Please do not mess with the Cenotaphs. I like that you have to get the formulas from them.
Is this just a money sink issue or some other reason that they are being sold now, instead of earning them and braving the dangers of the Eastern Deadlands?
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You can buy them at the QM but the brave can still get them at the Cenotaphs, what about that idea?
I say stay with cenotaph only if we are to have any say.
I say stay with cenotaph. Hey! why don't we just give all forms to all players, and auto upgrade after so many days played... you don't have to do anything except show up?
Seriously what is the point?
I have never once heard of anyone who doesn't have the master forms now that wants them. It is probably right now the largest time sink in the game to tech the stuff to get it and then get out there and get it. Now you can just buy it and then head to a xpertshop to scribe it. Killing comp hunting and comp sales. Be careful how many time sinks you remove from your game. I really like how hard they are to get, makes having them special.
Just GREAT! :)
Erm... Since I'm a fervent user (read: The Flamestone It's always in my fighting claw) of it I can assure you that the proc was actually firing from both spells and breaths attacks and never from melee/ranged
If you improved the chance to proc only, then sorry and many thanks - the proc rate was a bit on the rare side.
Regarding the Master Forms being sold... well I don't mind it at all, but i would leave the Cenotaphs as well.
I would very much prefer if the formulas were left at the Cenotaphs. Reading their story as a part of lore as well as getting the master formula at the end if you had enough skill felt special and well worth the pain and suffering of getting the tech'ed scales or braving the deadlands. Please leave them at the Cenotaphs.
I feel less and less like the time and effort I put into the game means a thing. Some things done in game give a sense of pride and accomplishment. I should have just waited. Everything I need or ever will need will be available at the corner Istaria Circle K.
There will be no getting the forms from the Cenotaphs according to this.Quote:
the Cenotaph NPCs in the Eastern Deadlands will no longer offer the master resource formulas.
If crafting is optional in this game, then let it be that. Leave the cenotaphs alone please. Those crafters who want the master forms so badly will take the chance to go and get them. Some of us were around when the community busted their hinies to build those things. Seems a shame to waste the hard work, and I agree with previous posts.
I love that it is a challenge to actually have to get something in this game where it isn't just given to you on a platter. Almost every game has those difficult to get items in it, which only those who really want it will work hard to get.
I love the history and game lore you learn from the cenotaphs about some of the plots and schemes the aegis did that went in their favour. To take that lore away makes the aegis look less conniving and capable of intricate thoughts and tactics, certainly where the past leading up to the great battle of tazoon is concerned. It seems that more and more they are looking like boring mindless zombies which are easy push overs, and one would wonder how they were even able to get to be the threat they were to successfully besiege Tazoon, Rachival, Feladan, and Aug. To have a good story, you have to have well thought out conflict, not a zombie apocalypse.
I hated the many deaths that I got from going to the centotaphs. I think this is a great idea cuz now we dont have to have umpteen deaths from the centotaphs. This is just my opinion, not right nor wrong.
I'd be ok with having Frig selling the master resource forms (For a very high price) and also have the cenotaphs giving out the forms like they have been doing.
I see no reason not to make the Master forms available for sale, provided the Cenotaphs provide something else to make them worth visiting. However, I see no reason why somebody who has ground their craft levels to the point of being able to use Master forms would be required to go into the Eastern Deadlands in order to complete their classes. Adventurers don't have to craft T6 weapons to get their level 100 abilities.
I remember crafting master level things to earn tokens to buy formulas from Frig Tallowar. If the basic forms must be bought, can folks still earn tokens by making things or are they stuck trying to get someone else to supply that much material (so that they can get a formula to make intermediate materials, to earn more tokens to buy the final product formulas)? Or am I just out of touch with how formulas are obtained from Frig these days?
Frig sells an array of Formulas for his own coin - and rank tokens are each worth 4 of his coin. Frig also has quests for level 100 crafters, these to earn a rank token per quest, his quests are craft quests. Near Frig at the Imperial outpost is NPC Burris. Burris offers quests to Level 100 Adventurers. Burris quests reward 1 rank token for Trophies on his quest list. In addition some of the quests from the Lieutenant (or is it Leftenant?) Carmichael at Delgarath reward rank token(s).
Hope this info is of some use in this discussion.
As for the Master Formulae from the Cenotaphs, there is currently a bit of game imbalance. Dragons having craft skill appropriate to each of the Cenotaph Master Forms can obtain the according Master Form while in flight - and thus do not face the possibility of attack from the Cenotaph Guardians (a privilege not accorded to bipeds seeking to obtain the Master Forms from the Cenotaphs).
My vote would be to retain the Cenotaphs and the Master Forms as presently available from them - for the sake of the Lore and the effort to build the Cenotaphs and for the challenge of the adventurer - and also add these Master Forms to Frig's list so that crafters who do not choose to be high level (or Multi-classed) Adventurers can obtain these forms on the basis of high achievement of craft leveling.
Knossos
Oh OK, let the bipeds buy the forms as it seems no biped has the master ability now...no wait they are the only race that has the ability to get 2:1 on T6 with relative ease.
I say open up the whole can o worms for master forms. If they are purchasable then make them also usable by dragons. Not just the 5:1 and now the token 3:1 (2:1 with crystals and biped buffs).
This would only be fair dealings for all races... let everyone get the forms for no danger but let ALL races use them to their fullest. Other than that leave the game as it is.
Wonders why we all worked so hard to dig the diamond cenotaph lair?
Is this thread really going to descend into Dragon Vs Biped? Please, please, please don't do that. This is far more to do with allowing crafters the ability to finish out their skills without needing to be accomplished adventurers, not about screwing over dragons. This happens every time.
And also don't get high and mighty over past constructions or events barring the enjoyment of newer players. I notice that there is no Novo, or anything pertaining to that event, around. ((Barring Novians, which is a mechanic)) Nothing commemorating the XP I ground into T5 before Mithril was in game. There are only a few artifacts still floating around from before, and that is how it should be. Denying progress in the name of nostalgia or self righteousness is wrong hearted.
Actually, this may have come out of the wood cenotaph NPC (and maybe all of them, I didn't check) failing to spawn for over a month now.
I could second this, tho i'd rather they just left them alone, but if it meets a happy medium for everyone, I can go for that.
However, for some to simplify the importance of the past eight years of player contributions, which have shaped this game's history, lore, and world, so that it may be cast aside when they personally believe it is obsolete is exceedingly arrogant, self-centered, and dismissive of the precious few things this game still has around from an eight year long history.
I wonder, doubtful as this is, if the devs would ever run such a world shaping event again like those. Could be alot of fun, that. I don't know why they couldn't work in the revamp of the tiered areas to be an event like that, but its a topic for its own thread.
How about adding the uber weapons, scales, and other equipment to that npc as well? I thing the demon claw might be desired by a few... Or how about we remove the attuned status on everything, then we (who don't mind dp) can have a means to get cash fetching those items that are hard? to get.
Or much better make getting dead in game something to be feared? As it is now all it costs you is a bit of time, very little silver and sitting in a tavern for a few moments. Other games I have played, we loose ships, equipment quality, and even items in our inventory. Seems dp here is pretty much nothing to be feared but welcomed as a diversion to the grind. Just my two copper worth...done with this thread as already had one post deleted.
I've been following this thread and wanted to take a moment to respond about the Cenotaphs and why they will no longer give out formulas. The honest answer is that when the Master formulas were change in the previous delta set, something in the cenotaphs was broken. We don't know what, and have spent a few weeks trying to determine what, only to conclude that we have no idea why they are not working. In theory they should be, but in practice we can confirm is that they aren't.
So then we started looking at how they fit into the game design over all, and to be quite frank, they don't. As has been mentioned already in this thread, the Cenotaphs are for a variety of reasons something which simply doesn't fit with the game as we have been designing it. We are doing our best to make "just" crafting as an option, though not an easy one, and having the three Master formulas simply handed out by NPC's in the middle of a rather intense adventuring area simply doesn't accomplish that. Further, simply giving players formulas with nothing taken in exchange (no coin to have to earn, no tokes to have to gather) also doesn't make sense.
It does, however, make sense to provide these formulas on Frig, as he already has Master formulas of various types.
As for the Cenotaphs themselves.. it should have been noted in the patch notes that the lore the Cenotaphs have wasn't changed. Anyone who makes their way to them and greets them will still get the lore for now, and eventually we'd like to modify them to have lore which fits into the game on a more long term basis. I've updated the patch notes to reflect that. All that was changed is what was broken with them...that they were not giving out the formulas any longer. Now they won't give out the formulas, but this in on purpose and players can obtain them via Frig instead. Since the last patch, no one was able to obtain those Master forms.
We are also looking at if we have caused a cyclical problem where players can't get tokens to buy the formulas they need from Frig because Frig's quests require you to have the basic formulas in order to earn the tokens.
Thank you for providing us the very much needed insight!
Thank you for the clarification Velea. Its nice to know the lore will still be available and the cenotaphs won't be removed anytime soon. Will the lore that is currently on them be included in the planned updated lore or available elsewhere when they are updated?
That I can't answer, Arzel, because it is not something we've even begun to think about.
Dunno about anyone else but getting the master forms was a breeze at lvl 13 even for the woodworking one. No Dps, no parties of high rating armed escorts... Just a level 13 running through ED and using a little common sense and very fast clicking/recalling.
Taking it away from the cenotaphs and adding it to an NPC that requires you to craft T6 materials in order to get the T6 forms forces people to do the only thing they can do: fight the T6 mobs to get trophies so they can get the formulas so they can start making T6 materials to get the rest of the formulas.
I don't view that as particularly easier considering I didn't have to fight any T6 mobs to get the master formulas for refining before..... This would actually be harder. Just saying.
Resources have been modified across the board so that each structure requires only one tier of resource to complete.
Are you saying that there will only be one resource to complete a house? Will any of this affect machines or they staying the same.
Thank you for your time to whomever responds.
Thank you for the clarification Amon.
Thanks for the response but something I've always been curious about trying.... Wouldn't it make more sense to have the higher tiered halls be smaller? Or at least have the option of making them smaller? It would seem efficiency would become a factor as your skill increases and you were able to fit more into less space rather than just making a bigger structure to hold more things. If that makes sense?
And then you factor the quality of the resources and maybe you can make thronwood much thinner than elm for example? Just thinking.. While you're making changes maybe allowing us to choose which format for which tier would be nice. Granted, I wouldn't expect to use less T6 to make a very small guild house than I would a huge one... But there might be some room for options there.
I would like to thank the powers to be to have used a lot of restraint in this discussion for not locking it down! Even though some posts have been deleted, overall it is an open and free discussion on this change. Good on Ya (as they say north of the border) Devs.
All the structures do not appear to be patched out to blight. all the racial buildings are missing and there are only 3 versions of the guildhouse enabled.
and what happens to the novians for someone that's already built a T6 guild hall, and put tons of T5/T6 mats into it? when deconned, are they gonna get back T1-T6 mats? or the T5/T6 mats used to build them?
that would be a sorry case for someone that spent the time and effort to get all the high amounts of T5/T6 as i have done, on 2 T6 guild halls about a week ago.
as far as Frig goes: how about letting them turn in T5 items for tokens, instead of asking for the same tier they are trying to get forms to make things with? this has been an issue for a long time now, not a new one. i'm pretty sure when i got my first master craft forms (not master resource), they came as drops. not buying from frig. i could be wrong since i was many yrs ago. or there was a different way of getting tokens
The original structures weren't altered, these are "new" ones. So anyone building an existing structure can continue to build or even decon it. But, you won't be able to choose it again. Its a bit confusing, but we wanted to make sure we didn't impact anyone who already had one built or was in the process of building one.
There is no problem here. As it works currently players can get tokens even if they don't have the basic forms, they just have to rely on other players. You can take the craft quests frig offers without having the required forms, you can get someone else to craft the items needed, give them to you, then you can turn them in and get the tokens.
Another option is that Imperial Rank Tokens can be traded (they are not attuned). Therefore other players can earn the tokens and sell or trade them to those who need them. This works out just fine, and in my opinion does not need to be changed. In fact it should encourage trade on the high end.
So what happens if no one is around or willing to help a player get tokens? For things like sidequests, that's easier to deal with—just ask around every once in a while or, at worse, put the quest on the backburner. It stings a little more when it's something as essential as basic resource formulas.
Encouraging player interaction is great, but other players are not reliable enough (in a very general sense) when it comes to something as necessary to gameplay as these formulas. There needs to be some means for a player to obtain master resource formulas on their own. It can be slower or less efficient than asking other players to help, but it does need to exist.
Revamped Houses and Guild Houses
In that I am unable to afford an additional Plotholder Subscription, I am unable to obtain answers to a the following questions by simply visiting the Blight Shard:
1. The new Small Medium and Large Houses are stated to have the same stacks/bulk capacities as we currently have with the T2 T3 and T4 Human Houses. The current T2, T3 and T4 Human Houses have respective footprints of 14m x 21m, 19m x32m and 34m x 42m.
What are the footprint measurements of the new Small, Medium and Large Houses?
2. The current Guild Houses:
T1 Human holds 60 stacks / 7,200 bulk with footprint of 16m x 16m,
T2 Human holds 120 stacks / 14,400 bulk with footprint of 24m x 24m,
Human holds 150 stacks / 18,000 bulk with footprint of 31m x34m,
T3 Human holds 180 stacks / 21,600 bulk with footprint of 50m x 50m,
T4 Human holds 240 stacks / 28,800 bulk with footprint of 50m x 50m
T5 Human holds 300 stacks / 36,000 bulk with footprint of 75m x 75m and
T6 Human holds 360 stacks / 48,000 bulk with footprint of 75m x 75m.
The new Basic, Small, Medium, Large and Grand Guild Houses have respective capacities of:
110 stacks / 13,200 bulk,
150 stacks / 18,000 bulk,
205 stacks / 24,600 bulk,
280 stacks / 33,600 bulk and
380 stacks / 45,600 bulk.
What are the footprint measurements of the new Basic, Small, Medium, Large and Grand Guild Houses?
Hopefully, incorporating the new Guild Houses into future plot designs will not compromise traditional overall plot stack and bulk storage as compared to that available with our current house and Guild House selections, noting that footprint is an ingredient in this comparison of old vs new structure storage.
As a footnote, removal of T1/T2 construction from biped plot storage structures having relatively major stack capacity is somewhat worrisome. Young construction crafters who have saved their coins to purchase entry level plots are unlikely able to afford paying more advanced crafters to build storage structures needed for orderly plot storage stack capacity.
Knossos
/signs Knossos's post
With the enlargement of so many plots across Istaria I am seeing many folks moving to different places. Having an idea of the sizes, capacities and tiers of the new houses/guildhouses would certainly be a big help with them deciding what to build on those new shiny plots ;)
Thaalia of Order
Folks, this hasn't even really made it onto Blight yet, as there was a problem with the current houses.
So before you go "screaming" about the changes (which, I'm sorry, Knossos, but that's what your post had read like before I edited out all that "extra large boldness"), could you take time to actually look at the new structures as they are, please?
As Amon has said, existing structures won't change, nor will ones that are in the process of being built. What we have changed are future structures to give players a greater opportunity, I feel, for building various plots with more variety.
No one can possibly have actually checked this out, and until you do, I really feel you can't say what is or is not going to be needed.
*Serves Velea a cup of Awdz's delicious hot klava along with a slice of warm gingerbread*.
Please forgive the innocent curiosity of the questions about the footprints of the new buildings. As we really know nothing about them yet, it is only human nature for us to be curious and ask questions. Please believe me when I say I don't believe any of us are "screaming about changes" in this thread.
In the past, many of us have asked questions of all of our wonderfully patient developers and opened a dialogue between players and developers that is on a level with no other game. It is something we have come to cherish and love about Istaria.
I truely am sorry you were offended by our simple curoisity.
Thaalia of Order
Thaalia, I wasn't offended by your questions or curiosity, or anyone else's. And before I edited Knossos's post, it was in bold oversized font, which suggests to me that someone is "screaming".
The footprints are the same as they've always been, as the buildings are the same as they've always been. No changes were made to the buildings themselves. It is just that housing is now much better tiered, with a logical progression from T1 through T6 materials being utilized.
I honestly think that once everyone takes time to log in to Blight and either talk to other players there who do have plots, or are able to look at it themselves, most will agree that the revamped houses make sense and all your questions should be answered.... Which is why I asked for your patience while we get the next delta out before speculating.
But? My understanding is t1 and t2 are no longer going to be buildable. And that the footprints will be the what they currently are for t3 to t6 guildhouses?Am not trying to cause trouble here, just trying to understand. Why keep the footprint the same for t3 to t6 with the only difference is that the requirements for resources will be different.
Alternatives to all the ugly, identical t2 guildhouses is awesome. Just hope some of them have comparable storage. Having the 1 design that "holds more" than all the rest, just means many people will build it. Then many plots have the ugly house, and it's depressing going out looking at towns. Having many more "styles" should really help with this. And allowing multiple tiers of the same house (where storage and bulks capacities increase with tier) means no single structure will be favored any longer. This is what dev's are shooting for right?
Get rid of the guildhouses. Give the upper tier houses the same capacity the gh's had.
If it ultimately makes it a bit harder to build the same bulk/capacity, probably still worth it in the neighborhood improvements.
Side note: any chance some lairs might be enlarged?
The goal is to standardize the storage and building requirements of Houses and to bring Guild Houses into line with Houses. So, rather than the requirements and storage varying for Small Houses, now they are all the same. So the choice becomes aesthetic.
The footprints remain exactly the same as the former houses and so does the appearance. No artwork was changed for this.