-
Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
As part of looking into ways to improve the enjoyment of the game for all levels of player, we began looking into the quality of loot that drops from Named Mobs of all tiers. And we devised a system by which Named Mobs (including Epics) would drop a new tiered type of Soul Shard.
These Soul Shards could be traded or sold between players and then eventually traded at a new type of NPC Vendor for special unique items. It is these items that we wanted to get your opinions of.
So, the question is what types of items would you like to see on these vendors? And, if you like the idea of this system at all.
- Rare Weapons
- Old Dragon Techniques (Dismissal, Eminence, etc)
- Ambrosia (Items, not formulas)
- New Spells
- New Techniques
- Old Event Items (Staff of Ribeth, Thurin Hatchet, etc)
Q. Would this replace existing epic loot on mobs such as Valkor and Reklar?
A. Yes, it would. Valkor and Reklar parts would then be sold by the Vendors.
Q. What sort of new spells or techniques?
A. Tier 6 Spells, Dragon Gift Spells, Enhance Tradeskills, Rare Kicker Techniques, Shock of Ice/Fire/etc, Cleanse greater than Tier 3, etc.
Q. Would items purchased from the vendor be tradeable?
A. No, all items purchased from the vendor using Soul Shards would be attuned automatically.
Q. Will old Soul Fragments work?
A. No, these vendors will use a new tiered type of Soul Shard.
Q. Will more items be added over time?
A. Yes, they will.
Q. How rare will the Soul Shards be?
A. Rare, but not impossibly rare. The odds of getting a Soul Shard from a Named Mob will be greater on the more difficult of the Named Mobs.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
I'm a bit torn here - so I may chime in with more of a formed opinion after I read the thoughts of others.
On one hand, I like the idea and see where you might be trying to go. I get the purpose of removing specific rare parts off of named mobs due to the frustration people have with getting each specific part (and say you've killed the thing 20 times and the part you need isn't dropped, etc.). I also get the idea of having multiple items to pick up with the "Soul Shards" so it gives people more reason to keep running the same content (the named mobs), gives more incentive and rewards, so there's more just stuff.
However, I dont like the idea because of the nature of the rewards. These rewards appear to be effectively putting in an "end game" so to speak, where people will now fill driven to get each and every reward on the vendor to "epic out" their character with the highest techs/armor/weapons/spells/etc. This to me puts in just a different version of end game grind that other games have. Instead of runnig that 5 or 10 man dungeon for the next few months to get XYZ piece of upgrade, in Istaria instead you just kill the same named mobs over and over and over again until you get your 110 soulshards to get all your upgrades. (numbers random lol).
On the one hand while I get the "need" for some aspect of the game at end game to provide a reason and reward to continue grinding content. But on the other hand, this isn't providing content - its just providing epic rewards for doing the same content over and over again. Seems like a shortcut. Which, not necessarily anything wrong with that on the surface - I'd just rather see the time spent in developing new content itself, and not rewarding the farming of old content as much.
Course I also realize that developing new content takes far and away more time than just putting up a few rewards on a vendor.
I don't know, its just leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Wether its because its encouraging mass farming of names for hours on end at level 100/100 adinfenitum, or just because I'd rather see soul shards give fluff items and not actual 'in game effect' items. I'm not sure.
Again like I said, my thoughts are jumbled, but that's my first impression.
But perhaps the hardcore hunters are really wanting something like this in place, in which case I can't give that opinion as I'm not one =D I'm just torn with the whole idea, with the only thought that giving out cool fluff items instead for the grind makes the bad taste go away. But with giving out end-game upgrade items, it just..I dont know..makes that grind seem more 'required' and not 'optional.'
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
I am very much for this idea.
Only thing I would ask that these shards are a rare drop (IE can't be farmed and burnt out in a week).
Also bear in mind that some of us have pieces of epics, but not full sets. It might be worth allowing players an option of cashing in their pieces (if they want to) for shards before this new proposed system goes in.
PS Rare craft equipment?
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
this is very difficult to answer for me.
I love the idea that named mobs drop something that is worth the effort.
And I agree with Chasing that is has to be REAL rare.
I go with Frith and prefer the rewards to be rather "nice to have" than "must have".
Though I still do not have the Reklar Scale (after 7 years^^) I am not sure if I like the idea that Reklar and Valkor hunts (which are real endgame content for me) will become useless.
But all other rewards that are described are fine for me.
But this is only my first impression. Have to think it over again.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Perhaps some of the existing epics should be beefed up a bit to bring them in line with the harder ones and to provide more of a challenge :P
Another thought, what happens to existing complete epics that are currently attune on equip? Will they automatically be attuned?
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Things I'd like to see added to the vendor:
Bat of the Gnerph
Boar's Hide Mask
Primal Vengeance Tech
My one question pertains to the hunt itself. will the soul shard itself be tradeable? I've seen very few times hunting Valkor, Reklar, Fafnir, Daknor, and SoG where it wasn't a full group taking it down. Often at the end of the kill, those in the group /random for the predominant loot of the hunt. I'm certainly hoping these soul shards don't attune on looting or there'll be some really nasty in-game disputes over who gets one when.
Otherwise, I'm in favor of this one. Maybe I can get the other four pieces of Valkor's sword in time this way.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Oooh. The potential for a system like this is exciting.
The only item on the list of potentials that I'm not sure I'd go for is Ambrosia, simply because that will be very hard to balance correctly. Either it'll be too easy to get, and Confectioners take a hit, or too hard and no one will buy it. Other than that, I'd love to see all of them make it onto this new shard vendor. If I had to pick and choose though, I'd have to go with:
- The old dragon techs
- The old event items
- New techniques
I'm not sure I entirely like the idea of putting the drops from specific epic mobs on here though. If things like Valkor no longer drop things that can't be gotten anywhere else, they'll probably just not be hunted any longer in favor of mobs that are easier to kill.
Therefore, I have an idea: have these mobs drop tokens specific to themselves. Valkor would drop a Valkor token, SoG would drop a SoG token, etc. These tokens would then be tradeable for the items that that specific mob used to drop.
This way, you still must hunt Valkor to get Valkor pieces, but the whole gamble of getting the part you need to actually drop out of a myriad of possible pieces no longer applies and there can never be a time when a whole group gets nothing any of the members need.
You could even explain this in-lore by saying that these tokens contain the essence of that mob and when you put it into an item you get the pieces associated with that mob or something.
It's a bit more dev work, but I think it would be worth it to make sure that the epic mobs still feel epic and unique and still get hunted for those reasons.
Also, I definitely second that these soul shards should not be attuned, both for the reason that C`gan stated and, because these shards would likely be very valuable, having them tradeable could encourage people to buy them from other players at, I suspect, a high cost.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
I would very much like the chance to get old items:
Regal set weapons and equipment.
The old dragon techs, particularly PV are sorely needed on Order.
I would love to get my claws on old event items.
I'd rather not see ambrosia drop.
Relkar and valkor parts as they stand are STUPID rare. I know people that have been in game 5-7 years, hunt every weekend and still not have a full set to create the piece.
Can't count how many times that spear drops off of SOG so getting a token to trade for something you'd need would be very much appreciated. At least then you KNOW you're getting closer to your goal.
My only concern is this:
Q. Would items purchased from the vendor be tradeable?
A. No, all items purchased from the vendor using Soul Shards would be attuned automatically.
This is fine for T5 and 6 items, but for lower level items that are more trinkets than anything useful should not attune on equip. The Gnef bat, Staff of Ribeth are good collectibles sought out for the uniqueness of the item and/or the lore attached to it, so should have no reason to be attuned.
Lately I've been seeing less and less of a reason to be a plot owner. Why own more storage and pay for that storage if we are not allowed to use it.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Attuned items would be much less of a problem if they were both zero bulk and took zero stack space.
Knossos
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
I agree with Raptress about the specific Soul Shards from mobs. ie Valkor Soul Shards to make a Valkor epic weapon.
But one thing I dislike about Amon's proposal is replacing player crafted epic items with NPC provided ones.
So my Valkor epic weapon (talon/bow/sword/etc) that was once created by a highly skilled player crafter is now handed out by an NPC.
This is removing high end goals/rewards that crafters can set for themselves. eg I need to get to level xx craft-school so I can scribe my Valkor form to make my epic weapon.
So while the right hand is giving us the opportunity to have rare things more available, the left hand is taking away craftable content from us at the same time.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Alright let's break this down shall we?
Quote:
These Soul Shards could be traded or sold between players and then eventually traded at a new type of NPC Vendor for special unique items.
First initial thought: Yes.. YES! Make it happen now. o.o
Quote:
So, the question is what types of items would you like to see on these vendors? And, if you like the idea of this system at all.
- Rare Weapons
- Old Dragon Techniques (Dismissal, Eminence, etc)
- Ambrosia (Items, not formulas)
- New Spells
- New Techniques
- Old Event Items (Staff of Ribeth, Thurin Hatchet, etc)
At this point I let out a squeal like dragon at a gnome convention.
Quote:
Q. Would this replace existing epic loot on mobs such as Valkor and Reklar?
A. Yes, it would. Valkor and Reklar parts would then be sold by the Vendors.
Aaaaaand stop.
The is the part where my pessimistic side rears it's ugly head. Before I start jumping to conclusions and running worst-case scenarios in my head (ooops too late)....I need to clarify a few things.
Now if I understand this correctly, the way this will work is the epic mobs will have a rare chance to drop these soul shards. And by collecting xxx amount of said soul shards you will be able to trade them in for pieces of weapons? Versus what we have now....where the same exact epic mobs have a chance of dropping pieces right from the get go.....
Sooooo.... instead of getting a piece.....I get a soul shard.....which is useless until I get more.....soul shards.... which I can then trade them in for ....a piece. *looksaround* Am I understanding this right? Is it just me or doesn't this seem more like an "extra step" design to make it harder to actually obtain individual pieces?
I mean sure...it might be better if you just need that one-piece-that-never-ever-ever-seems-to-drop-because-the-monster-being-a-bleeping-hole....but what about the folks who just started and don't have a single piece yet? Now they have to hunt xxx amount of times to just get enough soul shards to buy just one piece?
And to follow that up, how exactly will said soul shards be distributed amongst the masses? Will it be that if the mob drops it, everyone in the group gets an equal share in the loot and a soul shard will drop automatically in their inventory?
Or
Will it be a copycat of the system we have now were it's just be one soul shard that the five of us will be expected to share amongst ourselves >.>(On your mark! Get ready! Ninja loot it baby!)
Joking aside-I seriously would like to know how the soul shards will be distributed amongst players who each play a vital role in defeating these monsters.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmonGwareth
- Rare Weapons
- Old Dragon Techniques (Dismissal, Eminence, etc)
- Ambrosia (Items, not formulas)
- Old Event Items (Staff of Ribeth, Thurin Hatchet, etc)
Uhm... no way! Your killing a whole economy then by making these items less worth. Be creative, make something new. Dont go lazy and reuse all the old stuff. Get new things, it aint that hard to make items... Istaria is boring as it is, especially for veterans who prolly will be using this system the most. We need - NEW - stuff, more goodies, not old stuff (no matter how good they are) being brought into the game again!!
Quote:
Q. Would this replace existing epic loot on mobs such as Valkor and Reklar?
A. Yes, it would. Valkor and Reklar parts would then be sold by the Vendors.
This is a no go for me. Just make the 'soul fragments' drop not as often. Im talking 1 every 4-5 kills. Also these should - only - be dropped by epics monsters. And since there are no lower tier epic bosses than T6.. its time to start adding some for the lower tiers, every tier IMHO. Give the adventurers a real challenge through out all tiers.
Quote:
Q. What sort of new spells or techniques?
A. Tier 6 Spells, Dragon Gift Spells, Enhance Tradeskills, Rare Kicker Techniques, Shock of Ice/Fire/etc, Cleanse greater than Tier 3, etc.
Sounds promising... but needs more details
Quote:
Q. Would items purchased from the vendor be tradeable?
A. No, all items purchased from the vendor using Soul Shards would be attuned automatically.
Agree
Quote:
These Soul Shards could be traded or sold between players and then eventually traded at a new type of NPC Vendor for special unique items. It is these items that we wanted to get your opinions of.
This is a - must - for this system to work. Might get some trading started.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Knossos
Attuned items would be much less of a problem if they were both zero bulk and took zero stack space.
Totally agree, if you make the new stuff attuned this should be taken care of. Its getting really annoying these days with the darn attuned items all over the game now.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Xanthia
A
Sooooo.... instead of getting a piece.....I get a soul shard.....which is useless until I get more.....soul shards.... which I can then trade them in for ....a piece. *looksaround* Am I understanding this right? Is it just me or doesn't this seem more like an "extra step" design to make it harder to actually obtain individual pieces?
Well think about how many people you generally need to take down Valkor. Lets say you do it with 6. There are 20 weapon pieces and 4 weapon formulas, making for a total of 24 pieces. Valkor will drop 1 of these 24. This 1 out of 24 will then be rolled for among your group of 6. Now, starting out you'll just need any 1 of the 5 pieces for the weapon you want (if we're not counting the formula), but when you get to that last piece it'll be a 1 out of 144 chance of Valkor dropping that piece and you winning the roll out of 6 people.
Also, on the note of removing the stack for attuned items. You guys are aware that removing the stack would mean that the database would have to be able to expand to an infinite degree, right? While bulk only really serves to limiting how much you can carry before becoming encumbered, stack would require that a new database entry be made. (Can't say for sure how it works, but it's likely something along the lines of: "*Item ID* stored in *vault of character* on space *vault grid space* in a quantity of *number*(Bulk)" Each item in each individual space would need some sort of entry in the database to represent it.
However, I may have an idea that could help alleviate some burden of the attuned items.. I dunno.. I'll make a post in the suggestions thread about it.
As for the topic: I agree with the idea as a whole. Perhaps handling the rare weapons in a way similar to what Raptress suggested.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
- Rare Weapons
- Old Dragon Techniques (Dismissal, Eminence, etc)
- Ambrosia (Items, not formulas)
- New Spells
- New Techniques
- Old Event Items (Staff of Ribeth, Thurin Hatchet, etc)
I REALLY like this idea, as a younger player who never even got a chance at getting old event stuff, or the techs(which I would kill to have. =P) This would make me very pleased. the new Techs/spells also catches my eye, would love to have some new stuff as well.
However, what i would like to get a quick clearing on is do soul Shards drop from every Named mob? (rare chance of course =p) ->
Quote:
The odds of getting a Soul Shard from a Named Mob will be greater on the more difficult of the Named Mobs.
<- But if not and its only Epic mobs, i think most people are going to be dissapointed. (like Xanthia said: XXX soul shards for a part instead of just getting the psrt in the first place??) Perhapes they should drop from all named mobs but the 'price' for them goes up the higher the tier of monster it fell off of???
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Like Dak said, new stuff, not old stuff. Old stuff that was never implemented would ok to make use of though (such as kickers in some fashion and dismissal)
Giving out old items because you think that's what people want is the wrong way. They are desired because they are rare. When they aren't rare, they won't be as desired. So you squish the desirability by giving them to everyone, but haven't made the game more fun to play, the hunts more fun to participate in, so what's the point? Everyone gets them and then what? What else is there that they will desire? Nothing. That's a dead end road.
-- deleted for being off-topic --
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Okay I'm keen for something along the lines of whats been suggested to be implemented so lets break down the issues (so far)
1. Grind vs Balance
No easy way to say this, in order for something to be rare, it has to be a challenge to get it. If its too easy to obtain a rare/epic item then its burn out content (which I am sick of). I don't want to be able to burn through the content in 1day/1week. It needs to take months (but not years :P). That way it's something that keeps people going as a goal and keeps hunting groups going. With the way it is at the moment, it is difficult for player's to get a hunting group together for the epics unless they are part of a large guild/circle of friends.
2. Easiest mobs/epics will be farmed
Always. I can already see Son of Gigaroth camped 24/7 as he is the easiest/quickest epic to take down. Therefore either he should drop a lower amount of shards (say compared to Reklar/Shaloth) or be adjusted to make him a lot more challenging to kill.
3. Attunement of items
Attunement is needed in order to keep items in demand and not in constant circulation. But I agree something needs to be done to address the amount of inventory/vault space they eat up.
4. Removal of master epic repair forms
I like the idea of specific soul shards (like a valkor shard). Allow the repair forms to be sold from this NPC trader and alter the repair forms so that it takes 5? valkor soul shards to craft the said item. Keeps in lore, and leaves a reason to hunt a specific epic for a specific item. However I would say that we need specific soul shards and a generic soul shard as well.
5. Trading rare/epic items from a NPC
As above people have already provided the solution
6. Drop rate of shards from an epic (and splitting among a group)
Could go down the route of the hardest to kill epic, drops the most soul shards (lets say 10 aka a full group), and the easiest epic drops only 1 or 2 soul shards.
Other option is to go down the instanced loot route (which is possible ingame as Daknor used to do it when he was first put in). However I'm not sure if instanced loot would help or hinder at this point.
7. Devaluing the worth of the existing rare items
I wondered how long it would take until this came up as an issue. Question is why are they being devalued? Is it because only a low % of ppl have them at the moment and they feel cheated that items they have spent a long time trying to get hold off suddenly become more available? What about the people that haven't played for over 7 years, and weren't around before the merge? Sorry but I feel that everyone should have an equal chance of getting a rare/epic item regardless of how long they may have played.
8. Possible attunement of the Shards
No where has Amon suggested that they would be attuned. However they definitely should not be attuned.
9. Tiered soul shards
One thing we aren't picking up on is that there are going to be soul shards for each tier. I would suggest that they can't be combined. IE 100x tier1 soul shards lets me buy a T6 item = EEK. If you want a T6 item you need to hunt T6, not mass farm T1 or lower tiers. If there is only one vendor I can see already that we are going to have a situation where this is going to happen.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Im 50 50 on this
YES EPION Is not complete until he has obtains the knowledge of vengeance
any thing that puts the tech or newer revised version of the quest back in the game i am for... HOWEVER
a Big Hell NO to the removal of epic loot thats already in the game
-- edited out, totally off-topic --
as for new loot
Yes i have thought of that 2 I think a reintegration of some "lost knowledge" along with some level appropriate items would be just what this game needs to get a solid player base again Like For example you guys implemented attuned tech Kits about 10 live patches ago building off this and Istarias rich story line is simple take where my lair is located for example Bayn hill
that was the sight of an EPIC battle where Reclar lost his life to the withered ages and became twisted and evil yet for some reason the Lunus adults do not learn about this at all ! Reclar was one of the Lunuses Main generals. yet there is no quest to discover what how it happened or what happened or both with the conclusion of the quest is to set reclar free and put him out of his misery there is soooo many ways you can introduce New epic loot throw epic story lines of all tires ...
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
I agree with Chasing in all points.
Things that are already ingame should be available for every player.
Some of them extremly rare- but possible to get.
All items that are already ingame or once were,
are untapped resources, sleeping assets- why waste them?
Though Flame and me managed to survive^^ without those goodies all those years (we have demonclaw and Flame has Valkor claw and flurry for his biped- but no old forms or techs or other items)
what joy would it be to be able to hunt for them!
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
The only negative thing i can see to this is pertaining to the lower tier boss mobs.
They will be farmed 24/7 not allowing the players that are actually at that lvl chance to kill said boss mob.
Just look at Tier 1 x-stals on the maggots in NT, constantly farmed by lvl 50+ players.
I'd be for it if either boss mobs needed for quests are removed from the new system.
Or perhaps a better way (dont know if its coding possible though) you only get a chance to get the new soul shard drop if your in the same Tier as the boss mob your fighting.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
I'm on the fence about it. While I would love to have the vengeance and eminence techs, along with dragon gifts, I can't help but feel that there would be problems with only putting these shards on certain mobs. Ninja looting, spawn camping, and lower tier farming come to mind first of all.
Sindala's example of the NT maggots is a prime example. The best way to alleviate this, I believe, is to code mobs so that if they grant no experience, they grant no loot. Which could, itself cause problems because sometimes tech components are rather difficult to get due to the massive amounts of spawn in some areas, and a single player can easily be overwhelmed.
I don't agree with some of the sentiments about ruining the economy by adding back some of the older items and techs. As it is, only a few even have some of these items, so they, essentially, have the corner on the market, and can pretty much control the market for those items. Should these players leave for any reason, then said items would no longer be available to anyone. Everyone should have the same opportunity to get the items. It should not be monopolized by any single person, or group of people.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
First off, to answer the over all question, I am a firm YES on this idea. I love the fact that you are bringing this to us in order to get feedback and suggestions. To me that basically says that it's not a question of "if" but "when" you will be going forward with something like this, have an overall general to indepth idea of how you want to implement it, but are open to suggestions/need input before you finalize the exact system. While there are many things that need fixing yet, this is definitely an addition to the game that will bring life to the current player base and also be an attraction for players looking to return to the game or just new players in general.
The idea about the Valkor and Reklar pieces having specific tokens that drop off of them is a great overall idea. It makes hunting them not irrelevant while people just farm easier epics, like others have stated. I'm sure since you are making different tier soul shards making these additional 2 soul shards that drop specifically from these two epics shouldn't be too much of a problem. But again, that's me both assuming, and hoping.
To those stating that bringing back old items will "ruin" the market that there is for them right now, please tell me what exact market that is? There are so few out there of the ones that people have, and it's not like they have multiple is almost every case, so they're not being traded/sold. I mean, if I saw even a couple times a month something like that being auctioned or sold then I could see the arguement that there's a "market" for these rare, no longer obtainable except by those who already have in game, items. Bringing them back just allows the people who were not here years ago, or who took a multiple year break (about 6 year in my case) the chance to obtain them too. This, from the rarity I'm reading, is actually going to *create* a market for these items, in an indirect way (as long as the soul shards are not attuned).
Regarding lower tiers as well as regular named mobs in the T5/6 range. My suggestion on the shards here is two fold. First, the drop rate on all regular named mobs needs to be extremely low so that regular named mobs aren't just farmed. With this being said, there's also step two, which is needing epic mobs for all tiers.
The way I suggest setting up the epics for lower tiers so that they are not just farmed by higher level players is as such. Have there be an NPC that offers "quests" to kill epics. I suggests that the quests offered depend on either your current adv or your highest adv class level. This would do many things. I would prevent high level players just farming shards of every tier, it would create a market for players of all levels (again, provided the shards are not attuned) and it would really give new players immediate excitement and a way to make some money or obtain cool items right off the bat. It also creates a need for players of similar level across all tiers to group together for something which right now isn't needed for anything until the end of the game. (if something is too hard, most people just come back to it later when they're a higher level)
Anyways, I see a lot of positive that can come out of this as well as it just being the start of something that will continue to get better and better as it's a framework for new content.
Just my 2 cents, or 2 pages.....
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
As a person who has had a uhh, lack of luck for his entire life, i'm going to say that having a chance drop is not a good idea ESPECIALLY if it is only on named mobs. I'm -still- trying to figure out a way to make a decent cash flow at season 100 (Removal of the Cash Purses ruined any income i had), so i doubt I'd be able to trade for a long time. Which is probably the absolute primary way I'd be trying to gain these things if it's a chance drop rate.
I'm all for needing multiple soul shards to purchase one item, i'd happily require 5, mabye even 10 per item depending on how powerful it is (well, not for unique piece shards), but make them a guarantee to drop, if the --average-- drop rate was 1 in 5, and an item needed more then one soul shard, the amount of grinding would get rather painfully long. I say this because i prefer to talk and rp rather then hunt, and if a chance drop, you could kill a monster four times and not get one, and then someone else kills it the fifth time and gets the shard, having only killed one, knocking out all the work you just did. I say that because all the mmos I've played, that situation has actually occurred A LOT.
And as others have said for Epic pieces such as Reklar or Valkor, make them require a unique soul shard from those epic level monsters
TL:DR
Make Shards guarentee drop, but require multiple per item
Give Epic items like Reklar or Valkor Drops a unique shard dropped from said mobs, at a 1:1 Shard Per Piece Ratio
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
The idea is not bad but i think better leave old and existed epic stuff as it is.. it works just fine so far.. instead, yes i support everyone who said it already, add something new.. new epic items with new unique effects and new system to obtain them.. for example, let both regular epic items and item parts drop from the epics plus this soul shards, shard number and chance depends on mob hardness, and the rest is up to imagination.. new spells sounds absolutely nice, i'd be glad to see a Banshee or Reyem Wrath epic spells in game, t6 buffs, t6 heals etc.. let it be a Vendor or let it be a new mini dungeon with challenging content that will require shards to pay for the entering, just anything.. dont touch old, make new.. unlike old bits that will only go for a part of players, new stuff will improve interest of both newbies and oldies..
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
No. No. No.
This is a lazy way to do it IMO.
Do random spawns of tough tiered mobs with appropiately tiered items.
And make the items attune upon looting. Otherwise you're gonna have EQ-esqe farming and consigning.
Diversity is the key. Heck, make some real nice stuff quest rewards instead of "killing" rewards. Nice doesnt alway equate to "powerful" either.
I think back to Gemstone days when something that was simply...different was real nice. Attach some unique emotes to items that you can click to use....
In gemstone I had a troll slayer sword that would perform 5 or 6 different emotes at random, and more while in combat along with a proc/flare up for a little extra damage....
or a cloak that gently ruffles in the breeze...
bows that twang when fired...
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
I think this is a great idea, especially with the possibility that old techniques can be reintroduced among the populations. Just not sure what I think about replacing existing epic loot, though.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Time to through in my 2 cents ;) The idea most definitely has considerable merit.
I think it’s best kept to new stuff only. After almost 7 years, I still only have things which can still be acquired in-game, so I’m not saying this because I have some of those converted long forgotten uber-rares.
The possible new spells/techs which you have suggested, Amon, sound very enticing. T6 Spells.... yes! Rare Kickers, yes! Cleanse greater than T3, yes YES! J maybe stun V, or heal recycle IV ;)
My beef, as others have expressed too, comes from essentially making the Big Bad posterior Boss fights obsolete. Please don’t add any current epics to the list. Leave SoG, Valkor and Reklar as is. But feel free to add Zealot, Rancor and Mace of Divination to the list (and a bit of beefing up wouldn’t hurt).
I would also suggest (and this may already be likely) that these new soul frags be tiered. This is kind of opposite to what Chasing said, but I think addresses the issue he raised. So for example a T1 soul frag may have a value of 5c, and a corresponding T1 “item” from the new vendor might be worth 100c as a starting value, while the better T1 gear might be worth up to 500c. Then a T2 soul frag might be worth 20c and a T2 item would be 1s+. Basically, you can use a T6 soul frag to purchase the lower tiered gear and vice versa. The number of soul frags at each tier should also increase for items of equal level. So using the numbers I just used, it would take 25 soul frags for a T1 item using T1 frags, up to say 100 frags at T5 for a T5 item. Since the frags have values, it also means that T1 frags can be used to purchase T2 gear, albeit you would need a lot more, but moving up tiers would not make the T1 frags useless. If they have values far enough apart, there is no way you could possibly use enough T1 soul frags to buy a T6 item realistically and this would also appease any problems with lower lvl mobs being farmed.
So in theory I support the idea 90%, just don’t add the current epics to the list and you have my undying support ;)
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
I'd rather not see old event items get reintroduced.
The concept of rewarding players that have been here since month 1 seems to be a difficult one in this game; however those players that have them have earned them. They should be allowed to keep that distinction.
I'd leave the loot system the way it is on the epics and the quests, lore, etc. As far as the timers go, they should stay as they are, because so many people wanted things to be easy to get and the epics all got made easier. Plus it's a delicate balance with Order shard, with the difficulty at times of getting together enough players to make a group.
If you want to introduce new "shards" to trade, let those be quest driven by the NPC, and when you're on the "quest" you get a chance to get the shards drop as loot. I agree that it should also be scaled by the difficulty of the mob to kill. Daknor/SoG are too easy. Anything that can be killed by 2-3 characters, or solo should either have a shard drop in a blue moon, or not at all.
Personally, I'd like to see the drops be very very rare, kind of like SOG before he was babyfied and you could go 2 weeks without getting a single piece drop off him. I wouldn't have the shards be attuned, as there have been enough items changed so that there's no market to buy/sell at higher tiers.
The "random" system has worked for all these years, why is it suddenly not good enough?
Only new items should be introduced, perhaps along the lines of weapon tech kits for each of the elemental attack types, instead of just frozen. (Although I'd suggest crystals instead of kits). Nothing more frustrating than working that hard to get an item and then having it be so restricted in it's use. I dislike the idea of adding more epic spells if they're just going to be on linked timers. Seems like defeating the purpose of getting another attack, because either it won't be used or it'll be sidelined in favor of the next, better epic spell/ability.
Put something in for crafters--and then let there be commerce so that the craft happy can have a chance to purchase said item from another player if they don't want to fight for it themselves. This would create some level of interaction between hunters and crafters and promote sales.
By leaving the old epics as they are, that provides MORE content for newer player, not changing existing content. This way they can participate in both.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Ok now that I've read others it helps me solidfy mine.
Since most are overwhelmingly positive in putting such a system in I won't fight against that. I'll just put in my 2 cents as to the specifics.
As one of those "old timers" who still never had any of these "lost recipies" so to speak, I say put in the old stuff AND put in new stuff. Don't get "lazy" and just put old, now unobtainable, things on there but keep it updated and keep it fresh by putting new items and such on there periodically as well. I do feel such things deserve to return to the game because I'm not someone who, in any game, feels content should be barred from people just because they weren't around when it was new or even hard. *shrugs* That's me, and I feel that way in all games.
But I also know that devs have stated before that some of those old receipies and such were "OP" basically (overpowered, not original poster...lol) with how the world works now and that they weren't necessarily still meant to be in game. So I acknowledge that if some of the OP items/reciepies returned they may very well be nerfed/brought in line with the state of game mechanics today. Perhaps knowing such those who are "for" it would now be against it - but I htink that's important to clarify. If "old" things are reintroduced - would they be retuned/changed?? If the answer is "yes" then that may change player feedback.
I agree with the idea that certain epic mobs should be dropping certain "types" of soul shards. I agree that if you make all t6 epic named mobs drop the same soul shard then you're just going to have epic farming of the few easiest named and epic ignoring of the rest. Yes, this is due to "player choice" but its one of those "crappy choices you feel punished for choosing elsewhise" and not a "valid choice" so to speak. So I totally understand and am behind the idea of Reklor or Valkor dropping ABC soul shard, whereas SOG drops XYZ soul shard. The things you can buy with one are different than what you can buy with the other. This keeps people farming a vareity of mobs and not just 1 or 2 because they are easier/faster to farm for the effort.
I also totally agree with the idea that you shouldn't be able to farm Teir 1 named mobs for Teir 6 items. However its easiest to work that given the engine I'm leaving to the devs. Wether that means that "if you don't get exp you don't get a soul shard" or "Tier 1 Soul Shards only trade for Tier 1 items" and they have different designations/names. Whatever. I don't know which system is possible given our engine but I do know (and I rather think the devs know this too lol) that if you make it possible for Tier 1 and 2 named rares to drop the same soul shards as Tier 6 you won't have people hunting Tier 6. Even if its a 50% chance vs. Tier 6 drop, they'll still prefer to mow through hundreds of Tier I named mobs over dozens of Teir 6 mobs simply due to time investment/effort. So IF lower tier named mobs drop soul shards, at whatever percentage, I hope the system is in place that thus rewards only equal level items.
But to me, this is an "end game" system - this could be meant only for Tier 6 type content (even if its a Tier III spell it could be considered only a reward worthy for someone at end game). If this is meant to be a Tier 6 system exclusively then just don't put soul shards on anything outside of Teir 6 named mobs. Simple solution! :)
And lastly, I feel that soul shards should drop according to the number of people in the group. I really, really, really hate the current Istarian system of allowing one person to get rewarded with a piece of something epic regardless of how many people helped to take a mob down. This leads to infighting, drama, bad feelings, isolationism and other negative things and leads to NOTHING positive at all (IMO). Its one of hte reasons I don't even bother myself, and why I don't bother to level up to 100 to take part. Why bother going beyond once if I know I am not garenteed to win anything for months and months of effort? I go once to have the experience, to go "ok I saw that fight". Need to have reason to go again, and for many of us, a 10% chance to get 1 out of 10 pieces of something we'd like just ain't it.
So I argue that for Tier 6 epic mobs they need to drop enough soul shards for everyone who put forth the effort to meet up and defeat said mob. One piece, for a random roll, assuming noone ninja loots or makes a group with the statement "I'm putting this together for me so whatever drops is mine" is just NOT a way to keep players happy.
For the love of Drulkar, put in enough soul shards so everyone gets 1!! I don't know how the engine would handle this - if it can't tell how many are in a group and just "insert X number of soul shards into loot 100% of the time", then perhaps the suggestion of a quest turn-in for killing the mob rewards your X soul shards. That way everyone knows they need to grab the quest for XYZ mob (from same NPC vendor) in order to garentee they get their share of the soul shards.
HOwever the engine needs to do it, I think it needs to be 100% reward for each person. I would rather it require 150 soulshards at a garentee that the fight will reward 1 soul shard, than it requre 15 soul shards but you either never know if you will even loot a single soul shard or you never know if you loot one or two who will win the roll. The 150 or 200 soul shards for an item is not even remotely as frustrating as the random/rng dependency. If someone KNOWS that eventually, no matter what their "luck" that night is, they WILL get enough soul shards for an item its MUCH easier to go through it all and then get nothing over and over again.
Take out the RNG! Period!
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
My vote = NO, NO, and NO
All I see this being is a "BIG FAT EASY" button being installed
for the Whiney New players that missed out.
As someone else said here - RARE means it is hard to get.
Andaras
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andaras
My vote = NO, NO, and NO
All I see this being is a "BIG FAT EASY" button being installed
for the Whiney New players that missed out.
As someone else said here - RARE means it is hard to get.
Andaras
I personally see this as a "Big fat makes-it-possible" button being installed.
Rare shouldn't mean impossible to get. Not for items that still hold combative edges over currently obtainable ones, anyway, which is what I think the Devs are hoping to change with this on top of help push the economy in the right direction, which I personally see this actually beginning to do though it's still not a true money sink.
Amon - Perhaps for tokens that would be used to obtain some of the old stuff such as the DCOM, Staves of Ribeth, Boar hide mask, etc. (assuming you would make tokens for such items) you could make them only obtainable during a part of yearly events. This way one can't just farm tokens for these old items all the time and leave them to still be a somewhat special thing while remaining obtainable for newer players. Of course, this means continuing to run a specific yearly event.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andaras
RARE means it is hard to get.
Andaras
I think there is a difference here between what is 'rare' and what is 'unobtainable'.
If [when] these changes go ahead then they would need to be 'rare', similar to what I have previously suggested. If it takes 1+ months to get enough shards to trade for a single T6 Epic Item then that seems acceptable. Please note that 1+ months time would have to be for an average player's time in game as opposed to someone that is logged in 24/7 (otherwise it won't scale properly).
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hallucin8
I would also suggest (and this may already be likely) that these new soul frags be tiered. This is kind of opposite to what Chasing said, but I think addresses the issue he raised. So for example a T1 soul frag may have a value of 5c, and a corresponding T1 “item” from the new vendor might be worth 100c as a starting value, while the better T1 gear might be worth up to 500c. Then a T2 soul frag might be worth 20c and a T2 item would be 1s+. Basically, you can use a T6 soul frag to purchase the lower tiered gear and vice versa. The number of soul frags at each tier should also increase for items of equal level. So using the numbers I just used, it would take 25 soul frags for a T1 item using T1 frags, up to say 100 frags at T5 for a T5 item. Since the frags have values, it also means that T1 frags can be used to purchase T2 gear, albeit you would need a lot more, but moving up tiers would not make the T1 frags useless. If they have values far enough apart, there is no way you could possibly use enough T1 soul frags to buy a T6 item realistically and this would also appease any problems with lower lvl mobs being farmed.
Yep I understand the reason for having a system that works this way as a concept, but consider it the other way round. 1x T6 Soul shard would be exponentially worth more when purchasing a T1 item which to me is a bit defeatest as ppl will just hunt T5/T6 to purchase/trade for the lower tier items.
However, I do recognise that there needs to be some way of trading across into the next tier. IE player hits lvl 20 and they have some t1 soul shards left, but they want to put them towards a t2 item now.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Frith-Rae
For the love of Drulkar, put in enough soul shards so everyone gets 1!! ...
HOwever the engine needs to do it, I think it needs to be 100% reward for each person. I would rather it require 150 soulshards at a garentee that the fight will reward 1 soul shard, than it requre 15 soul shards but you either never know if you will even loot a single soul shard or you never know if you loot one or two who will win the roll.
I absolutely agree with this. I've participated in a couple of "epic" hunts, and to be honest I got *nothing* out of it other than "woo, I was there!" I have absolutely zero motivation to do epic hunts unless I'm invited; I don't have a big enough guild to do any kind of organisation of "we'll all go hunt Fafnir for parts" and I don't expect any of the other guilds to group up and humour my "I'd like a shiny nifty something-or-other...." either.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Creme
.
The "random" system has worked for all these years, why is it suddenly not good enough?
I agree- if we leave SoG, Valkor and Reklar (and Queen too, I assume)
out of the new system, like most of us wish.
But who is left then?
Named mobs-who can be soloed by most of us within our level range.
No group needed for that *imagines a group of 10 to kill poor chompa- or 10 to kill Thistleface^^).
Or only a very small group (of 2).
I see no prob in a random in such a small group-
I would not random at all but go for the next named.
We had inflation of new items before- I personally do not want to see that again.
I understand the soulshards as an incentive to go for the named mobs
again (which most of us do not do- why should we?), and get a nice reward for that over the time. If its something old, or something new or simply fluff-
I do not really care.
As said- but epic bosses should stay the way they are.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Yes I am all for it.
1.) On Epic Bosses this shards should drop just as often as there respective Epic loot drops now though. So as to not lower the reward for fighting this Epic Bosses.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Yes, I am definitely for this idea.
Ambrosia - I would rather see the spirit oil formula brought back, as ambrosia is a crafted item and I would not like to see crafters displaced.
Rare weapons already drop off Epic mobs. Not sure there is a need to replace that system. Maybe have the epics keep the loot they already have and add the shards to them as a bonus.
Old dragon -and biped- techniques - spirit webbing and such too please.
New spells and techniques - YES ! Would it be possible to add old spells as well? x-generate health, Thundercloud, come to mind.
Old event items - YES ! Silver whistle and reed formulas, swarm tyrant shield, jewelry from the sand scarab bits, regal weapons parts and formulas.
I agree with Chasing that all these things should be rare and somewhat difficult to obtain.
Thanks Amon, once again you have surprised and delighted me!
Thaalia of Order
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Steering this back on topic. This thread is for discussing the OP, not systems for looting or group rewards or anything of that sort.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Well the more I read of this thread, the more I feel that "rare collectibles" is a paradox in this game. Most players want everything, even if it's something they can't use, just to "collect". I'm not saying this is a good or a bad thing, just a fact. If they can't obtain it within their means, they will complain about difficulty/drop rate until the mobs are nerfed and the drop rates increased.
So, unless you want to make the items be something that pretty much any player can get (which is kind of the opposite of RARE), you'll wind up having to keep tweaking and adjusting until *most* players are happy.
That being the case, let these be "collectible" type things, maybe new banners, shoulder buddies, special patterned dye kits. Things that players can display visually, but that don't have bonuses to combat, stats, etc.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Creme
If they can't obtain it within their means, they will complain about difficulty/drop rate until the mobs are nerfed and the drop rates increased.
What about items that just can't be obtained at all?
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrion
What about items that just can't be obtained at all?
Well, I doubt the ceiling would be akin to that of level 101. But perhaps the system would be such that it would take more than a month to get a single "simpler" item, and a year to get an item that requires triple the tokens/shards..and if you instead chose to use the tokens/shards getting 3 different items in that "year" then the 4th item would be out of reach. And perhaps rather than weakening the mobs or changing the drop rates, the system could be adjusted upwards or downwards by the number of shards required to purchase an item.
I've played other games where the drop rate on an item was so low, that only 6 or so characters out of 5k+ players had the item (in 4 years of playing).
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
One other thing I'd like to see on the list, if possible. I know, it was originally not intended to be made, but the characters of the day ended up doing it. It's been one of those extreme rarities since the triple-tech allowance has been removed from game.
Triple Teched Primal Vengeance chest scales.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Oh, and another one. This one could be an alchemist form or a scholar form. Something to change Unstable Essence of Blight into Essence of Blight.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Thank you all for your enthusiastic feedback. We'll now take it and rework the plan using some of what has been posted.
Think its pretty clear that Valkor, SoG, and Reklar items won't be included in this. For the record, neither will Boar's Hide or DCOM.
Items that have no functional use, that were entirely for events, such as the Silver Whistle, are truly gone and will not be returning. Other event items may or may not be returned. Still up in the air on this one.
For the rest, at this time, we cannot say except that we will be evaluating each of them to determine if they should be included. Ultimately, the goal is to ensure that Named Mobs (not just the Epics) have a reason to be hunted. And providing rare items that cannot be obtained through any other method is a way to accomplish this. Old, rare items are one type of thing to add, new items that mirror some of the functionality of old items are another. Totally new items are also possible as mentioned in the OP. New art or appearances are not, at this time, available.
Please feel free to continue discussing this topic.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Have the items cost multiple shards please, but with a 100% drop rate, id happily go hunting for rare mobs if it's like that, but i hate loathe and detest it when there is only a certain type of rare mob (in this case named) that only have a rare chance to drop the item required, especially when there's multiple people hunting these. Five people searching for one named mob in an area with even a 10% shard drop rate. if extremely unlucky on an average drop rate that could be up to 46 kills if the others were extremely lucky and all got the shard they wanted on their first kill. and that's for 1 shard, and probably close to a full day of dedicated hunting in that -hopefully unlikely- scenario.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
An assortment of shoulder pets with a capacity bonus
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
YEAA Shoulder pets! *claws up!*
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jorev1
An assortment of shoulder pets with a capacity bonus
yus!!! shoulder pets!!!!
also, I found this thread somewhat misleading when I looked at the title and read its content, they aren't actually "collectibles", they're usefull items (mostly), now emblems and shoulder pets, those are collectibles in my eyes
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
overall the idea is good, except i say no to the rare weapons on vendors, if a palyer can just BUY the weapon or parts from a vender then there is really no point in bothering to hunt the epic mob that normally drops the item/parts anymore in my opinion.
Second question about ambrosia if it can still be made will the formulas for the players that still HAVE them be able to make and sell them again
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
Quote:
Originally Posted by
starlight
overall the idea is good, except i say no to the rare weapons on vendors, if a palyer can just BUY the weapon or parts from a vender then there is really no point in bothering to hunt the epic mob that normally drops the item/parts anymore in my opinion.
I *think* from what I understand from what I've read, it isn't that they'll be able to buy with coin weapons/parts - but that they would have to still hunt the Mob to get the special currency (soul shards, whatever) that would then be able to trade in the special currency (from hunting XYZ mob, jus tlike now) for the parts/weapon/recipie they still need.
So say instead of needing to kill Mob BoB for 6 unique shield parts, where part 1 drops two months in a row and you never end up getting part 5 or something like that. You'd still kill Mob BOB but he would drop "soul shards" and each of those six shield parts are on the vendor for say 6 soul shards each (just random number for example). So that way you would KNOW that eventually you'd have enough shards to buy all six pieces and put your weapon together. Vs. Never knowing if you would get the right part each time you killed the boss.
If that explanation made sense. I think that's how they are talking about it working 'off a vendor'. And NOT just silver/gold outright buying it.
-
Re: Talk to the Team: Rare Collectibles
This is an interesting and exciting proposal for me. It's nice to be rewarded for taking on the harder monsters. I agree, however, that the shards have to be tradable. Some of us do hunt in groups, as we are supposed to, and trading is the best way to ensure the loot is distributed equitably among trustworthy friends, and for those who have all that they want for a given tier, they can sell theirs for profit, which is good, too.