Lets just take everything, Ranger

• Lightning Arrows now only applies to special attacks (I believe this also applies to ELAR's)
• Temporary Stun, Root, Banish, Bleed, and Mesmerize Resistance now lasts for 6s (up from 3s)
• "Did you forget to tell everyone you also lowered all the stun timers to 4 seconds?" Thunder (has been nerfed for a while) and thundercloud down from 0:14, lightning arrow (now basically useless) all down to 4 seconds while the Immunity goes up to 6 seconds

You are basically taking away everything that makes a ranger worth playing, and his ability to keep his prey at bay so he can survive. Do we have to give up our bows too?

That does not sound good Mali,
and Surth not stunnable anymore? Does not sound good either.

I have the feeling, that lots of measures and changes within the last year,
are ment to bring some uber-uber players down to earth-
and stop them from "soloing" epics. Or force us to make bigger groups..
That might work yes,
and we- no uber ubers- can go for sandstone golems and group to kill KNOXX.
(sry devs- lots of frustration here- but I already talked about that, no need to repeat myself all the time.
Thy for the work for this update-. its appreaciated!! do not get me wrong. )

I mean dragons had a pretty big "nerf" (I still don't consider it that, more a rebalance) before new things were added to them to give them a more varried playstyle (the spells come to mind, those would have never come if goldrage was still a 15sec ability, as well as the rebalancing on some of the other abilities)

Who knows, maybe this holds promise to make Ranger/ELAR something more than stunbots, maybe their other abilities can be reviewed to have some actual bloody use?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by meepsa

I mean dragons had a pretty big "nerf" (I still don't consider it that, more a rebalance) before new things were added to them to give them a more varried playstyle (the spells come to mind, those would have never come if goldrage was still a 15sec ability, as well as the rebalancing on some of the other abilities)

Who knows, maybe this holds promise to make Ranger/ELAR something more than stunbots, maybe their other abilities can be reviewed to have some actual bloody use?

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Not sure what other abilities you think a Ranger might have that's not already in use. The ability to cast cloak of thorns? their ability to cast growth and regrowth? hmmmm, yes, I can see the implications (we could become healers with these and the 2 heals spells we can use (wink) )

Not sure where this stunbot non-sense is coming from, they fixed stunning a long time ago (when claiming they were going to put a stop to mobs stun locking players.. who got the nerf? definitely not the mobs, just the players). The other Ranger abilities are all fine otherwise, and always in use

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malicore

Not sure what other abilities you think a Ranger might have that's not already in use. The ability to cast cloak of thorns? their ability to cast growth and regrowth? hmmmm, yes, I can see the implications (we could become healers with these and the 2 heals spells we can use (wink) )

Not sure where this stunbot non-sense is coming from, they fixed stunning a long time ago (when claiming they were going to put a stop to mobs stun locking players.. who got the nerf? definitely not the mobs, just the players). The other Ranger abilities are all fine otherwise, and always in use

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Thanks for proving my point that scout literally was just a stunbot because the only defining ability about it is lightning arrows. And mobs are hit equally by the immunity? whenever I get stunned I definitely also get the immunity. Thing is, if you could re-apply the stun before it expired and gave the immunity, it'd just refresh itself, this made ranger still quite the stunner with low enough delay.

Sure a lot of its abilities are shared with <insert any bow using class here>, but at the same time every bow class is...well, in the gutter. They could improve the abilities shared between those classes, or maybe give them something more unique when it comes to passives than increased armor or range. Or heck, give it some of it's own abilities rather than something frankensteined from other classes, You're literally saying: "Ranger has nothing that defines it except lightning arrows (shared with ELAR), Cloak of thorns, Growth and Regrowth (all shared by druid)."

Just shouting that a nerf needs to be reverted generally speaking doesn't get you anywhere in any game, looking at opportunities tends to get a better reaction.

your just throwing around the word stunbot without any real concept of what you are talking about. You do know that lightning arrow and dragon crystals, do not mix? If you want to help take down an anchor you need to disable lightning arrow, in order to use a spirit crystal.

This works with any mob that doesn't pertain to nature.. must disable lightning arrow to use xx crystal. I think they well covered their grounds on stopping what you poorly refer to as Stunbots. What I meant by what is already in use is pinion, long shot, head shot and the other 3 abilities they have. so what's with this constant "oh see? you prove my point that they are stun bots" Sheesh. go play a ranger before you make such statements

They made lightning arrow the same as stuns many years ago, giving the mobs 4 second stun and 3 second resist, just like everyone else. I had no trouble with that. but there was no need to place it now on only abilities. and still the same changes go to lightning arrow as the new stuns too.. now 3 second stun with 6 second immunity.. They are no more a stun bot than any nature class in the game.

As it stands right now? with the new updates on blight, I don't consider them any more useful than just playing a scout

*defers further leveling of ranger school until the air clears*

Knossos

Several days have now gone by, and still not a single explanation from any real Developer has come into light here. This issue is just being tossed in with no interaction with players, and seemly with no real rhyme or reason for such a thing to take place. This is aimed at the least problematic classes in the game. What is the end game plan here? is there one? There are currently no adjustments being planned (or at least not being spoken about, to us players on the forum) to make these classes better in any way, shape or form. For now, we are just left to twiddle our thumbs and wait, it seems. Are we being forced to group hunt? if so, with whom? Dragons don't need us to help them, unless they want a healer. So, now we are losing our ability to solo properly as well.

So, how about a Dev stepping up and at least give us some insight, please. I certainly hope this is not going to be about an imbalance that these classes can stun. But here we are, having our stuns completely removed as far as being useful in any manner, waiting for some response. Thank you

These changes were about seriously unbalanced abilities. However, I am open to discussion about them since we have time for additional changes/tweaks.

• Lightning Arrows - Having a stun on every single attack is incredibly unbalanced. I changed it to special attacks as that seems more reasonable. I am open to adding a different effect to the ability for every regular attack, perhaps extra damage or a chance to give an energy DoT.
• Stun, Root, Banish, Bleed, and Mez Resistance. This is necessary so that monsters get a chance to attack and use their abilities and aren't stunned into immobility for every fight.
• A 14s stun is crazy. It really is. However, I admit that I overreacted by lowering it so far. I am considering raising it to 6s and making it AoE.

As far as the schools themselves, I am open to suggestions about how to improve them. Though adding more stuns or longer stuns isn't going to happen.

Looking at Ranger... One thing is that Ranger doesn't feel like it has a central purpose. Is it a nuker, a crowd controller, what. Some specific ability changes though....

• Skin Like abilities +132 armor at level 88... That doesn't seem very useful. I mean, better than nothing, but not game-changing. Might be something we could do there. Raise the value, or change it to be a % resistance or damage reduction
• Headshot. Maybe this could have a debuff... Afterall, its a HEAD shot. So maybe a disorient debuff that impacts the target's recycle and/or to-hit.
• Heartseeker. Another one that could use a debuff to go with its name. A chance to cause a severe bleed perhaps.

Elemental Archer

• Flame Arrows. Had thoughts to maybe have this give the "Burning" debuff. That way future flame attacks by anyone would do greater damage.
• Ice Arrows. Could maybe tie this with Shatter/IceTomb? Work similar to Burning, but with Ice.
• Lightning Arrows. Mentioned above.
• Spirit Arrows. It was a healing arrow, a drain, but maybe it should do something else? Ethereal damage? Or a Spirit DoT? Something similar to "soul link" so that future damage heals the attacker for a time?

The lightning arrow having a stun on every attack, is unbalancing how? A ranger/elar can walk into a field and still spend 10 minutes trying to kill 1 healer and 2 casters.. if they survive at all. I can't speak for everyone as to how they play an ELAR or Ranger. But in my own 14 years of playing one, I do not call this an imbalance. We can not just go out and solo a tons of mobs at a fast pace. It still takes us time to kill even one mob, compared to how short of time it takes many other school. Now consider that most mobs aren't even affected by nature, we (a lot of times ) do very little damage. Now as mentioned above: We hit a mob that is social, like a than'kuk. Now if we do not have lightning arrow and maybe a few druid class stuns.. we are overwhelmed very quickly as we do not have type of crowd control now. 3 second stun? completely useless, you might as well remove the stuns from the game, because there is nothing you can do in 3 seconds. So as I already mentioned, our solo abilities are nearly 0 without stun and lightning arrow. I have never been a big fan of grouping and in today's world of Istaria.. well lets say the only grouping now is for bosses only. Good luck trying to find one (group that is). A ranger does make a good bedside companion to other players in groups, and can make for a very good experience when you group with one who knows how to play it properly. (Yes you might say it helps with crowd control) but for solo, there is no control left with what you are changing in this new patch

We are not like a dragon, we can not go into a field with 20 mobs, run around gathering them into a pile and one hit killing them with something like Breath of Flame Burst (talk about imbalance) So I am not getting this imbalance you refer to. It still takes archers of any type time to kill it's original target, while stunning 1 or 2 others nearby so we can survive. You already fixed the ability to perma stun,
a few years back, and no one really complained about those changes. but now you are seriously lowering archers chances of survival in any solo hunt.

Spirit arrow, good idea's there for life support on ELAR. Though I was fine when I played an ELAR before. and since we have weapons (bloodthorn bow) to steal life. Since not all archers will be able to have, or get Bloodthorn bow, it will be a very handy skill. I'm not keen on soul link from any school, very ineffective from any class I have played, so I can only assume you will consider strengthening it to make it actually useful? as it stands right now, It's as useless as the new stun effects.

Flame arrow also good idea's there. Give a debuff for future flame attacks from other players to be more effective. same for Ice Arrows

Skin like abilities (aren't they already like damage reductions being they give armor?) Maybe add a few more similar abilities depending on the type of ranger you are playing, as they can play either with 1h weapons and a shield, or Bow. I do like the extra armor myself.

Heartseeker, should seriously damage an opponent in some fashion, since it is a Heart stopping shot. Maybe weaken them causing slower movement, less damage output from the creature.. Bleed can work too, but probably not as effective.

Headshot, could be a serious or deadly bleed effect if you are interested in bleeds. Or better yet, what about making the target lose focus on it's prey? similar to a warrior's attack (distract) causing confusion and forcing the mob to change targets or lowering his ability to see, concentrate and inflict damage.

I look at Ranger in a completely different perspective than you seem to. Since you do not play one, you won't see eye to eye with much of what I say. I can only suggest that before you put these new changes to Live, you reconsider that unless you have a back-up plan already in place, you are only going to hurt the player base in a serious fashion. Right now you are seemingly just nerfing them off the bat, rather than discussing this and other options before you make sudden changes as you have already started to do. The way it is right now, you had already planned to just throw this in, and I think this was, and is very poor judgement on your behalf. There was no discussion prior to this, possibly giving idea's for any changes.

Archers are a very well defined group of individuals, if you find a person who knows how to play it. Can have a major effect just taking things away like this. Also, you are not just hurting one type of player in this fashion, you are also seriously damaging Druid / Nature classes that also rely on a lot of the same stuns as a Ranger does. Now a Ranger was in fact designed to kill from a ranged position and you are killing off the entire reason for their existence. Druid schools also being hurt by this decision are going to feel the effects and major complaints will come in later. Druids aren't armored like Rangers, wearing only leather (I believe) and now unable to stun mobs while killing one slowly just like ranger / elar's do. You make it sound like we go out and mass kill and are completely unscathed in our battles. I guarantee you, this is not the case. I have spent many days (at times) figuring out ways to attack certain creatures in the game so I could come out the winner and not end up with a boat load of death points.. Take away lightning arrow and all the stuns.. well now we have a major problem. In most cases, it is the tactics that win you the big fights, this includes taking the time to level other schools for supporting abilities, kiting (running, stop to hit, run some more. stop to stun one and keep hitting another)... all while trying to stay within a mobs direct fighting area, so it doesn't run off from being pulled too far from his home. This is not an easy task.

I am still asking you to leave lightning arrow, and the stuns the way they are. This is not game changing, the way you and others make it sound. I do notice that it's not other archer's making the claims that rangers, druids are overpowered in any way. Even warriors can kill much faster than any ranger. Lightning arrow is not a stun every hit as you claimed, since you fixed that with the introduction of 3 second stun immune. Archers also miss a lot for some reason (also not considered) especially on epics. which (BTW) are stun / mez immune on greaters and mez immune on lessers.

I ask that you take a week and go play an archer/druid class in your free time and then think about the changes you are putting into place. This should have been discussed long before you just decided to throw it in, so myself and others could have possibly contributed info that could have been useful. Right now you are simply looking at it as other non-archer classes describe, and not from actual knowledge of the class

I did like the changes made to KNoC, those were great. I even leveled a character just for that school. But taking away the survival techniques of 3 other schools is just wrong, especially when (seemingly) based only on hear-say. Please tell me of any fight, any place, any time, where a ranger has even come close to reaching the ability to single hit or mass single hit kill anywhere near what dragons can do and I will give up my bow. I will gladly talk about imbalance, if you wish. For now, I ask that you leave ranger / elar and druid schools alone unless you have a good plan in place (before) you jump in with both hands to seemingly obliterate them like this.

Regardless of the rumors you hear, it can take several minutes for a scout/ranger/elar/druid to kill just one mob. This is not counting the fact that most times you have several hitting you while you are trying to kill just one. as don't have mass capabilities. we kill one at a time like most other schools do. Please take that into consideration. Also that archer classes completely rely on being ranged. how can we stay ranged with some sort of additional support like stuns? we are not stunning 20 mobs and just standing there killing them off one by one like fish in a barrel, as some people would have you believe. We can only stun just so much. maybe 2 - 3 mobs if we get swamped by social types. those stuns do not last very long even at 14 seconds like thundercloud has. it takes much longer to kill the initial target, than you think and those stuns are gone and we still have cool downs to deal with after.

Now I am not trying to be rude here, but you folks seem to have some very odd things you consider to be either overpowering or game changing when it comes to slow killing, less damaging schools, than you do about the obvious one.

I also hope to hear some others on the forum speak up as well. Lets get your idea's for these schools.

There was also no mention about the fact that you are also hurting druid type schools here, what plans to give them some love when you take away their abilities to stay alive. You have opened a can of worms by this up coming patch. I don't think you realize how many schools you are essentially damaging with this.

Folks, this does include you already. This is not just about Rangers / ELAR's here. All nature based class will be affected by these same changes and on a large scale. Your opinions would be appreciated

Thank you for that post Mali,
I agree in all points.

Its no secret that we are close friends- but that does not influence my opinion with that issue.
And we often enough disagree^^
We did not talk about that- belive it or not dear readers.

I said on another place, that I consider that changes dangerous. Mali did say it better than I could do.
So I hope its heard where it belongs to be heard.

Mali- I doubt that we will ever have a discussion again like it used to be on forum once.
This times are gone. *shruggs*

In post 9, above, is stated "A 14s stun is crazy..."

Yet in the Thread "Talk to the team:Sorcerer - Post 29" is stated:

"If I can find a way to make it so that mobs (and players) can't be chain-stunned then I could see my way to allowing a 20 second stun."

I urge the reader to review that thread for context - http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...-Team-Sorcerer

Knossos

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knossos

In post 9, above, is stated "A 14s stun is crazy..."

Yet in the Thread "Talk to the team:Sorcerer - Post 29" is stated:

"If I can find a way to make it so that mobs (and players) can't be chain-stunned then I could see my way to allowing a 20 second stun."

I urge the reader to review that thread for context - http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...-Team-Sorcerer

Knossos

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The context of the thread is Sorc, which generally deals with Mez skills (which break after x hits) and not stuns (which last for x amount of time, period, end of story, doesn't matter how many times you hit it).

It seems to me that Amon just used mez and stun interchangeably, which is totally understandable for the context but not applicable to this thread. 14 seconds of a mob being frozen in place and unable to act no matter how many times you hit it is crazy. A 14 sec/20 sec 'crowd control' that breaks after a small amount of hits/one hit definitely is not, as it lets you set aside mobs you don't want to deal with and take them out of the fight as long as you control the rest of your party so stray AoE doesn't hit said mob and free it.

Seems to be just a semantics thing.

Edit: Last I checked, Ranger was near the top of the biped schools. Sure, RANGER can't run around like a drgn and smash everything, but you biped schools weren't made to be used on their own. A multi-classed ranger most certainly can do that, albeit perhaps not as often as other schools can. They definitely don't have a high time-to-kill for single mobs, either, as long as you rotate your lengthier cooldowns in a timely manner (multishot, the flurry whatsit, etc). I think you're severely downplaying Ranger's ability to deal with multiple targets and combat ability in general, though I do agree that this change seeeeems to kinda have come out of nowhere.

Thundercloud was ridiculously strong though and definitely needed to be shoved over, then kicked a little while it was down.

Thanks for missing the point a little there Alisto. The reference was made about stuns, and Amon's willingness to raise the stun timer (nothing to do with mez)once stun lock was taken care of (is being called into play). Well, stun lock was dealt with and all were happy again in their worlds, until someone decided to kick the door down and fire off a shotgun, with no apparent reason. Now the attitude is: "This is how it will be and nothing you can do about it" This is not the way to go about this.

(Amon):As far as the schools themselves, I am open to suggestions about how to improve them. Though adding more stuns or longer stuns "isn't going to happen." Now he is saying that 14 seconds is crazy, after stating he would be willing to go to 20 seconds.

No one is asking for longer stuns, or more stuns. Just that you leave what we had alone. If you haven't played a ranger, how can you make such judgment calls as these. You need some background to form an opinion on, but you have none.

You can't just walk in and take away 1/2 of what people worked hard to build their characters up to, just because you don't like how it turned out in the end. We are not talking about someone just logging on, making a ranger, taking it to 100 and suddenly he's overpowered. We are talking months and years of work, practice and figuring out how to play this class with the resources we have at hand. Then to have someone basically say "Oh I don't like that you figured out how to play it so well, so we're just going to tear it apart now without any warning what-so-ever". Not even any consideration into the other what? 6 - 8 schools that are also now inadvertently screwed as well because of this sudden and unnecessary change? Just telling everyone that TC was ridiculously strong and needed to be kicked down and beaten, is quite a stretch of the imagination and a completely false statement at that.

for starters, we are not always fighting one singular mob, as many are social. We still have our quests to do, and do not want, nor need to stand around town, hoping and praying for a dragon to come to our rescue. Or enough people online to form a group. There aren't enough people now to get a group, for something that should not require a group. But if a mini boss has a very social family, then we are screwed without out defenses. You are completely forgetting that we are not hand to hand combatants, yet we are being treated as such. There's a reason the word RANGE is in RANGER. 2 decent stuns in the druid family, does not make it out of balance. Now I can make it work using other schools, but then what? you tear those down too? where does it end? I do not believe this issue is related at all to any imbalance.

my final thoughts:

Can something be overpowered that is ingame more than a decade?
The game has become more challenging, the mobs stronger, healthier and tricky.
So how realistic is it to call such old items/spells/abilities overpowered, when they weren t for such a long time.
(and pls consider: We payed and played for it)
or is there something else behind. that I cannot see?
What I often hear is plain enviousness.
And sometimes I feel send back in the early 60ties where lefties all over the world
claimed all and everything for all and everyone.
Here in Germany we have something like protection of acquired possessions/vested rights (grandfathering??)
But well-as said: final thoughts. I m out of this now.
Not only spells and items become obsolete.

I don’t have much to add to what Knossos and Malicore have written, just planting my flag next to theirs because I think they are right.
As you astutely noted Amon, Rangers don’t really have a central purpose. They were designed as a middle of the road generalist who could do a little of a few things but nothing incredibly well. A support role that could heal a little, attack at range, and buff. The main weapon in their arsenal was/is CoT, roots, snares, and stuns. Bow damage is piddly unless you go for a full out STR build, and once you get in melee range you take a hit to accuracy. Rangers can use 1h melee weapons but get no specials except ones that have been mastered from other classes. Keeping mobs at range is critical to the survivability of the class, and you have taken that away. Maybe why that’s why we get an extra run buff? You may as well change the name from ‘Nature’s Path’ to ‘Run Away!’

And to touch on what Malicore mentioned, the first time I rounded up a bunch of mobs on my dragon and fired off a primal-cast BOFB, I thought, “There is no reason to play a biped anymore.” That was before adamantium scales. Thunder Cloud and Lightning Arrows are by no means overpowered. And its not a stun on every attack, it’s a chance to stun on every attack, big difference if the RNG isn’t cooperating. Are you going to do the same thing to Lightning Claw? I’m sure if anyone played a Storm Disciple they would be pretty pissed off to hear the news.

As far as EL AR goes, spirit arrow doesn’t do enough damage for its leech to even be noticed. I’d opt for ethereal damage. Also, get rid of ‘elemental arrow’ (useless) and give them an energy attack instead.

The rest of the delta... I don’t get it. Some fixes, some fluff, some love for the low levels. The stances look interesting but what happens to Rapid Fire Stance? One of a Ranger’s defining abilities… is it gone now too? You say our stuns are overpowered, but then you add a potion to make levelling easier? And a potion to make resting more effective? We have a heal with a 15 second timer: nobody rests. Well I take that back, I suppose a new player might. Lovwyrm, one of the games staunchest advocates, comes to the boards and cries out in frustration about not being able to kill bosses because of a bug and your response is ‘get better, grow stronger’ and then you make the bosses harder. Because stuns are overpowered?


In the interest of harmony, I have presented a list of things in no certain order that you could be spending your time on instead of pissing off/alienating your veteran playerbase:
Fix the plots in Morning Light
Fix the lair in Chiconis
Fix the boss mobs regenerating (id look at the flee mechanism).
Do something with Tazoon for god’s sake
Finish the t3 revamp
Start the t4 revamp then
Finish the T4 revamp
Start the t5 revamp
Condemned plots
Bosses with ¼ health for 30 seconds after you kill them
How about some adamantium gear for the biped? My dragons waddle around with T/C and Primal around 2200, my bipeds can barely get a skill above 1750.
Maybe flip the chainmail/ringmail meshes so they actually match their description.
Finish what you started on the Satyr Islands, or put Alged back the way it was
Dryads; seriously a race that can fly can’t cross a freaking stream? Stop being lazy, fix the mechanic.
Life bolt plz, thy.
Demon’s flurry overwrites Hero’s Resolve.
Stop nerfing classes, abilities, and spells. Remember when people played as Reaver? I do. Pretty soon the only classes you will see are Healers and Dragons.

I leave it up to those that have done their research to make the logical arguments. All I can say is I agree wholeheartedly. Ranger got hit with the nerf bat and also with the druid nerf. Now the class sadly will lose whatever little use it had. I sign this.

@Mali If you went to the thread and scrolled back a bit, you'd see that the couple of posts Knossos referenced were about Spellbind and it being a 20 sec 'stun' that broke after x hits. There's a bit difference between a 20 sec 'stun' that breaks after a small number of hits and a 14 sec stun that renders a mob unable to do anything for the duration, no matter how many players are beating on it (especially important, since Istaria has a LOT Of multistrike skils). I even explained why I guessed that Amon was using mez and stun interchangeably - which was, again, based on that the chain of forum posts were all aimed at Spellbind. So, yeah. Semantics. Stun that breaks on a certain nubmer of hits vs stun that lasts the full duration no matter what. One is very, VERY strong with a 14 sec duration (TC :D), but a stun that lasts 14 sec and breaks after a small number of hits definitely isn't. It seems you've also fallen into the semantics trap xD Goodness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LOVWYRM

my final thoughts:

Can something be overpowered that is ingame more than a decade?
The game has become more challenging, the mobs stronger, healthier and tricky.
So how realistic is it to call such old items/spells/abilities overpowered, when they weren t for such a long time.
(and pls consider: We payed and played for it)
or is there something else behind. that I cannot see?
What I often hear is plain enviousness.
And sometimes I feel send back in the early 60ties where lefties all over the world
claimed all and everything for all and everyone.
Here in Germany we have something like protection of acquired possessions/vested rights (grandfathering??)
But well-as said: final thoughts. I m out of this now.
Not only spells and items become obsolete.

---

To answer your first question: Yes, most definitely. The only thing you can really say about something that exists is that...it exists. There have been bugs lasting years in istaria. Doesn't mean they're not bugs when they eventually do get fixed (like trading bound items).

And really, you're right. The game HAS changed. And that's what you need to take into consideration - is this or that thing too strong compared to alternatives? As the game grows more challenging, it becomes more and more noticeable what items/schools/etc are overperforming compared to their counterparts. What remains is - do we nerf to da ground or raid the ground up. Is Thunder Cloud too good cuz all the other options suck, and so those other spells should get changes? Or is Thunder Cloud just miles ahead of still-useful and well-used spells and should be brought down.

And Lov, you know I have a decent amount of legacy items. I still say a good chunk of 'em are OP. You would be hard pressed to call me envious :)

Furthermore, you paid and played for the items you had, but would you deny others the chance to do so just...because you did? I'm not sure how that makes any sense. Or that, just because you played and paid for the game and leveled Ranger or w/e school during, it should...never see any nerfs/changes, ever? As Meeps said - this could, and imo likely will, open up some more nice changes for Ranger.


Aaaaand again - I do agree that this change kinda came out of left field and probably shouldn't go live without some additional changes. But I do think the changes to TC were well deserved (6 sec AoE stun sounds cool).

Edit: Someone correct me if I'm wrong...but this stuff is all still on the blight server, right? *Presses the 'Don't Panic' button*.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

In the interest of harmony, I have presented a list of things in no certain order that you could be spending your time on instead of pissing off/alienating your veteran playerbase:
Fix the plots in Morning Light
Fix the lair in Chiconis

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What is wrong with these? A quick search in our support system with relative keywords returns no results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Fix the boss mobs regenerating (id look at the flee mechanism).

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This is actively being looked into by tech, we have alread sent out a first patch that seemingly took care of the issue on a large scale, if it is still persisting sending us full reports with logs and anything else you can supply helps track things down much faster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Do something with Tazoon for god’s sake

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There are plans for Tazoon, and it is actively being worked towards, but there is a lot of work involved which makes it a long-term project.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Finish the t3 revamp
Start the t4 revamp then
Finish the T4 revamp
Start the t5 revamp

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See above, future content is a large scale undertaking and takes time away from the core team that focuses on them, furthermore troubleshooting bugs also takes time away from these projects.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Condemned plots

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I believe we tackled most of these, I cannot check in our database if there still are some around currently, but if there are they will be touched upon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Bosses with ¼ health for 30 seconds after you kill them

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This is most likely the result of a timeout between the client and the server, and can be caused by a number of factors, sending in logs of when this happens if you can reliably trigger it and sending those in to support can help track down the issue faster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

How about some adamantium gear for the biped? My dragons waddle around with T/C and Primal around 2200, my bipeds can barely get a skill above 1750.

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Bipeds do not have T6 broken (the only way T6 would happen) armor because they have T6 broken weapons and jewelry, there are no plans to expand the system currently.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Maybe flip the chainmail/ringmail meshes so they actually match their description.

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A texture-swap for these can be considered, though it would be low priority.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Finish what you started on the Satyr Islands, or put Alged back the way it was

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There are currently no plans to work on the Satyr Isles to my knowledge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Dryads; seriously a race that can fly can’t cross a freaking stream? Stop being lazy, fix the mechanic.

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We cannot fix what isn't broken, nothing lazy about it. Now if we cut the joking, there is no way we can put in "limited flight" for dryads without it taking a lot of time to not look and work strange.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Life bolt plz, thy.

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I cannot personally comment on this, so I'll leave this one open for Amon to comment on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Demon’s flurry overwrites Hero’s Resolve.

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Will be looked into.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trust

Stop nerfing classes, abilities, and spells. Remember when people played as Reaver? I do. Pretty soon the only classes you will see are Healers and Dragons.

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You have to keep in mind, as was said earlier in this thread, that in some cases a rebalance of certain abilities is required for something else to be brought forward, like the Gold Rage change of a couple of years back. This change is currently also only on blight for now and there are no plans to push this delta as-is to live, as we have several more planned for the next content patch.

Please also keep in mind that not everyone on the team is working on the same thing, tech won't be working on art assets, art won't be working on new logic/deeper lying bugfixes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Liseth

You have to keep in mind, as was said earlier in this thread, that in some cases a rebalance of certain abilities is required for something else to be brought forward, like the Gold Rage change of a couple of years back. This change is currently also only on blight for now .

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Lol- last word cause drags are involved:
No Lis-nonono. Do not compare apples with pears.
The weakening of GR was NOT a nerf..for those who know how to play that game. I eg did not care at all.
Drags did not loose anyrthing of their power or abilities. Just needed little change of tactics -if at all.
Now-Weakening Rangers AND other schools- means annoying people who- at least most of them- know how to play.
And they cannot just play other tactics to compensate.

It all boils down to one thing, in my opinion, and that is this

Any time a school starts to become the dominant one, it gets nerfed in some manner, using some made up excuse of how unbalanced it is. This has happened several times before, and will happen again if we made another school the dominant one. We can't allow any class that might come in competition with this games only claim to fame "the Almighty Dragon" But.... lets not discuss how overpowered that is. Instead, this week, lets pick on a ranger. My word, they can stun 3 mobs at one time for a whole 10 - 14 seconds (but lets not be realistic and say that the ranger died because the other 5 mobs he couldn't stun, killed him).. this is unacceptable. This class is unbalanced!!!

This is called Propaganda (take the worst info you can find about anything, and blow it out of proportion, to make it sound as bad as you can, in order to gain the backing of anyone gullible enough to believe half truths) This has been, and is still being used world wide to control people in any circumstance where it is convenient and suitable to the person (persons) way of thinking.

So far the only ones that are totally accept-ant of this change are the 3 dragons that have posted here (hmmm, coincidence?) These also being able to kill 20 mobs in that same 14 seconds that a ranger can stun 1 or 2 mobs for while maybe being able to kill 1 in the allotted time frame. (and back on cool-down / recycle timers for those same stuns and flurry they had to use in the process) You people are making it sound like rangers are overpowered, but not giving the full information. Using what little info you have, to convince others of things are completely false. But you are going to do what you want to do anyway.. When you have angered enough players to quit, maybe then you will begin to understand.

The difference between myself and the people looking to shoot down other schools is: I have knowledge on both sides of the fence, as I equally play a biped and a dragon (3 dragons and 3 bipeds, to be precise) I play a ranger on my main biped (I have most schools in the game). Because we learned to combine multi-classing the right way and make our characters stronger, doesn't make them overpowered, it just makes us better players for being able to combine things in the way the game was designed to allow, and you want to punish us for this.. Amon, how many schools in Istaria have you played? Every time, every dominant school gets nerfed. This has been proven time and time again. I'm tired of hearing how each dominate school is suddenly "overpowered and needs to be nerfed"

one example, I remember this too, Trust.

Originally Posted by Trust
Stop nerfing classes, abilities, and spells. Remember when people played as Reaver? I do. Pretty soon the only classes you will see are Healers and Dragons.

I'm not going to get into an argument about each individual point, it doesn't accomplish much more than raise everyone's blood pressure. However, we do have time before the next update and we are reading and listening for ideas about how to improve things. Lightning Arrows was broken, but just because it wasn't fixed years ago doesn't mean it should never be fixed.

How do we improve other things around it moving forward? How do we make it more useful and interesting beyond stun-locking mobs? That is what we're all wanting, what we're looking at.

I agree that Rangers /should/ be more powerful, so that questing/leveling up is not a complete chore, but do remember that this is one class out of MANY. You should be encouraged to multi-class to gain benefits from other classes to help you in battle. However, I will have to pause my leveling for now, as it takes far too long to kill mobs even with stuns.

Instead of focusing on nerfing stuns, make them not obligatory and more of a luxury, enabling the Ranger to take care of mobs WITHOUT needing to rely on stuns, but still using them if necessary. Allow them to have multiple stuns that last a short time, and perhaps give them an active that surpasses stun immunity (to compliment the short stuns) for a short time by doing a quest? I say by quest because, in PvE, you often get attacked by multiple rangers/druids/scouts and you cannot escape their chain stuns. You rarely get stun immunity and it's awful. Even if immunity procs, it is immediately gone by the time you move 1 foot. If they were able to get a skill like that, it would probably cause a lot of problems. I dunno. Just a thought.

I'd like to hear what other long-time players of rangers think? My ranger is only around level 50, so I'm not too keen on how this would affect things. =)

"You rarely get stun immunity and it's awful. Even if immunity procs, it is immediately gone by the time you move 1 foot. "


This is part of the issue with the current method for getting stun immunity and why stun-lock is still possible. It uses a trick with the timer system so that at the very last second it gives the immunity. If you keep getting hit by stuns it will negate this because it will never reach the end of the timer. Stuns should not be something that occur every single moment, chained or otherwise, they should be something used tactically in combat to interrupt or change the tide.

The goal should be to make stuns used less frequently in order to allow for the addition and improvement of other abilities that can help make combat more fun and engaging.

That aside, some things I have on my notes to look at for the next delta are:

• Compare Bow and CBow DPS to 2-H DPS and to Bolt DPS. Something seems off with ranged attack damage, you should be doing a good amount to compensate for the relative lack of protection.
• Look at recycle times of Headshot, Heartseeker, Ranged Flurry and others.
• Look at implementing some of the changes mentioned above to Arrows and to Ranger attacks.
• Investigate stun abilities again. I suspect some are getting overwritten causing the immunity to not proc or that some aren't classified properly.

""You rarely get stun immunity and it's awful. Even if immunity procs, it is immediately gone by the time you move 1 foot. "


This is part of the issue with the current method for getting stun immunity and why stun-lock is still possible. It uses a trick with the timer system so that at the very last second it gives the immunity. If you keep getting hit by stuns it will negate this because it will never reach the end of the timer. Stuns should not be something that occur every single moment, chained or otherwise, they should be something used tactically in combat to interrupt or change the tide."

The above is about the mobs hitting players, and when this originally started, it was about stopping both the players and the mobs from stun-locking. so far it's only us who have been changed, the mobs can still stun lock any player with ease

This is just part of one of my log files. where is lightning arrow broken? I can send all the files with my ranger fighting X the only epic I can use lightning arrow on that doesn't drop my damage to 20+

04/30/18 21:10:18] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 168 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:19] You began using Demon's Flurry on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:10:19] Mordel hit Project X for 343 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:19] Mordel hit Project X for 333 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:19] Temporary Stun Resistance matched keyword and will not be applied
[04/30/18 21:10:19] Temporary Stun Resistance matched keyword and will not be applied
[04/30/18 21:10:19] Temporary Stun Resistance matched keyword and will not be applied
[04/30/18 21:10:20] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 234 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:20] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 234 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:20] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 234 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:20] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 234 nature damage.

You can easily see that lightning arrow doesn't not keep overwriting itself and in the following, you can see that it does not go off with every shot as you claim. It was used about 5 times in the length of about 1 minute (3 or 4 second duration). during which time, even demon flurry was active

[04/30/18 21:09:56] You began using Demon's Flurry on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:09:56] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 378 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:56] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 436 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:56] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 463 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:56] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 413 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:56] Mordel hit Project X with Drain Strike X for 2391 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:58] Demon Flurry failed because Weiss has Ranged Flurry III
[04/30/18 21:09:58] You used Electrified on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:09:58] You used Electrified on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:09:58] You used Electrified on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:09:58] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 409 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:58] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 439 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:58] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 397 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:58] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 431 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:58] You began using Demon's Flurry on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:09:59] Alatum hit Project X for 361 primal damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:59] Mordel hit Project X for 665 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:09:59] Mordel hit Project X for 566 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:00] You used Electrified on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:10:00] You used Electrified on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:10:00] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 389 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:00] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 339 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:00] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 386 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:00] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 377 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:00] You began using Demon's Flurry on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:10:02] [MarketPlace: Bela] thanks again... I believe I was asleep for way to long this time. The world has truely changed,
[04/30/18 21:10:02] Mordel hit Project X with Snarl V for 539 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:02] Mordel hit Project X with Snarl V for 484 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:02] Demon Flurry failed because Weiss has Ranged Flurry III
[04/30/18 21:10:02] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 420 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:02] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 394 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:02] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 392 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:02] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 381 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:03] Alatum hit Project X with Galewind V for 102 pierce damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:03] You began using Demon's Flurry on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:10:04] Mordel hit Project X with Staggering Howl II for 626 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:04] Demon Flurry failed because Weiss has Ranged Flurry III
[04/30/18 21:10:04] You used Electrified on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:10:04] You began using Demon's Flurry on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:10:05] Mordel hit Project X with Bite V for 710 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:06] Demon Flurry failed because Weiss has Ranged Flurry III
[04/30/18 21:10:06] Demon Flurry failed because Weiss has Ranged Flurry III
[04/30/18 21:10:06] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 375 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:06] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 470 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:06] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 403 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:06] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 356 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] Alatum hit Project X with Bite V for 391 primal damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] Mordel hit Project X for 669 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] Mordel hit Project X for 773 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] You began using Demon's Flurry on Project X.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 326 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 351 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 465 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] You hit Project X with Demon's Flurry for 358 nature damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:07] Mordel hit Project X for 48 pierce damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:08] Demon Flurry failed because Weiss has Ranged Flurry III
[04/30/18 21:10:08] Mordel hit Project X with Ravage III for 657 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:08] Mordel hit Project X with Ravage III for 717 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:08] Mordel hit Project X with Ravage III for 692 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:08] Mordel hit Project X with Ravage III for 693 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:08] Mordel hit Project X with Ravage III for 717 spirit damage.
[04/30/18 21:10:08] You used Electrified on Project X.


But as long as you do not have a solid plan in place, it will be completely wrong to just throw those nerfs at us the way you planned to do. KNOC got a year discussion, we got literally no notice other than blight notes. How welcome is this approach? This was planned on the premise no one would notice till it was too late. If it had been an open discussion as it should have been, this wouldn't be happening the way it is. But you were just hell-bent on wiping out stuns from at least 8 schools. As I have repeatedly stated, you have never played a ranger, so all you are seeing is complaints and what's on paper. It would be more helpful if you actually knew what a ranger was about, and no manner of talking on a forum is ever going to explain this to you. The only way for you to know, is to play one and you can't or won't.

I do appreciate a lot of changes made over the past few years, don't get me wrong. But I am also willing to stand up against the things that appear more like tyranny as opposed to being a discussed and planned change. You were completely wrong in this manner. If you thought "Lightning Arrows was broken, but just because it wasn't fixed years ago doesn't mean it should never be fixed." then that means you had all this time to make a discussion and talk about changes. The way you handled it? you woke up and said hey, today we kill all the nature class survival abilities but lets not say anything. WTH. This is why I asked that you remove the upcoming changes, sit down and have a proper discussion, since you ARE interfering with at least 6 - 8 different schools with no regards to the after effects you will cause and no plan in place to help replace what you are taking. You need to have some foundation, and not a blitz attack formula. All well and good if you get Ranger somewhat sorted here, but then what about all the other nature schools that still haven't even been discussed yet, and still also being affected by this same change?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malicore

KNOC got a year discussion, we got literally no notice other than blight notes.

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I don't have a horse in this race as I don't actively play a ranger/bow class but...
Just pointing out that blight patch notes are the only mention that we get for a LOT of content (revamps ring a bell?) where there is/was no discussion before the content went to blight.

It's on blight now, which leaves room for testing and feedback. If it were pushed to live with no notice I'd be as upset as you seem to be, however that is not what's happened. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malicore

So far the only ones that are totally accept-ant of this change are the 3 dragons that have posted here (hmmm, coincidence?) These also being able to kill 20 mobs in that same 14 seconds that a ranger can stun 1 or 2 mobs for while maybe being able to kill 1 in the allotted time frame. (and back on cool-down / recycle timers for those same stuns and flurry they had to use in the process) You people are making it sound like rangers are overpowered, but not giving the full information. Using what little info you have, to convince others of things are completely false. But you are going to do what you want to do anyway.. When you have angered enough players to quit, maybe then you will begin to understand.

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I think it's more of a coincidence that you're going off on assumptions lol. I have a biped with several 100 classes that I've played on fully invisible mode (for reasons not relevant to this discussion) for several years now, and surprise surprise, ranger is one of the 100 schools! :D

Aside from that I have another biped with a large number of craft classes above 70, a couple at 100, and mage in about the 60 range as well as some other adv schools. I'm taking a bit of a harder route than your average player would take, heck, it's essentially like playing the game as if it was dead (also again, fully on invisible), which is why my adv is far behind in comparison, gotta be able to craft all my own stuff before I even truly consider adventure leveling.

Next to those I have both a satyr and a gnome as well but I rarely play those and have them more just to fill some of my slots.

But because I know the next argument will be "Well you can say all you want, where is your evidence" I'll grab the mirror ahead of time while I wait for the character to be transferred to my new account and ask you "Where is your evidence I only play dragons?" I don't have anything in my signature/profile that shows I only play dragons, I've edited pages on the Lexica that benefit both sides of the game as well, clearly something that a "dragon" cannot know, right? Oh wait that's right, I don't belong in the senior group so clearly everything I say (or heck, anyone that doesn't agree with your little mindset), regardless of whether it's factual or not, is simply false and a dragon-only player's opinion right? Gotta have that Elitist Pass to have an opinion that counts! (I'm really not surprised many have fled the forums...)

It also saddens me that people have forgotten the meaning of Blight, it used to be a home where things actually got tested and reported and then changed if needed...but it seems people just consider it an "early preview" thing now? sad :'(

BTW, lightning arrow is not a stun every hit. it's a "50% chance" to stun. if you don't like that value, then lower it a bit. changing it to being only special attacks isn't the answer. Maybe lower to 25% chance to stun and leave is as it is now, an ability arrow. not connected to special attacks.

"It isn't broken, it's by Design"

meepsa: I think it's more of a coincidence that you're going off on assumptions lol.

Your whole theory of Ranger being stun bots is all assumption, and that's ok?

Besides your vested interest in this change.. No one said you ONLY play a dragon. That was your assumption. Just because you leveled Ranger, doesn't mean you know anything about actually playing one. A lot of people have ranger school. Now go play it, then post your thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malicore

Your whole theory of Ranger being stun bots is all assumption, and that's ok?

Besides your vested interest in this change.. No one said you ONLY play a dragon. That was your assumption. Just because you leveled Ranger, doesn't mean you know anything about actually playing one. A lot of people have ranger school. Now go play it, then post your thoughts.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malicore

So far the only ones that are totally accept-ant of this change are the 3 dragons that have posted here (hmmm, coincidence?)

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This is you, literally saying I, as somebody who sees the promise a change like this can hold, clearly only play dragon. But please, crawl back on your words and say that isn't "what you meant at all".

You are now also assuming I haven't truly played ranger (mhmmm, that's why said ped was built entirely around her ranger build, to not play ranger) just because I once again don't agree with you, only further proving what I said before both about the forums/mindset "Yeah but you haven't played it long enough because I say so!" and this whole discussion. (oh and why are you commanding me to play a school I already played and know? doesn't seem very community friendly to do such things.)

Either way, I posted my 2 cents, and I've also noticed this discussion has moved on to another place where it was discussed without pitchforks, torches and toxicity, so I'm not sure why the forums have to be 100% pitchforks and toxicity 90% of the time, but I think I'll also take full distance from it now...

This thread is quickly descending into attacks, so I'm bowing out. If you have ideas, please share them in Suggestions. Otherwise, have a good day.

I agree Amon
esp. cause there is no reward for the famous last words
*shakes head in disapproval*

meepsa: (oh and why are you commanding me to play a school I already played and know? doesn't seem very community friendly to do such things.)

I apologize it came off sounding like a command to go play it. I should have worded it better. you should "Take some time to actually play your ranger, then come back and make your assessments of the school." Now, if you had played one for any length of time, you wouldn't have referred to them as stun bots, making it sound like it's a school that can stand there and kill all day without having to worry about dp or taking any damage ( any ranger knows better ) I am sorry this turned into a quarrel as opposed to a decent discussion, but when others come on and immediately start acting like they know all about rangers, and are doing nothing but giving false info and pasting a bad label on the school, It tends to ruffle my feathers too. just as you didn't like my assumptions about you and your play. It didn't feel good, did it? Lets keep it more respectable from now on. Thank you

(but please have a little knowledge of a school, before you just blast it the way you did) Devs too. what you see on paper, isn't always the way things play out in the game. take a day to at least check something out first hand before making statements that aren't true. Go into the game, actually look at the abilities and see what they they do. you don't even have to play the character to see the abilities and descripts. Thanks for your time

I will forgo pointing out everyone who wanted Dragons' Gold Rage nerfed, whining about the still-present stun lock being looked at...
***
Haven't read the whole thread, but regarding the temp stun immunity, it shows as 3 sec immunity on a 4 sec stun ability (say something like lightning arrows). So was the immunity meant to land after stun fades? Or does it start when stun starts, to lessen the chance of complete stun-lock? so that after 3 seconds of the stun have ticked down then it might be able to be re-stunned?

I seems to me like it works like the second example. the timer starts when the stun starts. So to fix the stun lock just increase the length of the immunity time. As long as both mobs and players get the changes, it helps even it out.

As far as ranger/bow classes, it does seem like there is still a near stun-lock capability with lightning arrows...

With a shortbow and ranged flurry, or a demon flurry, the hits with a bow can be 4 or more per second. So whatever lightning arrows stun%chance is, its pretty good chance to land when you get the flurry. Maybe adjust the %chance down? But increasing the stun immunity timer would be near the same thing. Could give lightning arrows a % chance to land multiple effects that would be lightning related. few %chance for a stun, larger chance for a disorient, chance for lowered focus/dex (getting shocked is not fun), maybe a small chance for the mob to briefly enrage and do 200% damage on next attack.. (guess that really pissed it off..)

As fast as bows fire right now, its kinda crazy. How can a bow user have free unlimited arrows plus the ability to fire 5 times a second over and over without ever getting tired? I mean how to they get the arrows reloaded so fast...

Re-work the bows to all fire about 1/4 the current speed, keep damage about as is, but after X number of shots hit the mob, they are taken to their feet and take big damage and big bleeds. How many arrows can you fire into something before it slumps over? So if its possible, set it up so that after X shots, mob takes a big hit of damage, and/or after X time, it takes a damage that is based on the number of arrows it took during the buildup. So the more arrows, the bigger the lump damage is. You put 20 arrows into something with flesh, it should be dead. (Skeletons might be a different story.) Arrows shouldn't be able to shot 5 times a second over and over... I guess that is probably flurry... demon flurry really does add to the crazy hit speeds too. Slow it all down, then add up damage based on how many arrows it takes, then I think it would be more interesting and fun to play class. Multiple bow users could work together and reach the lump damage point more quickly... things like that. new tactics.

Not sure that is possible, but I think some interesting fun things could be done with Ranger. Right now all people use it for is stuns.

the timer starts when the stun ends, not when it starts. the bow doesn't fire 5 times a second. and especially the demon bow, has a 2-3 second draw and fire timer on it (you begin using demon bow ((timer starts)) timer ends, shot fired). There is no longer a stun lock capability. 50% chance to stun. Though if you want to do some damage, you need to remove lightning arrow and use a dragon crystal. so, now that most mobs have resistances, even less chance of lightning arrow to stun as you can not use both dragon crystals and lightning arrow in combination

I do like some of your other suggestions. add them to the suggestion thread where this has now moved to?

When I observed the inbound changes that may come to Rangers I sighed. As a long time paying customer of this game and the 3rd biped player to reach 100 in all adventure schools, I had some experience playing ranger. The person who taught me how to play this class was Trust. Trust is arguably the best damned ranger on Chaos shard or at least he was. I followed his skill set with Moregoth to develop my combat style as a ranger and that involved lightening arrows (it was a fundamental part of all the skills he would juggle). Over the years of playing this game and seeing changes (I started on 9 December 2003) it has suffered from some unnecessary changes (Many changes have been good especially considering the size of the dev team). This is another one of those changes I have to question.

I am currently finishing my Master's degree in business and one reoccurring theme pops in the workplace and it is necessary for organizations to remain healthy. You have to understand and be prepared for change.

However:
1. Changes to core principles/concepts must be meaningful and add measurable value to your product or service.
2. Do not needlessly provoke those who support you financially.

Personally, I wish something positive would happen to Beserkers (my class of choice). Forever and a day they have been Istaria's misused stepchild among the biped classes. (I apologize for going off topic)


Malicore, Trust keeping fighting the good fight. Maybe I will log in and come and see you.
Regards,
Vengeance/Moregoth the Hunter