Quick question on the Lore
Hey guys.
I play on Order and I have a few questions on the games lore.
First, does it support furred dragons? Magma dragons? Water/Ice/any other elemental dragons?
Also, does it support soul-sucking elves?
Dragon-slaying gnomes?
Blighted dragons who are also gifted (because any player-characters are gifted by default, right?)
And to clarify some stuff that seems to be true:
Dragons read books?
The Lore supports the existance of Earth? What time frame did the ancients that did so visit Earth?
Dragons are fire spirits in physical form?
And some general questions to do with dragons:
How old can/do dragons live to be?
Does a dragon "pair" only have one hatchling at a time? Or are there more than one egg?
How long does it take a dragon egg to hatch?
How are dragon "relationships" handled in the lore? Life mates? Bond mates? Only "mates"( in that they aren't 'together' except to have a child)
Are there "Feral" dragons?
Do humans, or other races, take or steal dragons as hatchlings or eggs and make them pets or slaves?
And some questions about the Gift and dragons:
A person doesn't know if they're gifted until the first time they die?
So all the dragons that are gifted were killed as hatchlings? Or were they adults and just "reverted" back to hatchling?
Do the gifted have memories of their lives before being gifted? Or are they erased when they first die?
Nothing personal against the people whom may play these types of characters, just trying to straighten some things out for myself.
I may have other questions in the future, so I will update this thread with them as they come along.
Re: Quick question on the Lore
I dont know much about dragon-related lore but this is what I know:
dragons came from the realm of fire with their god, Drulkar, to the realm of prime (the realm istaria takes place ;)), but they quickly found that their forms couldnt remain in the realm of prime (and yes, I think they are fire spirits, could be wrong though) so they wrapped themselves in primal magic, granting them a physical form (this WOULD make it possible for a dragon to be whatever it wants to be, so in essence, furred dragons, element-related dragons, wyverns, everything is possible lore-wise).
not sure how dragon relationships are handled in the lore, the only lore relationship that I know is between Hetshia and her dead mate...
I would not know about "feral" dragons....I guess there arent
pet/slaves: nope, dont think this is ever mentioned in the lore (not counting the enslaving of saris by the other living races, but thats a whole different story)
gifted:....I guess so lol, so yeah, every dragon was killed a hatchling, no memories are erased methinks, cause you dont go from normal to gifted, but you are "born" gifted
again, I'm not a professional with lore:o, so dont take everything I say for facts
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eelime
First, does it support furred dragons? Magma dragons? Water/Ice/any other elemental dragons?
Also, does it support soul-sucking elves?
Dragon-slaying gnomes?
Blighted dragons who are also gifted (because any player-characters are gifted by default, right?)
The lore does not explicitly support any other type of dragon than what you can make in the character creator. Istarian dragons are aligned with fire, but can utilize other elements, usually as breath attacks. Dragons from other realms that are non-Istarian and are aligned with other elements are out of lore in the Istarian sense, but the fact that there exists a portal to other realms in the world, it is arguable that they could travel to Istaria.
Soul-sucking, elves or not, is supported through the Spiritist classes that bipeds can take. Many of the spells for those classes are drain-based.
Dragon-slaying gnomes would work so long as they don't mind being branded murders by the Empire and probably being hunted by dragons for the rest of their - likely few - days.
A dev recently said that the blight and the Gift do not really coexist, so technically blighted characters that are truly Gifted break lore.
Player characters are Gifted in game mechanics because they have to be, but it's really up to the player whether or not their character is Gifted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eelime
And to clarify some stuff that seems to be true:
Dragons read books?
The Lore supports the existance of Earth? What time frame did the ancients that did so visit Earth?
Dragons are fire spirits in physical form?
I should hope dragons read books, what with all those libraries full of the things. :P
The lore does not directly support the existence of the planet we players live on, if that is what you're asking. There is a Realm of Earth, I believe, but that's something totally different.
Dragons are said to be fire spirits that took physical form in the Prime, but I cannot recall if that is legend or if it is actually fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eelime
And some general questions to do with dragons:
How old can/do dragons live to be?
Does a dragon "pair" only have one hatchling at a time? Or are there more than one egg?
How long does it take a dragon egg to hatch?
How are dragon "relationships" handled in the lore? Life mates? Bond mates? Only "mates"( in that they aren't 'together' except to have a child)
Are there "Feral" dragons?
Do humans, or other races, take or steal dragons as hatchlings or eggs and make them pets or slaves?
None of these are covered in the lore as far as I know. As for ferals, anything can become feral if it's born in the wild and has no community to raise it.. a dragon can't magically learn language and that it's bad to kill people and that not everyone is out to get it after all.
As to pets, I would wager that any biped that is known to be keeping a dragon as a pet or a slave would soon find themselves beset by a number of angry dragons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eelime
And some questions about the Gift and dragons:
A person doesn't know if they're gifted until the first time they die?
So all the dragons that are gifted were killed as hatchlings? Or were they adults and just "reverted" back to hatchling?
Do the gifted have memories of their lives before being gifted? Or are they erased when they first die?
I can't recall if it's fact that you can't know you're Gifted until you die, but it's pretty heavily implied by the starting experience, at least for me.
The hatchlings/adult question is not really answered. I imagine if an adult Gifted dragon died, they would return as an adult. It's just game mechanics that only hatchlings show up on Skalkaar, imo.
I don't believe the memory question is really answered, but I can't remember for sure.
Re: Quick question on the Lore
I'd add a question, there... does the lore say dragon hatchlings are able to speak properly and know some things just after their hatch?
Re: Quick question on the Lore
I don't know of any lore that says either way, Lung.
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raptress
The lore does not explicitly support any other type of dragon than what you can make in the character creator. Istarian dragons are aligned with fire, but can utilize other elements, usually as breath attacks. Dragons from other realms that are non-Istarian and are aligned with other elements are out of lore in the Istarian sense, but the fact that there exists a portal to other realms in the world, it is arguable that they could travel to Istaria.
Neat
Soul-sucking, elves or not, is supported through the Spiritist classes that bipeds can take. Many of the spells for those classes are drain-based.
Ok. That's great to know.
Dragon-slaying gnomes would work so long as they don't mind being branded murders by the Empire and probably being hunted by dragons for the rest of their - likely few - days.
Awesome. I don't remember when this came up, but when I was typing this post, I remembered someone mentioning or claiming to be a dragon slayer gnome or something
A dev recently said that the blight and the Gift do not really coexist, so technically blighted characters that are truly Gifted break lore.
Player characters are Gifted in game mechanics because they have to be, but it's really up to the player whether or not their character is Gifted.
I understand how you say it's the players choice. But that would mean that a player would have to delete their character if they died, right? In or out of RP. Because, by game mechanics, we are all gifted. If players are "allowed" or "encouraged" to bend the rules as such, anything could be possible. Such as a player going thru the gate of Embers and coming out as powerful and wise as the Dragons' god.
Guess what I'm trying to say is; this is an MMORPG with a set of "rules" (Lore, and other rules)for the role play, so shouldn't you try to role play within those "rules" and not try and bend and turn them every chance you can find something that is a bit iffy?
I should hope dragons read books, what with all those libraries full of the things. :P
I asked this because Dragons always struck me a scroll or tablet readers rather than books :S
The lore does not directly support the existence of the planet we players live on, if that is what you're asking. There is a Realm of Earth, I believe, but that's something totally different.
Ah. I understand now. I brightened up a bit when I read that while doing the lairshaping quest. I always like it when authors (games, books, or otherwise) hint at the existance of Earth (either as a different world, dimension, or a time in the past of their own world) in their work. Oh well :(
Dragons are said to be fire spirits that took physical form in the Prime, but I cannot recall if that is legend or if it is actually fact.
The Lairshaper Guide/Trainer said it in a way that made it seem fact, I think. I don't remember him saying it was legend or not. Do you know of any sources I could go to and get more information on the subject?
None of these are covered in the lore as far as I know. As for ferals, anything can become feral if it's born in the wild and has no community to raise it.. a dragon can't magically learn language and that it's bad to kill people and that not everyone is out to get it after all.
I can see this, and it makes sense.
As to pets, I would wager that any biped that is known to be keeping a dragon as a pet or a slave would soon find themselves beset by a number of angry dragons.
I can't recall if it's fact that you can't know you're Gifted until you die, but it's pretty heavily implied by the starting experience, at least for me.
The hatchlings/adult question is not really answered. I imagine if an adult Gifted dragon died, they would return as an adult. It's just game mechanics that only hatchlings show up on Skalkaar, imo.
Ah, but game mechanics (to me) are part of the Lore. That is, a hatchy can't fly, no matter how hard he tries, because he isn't strong enough and can't become so, and because it isn't supported by the game.
I don't believe the memory question is really answered, but I can't remember for sure.
Thanks for all the answers :)
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Raptress
I don't know of any lore that says either way, Lung.
I was asking because I wanted to see the source and be sure, after someone said, in the "Closing up Shop" forum: "The ones that ARE normal as far as lore go, mostly hatchlings, are seemingly played by people who don't understand that a young dragon doesn't and shouldn't talk like a toddler and the like."
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LungTien Temeraire
I was asking because I wanted to see the source and be sure, after someone said, in the "Closing up Shop" forum: "The ones that ARE normal as far as lore go, mostly hatchlings, are seemingly played by people who don't understand that a young dragon doesn't and shouldn't talk like a toddler and the like."
Well, hatchlings aren't born gifted, I think. You aren't "born" at all when you enter the game. You're a hatchling that has just discovered that they are an Immortal Gifted. So it's safe to say that you have some previous life experience, including knowledge in language.
Baby, just born, is different than hatchling, in the way that we as players start off as, in my opinion. That is, we don't start out in an egg, and we're much larger than we would be if we had hatched recently.
In other dragon-related lore, tho I don't know Istaria's stance on this, dragons will often have the ability to learn while still in the egg (much like the dragon you are named after did) and so would probably be born with the ability to speak.
Also, I'm assuming that dragons are quite intelligent from the start. That's partly because of Dragon self-pride, though, and partially because of speculation.
Dragons are also quick learners, usually. In Istaria and in other "realms" (based on lore and speculation), and so I assume it wouldn't take long for a dragon hatchling to go from having a hard time to speak, to talking like a normal person in no time at all. A matter of days or weeks.
We aren't humans, or bi-peds, so it's not fair to base the way we grow up and develop off of them.
To me, the best way to role play a newly born hatchling is to speak normally, almost a little to formally, and to ask a lot of questions about a lot of different things.
Another thought; For all we know, a dragon could spend only 1, or maybe 5, possibly 10, maybe 30 or more years being a hatchling. Dragons live to be thousands of years old, even longer possibly.
So, whose to say we don't start our life in the game (and I think everyone should base themselves and their characters as they start the game within the game mechanics. That is, a normal hatchling that looks like the one you created in the character creation, and has the same name you started with [unless you purchase a name change token and change your name]) as a 50 year old dragon hatchling?
This is why I think games that are so role-play heavy like Istaria should have more areas to more deeply define our characters. That is, age, description, our past, etc... I believe there is an MMORPG, that puts the RP back in RPG, that has a pretty amazing and deep character creation process. The stuff you choose in the character creation affects your stats a bit, but most of it is just for "Show" and doesn't do much. It would be nice if Istaria could add stuff like this, even if it's all optional.
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Some players prefer to roleplay a newly hatched hatchling, before he/she discovers being Gifted... I'm not sure if a Gifted forgets everything after the first death. Also, istarian dragons aren't nromally growing by themselves, as I have heard, but they only grow with RoP and ARoP.
Anyway, dragons can have different aspects, depending on the way one is thinking of them. I was just looking for a source about the istarian ones.
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LungTien Temeraire
Some players prefer to roleplay a newly hatched hatchling, before he/she discovers being Gifted... I'm not sure if a Gifted forgets everything after the first death. Also, istarian dragons aren't nromally growing by themselves, as I have heard, but they only grow with RoP and ARoP.
Anyway, dragons can have different aspects, depending on the way one is thinking of them. I was just looking for a source about the istarian ones.
I know some players may prefer to role play that way, but, in my opinion, they shouldn't.
To me, we role players are actors. Our characters are our "role", Istaria's lore is our setting, and the game world our stage. It would be odd to have an actor come onto stage for a play about the life and death of some famous man, and then claim to be an ape that he was just born.
In Istarian terms, we are given a "start" to base our character off. We are all discover that we are gifted by finding ourselves on Skaalkar, an already experienced dragon. Experienced enough to know how to fight when told to, to reply to the NPCs that talk to us, and understand instructions given to us.
Tho that's just my opinion.
To clarify, my opinion is that we should act in the setting and stage that we are given and utilize our ability to free-form the script. My opinion is that we shouldn't bend and turn the rules so much that people have to go "is that even possible...?" or "...is that right?" every other time we type a post.
A dragon speaking like a baby bi-ped isn't within the "setting" of our "play", if you will.
Though, I can see how people feel like they should be able to role play how every they want, and I believe they should to (just being sure to stay within the setting and stage). I believe this is mostly caused by a lot of unconfirmed lore by the devs, or just a bunch of missing info that would be nice to have filled in.
It would be great to have so many gaps in the lore for the role players to fill in if this were a small RP forum or chatroom or a something similar, but this is a MMORPG that attracts people from all walks of life. People just end up getting hurt or pushed away if we don't have constraints or rules on how we role play.
I'm okay if a "Special" dragon can fully support why he is special by pointing me to a solid, dev/game confirmed piece of lore, and not just hypothetical situations and possibilities caused by gaps in the lore. If "it could happen" is all that the dragon has to back it up, I have a hard time accepting it.
An example of a "Special" dragon I would accept is a dragon that comes through a "gate" similar to that of the Gate of Embers that closed after it entered Istaria. If it entered the world as a hatchling or egg, and then was born. That's possible and believable. To reinforce it, you would say that your dragon looks exactly like an Istarian dragon, as it has to, but the powers/abilities are just a bit different. That makes sense.
But to say that you randomly were born with furr, or that you somehow got infused with magick or some such when you first died as gifted and came back with furr(I've never heard of anything like that in the lore, granted I have limited knowledge of it), or that your mom was a Sarris (sp?) and your dad was a dragon doesn't make much sense (I don't think this is supported by the lore) just doesn't work for me.
Now, I am not going to tell anyone who decides to RP this sort of character that they should stop or change their character or some such. But it makes it hard for ME to rp if my character/myself just can't understand how half the people he comes across exist. I nor him want to put up with a person that is completely special and amazing every time he opens his mouth.
This is why I stick to in-person (that is, I don't rp usually unless I can see the avatar/character of the person I'm RPing with) and light-RP (no epic, deep story lines with paragraphs of description for each action, for me :D ).
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Dragons aren't spirits of fire. Drulkar and others were supposedly beings of fire who came over from the Realm of Fire, but that is mythology and legend. Relstaroth and Balennos talk about the Realm of Fire in the Lairshaper quests a little and they did return through the Gate of Embers to the Prime.
Before the Ritual, Dragons didn't live to be thousands of years old in Istaria. They were long-lived, that is for sure, but not in the thousands. Now, well, age is pretty much irrelevant as the Ritual took care of that.
The Realm of Earth is not Terra/Earth, but rather a Realm of the element and magical energy of Earth.
The rest, well, RP as you see fit. Some choose to stay within the confines of the game lore, others choose not to. Its personal choice and you should feel comfortable with doing whatever makes the game fun for you and doesn't interfere with the enjoyment of the game by others at the same time. :)
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Sure, Eelime, we have all opinions, it isn't about interacting with space dragon gods or giant flying winged hamsters, or strange stuff like that. ;)
Some players are just starting their characters since their first hatch/birth. The matter is just to have mutual respect. After that, we don't have to interact with one if we don't like his/her style or character.
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmonGwareth
The rest, well, RP as you see fit. Some choose to stay within the confines of the game lore, others choose not to. Its personal choice and you should feel comfortable with doing whatever makes the game fun for you and doesn't interfere with the enjoyment of the game by others at the same time. :)
I second what AmonGwareth said :)
Re: Quick question on the Lore
In Thunder and Lightning by Pat Phelan and Graeme Smith (published by Virtrium so carries some official weight - it's fact as far as the storyteller knows), I recall Gifted dragons being explained as no longer laying eggs. Instead, an ancient dragon plummets into a lava pool to begin life again as a hatchling with no memories. It's one way to explain why there are no dragon eggs in game even as NPC's.
As far as I know, however, there is no official study by the empire that tells whether Gifted can bear offspring. I've generally roleplayed that when we die, offspring in the making are not sustained by the spell that brings us back. I suppose if you want to roleplay being offspring of another gifted, that experience could cause wierd effects to manifest.
Mostly, if the character is nice, I enjoy roleplaying with anyone claiming to be just about anything. I generally do not like roleplaying with anyone acting nasty, no matter how tight to the lore they may be. To each their own preference, no? :-)
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
awdz
In
Thunder and Lightning by Pat Phelan and Graeme Smith (published by Virtrium so carries some official weight - it's fact as far as the storyteller knows), I recall Gifted dragons being explained as no longer laying eggs. Instead, an ancient dragon plummets into a lava pool to begin life again as a hatchling with no memories. It's one way to explain why there are no dragon eggs in game even as NPC's.
As far as I know, however, there is no official study by the empire that tells whether Gifted can bear offspring. I've generally roleplayed that when we die, offspring in the making are not sustained by the spell that brings us back. I suppose if you want to roleplay being offspring of another gifted, that experience could cause wierd effects to manifest.
Mostly, if the character is nice, I enjoy roleplaying with anyone claiming to be just about anything. I generally do not like roleplaying with anyone acting nasty, no matter how tight to the lore they may be. To each their own preference, no? :-)
Yeah, that's how I see it. To each their own. I may not like some of the stuff people do, or disagree with it, but I'm not going to tell them they can't or shouldn't (if anyone misunderstood what I said as such, please forgive me). I ask these questions so I can be a better member of Istarian society and can learn more about my new home.
Thank you to everyone that answered my questions or put input into this thread :) Or even asked questions yourself.
Also, I see that we have a little bit of difference in opinion. Please don't take what I said the wrong way. They are just my opinions on a virtual world, and are not set in stone (which is why I am willing to discuss them).
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Not sure what the "lore Police" think, but as one of the Elder Gifted that
first woke I can attest to some facts.
- When you first appear on Skaalkar/Spirit Isle, you have just
returned from Dying.
- The Gifted only learn they have it after their first death.
- The First Dragons to walk as Gifted were stuck as Hatchlings.
- The Dragon Trainers were the only Adults.
- The Dragon Race had lost the knowledge for the "Rites Of Passage"
to become Adult.
- The Knowledge to enter the Rift and become Ancient was lost as well.
- Being any kind of Undead is Anathema to being Gifted. (as someone said)
- All Gifted are part of an Empire of Living Races.
- The best RP ever were the Events of long ago:
Dodging the Avatar of Pain and his wandering Army of Death,
Cleansing Feladan of the Blight,
Freeing the Satyrs (allowing them to be playable),
Recalling the Dryads (allowing them to be playable),
Battling the Aegis invaders in the Dralk Burial grounds,
Building the Novo Machine,
Battling the Aegis during the Exodus of the splintered realms.
(Server Merge)
Re: Quick question on the Lore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andaras
- The First Dragons to walk as Gifted were stuck as Hatchlings.
I have doubts that this is true. Gifted appeared during the battle of Tazoon (I'm pretty sure), which was an event that players did not witness. I'm sure there must have been adult dragons at the battle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andaras
- The Dragon Race had lost the knowledge for the "Rites Of Passage"
to become Adult.
- The Knowledge to enter the Rift and become Ancient was lost as well.
I'm not sure the knowledge was so much "lost" as non-existant in the first place.
The Rite of Passage was not needed for dragons to grow until the event on Sleeper's Peak that effectively "froze time" for the dragons. The Rite wasn't lost, it hadn't been conceived yet.
The Ancient Rite is a little different, if I'm remembering right. I think it was said that Ancienthood was something that was granted more than grown into, but I am not sure about this. Even so, entering the Rift would not have been necessary before, so, again, this Rite was not really lost either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andaras
- The best RP ever were the Events of long ago: ...
Just because there aren't any dev-run events on a grand scale doesn't mean that there hasn't been RP that was as good or better. I'd call that point more opinion than fact. :P
