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Just a quick suggestion about the "Attack" spells (Fire, Ice and Energy).
Would it be possible to bring all the spells in line with the flame attack (I.E. you can use Conjuration to cast flame attack but not ice or energy).
As a bonus suggestion, it would be cool to add other effects to the spells (fire has a % chance to deal a DoT, ice a chance to slow, ECT.) I think that would go a long way to spicing up the spell line!
-Q
I've no idea what you mean with bringing them in line with flame attack but they're fine as they are atm, no need for extra effects?
Flame Attack can be used with either the Flame skill OR Conjuration, but niether ice attack or energy attack can be used with tge Conjuration skill. That's what I meant when I said bring them in line with flame attack, allow the other two to be cast with Conjuration just like flame attack.
Additional effects was just a suggestion to spice the spells up. It couldn't hurt to give the something other than a damage carrier and small boost.
I realize I keep saying Conjuration instead of summoning, which is the correct skill. Flame attack uses summoning or flame skill to cast, which makes it nifty for for those of us who use summoning. It would be nice to have the other two attack spells mirror that, so that summoners could cast them all.
That make sense? Sorry for the mix up!
-Q
Ah yeah I understand now. Yeah indeed surprising that it's only flame attack has either flame skill *or* summoning skill.
Though I only see it being a problem (somewhat) for Knight of Creation, as that's the only school that only gains the summoning skill without also gaining energy/ice. But yeah you could indeed suggest adding summoning to the requirements for ice/energy attack too.
Indeed, KnoC would receive the most benefit, and I'll admit that I'm biased being primarily a KnoC myself. But it would help the Conjuror as well because these spells could be used earlier if they used summoning rather than if the Conjuror overleveled for ice/energy to catch up.
Seems like a quick change that wouldn't be to intrusive, considering one of the spells already uses summoning.
Chances are the Flame Attack was changed inadvertently.
However it seems unnecessary to me to add summoning to any of them. You get more or equal skill in ice and flame, than summoning, when leveling mage or conjuror. Those schools get both skills. And Wizard doesn't get summoning skill so it wouldn't make sense for Energy attack to use "or Summoning" to use it.
Knoc requires summoning to join, which means you need 20 mage anyway. And with 20 Mage, you can cast the tier 1 versions of all three of those attacks. And on top of that, Knoc only gets 7 summoning/level. So you get 20 Mage, then even if you decided to level Knoc to 100 before leveling anything else, you would only end up with 560 summoning (knoc starts at level 20, so 80 levels at 7/level) which means you would only be able to cast the tier 3 attack. The primary purpose of the Attack spells is to change the damage type. You already get that with 20 mage. The tiny difference in +damage is really minor.
A good strong knoc will have 100 mage behind it, and with that you already the 3 elemental attack spells up to the tier 5's.
Alright, I'll concede. It's apparent the idea isn't a popular one, but I do want to touch on two things you brought up Guaran. First, while it is true that KnoC can cast the base teirs because of their 20 mage levels, it isn't (in my opnion) true to say that the other levels are useless because they simply add a few points of damage. Speaking as a primarily low level player, those few points can make a big difference for myself and my group.
Secondly, sort of segwaying into the last thing you mentioned, was your comment that simply having 100 levels in mage will solve all of the problems. I see this mindset here on the forums and IG often, and it rankles me. I think that all of the classes should be a complete and wholesome experience from 1-100. There should never be a requirement, explicit or otherwise, that another class should be leveled first in order to make any class enjoyabale or more interesting. Multiclassing should be done to come up with cool combinations and synergies, not in order to make something bearable.
KnoC used to be a boring uninspired class with nothing really going for it, now sisnce the revamp it's actually an incredibly rewarding experience. There's only the small issue of it not really having any spells to cast because the Summoning line is so sparse (what, three spells? Not including the epic?). So I figured, why not have the attack line at least, it fits with their playstyle and wouldn't require much work on the devs part. I only hope that there will be a summoning overhaul at some point which could add some more stuff for Conjurors and KnoCs to cast.
I apologize if I came off as snarky, I'm not trying to be argumentative.
-Q
I need to play around more with the new Knoc.
The added damage is likely 5 to 10 when hitting with abilities that do 250 or more damage. It's just a percent or two. Also the higher tier attacks cannot be cast on someone that doesn't have the required levels, so always save the tier 1 copies of the attack spells. It's really not a big deal using just the tier 1's, and often that is all you can use or cast on another anyway.
As far as the class being complete from 1 to 100, the thing to remember is that Knoc is a Prestige class. Those are not meant to be your first school to 100. And at 100 knoc, technically you can think of it as 20 mage + 80 knoc levels. Mage is one of the base schools, the best way to play is to get Mage or some other primary school to 100 first, then do a prestige school such as Knoc. You will likely have tier 1 thru 5 set of mage spells, which is entirely an impressive lineup of flame, ice and energy spells. You will have 1000 flame skill as well, plus 900 to 1000 power. So even as a level 20 knoc, casting a tier 1 flame bolt, you will be doing 160 to 220 damage per hit with it. You will have an energy bolt teched with Stun as well, it will hit for a bit less but hits more often. All that damage capability in a plate wearing school... which by tier3 will exceed the armor amount that a tier 5 mage gets in padded ironsilk. This is when you really feel the power of the prestige school.. Your character would already have more summoning skill than you will get by taking knoc to 100 as well, so those couple spells would hit harder too.
All I am trying to say is that it is a common misconception that a prestige "should" be able to be your first school to 100, but they aren't really designed that way. Now you could go ahead and do it, and once you had 20 mage and 100 knoc, you would have some skills that would help then go back and level mage. But you would be switching back to cloth armor, and then this class would be a more difficult trip to 100 as well thanks to your higher rating. Doing it this way will take more effort to level both of them, whereas leveling mage first, while still somewhat difficult, is a good learning experience and it paves the way for a very strong start in knoc which will then be easier to level thanks to having access to many more spells. What is enjoyable is up to the person, and different players have different expectations. Some might want to level knoc to 100 first just for the challenge of it, while others will do mage first because they like casting all of the bombs. It isn't about being enjoyable or not, it's just the way the classes work.
Knoc has access to cast a multitude of flame, ice and energy spells, once those skills are learned from mage, conjuror or wizard. Knoc itself is plate wearing and mainly a sword user with just a few summoning spells. It's a tradeoff for a higher survivable class that it doesn't just come with 20 spells on top of getting to wear plate, as a single class... But you can have the best of both worlds by leveling 2 schools. And pretty much all of the prestige schools work in this manner as well.
If you are just getting started, there's lots to do that will keep you busy for some time. Because no matter the order you level mage and knoc, there is also Healer (to max out your life and focus skills, which increase healing done plus give a couple passive heals, plus better spell accuracy/damage), Warrior (to max out health, armor use, shield use, strength, and all the melee weapon skills some of which are needed to equip certain priceless and/or Epic weapons), Conjuror to max out ice skill and gain some new mastered abilities, Wizard to max out energy skill plus some new masterable abilities, Spiritist so you can use Spirit Bolt (nice ethereal damage has it uses) plus some nice masterable abilities (aoe lifetap, some passive ethereal armor), Sorcerer for some crowd control abilities, some good mind spells like Daunting Mist, which is a nice boon to mage bombers (run around and get their attention, run a bit to pull them into a group, cast daunting mist which slows them, then cast the three bombs. 20 mobs all dead, much danger encountered and conquered, much fun was had), Berzerker to max out the 2 hand slash skill of your sword carrying Knight of Creation, Monk to max out the Dexterity and Evasion of your Knight... the list goes on. And right in the middle of all this, you might find out that Class Y is really fun, a totally different playstyle, and decide to switch mains. Even more fun you didn't know you were missing just happens, and the adventure keeps going just in a new direction. And you can always go back to Knoc for a main school whenever you want.
It's a lot of fun to plan out your build and then build it, getting stronger as you go. Have fun :)