I like Justa's idea of just listing when and where we do need each other. As I'm not a biped, aside from the dragon cake resources, where else does a biped need Dragon assistance? I've rarely seen the like.
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I like Justa's idea of just listing when and where we do need each other. As I'm not a biped, aside from the dragon cake resources, where else does a biped need Dragon assistance? I've rarely seen the like.
And THAT Is the problem, we have to beg bipeds to get our khutit form quest done (that is required for ARoP). And we need again to beg bipeds for the ink quest in ARoP. Sorry but that cannot be right. That really needs to be changed.
I can live without bipeds buffs, food and potion, i dont need them to come along, but if you dont ask a biped for the importanst questline that a dragon can do, you are stuck in being adult and khutitless forever.
That has nothing to do with player interaction or otherwise, its just plain silly that a dragon cant even alone finish their epic questline without the aid of bipeds.
Does a biped require dragon made items for Burning Archer? No. For Dark Cyclone? No. For Shining Blades? Again no.
It could be so easy, make it that you can bring either a rune stylus OR a dragon claw, for the ink stuff bring either the water and the other stuff OR gems and a ice golem fragment. So dragons can DECIDE if they want biped help or not.
Something is really wrong here regarding the epic questlines of the dragons.
Mel, whats really going to annoy you is with balit's quest you've allready got all your gonna get and that was a Bi-ped ring :rolleyes:
It's an ancient established golden rule in multiplayer gaming that if one "class" gets ANY invisible improvement, this means death and famine upon the universe, the other "classes" are bound to die, the developers fondly hate them in game and IRL, the world is suddenly unfair.Quote:
1) Why this inexplicable flaming of anyone who suggests, god forbid, that dragons are underpowered/could use a few more schools/abilities/spells etc?
Urgent drastic counter meausures must be taken, servers crashed, developers offices assaulted in real life (in WoW they actually arrive at wanting that...).
Horizons is not different.
Despite it being a completely small and "insignificant" game in the industry, with no real competition, no PvP, no tournaments, nothing, you will still see the guy who achieved an iron mallet be hated and burnt alive by the "have nots" only owning a bronze mallet.
I don't see it as "a problem". I am in a fantastic guild with exceptionally helpful guys, usually playing with both a dragon and a biped.Quote:
And THAT Is the problem, we have to beg bipeds to get our khutit form quest done (that is required for ARoP). And we need again to beg bipeds for the ink quest in ARoP. Sorry but that cannot be right. That really needs to be changed.
I don't see being unable to create food as a problem. "Wild" dragons would simply have to deal with their race not having developed the "technology" for it. It'd be a disadvantage naturally coming with the race.
I see as "illogical and wrong" feature that in a credible "universe", a wild species requires an alien and often competing species to exist though.
It's not "a problem" if horses needed humans to breed, eat or walk. It'd be an illogical "error" in nature though, and horses would be extinct the second there's no human around.
Dragons are same as horses. How can exist an original, "wild" race unable to survive / grow if not being feeded by another?
Apparently dragons are not even original of Istaria / this plane of existance. How can they exist then, since there's no "bipeds" to allow them to grow and reproduce?
This has boggled me since Horizons beginnings. In nature you can find cases of "new practices" being found that are a sharp shortcut and thus races adapt to them, but there's always "the old way", harder but doable.
This is hardly wanting "gimme gimme", it's be just about making sense. Suspension of disbeliev is impossible when it crashes against common logic and it impacts on the game perceived quality.
Vah, please when you quote me dont put the quote out of the context ;)
I dont said that food is a problem, my post was directed at the ARoP/Khutit quest problem.
You missed totally the point of my post. Some dragons dont want to ask a biped or to interact with them when it comes to their epic questline that they want to do on their own.
Its no big deal if dragons have to ask a biped for stuff for a other "unimportant" quest like balit's. You dont need it to asced or such. But they devs should conider that dragons can have a choice if they want it to do without biped help. Like the solution if offered in my previous post.
I agree with Valornynx and Terao. And Vahrokh!!
And I do not mind the dependency- it often enough is the first step to a life long friendship^^
And I really dislike that exaggerated separatism (don`t tell me it`s lore- hey- I´m Lunus, but I´m able to learn-we are not alone here in Istaria)
And- consider this: It is not dishonorable to ask for help- it`s dishonorable to deny help without good reasons.
All that comparing and whining- does not fit to the philosophy of dragons.
(and devs: hands away from gold shield^^:cool:)
Exactly. I don't mind asking for biped help to kill a mob needed for a quest or even my ROP, but asking for the rune stylus feels like begging.Quote:
You missed totally the point of my post. Some dragons dont want to ask a biped or to interact with them when it comes to their epic questline that they want to do on their own.
(Not that it would happen often, but) If the biped says no, that's it. You're done with your ROP and you've failed. Now go ask the next one and the next.... Does no one else feel this in the back of thier head? The lunuses at any rate. Luckily, I have a loving helpful guild.
During the adult ROP, having an adult dragon get the obsidian/scales what not is an honor for both. It is obviously not an honor for the biped to be asked for a stylus. I've seen it over and over in chats and somewhere on this board I think, biped taunting dragons with the threat of not giving a rune stylus or otherwise.
If you want something that fits Lunus lore ;)
The dragon guild leaders of their clan set out. They searched long and hard to find their target; a Naka with the talents for making rune styluses. They found one practicing his craft near a human forge.
"We can offer you gold, trophies, and comps if you would but make us some steel and mithril rune styluses... would you help?" one dragon said with a toothy grin, the smell of brimstone flowing through the nostrils and mouth as he spoke.
"W-W-why sh-sh-sure, gold you say? Comps? I can always use those."
"We even brought you the materials naka, no need to gather it yourself." again the dragon spoke, dropping a bag full of mithril bars and crafted steel.
The naka quickly made the rune styluses for the dragon, expecting to be paid. The payment was swift and painless as the dragon skewered the naka with his claw, killing him in an instant.
"Foolish naka, never trust a lunus dragon"
ggaaaahhhh:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
It does not fit Lunus lore, nor the natural flow of evolution.Quote:
If you want something that fits Lunus lore
The dragon guild leaders of their clan set out. They searched long and hard to find their target; a Naka with the talents for making rune styluses. They found one practicing his craft near a human forge.
etc etc
Having a dragon have to ask an alien race something to interact better with them (Kuthit): it's fine, as both races are developing something to interact "from scratch". Something they don't rely upon for their very race to exist.
Having a dragon have to ask an alien race something their biology needs just for growing up and exist: very wrong, it just does not happen in any "credible" kind of species, even fantasy ones.
Furthermore, the example assigns Lunus:
- wile cunning and no honor. Lunus are not the "bad guys", nor the "evil bubba" American movies etc. quickly describe as obvious nasties with every disgraceful feature.
- accepting compromise. Nope, they stay well apart from even beginning to deal with the non fiend "nakas".
In one the quests I did (Draak attunement) the NPC narrates how when some Elf addressed dragons hastily using their portal, the answer was direct and blunt: incinerated to ashes, no question asked.
- cowardly killing the baited biped after "the service", like in the B class movies.
If I had to provide a "lore" based approach I'd just suggest a Lunus "attack" on an artisan shop to grab stiluses off it.
On the lore question:
Keep in mind that dragons have twice utterly destoyed human kingdoms - Mellohndar and Barasavus. Killing a human artisan or taking what was wanted from a shop are both actions that either Helian or Lunus dragons might commit, if they were so inclined in the first place. Granted, a Helian would be less likely to kill the artisan, but it can't be ruled out. Anyway...
It is not a bad thing for dragons to need biped products; in fact, it's good for the game. The problem is that dragons have no consumable product that bipeds need. The game does not need fewer quests where dragons need bipeds, it needs more quests where bipeds need dragons.
I don't think anyone on the team would disagree on those two points, but addressing them isn't going to happen overnight.
Dragons are spirits of fire who have taken on physical form, yes. From the lore in the RoP, part of becoming an adult has always been shedding the hatchling form and manifesting a brand new, adult body. The destruction of the Sleeper made the traditional way of doing this impossible, so dragons found a work-around, which is the RoP that we know. Therefore, it is possible that the RoP or the ARoP may change at some point, since neither one is exactly what Drulkar set down for his people.
It's also possible that they may not, you never know... :D
I always found the biped requirements to break continuity. The requirements make no sense whatsoever.
If it must stay in it's ludicrous and irritating form then perhaps changing it so that if a biped wants to split their mind into multiple schools of thought (Multiclassing) they are required to do a quest and obtain a few dragon only items. These quests requiring them to humble themselves to the dragons in order to grow as a character.
This way the biped can choose not to deal with the dragons at the expense of being stuck as a single class just as dragons can choose not to deal with bipeds and get stuck as a hatchling.
I don't agree or disagree with you Vahrokh... that is "your" interpretation of how a Lunus should act.
Dragons are not all peaceful and law abiding either. Not all Lunus can be good either :)
You can take it from any perspective, a Lunus would get what he/she needs through what ever means necessary, even if it means deception and cold blooded killing of a naka. If you take them forcibly from the Naka, you have gained distrust with him, and his race as he will spread the word not to trust you. Might as well kill him and discard the body. Yes, that's 'evil' and 'almost gangster' role playing, but it's just a story none the less.
I can see a "Lunus gone bad" doing this, and it's just a story of my perspective of how a Lunus would get his/her supply of styluses being the bully. ;)
No harm no foul :)
I'd suggest some kind of random stat boosting tricket type thing (but you know, actually good, without the auto-death option that all trickets have when used in combat, even the lowest level ones, and the ethereal ones), or maybe, as others have said, some type of crystal.
The following is all viewed off a roleplay point of view:
Lunus are warriors, not rogues.Quote:
You can take it from any perspective, a Lunus would get what he/she needs through what ever means necessary, even if it means deception and cold blooded killing of a naka.
In a RP point of view, I wouldn't mind a biped army dead, but I would not lower myself to deceive them like they'd do among themselves.
I don't seek trust from the Nakas. I avoid them or, eventually, fight them.Quote:
If you take them forcibly from the Naka, you have gained distrust with him, and his race as he will spread the word not to trust you
Having no surviving witness won't let any word to be spread.
Even if word would spread, I'd have but to go another town and crack another shop for the stuff I need.
A Lunus gone bad is like an Helian gone bad: individual not representing his faction (nor race) mentality.Quote:
I can see a "Lunus gone bad" doing this, and it's just a story of my perspective of how a Lunus would get his/her supply of styluses being the bully.
"Lunus Gone Bad" - is that the title of a new DVD series for dragons 18 & over? :D
I really think people should think more about game mechanics, and less about lore.
This is a MMORPG. This is a game where people interact with other players ; it <would be non-sense to make some people completely independant from others. There's no point playing such MMO then, except the 3D-chatbox thing...
And don't tell me that bipeds are independant because they can do anything. Of course, they can after a (long) while. How many master crafters do you know ? On the Order shard, I counted only 3 of them. The others must rely on other players to get what they need.