor in damage calculations 6/level is low for a melee school
• Handwraps 2 handed weapon without the benefits all other two handed weapons have.

General - Group


General - Misc

• Having specific armor like robes and headbands
• The on character effect (glowies) for disciples often disappears after porting

Flame Disciple

• Aura of Flame I - The ability does very little damage, Allows others in the party with you at the time its activated to buff other people they group with
• Lacks a visual component when used.
• Fists of flame is doing very little to no damage to high armour mobs thus negating the benefit of being a flame disciple

Ice Disciple

• Ice Armour - 50 Armour is not a huge diference, The tier 2 version is broken (can this be confirmed?)
• Ice line - The ice line is rather weak. 2 roots (one reduces fire damage). No repeating bolt. Long delay on spells that are worth using.
• Group ice armour has no icon and shows in the effects area as a blue box.

Monk

• For the most part Monks offer little to a group. Monks can't tank effectivley and are not High damage dealers.

Spirit Disciple

• Pillage spirit (10min recycle, transfers 100% of damage to attackers health) - Often misses and considering our damage for one hit 60-80 health doesn't help, Timer should be reduced or effectiveness increased
• Other than Spirit punch no frequent use attacks that are class specifc (common to most classes).
• Many abilities we gain at a much later level than other spirit users. EG Area Siphon I at level 76, this is gained at 14 by a Pure spiritist and I think 27 for a reaver.
• Vampire fist visual effect needs to be the same black and purple that spirit bolt uses, then it would look like a "spirit" effect.
• The Siphons (ability) we get are low level and late in the game by the time we get them they are of little use.
• Instant Transfer III gained at 90 Heals the target for 200...

Storm Disciple

• Stunning blow - Is less effective than lightning claws, no point having abilities that are less effective than normal attack.
• Clap of Thunder - AE 3 second stun 10 minute timer, not as effective as a AE root
• Static Aura grants all the group members in the near by area the ability to grant static aura.
• Lightning claws sound seems to repeat endlessly and is very annoying

FIXED

• No icons for our chains
• Weapon socket. We have none.
• No kick animation, even if it uses unarmed just a kick animation would be nice Our chains have some kicks now
• No use of the left arm.
• No trainer tasks post level 30 for SPRD (im told)
• Ki Strike - This currently buffs enemies with the same effect as Gift of Alc
• Spirit punch (instant hit deals etheral damage) - This ability does less damage than a normal attack even against targets with out etheral armour.
• Freezing Touch I has 50% chance to slow down a mob
  Freezing Touch II has 20% chance to slow down a mob.
  Freezing touch III has 30% chance to slow down a mob.
  So clearly version I needs to be fixed.
• Defy Flame III is the same as Defy Flame II
• UAM 21 (100) does the same damage as 20 and less than a level 95 (Essence leather) handwrap
• Defy Spirit Values are incorrect
• Iron Body (+100 Armour for 1 min) - Is not effective considering its a level 70 ability.
• Ice armour - Conflicts with Iron Body
• Iron Body Overwrites Ice armour II which provides same protection but more etheral
• Spirit Punch is on a shared timer with cleric ability smash
• Iron Body over writes earthen crust which is more effective
• Class quests after the merge are not able to be completed.
• Spirit form seems to conflict with earthen crust V. Wasting spirit form until its recycled
• Firestorm is equivilant in damage to a t1 mage spell and is a level 90 ability.
• Burning fist appears to be broken
• Fire sheath is not on par with other damage shields
• Group ice armour Or Ice armour appears to be masterable
• Numbing cold not associated with Ice skill
• Numbing cold is meant to be an area slow down ability but the slow down effect is barely noticable and it only affects one target.
• Pillage Spirit does not work at all says 'You must fight with spirit' when you try to use it
• When one gains stunning blow III it only stays until relog. After that you are reverting to II until you gain IV
• Static Aura will no longer "spam" the user if someone has energise.
• The delay cap on attacks (1/sec) prevents us reaching our true speed of attack. While our weapon weilding companions get faster and faster we hit a brick wall and do not get faster.
• Ice Tomb and its Companion ability Shatter do not work. Largely because Ice Tomb is broken

I'll try and get this updated and keep it up to date at present it is better than nothing.

PM or post in this thread updates.

I believe Ice has a repeating bolt now, if I'm not mistaken.

I hope that one of the items on the dev agenda is adventure school reviews (similar to what WoW did about a year ago) for each and every school, making adjustments where needed and fixing things that are broken. Monks and the Disciples would definitely be a great start, as they seem like a very cool class, but somewhat gimped in their damage output. Monks should be among the highest in biped melee DPS.

Some suggested fixes:

Dual Wield: Monks/Disciples inherently have a chance to perform an additional attack every round with the left arm. This should start at Level 1 and scale to where it happens almost 100% of the time by Level 100.

Change Melee Flurry to a unique ability for Monks/Disciples that does the same thing, but without reducing base damage. This makes sense from a lore perspective, as martial artists can unleash a devastating flurry of attacks.

Provide some of the class-defining abilities (heal self, Ice Tomb/Shatter etc.) at a lower level.

Provide an ability to stun with a melee attack. (Edit: Nevermind, Storm Disciples can do this)

I'm sure there's lots that people can come up with, and also many other schools need fixing (KNOCs, ELARs, etc.). I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for school reviews!

Well, I helped clutter the old list with posts, may as well start on this one too. 8P

Flame Disc: Aura of Flame I is working properly now.

Ice Disc: Ice Armor works correctly.

I've never had problems with ice armor, other than that it doesn't stack with other armor buffs, and lacked a proper icon. As for ice spells... never even tried using em. But yes, ice bolt was added over a year ago, which mainly helps conjurers.

Pretty sure (vanilla) monk has a broken attack skill, a stun that never stuns or some such, but would have to check/test to see which skill and to make sure it's still busted.

Grem

Aura of Fire I is working correctly. In fact, the damage output on it, on average, is a little higher than Fire Sheath. Aura of Fire I is doing flame damage, as per its description.

Aura of Fire still spams the console chat with "Aura of Fire failed cause PLAYER has fire sheath", but with the overall damage output being higher than fire sheath, I only use fire sheath when soloing.

Aura of Fire still does lack a visual component when used. This is still true.

-Menkure

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Originally Posted by Gremblthrg

Pretty sure (vanilla) monk has a broken attack skill, a stun that never stuns or some such, but would have to check/test to see which skill and to make sure it's still busted.

Grem

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Okay, switched over to pure monk, tested a little - Nerve Strike from what I can tell never stuns (supposed to stun for 3 seconds, pretty weak to start with for having 3 min cool), and is a very weak debuff. The only way I can tell the debuff is landing is by using Nerve Strike right after cripple II, and getting feedback that 'Nerve Strike failed because [the mob] has Cripple II'.

By itself, the -50 strength and dex from Nerve Strike isn't even noticeable.

So in short, Nerve Strike is a bust.

Defence

Evation/Doge we need tects still.

HP and doge not working on high level mobs will be made up for with techs and skill points pointed in evation. To note evation works even with mobs you at not doing damg too were parry and shield block only work on the mob your doing damg to so this is the better skill by far. But there realy do's need to be evation and magic evation techs. As Mages suffer this in the form of there magic evation too.

Low str is made up for with other classes no class gives what it realy needs
for all states. This is ok.


All discipel spells and related skill ablitys will always at a disadvange over other primary classes do to lower skill/focus/power levels of main classes.
They will never do there full damg or hit nearly as often as needed till you level there main classes.

And ice skill now as Ice bolt.

Monks are not as missed up as they used to be just use hand wraps when you hit that 1sec wall you losses your unarmed mastery faster att speed when using them and gain damg to replace this. As for not doing as much damg as other two handed weapons your asking to op us. Heavy hiting two handers will never gain 1sec att speeds. When they do then it's time to ask for the damg inc.

if evasion will ever work like intended then we need an evasion penalty for wearing heavy armor

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Originally Posted by Vlisson

if evasion will ever work like intended then we need an evasion penalty for wearing heavy armor

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Thats omost like saying we need a penalty on spells for using weapons or the other way around. Wariors get omost as much evasion as Monks so I dont think they would realy like that ideal.

oh yes, sorry that i forgot this, i remembered this after i wrote my answer

max evasion unarmed
penalty for using big weapons
more penalty for using complex spells (or add spell failure with concentration ^^)
much more penalty for heavy armor

btw how many points do a warrior get Evasion per lvl? 8?

Thats what I'm saying if I wanted that kind of game I would D&D it up:)

And warroirs get 9 points of evation a level omost as much as Monks. Some Disple schools only get 9 too.

wow that a warrior gets 9 points evasion confuses me

sounds like evasion should never work like i thought ^^

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Originally Posted by Vlisson

wow that a warrior gets 9 points evasion confuses me

sounds like evasion should never work like i thought ^^

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Evasion is used is some formal that pits it's self to your aggressor's att skill. i.e. two hand crush skill vs Evasion skill. Kind of like that but with a formal that takes into account other things. And no I dont know the formal but the higher your evation skill is over your att's skill the better and the lower your skill is under there att skill the worse.

This is why monks have few problems leveling up to 100 but cant hange with the T6 Mobs No evation techs there for there Evation will not work as it did when leveling. Ending in taking to much damg to fast.

Or rather I should not say no evation techs but there Broken into slash/crush wards. In the mean time Warroirs can use Def V tects Pluse Rest V tects.

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# Vampire fist visual effect needs to be the same black and purple that spirit bolt uses, then it would look like a "spirit" effect.

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Vampiric touch has the same colour as all other spirit abilities. Spirit abilities and spirit spells have two different colours, and vampiric touch is currently the right colour.

I like the headband suggestion!

monk, i wish i'd done it, but too late at this point.

dont much feel like being a lvl 20 with a rating of 170.

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Originally Posted by alastar devil

dont much feel like being a lvl 20 with a rating of 170.

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Sounds like it's time to start a new Monk alt then :)

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Originally Posted by evilkarl

Handwraps 2 handed weapon without the benefits all other two handed weapons have.

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Not really sure what the "benefits" are that are referred to here, unless you mean the nice damage all the other 2 handed weapons do.

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Having specific armor like robes and headbands

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I'd much rather that the core parts of the school were fixed first.

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Pillage spirit (10min recycle, transfers 100% of damage to attackers health) - Often misses and considering our damage for one hit 60-80 health doesn't help, Timer should be reduced or effectiveness increased

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This was updated. It auto-hits now and does maximum damage. But it's still ridiculous. Even with 1600 strength, it barely does more than 300 damage. I *already* have vampiric touch III, which mimics the effects of pillage spirit very well. The other life-stealing abilities are on a 5 minute timer, so why isn't this one? Also, even with 1600 strength, it only heals for about 300, and that's WITH unbridled energy + nature's fury + power style III. It's pointless. If I don't need the health, I'd much rather use a chain attack, and if I DO need the health, I'm going to use a healing spell. Critical strike does WAY more damage, it autohits, and for a single-class disciple with 1k base strength from fitter, it does about 600 damage. That's 1200 damage over 10 mins, with the average self-healing also being about 300. (50% leeched 50% of the time).

The ONLY time I bother with pillage spirit is when fighting against annoying things with high evasion, and that's because of the autohit ability. If the ability recycled every 2 minutes, then it might be "worth it" for what it does, but at 10 minutes it's just a joke.

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Many abilities we gain at a much later level than other spirit users. EG Area Siphon I at level 76, this is gained at 14 by a Pure spiritist and I think 27 for a reaver.

The Siphons (ability) we get are low level and late in the game by the time we get them they are of little use.

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I would boost the siphon line for disciples. However, Area Siphon I has been useful to me at lvl 100 for a long, long time. If you use it in the correct situation it can literally be a life-saver.

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The delay cap on attacks (1/sec) prevents us reaching our true speed of attack. While our weapon weilding companions get faster and faster we hit a brick wall and do not get faster.

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This is and is not fixed. For raw attacks it is fixed, but there's a little hitch. If you use any attack abilities, the 1 second delay returned. Disciples have 10 chain attacks with a 1 minute recycle, which means at least 1 attack every 6 seconds if you want to use the damage increasing ability that disciples so sorely need. Then there's all the other special attacks such as critical strike, spirit punch, ki strike and what have you.

I personally like to alternate between a chain attack and then a non-chain attack. I almost exclusively use attack abilities from the time I start attacking until the time that the monster is dead. This means that I'm once again stuck behind the 1 second wall, and it forces me to either choose between attacking slightly faster and foregoing all abilities, or having my abilities and attacking slowly again.

I can understand the delay behind spell-like abilities such as siphon, but I think weapon-based abilities should also be able to go below the 1 second cap.