Quote:
Originally Posted by Helcat
They are also people I've personally SEEN in game, Helcat. Arromere and Darksun are ACTUAL players. They are very quiet. But they are in game.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helcat
They are also people I've personally SEEN in game, Helcat. Arromere and Darksun are ACTUAL players. They are very quiet. But they are in game.
Why is that any more interesting than some folks who have hundreds of posts are adamantly against this "adjustment?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Helcat
I've played since launch. I've got the Moyo guild plots all to myself (won it with a plot token in the post-merge auctions). I've got a lair too (which is 120x144x120, and only cost me a silver since it's in Moyo, too). I've got over 10 gold with not much to spend it on. I've got all the Tier V armor, jewelry, weapons and scales I'll ever need. The PB "adjustment" isn't going to affect me a lick.
And I adamantly oppose this "adjustment."
there posts are not anti-economy, they are anti-pawnbroker change. please put your bias on a leash for a sec.Quote:
Originally Posted by gopher65
if they are trolls, they don't post like them. they have well thought out responses to why they do not like the change. I know it may seem impossible, that a player that doesnt have umpteen 100s can have an opinion in this matter, but most seem legit to me.
Perhaps this matter hit them closer than we realize, and prompted them to create a board account and post their say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie
Pretty close to why I quit. Once the direction of the game became a foreign language to me because I was'nt in IRC added to the length of time and amount of effort it took for them to show some support for NPAI knew that the someday you will see all the great changes arguement did'nt hold any water for me anymore. TWO YEARS and plots are still not what they were said to be at release and if lairs work mabey that'll finally be ingame. All I know is dont give up and fight for what you belive because if you sit back and wait you'll just get more changes that make very little sence to the average gamer. Also remember that what we liked about this gameWILL be done by another game and better so dont feel trapped here.
The only saving grace is how amazing 90 percent of the player base is shame that the only reasonalot ofpeople stay are so easily ignored when changes are in the pipeline. It'syour game so do what you want devs but you'll notice within this thread are the ideas( and good ones) of what should of been done instead do what you will with it. You wont have many left to see these amazing changes (if they ever appear) if you continue this direction of zero communication with what player base is left.
OR...Quote:
Originally Posted by tjl
perhaps certain selfish veteran players are playing Chicken Little
and telling the newbies how bad this change is for them, and
that they had better get on the boards and threaten to quit in
order to coerce Tulga into backing down from their decision...
As I've said already, new players, not having been spoiled by
unlimited, mindless gold generation, won't know a lick of
difference as a result of this change. It's the spoiled vets who
are doing the most crying about it.
If you're all really so concerned about this affecting new players,
and are telling me you are not against this change for selfish
motives, then how about proposing the following:
Pawn Brokers will accept unlimited amounts of items for
Tiers I and II only; and to balance this, PBs will accept ZERO
items from all Tiers above T2.
In addition, coin values for lower-tier craft quests can be increased,
with new tasks for the Empire instituted as development time permits.
Prove your concern is really for the new players.
I would say up to Tier III if you want New lower level players not to be crippled as they are now. But all that will happen then is that people will grind tier II or tier III items.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helcat
As I said this problem is a balance issue yes. But its A PURE undebateable symptom of player populations. This wouldn't even be an issue if Chaos and order bother had 1000 to 1500 players per night. Then the player economy would be THRIVING. Yes I can say that because it did when the numbers were that high. Sure you still had crafters doing PB runs but there were many more working the consigners and taking orders.
All they really had to do was decrease the amount that PB's paid for each tier item. They could have cut it in half and it would have still left a viable means for someone to make coin in a game where the player POPULATION cannot support sales and consigments as it is.
As it is now Horizons is not viably playable for lower level OR returning higher level players. I could go back to my main right now and he has 4 or 5 gold. Thats enough for him to survive on and buy a plot. Most returning and new players don't have much and what this did was shut them out of plots and a very limited number of dragon lairs....
If they want this change to stick they MUST do the following
1) either increase Smeglors posted buy out powers 5 or 6 times OR simplye more logically reduce what the PB's were paying UNTIL such a time that the player population numbers could support useless PB's. Right now they only serve to buy what very little NON resource type drops there are in game for adventurers to sell. So yes they are almost useless to adventurers as well.
2) Increase 10 fold what drops from mobs. In adventuring I should be able to loot countless items that are useless equipment wise but sell reasonably well to the ingame vendors. Coin drops need to be upgraded 2 to 3 times higher than what they are now for NON WA mobs and all mobs levels 1 to 50 period. This isn't subject to debate if Tulga wants this PB change to work. Don't know how to do so ? get your developers a couple of WOW and EQ2 accounts and you will see the definition of well balanced games in this regard. Cause right now people mostly get... bricks boards bars and slabs and wood... that are all limited by the PB as to what they will buy.
3) remove consignment limits... sure this may... eliminate most consigners from usefullness as people will settle on one hub. But it would make selling much more easier for the crafter and less tedious ... which the game is tedious as it is .....
I'm sure there are other solutions but this change was ill considered and ill timed. This isn't rocket science is just logical common sense. Of which seemed to be missing with this decision. So perhaps Tulga ought to not take what goes on in IRC as gospel. They probably should have tested the waters by asking around in game and then perhaps sticking it on blight so people could see. Instead of.... slipping in a stealth nerf like this which never goes over well. It isn't changed I promise horizons will lose any ground player numbers wise they have made in the last few months in less than a month. People play these games to have fun. They play a game like horizons to relax... they don't play them when they become stupidly boring and an over grind.
If there was even a paragraph displaying a complete lack of understanding of how the game works, that was it. You know how many mobs its possible to kill at once in Horizons. You saw that while getting PL'd during your brief return. Yeah the drop rates suck for single target killing, especially for single classed people, new people leveling up etc. But this sort of change would just rampantly reward mob farming, even more so then its already rewarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryagain
real mature of you Malto...
you're beginning to become predictable when losing your arguments.
perhaps certain selfish veteran players are playing Chicken Little
and telling the newbies how bad this change is for them, and
that they had better get on the boards and threaten to quit in
order to coerce Tulga into backing down from their decision...
What's so bad about "backing down" from a bad decision. AE has been listening to players like Helcat and Hal'Cyon for too long and as a result have made some poor decisions. There is nothing wrong with reversing a negative decision. If they will listen to a small, loudminority and make world-wide changes, I hope they will listen to the majority and adjust those changes.This PB thing is causing frustrated players who don't normally come on to the forums to come on here and voice their opiniontp preventthe few loud playersfrom damagingthe game we love any further.
Want to fix the economy? Stop limiting how much money people can make. Who spends more money? someone with ten dollars or someone with ten thousand dollars? Some people would argue that there is too much money in the game. I say there is not enough. When I look at my money I see a spot for a mithril coin. Is there anyone in the game that has ever accumulated a mithril coin? The most I've ever had is just over 4 gold because I keep spending my money and I will keep spending my money so long as I can keep earningit. Earlier, the money from hunting was limited so people started to rely on PBs for income. Now that is gone.
Now I'm told that to earn money, I should make some items and put them on the connie and sell them to other players. This is flawed for alot of reasons.
1. where do the players that are gonna buy the items I have crafted gonna get their money? they can't get it by selling to PBs and hunting to raise money takes forever to earn a reasonable amount. If I have a hard time earning money, I'm not gonna be quick to spend it, especially on something that's gonna decay.
2. There is not a high enough player base to maintain a healthy economy based on players buying and selling. Attempting to put decay in (another bandaid fix) is an attempt to force an already too small population to support the economy. Decay will definately affect the economy. It will make more people quit and shrink the population base even more.
3. If I have to rely on connie sales, I'm gonna have to raise prices on what I sell, especially with how much time and personal expense it takes to make items. Expenses raise when, to stock a connie you have to put in many combinations of tools, armour, weapons, and scales because you have to guess what people are gonna want. As a result, some items will sell and some won't so to make it profitable, you would have to recoup the loss from the unsold items as well which will further raise prices.
4. One big reason the "economy" isn't where AE wants it to be is because people are not charging people for services or items. This is great. the economy is suffering but the community is thriving. These recent changes are forcing players to be less giving and helpful because now they are gonna have to make money.
I have only three suggestions to improve the economy.
1. rather then constrict how players make money, create new ways to make money. If you want some of those ways to be through other players, that's fine but there must be ways of acquiring money on one's own through hunting and crafting. More money in people's pockets = a stronger economy.
2. Instead of having crafters guess about what people want, intigate a "wish list" board where players can go to a connie and post what they want and what they are willing to pay. Thay way a crafter can browse through it and see what people want, and how much they are willing to pay. You could even have the prospective buyer put the money up when they post. When a crafter sees it. they make the item and turn it in and collect their fee. The item is then sent to the buyer's vault and a notice is sent to them that their requested item has been made.
3. Advertise. Get more people in the game. Make it people friendly. Remember that most people are looking for entertainment so before anymore changes are instigated, ask yourself. Is this gonna make this game more fun?
The thing that gets me the most about all these nerfs and adjustments is that it's making the game less fun. At the end of the day, most people who play Horizons are playing for entertainment. What's wrong with everyone being rich? Why can't I power level? Is it so wrong to have alot of nice items? It's fun!!! That's what some extremist players are missing. They want to make the game harder. Why? These uber players are never gonna be satisfied. I can understand why they want to instigate these changes. They want an extremechallenge. The problem is. most of the Horizonsplayers want something fun to do in the few hours they have between family, work and other RL responsibilities. If you are playing casually, it takes a long time to become uber but it is possible. Some of the changes we have seen have extended the time it takes to realize high levels. There must be a balance between not leveling too fast and leveling too slow. If it happens too fast then people will leave. Most people realize that. What the Uber players are missing is that if it takes too long, players will leave as well. I, Personally, can max one or two characters in most mmorpgs in 3-4 months and am bored and move on. I have been playing Horizons for close to two years. I Beta tested Horizons. I play more then all my friends and I'm still not even close to maxing out my character. There are some players out there that are trying to convince AE and other players that there are major flaws in the game and that in order to fix it, extreme changes must be made. Leave the game alone. It has a few small bugs but all in all it's fine, well it was anyways.
so now what's wrong with the game is my fault. Gotcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie
[8-)]
edited to add:
and seeing that you are another who just signed up to the forums
in the past day, how would you even know what my views have
been, and whether or not I've influenced any changes?
What the hell do you need money for in this game anyway? [:P]
During all 6 pages of this thread, all I have seen is a bug of morons saying you can't make money anymore. Have any of you tried the pawnbroker? Have you seen how much cash you can still make?
Anyone that uses their brain instead of their big fast mouths will realize this is just adding diversity, it is not limiting and stopping you from making money. You can craft tools, resources, construction materials and load them up on one pb... spells, and weapons are such a high selection that it really doesn't matter, you will still make the same cash.
The only person this affects is the massive abusers and grinders that find the single easiest item to work and never move away (dragon gems for example), and even then they just need to make on more port to an open pawnbroker.
First off, I'm not calling anyone stupid or any other name. All opinions expressed here are done so honestly and in the belief that it will make their game better.
I will say that, just like the real economy, if a change is needed a small tweak is done and then you sit back and watch it to see what happens. A number of ppl have expressed a concern that the economy "could be better." That means something has to be tried to change it. It's impossible to predict what the after effect of any economical change will be. There are too many variables. We have general guides, but we've also seen that they are not 100% accurate. The only true way to knowwhat kind of change this will be is to try it.
I don't know whether this is good or bad. It may be bad for me but good for far more players. I'm a dragon on Blight, the lowest population server. From reading the thread, I'm in line to be hit the hardest with this.Few players to trade with and very limited crafted items to sell.
I'm willing to give it a try for a bit, however, before instantly rejecting it. It may produce more good than harm, if not for me, then other player types. If the game becomes more attractive then the player base grows and the economy improves. If not, then we can put this back and try something else. There is no guarantee this change will fix our economical problems. It is 100% certain, however, that status quo won't fix it.
Helcat,
You bet it's your fault. you and every other uber character that have been advocating for these negative changes.
I know what you've been saying because I've been spending alot of time reading all these forums. (I would rather be playing Horizons) Yoiu have posted over 500 times. You spend more time in here then in the game.
You are right that I just started posting. I have to. I've been silent too long and look what happened to the game.
If you think these recent changes are so good, Helcat, then delete your character and start again. give up everything you have now and go though the game as it is. When you reach 100/100 again. then i'll believr you when you say the changes are good. You say these changes make the game better and don't hurt new players, prove it.
heheheh
thanks for the laugh though.
rofl, you people slay me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie
FYI, the illuminati and the lizard people are working on bringing down Tulga from the inside.
See the thing is, this change won't do anything (except anger some people). You have to have an economy to tweak an economy, and this game does not have one. there is infinite supply, and next to zero demand. the pawnbrokers/nadia/etc are currently filling this demand that the low population and capped out playerbase cannot. If Tulga's motive was to stop pawnbroker runs of single items ad nauseum for insane cash, they went about the fix the wrong way.Quote:
Originally Posted by FleshRoast
A better way would be to place the limits on the individual person making the items, and not the broker. if there is 2999 gems on some pawnbroker, myself and everyone else on the server can only make 1 gem for money on that pawnbroker for the rest of the day. That kills the community spirit, since pawnbrokers built for all to use must now be locked up, or else you run the risk of not being able to use it.
better solution #1) like I said above, place the limits on the persons, so even if that broker has 2999 gems on him, he has zero from me, and I can sell my 3000 for the day. all items we make are tagged with our biote ID (i think), this should not be terribly difficult to implement.
better solution #2) If the payoff is too great from pawning stuff, lower the pawn price!!
better solution #3) Get rid of pawnbrokers altogether. this would be the most fair way to fix the problem. In place of pawns, put other more non-exploitable methods of crafting for cash. resource quests, very similar to trophy quests for adventurers. we after all, are at war with the WA... the front lines need a ton of items.[8-)]
better solution #3.5) in conjunction with any of these changes (even the one we have now): Add some substaintial money sinks and/or item decay. If we have a reason to spend money, money will have some value. The pawnbrokers are not the primary reason behind the devauling of money. They are only half of the reason... they are pumping it into the game wayyyy faster than it is leaving the game.
I don't think new players or those recently joined will be much affected by this.
I am a new player (since a couple of weeks) and never had any real money problems. Anything over 1s is expensive to me. If there wasa way to earn money fast and easy, and I knew about it, my standards might have changed to allow me to buy more expensive gear. But the new players conception of a silver coins value won't change since we haven't experienced the gold rush with PB.
My problem is that making a trip to gather resources is expensive due to the portal fees.
ROFL maybe because like some of us he's been here for almost 2 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie
Just go read some of the threads on the ancient size reduction, four main threads pages and pages long, not one response from the devs. A handful of vocal players responsible for the state of the game? Riiiiight!
Hmmm Sunday afternoon, time for a brief survey
Some impromptu counting gives me approximately
650types of spells
540types of armor
120types of jewelry
245types of scales/scalepacks
20backpacks/pouches/sacks/satchels
170types of tools
300types of weapons
80type of potions
not counting raw, or processed resources, foods, construction materials, gadgets, dragon claws, misc junk, cargo disks, etc.
Heira of Aughundell had 0 of the above 2125 item types, 4 item types from the latter uncounted grouping.
Gilran of Aughundell had 2 of the former, 10 of the latter
Periadan of Chiconis had 1 of the former, 1 of the latter
Pablo of Dalimond had 7 of the former 1 of the latter
Septianus of Dralk had 2 of the former 8 of the latter
Maethor of Feladan had 0 of the former 3 of the latter
Rinos ofKion had 0 of the former 2 of the latter
Marcus of Kion had 0 of the former4 of the latter
Vasileos of Kirasanct had 0 of the former 7 of the latter
Hegron of Mahagra had 0 of the former 1 of the latter
Gimber of New Rachival had 1 of the former 1 of the latter
Reg of Sslanis had 0 of the former 3 of the latter
Jonus of New Brommel had 7 of the former 2 of the latter
Michael of New Korelia had 0 of the former 1 of the latter
Geoff of New Trismus had 8 of the former 15 of the latter
Ozier of New Vasserak had 0 of the former 1 of the latter
I could draw 2 conclusions from that.
1.) People are too busy whining about the system on the forums, to actually try it out, give it an honest chance,and see how it works.
or
2.) The system works pretty well, item stacks are removed at a decent rate, and all these complaints are unfounded.