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I cant think of any situation those two spells are of any other use then to show off. For me they do around 350-500 damage which seems to be little underwhelming for 5 minutes cooldown and forever cast time + they put Heros Resolve on cooldown. Someone suggested to use it with Primal Cast but literally any breath attack will do better. On other hand none of my dragons is very good with spells. So I wanted to ask how others use them?
My flame specialised biped averages at 600 per hit of volcano, which isnt bad..but not something i multicast because i get a higher damage if i get spells like fiery strike to proc from damage kicker techs, ahahah.
My dragon uses them to draw in multiple targets and as added damage.
Dragons do not have as many spells as bipeds do.. Not sure why?
Drulkar's Wrath, and Volcano suffer from the same issues with the other epic spells Dark Cyclone, and Shining Blades.
All have less than "Epic" damage. Multicasting is the only way to get a semi decent output, but other spells do better as mentioned by Azath. And Shining Blades cannot even be multicast.
I wouldn't mind seeing the damage quadrupled on all of them, and the ability to multicast them removed. Also widen the area of effect to 10 to 12m. Then they would at least feel Epic. To get these changes I would even accept having the timers increased to 20 or 30 minutes on them, but also remove all the linking, especially with Hero's Resolve.
Linking to Hero's Resolve makes no sense, since one is a melee ability, and the rest are spells..
Heros resolve now increases dmg for spells too.
I agree with Guaran. These spells are all supposed to be epic. I wouldnt mind having a bigger cooldown and multicast removed to make it epic by having more damage. Atm i just use them as regular attacks now and then. All thats epic atm are the animations.
Volcano is not that bad -if you you use all stat and dmg boosters there are.
And if you are a caster.. somehow.
And PLS.. do NOT put away the multicast effect from it-its an area spell- and multicast works fine!
And yes- allow hero`s resolve with it.
Volcano is ok for Flame and me (hybride caster)- Drulkar needs some love
ok- here are current numbers- tested some min ago- together with Flame.
did not want to post it here- cause Amon might read it^^P *puts wings around Amon`s head so he can`t read^^*
Volcano:
Lov: average dmg per hit by Volcano: 1605-3327
combined with primal cast: 11579-22649 total dmg per Volcano (depends on how many mobs we could pull- all from Queen`s corridor-from gatherer to Hierophant)
Flame: average dmg per hit by Volcano: 1599-3191
combined with primal cast: 23985- 40845 total dmg per Volcano ( he missed less than I- and had more mobs^^)
Drulkar`s Wrath:
Lov: 1707-2352 per hit by DW
Flame :2863- 3181 in one fight he had a total of 74792 total dmg per DW
pls note: we fight together most of the time- but that is not necessary to get this numbers.
sure one cannot pull that much as 2 can- so total dmg is lower.
*sigh*^^ DW seems to have improved- so not sure if it needs more love..
Maybe now you can understand that it would be a bad idea not to allow primal cast with the epics..
Why do I have the feeling I should not have posted this?^^
But those results are not per single monster right?
no Tili- never tested dragon epics on a single monster--only used it for groups of mobs.
Will do that later and post results. Though that makes no sense for me..???
From view of a Biped (that's me!)...
Volcano is good as it is. Be Mage, use Perfect Spell + Multicast3 + Burnout and there's almost no common creature you can't one-shot. And this as an area effect.
My personal example would be the Turgid Purple Weavers and their minions. I am able to pull 3 Turgids (each having 2 other minions, at least) and one shot them. I don't know but that looks like Volcano has it's use for sure.
First, sorry for the wall of text. I like to try and include as much insight/point of view as possible on things I got experience in. Hopefully, this will spark more conversations and maybe answer or create new questions? xDQuote:
Originally Posted by LOVWYRM
Lov, I don't think you understand, but I'll see if I can help. When doing DPS/damage tests, you need to account for single target hits to see how much damage you're doing (without multicast buffs), and then compare them with a weaker ability (with less cd as well), again on a single target. In the details of the skill, Volcano, for example, is supposed to do 400-550 in flame or primal damage. At least I'm certain mine doesn't do the numbers you had reported to a single target or even multiple targets ^^. Sure, that might be the total when you hit multiple enemies, but a total from multiple hits/numbers is rather unhelpful when used to see what is weak or overpowered (you can't compare it with skills that don't hit multiple times, and it's harder to find an average if you only combine the numbers). If we're fighting an epic boss, 800x3 is only 2.4k damage total, which is pretty cheap on a 5-minute cd, and remarkably little damage compared to abilities that appear to be considerably weaker if you account for the spell's DPS (that being 96.94, weaker than Breath of Lightning, Drulkar's Wrath being weaker than Ice Breath at 85.00, and Breath of Flame Burst being a whopping 280. This is, of course, ideal for an ability spell received upon ancient hood, but not great if Drulkar is weaker than a little breath of fire hehe).
Also, consider that these spells are doing as much as Drain Strike without Hero's Resolve. That's sad considering the 5-minute CD Volcano and DW have, but Drain Strike boasts a 45-second CD while also healing you back. I can't seem to find any use for these spells in a combo, either. I don't want to waste my Primal Cast on either of these epic spells, as Breath of Flame Burst is a much better alternative (especially for a non-caster), and I'm almost always using Hero's Resolve in fights where an epic spell may have mattered, so they're always on that shared cd. All I can think of is using it as a cleanup spell when fighting multiple enemies (though, my primal AOE spells usually take care of them before that).
I'd much rather use primal cast w/ Breath of Flame Burst than Drulkar's Wrath OR Volcano, even on my caster dragon Lycheeberry. BoFB will do a reliable 1.1-1.4k damage per hit (usually stronger than my gold rage lol), while Volcano does 700-800 per hit and DW doing 600-800. I find myself never using DW or Volcano unless I'm fighting a boss with 40k+ hp. They're kind of useless to me and certainly aren't "epic" considering how much damage they dish.
From a biped view (reading the other posts in this thread), it seems Volcano is perfect after a few buffs have been cast. Maybe Volcano can be left alone, but Drulkar's Wrath could get a boost? Especially considering that is dragon only and finding a use for these spells is difficult as it is right now. I'm always using a combo of Hero's Resolve + Primal Cast and then Breath of Flame Burst for maximum damage. The epic spells as they are now will never come close to the numbers BoFB has given me.
Again, this is coming from a caster standpoint, though I do have my fair share of melee bruiser drags. Just giving my views, though I don't think this is a high priority matter and therefore I don't mind whether or not something is done about these spells now or later. ^^ However, while I'm not really against a change, I'm not for making dragons even more overpowered, either. I do understand there is a lot that goes into what can and cannot be changed, and why. PvP comes into mind, if the CD stays 5 minutes, but the spells get a massive damage buff, you would participate in many 10 second long battles (unless the participants ban those spells from the duel (: ). Casual PvE would be considerably changed as well, as most players with these spells would be able to easily 1HKO enemies every 5 minutes. This could probably be fixed by extending the CD even more, but by how much, I wouldn't know. The spells could have a debuff or a DOT or some effect added, could be affected by Stances too. The spells could also be left alone, but remove the shared CD with Hero's Resolve and I'd be using them much more often. I think that would be a good place to start. Not sure what to do about the double hit from Hero's Resolve, though. Maybe other players or Virtrium might think of a better plan.
But these 2 are area of effect spells, so should you even compare them to single target spells? I'm not arguing they aren't underpowered just its hard to compare the two differant types.
Seeing as I can't really handle much more then 1 or 2 mobs at a time (of any decent lvl) I never see the high total numbers she is reporting and rarely use them.
My numbers are really lower then anyone else seems to report. I used DW with multicast just last night and was getting 350 to 400ish, with BoFB was 500 to 600 I think.
If the damage is multiplied while the ability to multicast is removed, it levels the playing field for all players, makes the damage come close to being actually epic, and you can save multicast for something else.
So you use Fusion Burn (converts all flame damage to ethereal flame damage) and the results are decent? Well that might be ok for mages, but not everyone else. You shouldn't NEED Fusion Burn to get good damage out of Volcano.. You shouldn't NEED ability X to get good damage out of any Epic spell really.. It should be Epic in its own right. None of them are, save for the spell animations.
5x the damage, triple the cooldown (set them to 30 minutes each), set aoe to 12m if it's less, remove ability to multicast them, and remove the shared timer with Hero's Resolve and each other.
Then we can have some epic fun, and tactically use the spells.
Thank you Waterwing- I got the point:-)
Tili explained to me before.
My fault.
But -as I would never use an area on a single or up to 4 mobs (those I attack with melee)
I am still very satisfied with my results if I use it on crowds.
Epics are an important part in our tactics when we fight high level crowds. And to use primal cast with them.
Its the first step. It works for us-Maybe there are other better tactics.
And NO- I do not need or want a spell with a 30 min cooldown, I do not need 12m reach, and I do not need Heroes`resolve.
Woulden t that be`a bit an overkill???? 5x the dmg?? And if it misses (like Volcano often does) ..nothing??
Just Flame and my opinion..
And surely I cant talk about biped`s Volcano: I simply have no experience with that.. but area means the same for all of us I assume..
edit:
What might cause the different opinions:
I never tested Volcano/DW without best equippment, potions, crystals, buffs , dmg boosters aso.
The result might be as poor as you all describe.
But shoulden`t we look at the results with all tricks and help Istaria has to offer??
I like that point of view. Right now you need to tweak them with XYZ things to make them be okay. Epics really should be 'epic' on their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaran
When I was leveling my last 9 adv classes I depended heavily on Perfect Spell + Multicast + Volcano and Dark Cyclone. They didn't always be a one-shot with a crowd but then it was easy to clean up with other abilities or spells. I was ok with the cd. It would have been very boring if I didn't have them. I think they are working fine so if the Devs take the time to modify them it could have a side effect that many of us are not happy about. It always comes with a cost to some players. So I say leave it.
Just my 2-cents :)
cheers
This is was I was talking about, or trying to say. Although I didn't state it, I was thinking it. These spells alone should not be doing a measly 800 damage at their best. Even then, I find myself using Volcano over Drulkars Wrath. This is a strange situation. Why should a volcano be stronger than a fire god?Quote:
Originally Posted by Guaran
Good point. I'm the same w/ Breath of Flame Burst, so I see where you're coming from. A lot of these players (including me) are just having a hard time seeing where and how these spells are supposed to come into play. If BoFB is on CD, sure, these could be used. But it wouldn't be a high priority spell to be used under the effect of Primal Cast if BoFB is not on CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRock
Also, I just thought of this, but considering a lot of caster dragons don't have a high damage high cooldown spell, they're kind of left in the dust when it comes to damage output. Sure, we have BoFB, but so do strong, melee dragons. <--- these guys are getting all the benefits in combat. They never have to use any other skill to 1hko aside from Gold Rage (which has the same cd as BoFB). Essentially, they have Gold Rage (a 3-hitting ability that does roughly 800 damage to a whopping 2k per hit on strength/t&c built dragons), plus a Primal Cast + Hero's Resolve -> BoFB that will do an average of 1k per hit 4x. Meanwhile, casters only have the benefit of BoFB. We don't really have any other strong alternative, and definitely don't have all the perks of bipeds.
This is when people start talking about Primal Burst, or Gold Burst or whatever. But I think that should be saved for another topic, and that should also be replaced with a more primal based, stronger Drulkar's Wrath and NOT change Volcano. ^^ Again, I don't really mind if these spells are or are not changed. I'm still gonna play the game hehe. To be honest, I am a little more reluctant on change, because I really don't want to see any class become too overpowered compared to others. A pure spell-using dragon using Hero's Resolve against say an epic boss can do a hefty amount depending on what they resist, or if using a crystal to convert and increase damage (such as 1k per hit x2 with Drain Bolt against Surthiem using ice). With that in mind I think that a change is not required. But these epic spells are still not being used! That is where my confusion is coming from, and we're right back at the beginning and root of the problem. (: