-
Ancient Rite of Passage
We just completed the review of the Ancient Rite of Passage (this is a walkthrough conducted by the primary designer for a review group of developers here). We will be releasing more information about this going forward, but I wanted to put out the requirements so you can begin discussing them.
Level 90 in either craft or adventure
100 days since creation
Adult Rite of Passage complete
We are all excited by what we've discussed today, and after we've done our next review we'll let you know more of the details.
David Bowman
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
100 days? Aint that a tad low? [:(]
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Aye I was hoping for a bit more than 100 days.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Thanks for the post david,
But I think the dragon players all agree that 100 days is very low. Over the past year I have talk to many dragons and all those thatI talked to have all thought the ARop proper time frame to be over 200 days. me my self I belive the dragons acount needs to be 1 year old. after allwe are to be considered ancient players....heck I could go for 2 years.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Indeed, I think most dragon players would agree that the RL requirement should be 365days.
Otherwise we are going to see dragons powerleveled to ancient in 3 months, which, will be rather dissapointing.
The level requirement looks pretty good though and its good to hear that the AROP is progressing well.
Any hoard requirement?
Thanks for the update, as I forgot to mention that in my previous post.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
The level req is good, if suprisingly high considering what you had set for adult RoP. Hundred days since creation on the other hand is too low. Double that would be far more preferable, if not full year (most preferabe). It might be hard to swallow to those that became adults two days after creation but it is not something that should be considered.
What's with the level requirement of 90 craft or adventure? Does that imply that the quest will branch, where one brach is for adventure skills exclusively, and the other branch for craft skills exclusively?
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
In my opinion it should require both crafting/adventure at 90, following the same suit as the RoP.
Regardless, 365days should definitely be the time requirement.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Need lvl 90 to start it... though you probably need 90/90 to finish it. My guess atleast.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
100 days is too little time in my opinion.
How long till the next review? (sorry but someone had to ask[8-|])
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
*sighs* I thought being Ancient was going to be something that all Dragons breathed heavy after, and wich would demand alot of the Dragon...guess i was wrong.. [:'(]
Imho the reqs are a straight out Joke....
lvl 90 EITHER craft or adv?? Whats that? yeah sure, but then you need 100 in the other school....(in my book at least)
100 days since creation? whats that? I made 2 Dragon alts when i started, both are over 100 days....
One thing though...i hope the quest itself is hard as **** and please make it worth the while specially for the oldies that have worked their tails off for this.
-Ilinga
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Hopefully when David comes back to the thread they will make the requirements a bit steeper after seeing how people feel about it.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bowman
Level 90 in either craft or adventure
100 days since creation
Adult Rite of Passage complete
We are all excited by what we've discussed today, and after we've done our next review we'll let you know more of the details.
David Bowman
How much IG playing time? There are many time related replies on other posts (that you have read, remember your words)to ensure players are not powered through adults and to Ancient. Dedication to your dragon character has to be a requirement.
100 days since creation is too low.
And, please, for the sake of an Ancient dragon's self respect, make it a dragon only series of quests. Again, there are many posts talking of bipeds powering hatchlings to adult requirements and through the "Become a True Helian/Lunus" series of quests. Certainly, a TRUE Helian or Lunus (and the dragon race)won't need the overpowering might of bipeds for their own advancement. After all, dragon aid is hardly needed for biped advancement past a rating of 100.
:: Looks forward to his posts on completing the dragon ability tasks to 100 and Dragon lair plots ::
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
I also agree on the subject that to become ancient dragons need to have acounts at least one year old
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Actually that really does'nt follow the original logic for the Adult RoP.
The STARTING point was 30/30 - but they originally had I guess "hoped" that it would take 50 in one OR the other for the dragon to finish *laughs a hearty one at how that reality turned out*.
But actually you don't need anything even to finish it - you need 35 craft for Lunus, and what..40 craft for Helian to finish it without buffs or craft scales. And just the 30 initial adventure rating doesn't change :).
Personally I'm totally fine with only 90 in ONE - as it DOES Follow the Adult ROP if it splits along the adventure/craft line - as the Adult RoP does the same thing (Or was intended too).
I think a 90 craft for a Lunus seems a bit extreme *shrugs* But then I hate crafting...
However, the 100 days (unless they mean playtime since creation possibly?) does seem a bit light. Considering that yes, it does mean you'll have 3 month + 10 day ancients being PLed.
But why should a Lunus be asked to level to 90 or 100 in craft? Why should a Helian be asked to do the same in Adventure? To *me* anyway, making both schools equivalnt just once again shoots down the idea of "diverging paths".
The Adult ROP has really no "diverging path" to speak of when you talk about rewards, really, except for the pretty breath - otherwise you really don't see much mechanical playing difference for most, choosing one or the other (and many who don't care about RP go Lunus so they don't have to craft the extra levels...)
If they are only requiring 90 in ONE for Ancient, then perhaps they really *ARE* going to diverge the paths this time...
or as another said, you'll get into the quest and realize "oh wait your other half really does have to be that high, it just doesn't have to be that high to start" just like the Adult RoP....
((actually aren't the adult starting requirements 30/20 and 20/30 - just to take the task - just people usually don't start until they are done with the requirements? Bah I can't remember)
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
There seems to be a misconception that just because someone can receive a quest means that they will be able to complete a quest. I've listed the requirements to receive the quest. I believe any Dragon attempting the Ancient Rite of Passage with ONLY the minimum requirements to receive the quest will die. But they will be able to see what they need to be able to overcome the challenge. (Parts of the quest are not accessible by bipeds, so biped assistance will not be available.)
I'm interested in discussion, that is why I posted here. I've heard that 100 days is too few for some of you. Some have even proposed specific numbers. Please share your reasoning behind any proposed time lengths so we can take that into account as we continue to develop the ARoP.
David
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
I have many resaons why i want it to be a year..or more.
1). The elder dragons that have been here since day one have been waiting to become Ancient now for very long. I belive we have stuck it through and waited for over a year now means that other new dragons should also wait like we have.
2.) One year also will show to other player when they see an ancient dragon it will tell other. Hey look at us we are Proud to be a dragon and we are elder players.
3). for RP resaons. the term ancient means Old and wise. anda 3 month old dragon is by no means ancient and wise they are still a young pup.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bowman
There seems to be a misconception that just because someone can receive a quest means that they will be able to complete a quest. I've listed the requirements to receive the quest. I believe any Dragon attempting the Ancient Rite of Passage with ONLY the minimum requirements to receive the quest will die. But they will be able to see what they need to be able to overcome the challenge. (Parts of the quest are not accessible by bipeds, so biped assistance will not be available.)
I'm interested in discussion, that is why I posted here. I've heard that 100 days is too few for some of you. Some have even proposed specific numbers. Please share your reasoning behind any proposed time lengths so we can take that into account as we continue to develop the ARoP.
David
To the bolded, Great to hear! I for one am very pleased to see this.
As to why I feel the requirement should be 365days I agree 100% with what blue said.
1) Those of us who have been here from the beginning have waited over a year for this to come out. We have stuck through thick and thin, even dealing with horrible things such as hoard decay. It would be a slap in the face to these players to see an ancient made by a bored biped or a new player, powered up to get an ancient in under 4 months.
Having to stick with the game as a dragon for 365 days shows dedication. It also is a status symbol that other players can see when they see an ancient dragon, "Wow, that dragon has been here for over a year". The 365 days helps to give the ancient status that elder feel, something for other, younger, dragons to look up to.
2) By lore, ancient dragons are very old, and having 365days as a requirement is a nice mechanical way to represent this.
3) I suggest 365days because 1 year is a nice solid number. So far I havent seen any other dragons stand against this amount, especially those who have been here from the beginning.
4) It is fair to say that after making current dragon players wait a year due to the ARoP's non-existance, future dragons should have to show that same commitment to being a dragon and playing horizons.
Thanks for taking our thoughts into consideration.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bowman
(Parts of the quest are not accessible by bipeds, so biped assistance will not be available.)
I hope many of the adventure parts are. Again, it comes down to dragon lore of a solitary race (and thus less biped dependence). Crafting parts, by definition, have minimal biped assistance (as in using a scaleforge to create the new phylactery).
Quote:
I'm interested in discussion, that is why I posted here. I've heard that 100 days is too few for some of you. Some have even proposed specific numbers. Please share your reasoning behind any proposed time lengths so we can take that into account as we continue to develop the ARoP.
David
Time and knowledge. In fantasy literature a dragon knows alot about itself and the world. There is much to Istaria, like attuning to the pads (which could be a requirement), visiting the towers, and completing most (or all) of the ability tasks (please, not for Gold Rage though until hoard drop is increased).
100 days since creation allows for "sleeper" dragons and abuse by players. A dragon is created, leveled a bit, then sleeps (or is sleeping now waiting for Ancient RoP requirements). Then they awaken, get powered through to adulthood then to level 90.
180 days since creation may hinder the "sleepers" and allow for that "growth" dragons should have as they mature in Istaria. On the player side, it acknowledges the efforts of long term players in staying with Horizons.
I hope the other posters will look for their time related replies in old posts and update/repost them here.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
i would go with the atleast 300+ char creation time due to it being before ROP came out when we had alot of issues in the beginning.. more or less the ones that lived through everything.. good and bad. acual play time should be imo atleast 50 days play time.. would make sense.. considering alot of my in game dragon friends are right around that average...
Hope you guys like that so far [:P]
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Indeed. Having some ingame played time in there would be nice too. If the Creation time was 365days, any dragon player that met the other requirements would certainly have around 50-60 ingame days.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bowman
There seems to be a misconception that just because someone can receive a quest means that they will be able to complete a quest. I've listed the requirements to receive the quest. I believe any Dragon attempting the Ancient Rite of Passage with ONLY the minimum requirements to receive the quest will die. But they will be able to see what they need to be able to overcome the challenge. (Parts of the quest are not accessible by bipeds, so biped assistance will not be available.)
I'm interested in discussion, that is why I posted here. I've heard that 100 days is too few for some of you. Some have even proposed specific numbers. Please share your reasoning behind any proposed time lengths so we can take that into account as we continue to develop the ARoP.
David
Thank you for the reply. I'm happy to hear that those are only the initial requirements. In fact, I look forwards to the Ancient RoP being hard, really hard, fraught with risks that test the dragons' skill, might and knowledge. I'm also happy to hear that some parts are dragon-only. [:)]
The time requirement should be at least 200 days, though preferably a year, because an ancient dragon is an elder dragon. They know the lay of the land, the foes, the tricks and tactics, the lore, and are a repository of knowledge. They are veterans of many battles, and might have seen the fall of the machines that enslaved the satyr, the summoning of the dryads, the creation of the Novo to mend the shattered reality.
When people see an ancient dragon, they would know the dragon has been in the game for a good long time. As we cannot multiclass and work towards acquiring multiple level 100s, adult and ancient are our only pathways to 'prestige'. When people see a biped with AR over 140 they know he/she has a lot of playtime put into that. When people see an ancient dragon, they should also be able to know a lot of playtime has gone into that.
While in three months one can grow up into a respected and powerful dragon, I do not believe such a young one yet has the wisdom to become one of the Elders of Dralk or Chiconis. A year is a good number as it speaks of great dedication to the cause of Lunus or Helian.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
I wanted to add as well that 100days is especially irritating being that many of us waited that long just to be able to do the Adult RoP and there was no timer for that at all, despite everyone being under the impression that there would be.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Ancient dragon's should be earnt and not given, its the final evolution of a dragon, and having it at 100 days since creation is a joke, as alot of people have dragons just sat there with a creation date of 100+ easily (I have 5 alone that just didn't feel right). 100 days is easy and the reward is "hopefully" to high.
If however you set it to 365 or say something like 200 days since creation, this would be better. Better yet would be to insert 3 seperate timers that you must fullfill.. these been..
200days since creations (365 is fine but says 200 for now)
60 days playingtime (ingame time)
100 days since adult Rite of Passage
All of these three together would truely make ancient deserved and something special, instead of just been a guild pet, p/lvled and parked and steam rolled through adult and straight to ARoP.
I know you need to think about casual players, but ancients are well exactly what the word says.. Ancient.. and not made as an after thought.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
The Reqs should be 100 in adv or craft minimum.
365 days since creation minimum.
50 days IN-GAME time, simply because i think this would make it harder for people who just let their dragon sit should have to actually play their dragon and not just have it powerlvled to reach ancient. I myself am only in game time of 40 days or so and i am a 100/75 dragon. If people truly play their dragons all the time this mark is very obtainable and prevents the "sleeper dragons" from becoming ancients too soon.
As for hoard requirement im glad there is none because it is a waste of time.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
The requirements posted by Dave Bowman are much too low. Under those requirements someone could powerlevel a dragon through ROP in a couple weeks. Then, after waiting 100 days, they could powerlevel up to level 90 within another 1-2 weeks simply by group hunting on Elnath (massively fast leveling area). Under the posted requirements, Dragons with as few as 10 game days played could probably become ancient.
100 days isn't really much of a limitation either. Almost everyone who has been in the game 100 days has a dragon alt that is at least that old whether its been played or not. With the requirements posted by AE, we would very soon see a huge flood of ancient dragons. Ancients would not be rare and awe inspiring as they should be. Instead, they would be a dime-a-dozen.
DB also stated that minimum level adults "probably wouldn't survive" ARoP, "because there are areas that are inaccessible to bipeds." This is simply not very realistic. First, Dragons doing ARoP will most likely be in groups with other dragons, so any weaker dragon would be protected by the rest. Second, there really is very little difference in survivability between a level 90 dragon and a level 100 dragon, especially given that AE has failed to add in adventurer ability quests up to level 100. The bottom line is that almost anything a level 100 dragon could survive, a level 90 dragon could also survive. Also, if those 10 levels really make that much of a difference, it wouldn't be that much of a problem for the powerleveled dragon to spend another few days at Elnath packing on more adventurer levels.
ARoP has been something that has been looked forward to by hardcore dragon players sicne the game came out. Those players were tremendously disappointed with the low requirements for ROP. ARoP should be something really special, to reward the hardcore dragon players and to show the kind of power that a dragon can ultimately achieve. Thus the requirements should be correspondingly high:
I recommend the following:
200 days since character creation - One year since creation might seem more reasonable but that might be a bit too discouraging to newer hardcore players. I don't see why a dragon who has 60 days game time but only 250 days since creation should be less qualified for ARoP than a dragon with 365 days since creation, but only 10 days played.
45-50 days in game - If there is going to be a timer, there should also be an in-game timer. This is especially important for weeding out those who just want to powerlevel to ancient, from those who are actually hardcore dragon players. Of course, this won't prevent players from logging in their dragon before going to bed AFK, but combined with other requirement, should help to weed out the true dragon players from the quick powerlevelers.
100 days since completing adult ROP (realtime-not game time) - additional protection to prevent dragon alts who were created long ago but never played from being suddenly powereleved to ancient once ARoP goes live.
Level 100 / 100 - There are quite a few dragons at level 100 / 100 on Chaos shard (probably a couple dozen). With the level cap soon to rise to 120, there is no need to set the level requirement below 90. The most dedicated dragon players should not have too much difficulty reaching this requirement. Alternatively, since many dragons may hate crafting or adventuring perhaps set the requirements as being one class at 100 and the other class at 80. the posted requirement of one class at 90 seems much too low, because players could potentially not bother leveling up the other class at all. HOWEVER: The level requirement might be ok if the ARoP quests require very high crafting ability. That would prevent players with powerleveled adventurer and no crafter levels from becoming ancient. Its a lot harder to powerlevel dragoncrafter levels.
Hoard requirement: 5-10 million - Yes, hoard is a mindless waste of time, but building up hoard is a mark of dedication to the dragon class. Many dragons have been spending months building up hoard in the expectation that some hoard would be required for ARoP. However, at the same time I can see that perhaps AE's choice not to have a hoard requirement is in recognition of the fact that the present hoard system is less than satisfactory and AE is trying to decrease reliance on hoard.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
First of all, I am a biped. I am pleased to see things coming along on the ARoP. I hope that AE listens to some of the great idea's posted here by the people that actually play. I agree that there should be a good bit of this quest that should be biped free. I worked very hard helping my wife and many other dragon's with RoP. The main thing i want to ask is that BiPeds be allowed to be there for Transformation to Anceint. My wife, Eleena the Fiesty (Chaos), is very proud of her dragon. And i am proud of all the hard work she has put into her character. She is the main reason I am so nice to a lot of dragons. With her in the chair behind me playing, I have got to see all the hardships that she has went thru to get where she is.I would hate to think that someone could take a few weeks of powerleveling and go thru ARoP and make all that she has done seem fruitless. I support the 200+ creation timer and the 45 to 50 ingame timer. Although she hates her hoard as much as the next person, andfromourdiscussions, we think it should be factored in. Hoard is a dragon's pride in role play, how can ya have an anceint that doesn't have a multitude of pride. Even though it is boring and tedius, without any real gain, it is part of a dragon's life.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
From adult to ancient in less than a year is bad enough. 100 days is not even the once mentioned requirement for adult which was later dropped.
Most dragons would probably like to be rewarded for their time commitment and sticking with the game. Making the age of char requirement only 100 days is a huge slap in the face. It should be 300+ and there are few dragons that will disagree with that.
An ancient is meant to be old, 100 days is not old.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
I would like to point out thathaving the ingame time requirment is a bad idea. I know many poeple that never log of the game, almost. you can say they leave the game running 24/7. It is very easy thento *cheat* on the in game time by just leaving the game running when you AFK for hours...mabye days on end.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragon
I would like to point out thathaving the ingame time requirment is a bad idea. I know many poeple that never log of the game, almost. you can say they leave the game running 24/7. It is very easy thento *cheat* on the in game time by just leaving the game running when you AFK for hours...mabye days on end.
True... but if those players are doing that, then they aren't using that time to play their biped mains - in either case it at least shows some dedication to dragonhood. An in-game timer may not be perfect, but it actually makes more sense than having a simple timer since creation. I have two dragon alts who both were created over 1 year ago even though combined they have less than 6 hours played. Under the posted requirements for ARoP I could powerlevel them through ROP and be immediately ready for ancient, even though I never previously showed any dedication to those alts. An in-game timer would at least prevent that sort of behavior.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
1 year is probably too much and 200 days could be less of an elitist like requirement and still challenging enough.
The ancient dragon is not an elite dragon that is in his throne because he "grew old".
My grandma isold but still nothing epic nor ancient.
And ancient dragon is a dragon of fame who worked hard becoming a beast of the tales.
For this I'd keep the adv 90 requirement, just to say that you have not to be 100 and be capped with that already. Anyway any stoned dude playing this game can be 100 in days.
Being 90 or 100 in adventure is really nothing to be proud of nowadays nor a sign of commitment (I see dragons in autofollow at mithril golems all day... is it commitment?)
Being 70 in craft is. Demonstrated commitment is the thing the smart powerlevellers cannot fake easily. 70 craft levels are not. Just see how many go Lunus because they want to "just fly" with their dragon alt.
Having 5M hoard too would be a sign of commitment.
Me and LOTS of dragons dug to no end to because it was just sensible that an ancient dragon would require a fabolous hoard.
No hoard requirement and no craft (or anything that lets powerlevellers jump in effortlessy) is just a big slap in our face. A face that after a year is already well purple.
By the way, is the puny level 90 requirement a sign of the overall worth we are getting as ancient?
You know, there are people that did not work for a year to have a nice bigger butt.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
I have to agree with Ragon here on the in-game time, and all of yall on the creation time. Creation time should be a year since ancients are supposed to be...well...ancient. The way the days go in Istaria, I can see how 100 days could be considered a long time, and it is. But it wouldnt be near what Ancient would be. At the very least, I would say 300 days since creation, though I much prefer the year.
For in-game time, I really dont agree with there being one, or at the very least making it low enough that someone with a year of game play could attain it even if they cant be logged in all the time. With the way my work scheduling goes, I just dont have the ability to log in every day. Plus, when I am home I typically have to work on other things than playing on the computer, or while playing on it. Denrath is my only character and I do everything I can to build him up and play when I can. He is 330 days old, but only 24 hours in game. And I refuse to cheat and just let him sit. It isnt in his character to sit there and mindlessly drool on himself, he prefers to get out and kill.
As for the craft requirement I see tossed around, I dont think a craft requirement needs to be set from the start since it is likely we will have to craft things that will require a ton of skill (800 scalecraft or something) to make. Again, those of us who despise crafting are going to be forced into it in the end, so maybe we ought to just leave those who hate crafting with their delusions of not having to for now. *Grins*
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragon
I would like to point out thathaving the ingame time requirment is a bad idea. I know many poeple that never log of the game, almost. you can say they leave the game running 24/7. It is very easy thento *cheat* on the in game time by just leaving the game running when you AFK for hours...mabye days on end.
That is very true Ragon, but something is better than nothing. The time elements are there mainly to show some playing time as a dragon. Something should show an appropriate time as hatchling (generally levels 1 to 30 MINIMUM, preferably 40), a longer time as adult (level 40 to 90 it seems, but 100 is better), and then Ancient.
Can't compare times in these level ranges to the other races (no concept of aging amid them), but certainly can amid the dragons (and dragons of fantasy). Where time as an adult should be at least twice that as time as a hatchling. Let us look at 365 days (RL time) or 52 weeks. Figure 12 hours per week Dragon time, that gives 26 IG hours as a dragon . . . should be a very minimum (I like 40 or more IG hours). There should be something that shows you want to play a dragon, despite the race being incomplete, vs. some simple time element.
Kumu has nice guidelines for time requirements. Those can be met by a player wanting his dragon to become ancient, but could frustrate a player just out to power a toon quickly from hatchling to Ancient to fly and to play with the new abilities then go back to his biped character.
I'm all for game mechanics AE can implement. But ultimately it is up to the players for self control. This means, among other manipulations of game mechanics, of no parking in game while AFK (for long periods of time). Players will do that, however, as something allowing them a gain with minimal effort.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaraiden
Kumu has nice guidelines for time requirements.
Not quite sure what you mean. Kumu hasn't posted any suggested time requirements in this thread.[:O]
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Just hope they listen to us this time. I will be out for a week on vacation after this post. Please AE, make the requirements, especially the creation date, worth something.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireclaw
[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Jaraiden wrote: Kumu has nice guidelines for time requirements.
Not quite sure what you mean. Kumu hasn't posted any suggested time requirements in this thread.[img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-3.gif[/img]
Just need to add numbers to it now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kumu
I don't want to see people as ancients until they earn the right.
Having a guild powerlevel you, or your hoard does not earn you the right. You should have multiple requirements.
A) Time Since Creation.
B) Time In Game.
C) Time since adult.
"I created a dragon at release....but never played him." defeated by B and C.
"I created a dragon 2 months ago and left him logged in while I slept" defeated by A and C.
"I powerlevelled my dragon to adult" is defeated by A and B.
Sure, it doesn't catch everything, but you can easily add - Require all Ability quests completed to a certain level as well as level/hoard requirements....
Either way, I don't want to have to tell an Ancient Dragon "What is good to hoard?" or "What's Shield of Gold Do?"
buried in http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=19310
I recommend the posters in that topic above (and other Ancient RoP topics that David Bowman may have forgotten about) summarize their earlier posts here.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Fireclaw wrote:
I recommend the following:
200 days since character creation - One year since creation might seem more reasonable but that might be a bit too discouraging to newer hardcore players. I don't see why a dragon who has 60 days game time but only 250 days since creation should be less qualified for ARoP than a dragon with 365 days since creation, but only 10 days played.
45-50 days in game - If there is going to be a timer, there should also be an in-game timer. This is especially important for weeding out those who just want to powerlevel to ancient, from those who are actually hardcore dragon players. Of course, this won't prevent players from logging in their dragon before going to bed AFK, but combined with other requirement, should help to weed out the true dragon players from the quick powerlevelers.
100 days since completing adult ROP (realtime-not game time) - additional protection to prevent dragon alts who were created long ago but never played from being suddenly powereleved to ancient once ARoP goes live.
Level 100 / 100 - There are quite a few dragons at level 100 / 100 on Chaos shard (probably a couple dozen). With the level cap soon to rise to 120, there is no need to set the level requirement below 90. The most dedicated dragon players should not have too much difficulty reaching this requirement. Alternatively, since many dragons may hate crafting or adventuring perhaps set the requirements as being one class at 100 and the other class at 80. the posted requirement of one class at 90 seems much too low, because players could potentially not bother leveling up the other class at all. HOWEVER: The level requirement might be ok if the ARoP quests require very high crafting ability. That would prevent players with powerleveled adventurer and no crafter levels from becoming ancient. Its a lot harder to powerlevel dragoncrafter levels.
Hoard requirement: 5-10 million - Yes, hoard is a mindless waste of time, but building up hoard is a mark of dedication to the dragon class. Many dragons have been spending months building up hoard in the expectation that some hoard would be required for ARoP. However, at the same time I can see that perhaps AE's choice not to have a hoard requirement is in recognition of the fact that the present hoard system is less than satisfactory and AE is trying to decrease reliance on hoard.
I agree with this reqs ( even if i need some more time for craft lev [:S] ), but what about setting ingame time to 40 -45 days? [:P] Not all of us are powerplaying [:)]
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
first off i'd like to thank everyone who's posted simply because i have hope that it will persuade the dev team...
i agree 100 % with what jaraiden quoted from kumu...
all 3 timers are necessary, IMO.
i agree with the hope that if the requirement doesn't reflect a need for crafting that the quest itself will, as many have said, as a way to dissuade power levellers.
as for hoard... many have proven that high hoard is not necessarily a sign of dedication to being a dragon, but likely to a biped crafter in their guild.
Kumu wrote:
> Either way, I don't want to have to tell an Ancient Dragon "What is good to hoard?"
> or "What's Shield of Gold Do?"
hear hear.....
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
I think in game time should be your deciding factor, and forget since creation time all together.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
An in game time is definately required. I have an alt that if I PL'ed its ad and craft (not that i ever would) would meet the requirements and I really don't care about the char a great deal.
An in game time requirement of equating to several months would be appropriate. 60-100 days in game I do not think is unreasonable.
As everyone knows I play a Biped but I do think that those dragons who have stuck to their guns (and even those that went and made a biped alt) should be rewarded to the time commitment they put in
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Asomewhat steeper day since creation i feel would be better...somewhere from 175-200 prolly andI do like the idea of a days since completed adult req, 75-100 area.
as stated in other posted some sort of hord req would show the dedication of the player and serve to weed out the 1's who "dont deserve" it..ie powerlv'd toons. 5- 10m would be just fine and acceptable.I dont mind the lv req at 90 in EITHER craft or adv to start...what ya should be to finish is yet to be seen. Given that bipeds wont be able to help in the "crucial" parts means no uber healing to me, which would serve to increase difficulty.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Update from Unity: I talked with prominent dragons...
you know ... after so long time we are all 100/100 now since months. Capped. Paying since months without any novelty or reward in advancement we cannot have.
They are ALL extremely disappointed.
They (and me) all made 1 + 1: if any wussie can be ancient with mild requirements it means we will get nothing of value like it happened for adult RoP already.
All can do it = it sucks in reward.
This equation has already made some more 100/100 guys say me that they will quit since they are losing the only, last, long standing hope of become something worth playing.
Please David don't do this to us. We waited a year. Even payed 2 subscriptions in faithful waiting that we'd finally become "invited" and not "tolerated" (and because of gold rage, nothing else) in grouping because we are worth the effort.
We really deserve something for the huge effort.
If the concept is once again "make it easy for all so we can refrain giving away any worthy power" it's the last straw.
There is nothing else for us after this. If it again comes out mild, average, grey, muddy... better to really deal with it in the only way we can do.
Signed Vahrokh and several other dragons of my shard. Some told me they'll try and post here even if they don't know English.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
We need to discuss another issue that is more important than the ARoP requirements: What do the players want ancients to be like?
By asking the devs to raise requirements for ARoP, we just might be asking them to raise the requirements to become an even bigger hatchling.
I have high expectations of what Ancients should be like, since Adult was a bit of a dissapointment.
Hence I have started this thread so that we can discuss what we would like to see:
http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=33200
From what I understand, some players are either staying or going based on the outcome of ARoP.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
I recall there was a poll over 6 months ago in which the voters decided that the most powerful characters in the game should be ancient dragons.
I too agree with Vahrokh: Many of us long-time dragon players have been playing our dragons now for a year in the hope that AE would finally fulfill the promise and make dragons what they are supposed to be. We were disappointed with adult ROP in that an adult dragon fought with virtually the same capability of the same level hatchling.
We want ancient dragons to be extremely powerful - the light at the end of the tunnel for having to put up with all of a dragon's disadvantages compared to a biped (weak at low levels, no multiclassing, mindless hoarding, etc.)
But the only way for AE to truly make ancients truly powerful is to make it very difficult to become ancient so Istaria is not flooded with hundreds of ancients. To do this the requirements to begin and complete ARoP must be high. I very much fear that the extremely tame requirements posted for ARoP will mean that the reward for completing it will be a colossal letdown, like with ROP. Essentially Ancient dragons will be just a bigger hatchling.
______
On another note: I am in favor of having a minimum crafter level rather than just having high craft skill requirements on ARoP quests. The problem is that with T4 and T5 techs out now, even a fairly low level dragon can probably get very very high craft statistics by obtaining or borrowing the proper set of skill boosting scales and using playerbuilt craft machines that give skill bonuses. Its fine for ARoP quests to have very high skill requirements, but I think there should also be a minimum crafter level requirement to even begin.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Oh, so there is a real-life time since creation requirement in place - maybe my PM had something to do with that? I've kind of worn myself out with unloading my mental burden intomy PM to Amon regarding the ARoP so I really don't feel like transferring my views to here.
Let me say outright and firstly; I am a casual gamer - or rather was until only a couple of months ago when I started to 'regularly', for lack of better phrasing, to play HZ again - who has been around since the first day of the UK launch. I had only very limited play-time, something like only a couple of hoursnow and then on my hands plus I went into hibernationfor near half a year due to problems. Due to constanthindrance from bugs and other problems I have only just ascended to Adult status around a month ago.
I feel I am a good example of what one can manage with only a scarce amount of game-time i.e. a casual gamer and with that I reveal that I have only managed to scrape up 64 adventuring levels, 61 crafting levels and 530,000 Hoard Value, and let me remind you I have been playing HZ since launch... Donot think I am telling porkies.
Even the level 90/90 requirements posted here had me wincing, and when I see pleas here for the requirements to be set even higher I can't help but find myself seething. This was actually the main topic that I was addressing in my PM to Amon, what about casual gamers who if they probably looked upon this would be spitting acid?
If I had my own way I'd simply have a one year - or even higher - time since creation as the requirement - 3 months is far too low, why the dragon in my eyes wouldn't have the mental age of a whelp. Some say that there should be 'in-game' time included in the requirement too but I feel the one year real-life time would suffice enough, I mean there really isn't that many of the 'first day of launch' players sticking around anymore is there?
Sure, one could simply wait with a hatchling dragon until it would be old enough but really... would someone have a dragon sit in a state of inactiveness for one whole year as well as paying the subscription to do nothing just so they can have a character in which they'll 'really' start playing the game with after all that time? Somehow, I sincerely doubt it...
A very severe real-life time requirement would insure that ancient dragons will be a rarity, since you'd have to be pretty darn patient to wait one year for it, no matter whether the majority of the time you spend is in-game or not.
Think of the casual gamers, I severely doubt they'd be happy to see a 100/100/?14 million Hoard Value as well as a real-life time since creation requirement staring them in the face effectively screening them from their one goal and new source of joy or else there's no longer any point in playing. I, and others with a mere puddle of game-time - uch, my imagery sucks today... - are paying just as much as those of you or the 24/7 computer geeks that havea reservoir fullof the stuff... that easily attained 100/100 and goodness knows what hoard value some of you might've accumuluted long ago with the time you've got compared to mine or some other with a similar time allotment.
I want to be an ancient too, I ******** well have the age of one so why should I be barred from becoming an ancient, I no longer want to suffer from stunted growth like that of the time I had to wait to become adult. I say drop the level requirements and kick the real-life time requirement right up. The element of challengeand difficulty should be allocated toduring the questing process itself.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
OK David
first you should discuss how many ancients you want to have on 1 server
if you want 60-80% of the dragons to become ancient then your requirements seem to be ok
but if you want to see ancients as very rare creatures with special power then you should decide requirements only 5-10% of the dragons can fullfill
ok ingame time can be cheated by beeing afk every night.
I would add some other requirements:
1) completed all adventure/craft dragon tasks till Quest Xy (insert lunus/helian part)
2) hoard 30.000.000 (but the problem is that some dragons used the xxgen and the mithril scale exploit)
3) lvl 100/100 to start the ARoP (or if you raise the dragon softcap earlier then raise it to 110/100 for lunus and 100/110 for helian)
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atolmyth
Oh, so there is a real-life time since creation requirement in place - maybe my PM had something to do with that? I've kind of worn myself out with unloading my mental burden intomy PM to Amon regarding the ARoP so I really don't feel like transferring my views to here.
Let me say outright and firstly; I am a casual gamer - or rather was until only a couple of months ago when I started to 'regularly', for lack of better phrasing, to play HZ again - who has been around since the first day of the UK launch. I had only very limited play-time, something like only a couple of hoursnow and then on my hands plus I went into hibernationfor near half a year due to problems. Due to constanthindrance from bugs and other problems I have only just ascended to Adult status around a month ago.
I feel I am a good example of what one can manage with only a scarce amount of game-time i.e. a casual gamer and with that I reveal that I have only managed to scrape up 64 adventuring levels, 61 crafting levels and 530,000 Hoard Value, and let me remind you I have been playing HZ since launch... Donot think I am telling porkies.
Even the level 90/90 requirements posted here had me wincing, and when I see pleas here for the requirements to be set even higher I can't help but find myself seething. This was actually the main topic that I was addressing in my PM to Amon, what about casual gamers who if they probably looked upon this would be spitting acid?
If I had my own way I'd simply have a one year - or even higher - time since creation as the requirement - 3 months is far too low, why the dragon in my eyes wouldn't have the mental age of a whelp. Some say that there should be 'in-game' time included in the requirement too but I feel the one year real-life time would suffice enough, I mean there really isn't that many of the 'first day of launch' players sticking around anymore is there?
Sure, one could simply wait with a hatchling dragon until it would be old enough but really... would someone have a dragon sit in a state of inactiveness for one whole year as well as paying the subscription to do nothing just so they can have a character in which they'll 'really' start playing the game with after all that time? Somehow, I sincerely doubt it...
A very severe real-life time requirement would insure that ancient dragons will be a rarity, since you'd have to be pretty darn patient to wait one year for it, no matter whether the majority of the time you spend is in-game or not.
Think of the casual gamers, I severely doubt they'd be happy to see a 100/100/?14 million Hoard Value as well as a real-life time since creation requirement staring them in the face effectively screening them from their one goal and new source of joy or else there's no longer any point in playing. I, and others with a mere puddle of game-time - uch, my imagery sucks today... - are paying just as much as those of you or the 24/7 computer geeks that havea reservoir fullof the stuff... that easily attained 100/100 and goodness knows what hoard value some of you might've accumuluted long ago with the time you've got compared to mine or some other with a similar time allotment.
I want to be an ancient too, I ******** well have the age of one so why should I be barred from becoming an ancient, I no longer want to suffer from stunted growth like that of the time I had to wait to become adult. I say drop the level requirements and kick the real-life time requirement right up. The element of challengeand difficulty should be allocated toduring the questing process itself.
I disagree. Ancient dragon is the final and most powerful stage of dragonhood. Ideally, a level 100 ancient dragon should be as strong as, or possibly even stronger than a biped character with multiple level 100s.
As such, Ancient dragons should not really be intended for the casual gamer just as bipeds with multiple 100s are not casual gamers. Rather ancient dragons should be something dedicated hardcore dragon players can aspire to as the ultimate symbol of dragon power. To have relaxed standards for ancient dragonhood would mean that very quickly well over half of the dragons you see online would be an ancient, which is NOT the way it should be. ROP is for the casual dragon gamers, while ARoP should be reserved for the dedicated dragon gamers. Of course, nothing's to stop a casual player from eventually meeting the requirements for ancienthood - but to do so casually without help should be expected to take a very long time (possibly another year).
Ancients should be rare and powerful - NOT common and mundane. Having ancienthood hard to attain means that AE would be justified in giving ancient dragons the power they should have. Something AE could not do if everyone was an ancient.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
With the present requirement I suspect the ancient reward will suck.
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
all i can say is that if feels like i've played more then 54 days of in game time.. playing almost 13-18 hours of HZ a day.. to me doesn't feel like it.. but if the requirement is higher then 60 in game days played.. you'd prolly only see 1 dragon under that category[:$]
(just an assumption.... maybe 2 or 3)
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
There are several I know with 100+ in game time.
There would be many with less than that as well
A middle ground would be nice
-
Re: Ancient Rite of Passage
Just to demonstrate how dragons as are now are considered by other players, look at the following.
You see a guy asking for someone topowerlevel him to 60 (he cannot level alone any more - level 1 rating 100).
He asks for someone level 100 to powerlevel and will pay 1G.
Just to see the reaction when I "infer" that I am such a level 100.
Read his answer.
What he saysit is a dragon in a nutshell.
All know it's like that. And now we could risk staying like we are. That is not worth $4 of subscription (imho) since all I can do is ... chatting and watching the others do stuff while I regen off my double digits deathpoints gotten where the others breeze thru.
http://www.uploadyourimages.com/img/809935horizons.jpg