More Elite = More Complainy
Ever noticed this?
Even though it was not Istaria that inspired this rant, I'm putting it under "Istaria Style" because this actually does apply to Istaria too, from what I've seen during the last 2-3 weeks.
Ever noticed how, when the devs go to make a change, the first people to stand up and go "Noooo!!!" are the so-called "Elite" players of any MMORPG?
What inspired this rant, is another certain MMORPG is about to release a huge Expansion, and to prep the game for that Expansion, they recently released a patch that made several changes necessary for said expansion coming up.
The people who complained the hardest, were the most elite. They complained that they no longer had X ability, that they no longer could do X, Y, Z and get away with it, etc. The whole patch made things harder which is exactly what the so-called Elites were complaining about: The game being too easy.
Well, they made the game harder, now "Elites" are going "I quit, because I can't X, Y, Z". Or "I quit, because I'm not good enough to know how to re-learn a new mechanic for my character", or whatever other stupid reason they have for quitting.
Anyways, that got me thinking to Istaria.
The Devs here said that the Satyr Isles need changing, because it is nearly impossible to make heads nor tails out of the spawns on those isles, and because debugging such spawns is nearly impossible. Right away, the "Elite" players go "noooo!!!!".
Who did I NOT hear complaining?
Your everyday, more casual player. The player who logs in, enjoys the game, and logs out, not claiming to be anybody great.
Then, the Devs said they wanted to move things around, they wanted Forms and Techs to drop from the WA/Undead if I recall, and the comps to drop from creatures. Then, the Elite Players go "Nooo! now I have no reason to hunt those! The game is too easy now!"
Who was Not complaining?
The Casuals.
Just like the aforementioned MMORPG, even when they were making the game *harder*, the casuals complained far less than the "Elites".
Now, Istaria is a little different, it doesn't have a 10mil+ sub count, but still, the same general concept applies.
Now, I know someone will point out my complaints. Let me clarify that before they even have time to type it:
I was never complaining about the proposed changes to the Satyr Isles or the loot changes. I was only re-iterating the reasons why I think this change is a good thing, and adding a couple other issues loosely related (targeting).
My main point here, is this:
Give the devs a chance before you click the "Quit" button. Honestly. If the casuals can buckle down and endure changes, surely the "Elite" players can do the same, especially if they act and claim to be so much better. Players who have attitudes in Istaria are much rarer than the other aforementioned game, but I have seen the "We're better than you are" in subtle ways, even in Istaria. Don't pretend it doesn't exist, because it does.
I won't name any names here, and I am not talking about anyone in particular, but I have gotten that vibe while browsing the forums, *especially* during the last couple weeks.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Elite and elitist are pretty powerful and condescending terms to be labeling people with. I don't consider myself elite in game or out.
What I do think though when you've been here premerge and your in game time can be tracked in years or months not hours and the developers ask for insight you should be honest with what you see as a downside of any upcoming changes.
Food timers were reduced (still too long) from delta to live because of forum talk, tavern bonuses by size came about from discussion on here. Plenty of things have been altered by input, something VI is often congratulated for.
Whos quit already, I dont know of anyone personally and I know most of the upset group. This is what where we hunt , comps providing is what we do, I dont think after years of playing and paying that asking that the game in question remain a place with things you wanna do makes you elite or a complainer.
The overhaul is gonna happen Ive no doubt on that, people will then make a decision when it does whether they stay or go like anything, but this cant be compared to some ability nerf actually removing why most of us play.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Dhalin- its not that I disagree with what you`ve said
but (:p)
- lets discuss the word choice:
"Eliteplayers"- I know those from other games, and I dare to say, that Istaria does not have such players, cause the game is not designed for that. Lets stay with the word " Veteranplayer".
And then there is no reason that someone says "I`m better than you are".
Only thing one could say is "I know more about the game, I have achieved more than you" But who would say so- and if- nothing bad about it ,
cause its natural.
Anyway-I have never heard one or the other
So why do vets complain faster and louder if it comes to changes or what they feel are nerfs?
Because they know more about the game than the average/casual players.
Because they have much more to loose than the average/casual players.
They loose things they have worked for hours, months or even years.
They are proud of what they possess and proud of what they`ve achieved.
They do not want to loose it.
Nothing wrong with that. Its natural- again.
One point I agree with you 100%: Threatening to push the "quit button" is not the solution.
Making suggestions, pointing out where probs might arise (from certain changes), discussing and looking for compromises- and -most important-
give the compromise a try- this is what I expect from a vet player.
From the dev`s side I expect that they provide us with informations early enough- so that is time for discussion which will, on the other hand, provide the devs with important infos too.
And I expect that out- of- favor changes will be explained and why they are necessary for the progress of the game.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
That's because the casual players were all at the rally to restore sanity and/or fear.
I want a sandwich!
All kidding aside, the casual player is not going to visit the forums. They are going to do what they always have- log in one day at a time and just play the game.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
We should not get into this
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
*pokes snout in*
Going to reply to the OP with my personal opinion.
Elite player?
Dunno if I would label myself as that. Veteran player then yes.
Do I cry and stamp my feet and complain at every change?
Nope
Do I say if I am not happy about something?
Yes - but I normally give reasons why (and I try to look at things from an overall view)
Examples
1. Loot Revamp - I have no problem with the proposed loot revamp so I havent got involved except for doing some testing on blight.
2. Devs Desk - The wording of the devs desk disgusted me and I replied to as to why.
3. Portal Revamp - I saw many flaws in it and I said what I believed them to be.
4. Item attuning - Didn't understand the reasons as to why until I asked Amon directly why it was being done. Once it was explained then I understood the reasons for the change.
Summary
I don't complain for the sake of complaining, and I understand that change must happen. But I will give 'feedback' regarding changes and suggest alternatives. Am I going to quit the game? Based on current changes. Nope
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Just to note...
I don't want this thread to de-evolve into "Who is considered Elite and Who Is Not".
I wasn't even really aiming the word "Elite" at Istaria; the word "Elite" is used mostly for people in 'the other game' I mentioned.
As I said above, I'm thankful that Istaria has much less of that "I'm better than you" mentality that I've seen in other games.
But it is simply human nature to feel that way sometimes, I guess. There's no way you're going to get rid of it entirely. I'm glad Istaria has less of it than most.
I really do think, though, that people should just give the devs a chance. They're trying. The portal thing was a horrible idea, and it got shot down for good reason. The devs realized this and said "OK so this isn't a very good idea". The devs were wise enough to do that.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LOVWYRM
Dhalin- its not that I disagree with what you`ve said
but (:p)
- lets discuss the word choice:
"Eliteplayers"- I know those from other games, and I dare to say, that Istaria does not have such players, cause the game is not designed for that. Lets stay with the word " Veteranplayer".
And then there is no reason that someone says "I`m better than you are".
Only thing one could say is "I know more about the game, I have achieved more than you" But who would say so- and if- nothing bad about it ,
cause its natural.
Anyway-I have never heard one or the other
So why do vets complain faster and louder if it comes to changes or what they feel are nerfs?
Because they know more about the game than the average/casual players.
Because they have much more to loose than the average/casual players.
They loose things they have worked for hours, months or even years.
They are proud of what they possess and proud of what they`ve achieved.
They do not want to loose it.
Nothing wrong with that. Its natural- again.
One point I agree with you 100%: Threatening to push the "quit button" is not the solution.
Making suggestions, pointing out where probs might arise (from certain changes), discussing and looking for compromises- and -most important-
give the compromise a try- this is what I expect from a vet player.
From the dev`s side I expect that they provide us with informations early enough- so that is time for discussion which will, on the other hand, provide the devs with important infos too.
And I expect that out- of- favor changes will be explained and why they are necessary for the progress of the game.
LOVWYRM said it perfectly.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vortura
Do not feed the troll
Are you referring to me, may I ask?
It was never my intention to troll, my apologies if you took that the wrong way. I was merely relating my experiences from one game, to another that seems to be going through a similar (though a bit different) problem.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
I think Shinkuu made a couple good points as to why that may be, Dhalin. Players who may be considered 'Elite' have invested a lot of time and effort into becoming top notch, something that's seldom easy to do let alone maintain. Big changes often require these players to spend a good deal of time getting back to their previous level of skill. That's not an entirely enjoyable process.
I myself have experienced this quite a number of times in Eve Online. I played Eve for a little over 6 years starting at its launch and my primary PVP ship became a Blasterthron. Over those 6 years the way a Blasterthron was most effectively fit changed dramatically. Losing dual micro warp drives, losing the micro warp / after burner combo, the damage mod nerf, etc. It required a bit of time and in some cases a number of lost ships to come up with a new fit that was effective. Not the most enjoyable or cheap process. x3
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Yeah, you're trolling.
We've all had enough of Dragon vs Biped conflicts and now you're starting this Casual vs Elite / New vs Old rubbish.
So please, enough.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
That's understandable.
In the aforementioned 'other game', the changes made pretty big changes to class mechanics of several classes. The stakes weren't anywhere near as high (if you die, you get a minor repair bill, and you shouldn't even die if you test your routine out on weak mobs or training dummies), but still, people complained.
I've even had people tell me "My ____ doesn't work anymore! It sucks now! It is too hard to get the hang of!" ... yet me, the casual player, was able to figure out a working system within a few hours. And I'm not the only one; I see people doing it just fine everywhere.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vortura
Yeah, you're trolling.
We've all had enough of Dragon vs Biped conflicts and now you're starting this Casual vs Elite / New vs Old rubbish.
So please, enough.
Dhalin is in no way shape or form trolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dhalin
I've even had people tell me "My ____ doesn't work anymore! It sucks now! It is too hard to get the hang of!" ... yet me, the casual player, was able to figure out a working system within a few hours. And I'm not the only one; I see people doing it just fine everywhere.
Well, there's often a difference between figuring out a working system for casual play and figuring out a working system for hard core play. In WoW, for example, the demands on someone tanking a heroic vs the demands on someone tanking a 5 man would be rather different. Same goes with Eve Online and the demands on someone PVEing vs the demands on someone PVPing.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Dhalin needs to come visit us at the Forum That Cannot Be Named...=)
We've been talking about this in "that other game" and in Istaria for a few weeks now - and noone's told anyone to shutup troll!
And no, Dhalin's not a troll. This is a rant forum. There are no trolls in a rant forum! :P That's like a violation of the time space continuum...lol.
Me - a "casual and complaining" player lol
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vortura
Yeah, you're trolling.
We've all had enough of Dragon vs Biped conflicts and now you're starting this Casual vs Elite / New vs Old rubbish.
So please, enough.
Dhalin is not a troll, he is a dragon... I think.
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
What Chasing and Lov Said - I 2nd and 3rd. :)
If anyone appears to be whining constantly.....
As for Elder Vs Elites? Huh, IMO that is Easy stuff:
ELDERS stayed with Istaria throughout its troubled life.
ELITES - Left when they couldn't get their way.
It is only through active participation and discussion that we
will get a suitable compromise for changes in Istaria. (If only
certain political factions could realize this, our Country wouldn't
be in this pickel. -- Diff topic, still a rant /Rant)
I see you have been invited to the other board to take up the torch
there... Please take the discussion to its proper home.
Sincerely,
Andaras
Re: More Elite = More Complainy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frith-Rae
Dhalin needs to come visit us at the Forum That Cannot Be Named...=)
We've been talking about this in "that other game" and in Istaria for a few weeks now - and noone's told anyone to shutup troll!
And no, Dhalin's not a troll. This is a rant forum. There are no trolls in a rant forum! :P That's like a violation of the time space continuum...lol.
Me - a "casual and complaining" player lol
PM me a URL.