Ancient Ascension Video and Feeling about the ARoP

[Pharcellus]

Aye, we finally figured out what was going on with the exta damage, and that is was not, in fact, related to triggering PV.

However, as stated, PV only procs for Gust/Barrage. Neither Tympest or I could get it to fire off for Bolt, Blast, or Tempest. That said, having it work for only 2 out of 5 attack spells is disheartening, especially for the repeater, which does more damage over time than the AoEs to individual targets.

It is also not clear which target(s) get PV procced on them. Is it random, or does it pick a specific one? Is it more than one? Sometimes, I can see it proc up to 3 times, even though I only have two Burning Embers socketed.

Still more questions...

[imported_Frith-Rae]

Lets see, considering there are only7 abilities which use hoard: Gold Rage, Silver Strike, Shield of Gold, Primal Rebirth, Drain Strike XIII, Flame Burst, Dragon Fear. And only 2 of those have hoard costs at more then 1 tier. Gold Rage and Silverstrike. 1 of those has a hoard cost which increases with each tier, Gold Rage. And one of those has a hoard cost which remains the same with each tier. Its not outside the realm of possibility that the hoard cost will decrease, or remain the same.

Seems a mighty big assumption to assume that costs will increase.

Let's look at that really - because it doesn't pan out.

No, ok first you have to throw out everythign we got at Ancient - because there isn't any precendnce set with those. You can't say they "won't" go up with use, they just have their set amount now and are at One.

So that throws out Primal Rebirth, Drain Strike XIII (which is an example of a previous attack that had no hoarde cost, now having hoard cost). Flame Burst, and Dragon Fear.

That only leaves Sheild of Gold, Silver Strike, and Gold Rage to set the standard.

So out of those three, we have two of the three that increased in hoarde price with increase in levels. I am pretty dang sure Silver Strike goes up with each Roman numeral in hoarde cost. Just smaller damage, and much smaller cost, than GR.

Those are also the two that increase with each 10 levels. Shield of Gold does not.

Those are also the two we had to quest for, just like the ones gained with Ancient status.

So 100% of the ones that go up in Roman Numerals at this time, go up in Hoarde cost.

IF you count Drain Strike, that technically DID go up in hoarde cost upon reaching Ancient - since before it was free.

That's the only three abilities we have that cost hoarde, that go up in tiers so far - every single time, costing more hoarde.

So yea - I don't think its too dangerous to assume that following that pattern - If we DO actaully get Flame Burst II, Dragon Fear II, or Rebirth II - then yes, it will indeed go up in price, not down.

If it never goes up, like Shield of Gold - then no the price will remain the same, but then the benefits won't change either (so we're stuck with a one hour timer forever).


So no - I don't see why "Its only the first version people we're getting more" Is any cause for celebration, relief, or expectation that they will go down in hoarde and up in power.

But hey I'd love it if it did.

And going on that trend, we now have three formerly free abilities taken away and replaced with hoarde costing abilities (Flame Burst, Silver Strike, Drain Strike). That's three out of the 11 attacks possible (not counting fear, but if you count gold sheild) that so far, cost hoarde - when before they did not. If you include all "new abilities" gained by Ancient - they almost all cost hoarde. Only 1, Spiked Scales, stayed free. So that's 90% of new abilities gained costing hoarde, 10% not.

So yea, don't like that trend of "improvement" either. For every four or five new abilities we get, one is free. For every old attack that gets reworked (3 out of 4), they again, almost all cost hoarde.

The "revisioning" and "reworking" of Horizons, looks like its putting back that old constant hoarde leak - at least for adventures. And yea, I don't like the exchange, because not all of us are uberlucky level 100 dragons who get 50K in a night's fight. I'm lucky to hit 10K...in a night...ever. Only 86 after all. I have no idea what levels 20 and 30 and 40s and such do to compare their ratio to hoarde burned vs. hoarde gained. Course I"m very stingy with hoarde using attacks.

[Dragoniade]

Aye, we finally figured out what was going on with the exta damage, and that is was not, in fact, related to triggering PV.

However, as stated, PV only procs for Gust/Barrage. Neither Tympest or I could get it to fire off for Bolt, Blast, or Tempest. That said, having it work for only 2 out of 5 attack spells is disheartening, especially for the repeater, which does more damage over time than the AoEs to individual targets.

It is also not clear which target(s) get PV procced on them. Is it random, or does it pick a specific one? Is it more than one? Sometimes, I can see it proc up to 3 times, even though I only have two Burning Embers socketed.

Still more questions...

So much for what was supposed to have been fixed 1 year ago, from the mouth of the Dev. Anytime something is supposed to be fixed on dragon, it is broken the next patch.

So out of those three, we have two of the three that increased in hoarde price with increase in levels. I am pretty dang sure Silver Strike goes up with each Roman numeral in hoarde cost. Just smaller damage, and much smaller cost, than GR.

I've checked with an hatchling last time I logged. His Silver Strike was costing him 25 hoard per attack, while mine is costing 50 Hoard. It DOES goes up per tier, so we're right, which isn't a surprise considering the source's knowledge in dragon... And there's quite a difference between an ability costing 50 and another costing 5000! Is Rez worth 100 Silver Strike, when comparing side by side 2 biped abilities, like multistrike and a Rez? I don't think so.

So yea, don't like that trend of "improvement" either. For every four or five new abilities we get, one is free. For every old attack that gets reworked (3 out of 4), they again, almost all cost hoarde.

The "revisioning" and "reworking" of Horizons, looks like its putting back that old constant hoarde leak - at least for adventures. And yea, I don't like the exchange, because not all of us are uberlucky level 100 dragons who get 50K in a night's fight. I'm lucky to hit 10K...in a night...ever. Only 86 after all. I have no idea what levels 20 and 30 and 40s and such do to compare their ratio to hoarde burned vs. hoarde gained. Course I"m very stingy with hoarde using attacks.

How downgraded. Remenber when Dragon Reach only had a 1 minute timer and got doubled? Or when we got our spells getting tech, which aren't even working. Nearly all of our improvement come with a penality.

And yes, positive hoard farming is pratically impossible alone. Like many says, dragons are good at doing massive damage to a SINGLE target. But when it come to farming, you have to use hoard like crazy to be able to survive. GOing to low, and the hoard reward won't cover the time and basic hoard uses. Going too high, and you won't stand a chance agaisn't those monsters. And the monsters with the highest rate of giving hoard are those dragon can't farm because of their lack of magical defense or good healing, defense (evasion and parrying) and power. Unless of course you start using your hoard like crazy to defend yourself. But in the end, you'll just eat 80% of the hoard you've collected. ANd with a result of about 10000 hoard a day, you're not going to reach your level 100 anytime soon.

[PJ]

postitive Hoard farming impossible alone?

See this Testimonial:

Using every hoard burner I could including a gold shield which cost me 10k I am currently up by 160k in about 3 hours of fighting.

I have no problem with abilities that let me fight and kill 10 fire opal gols in one fight - and I am nowehere near optimal in hoard AND was mostly wearing power gemcrafting scales - although I did have my VVE armor chest and Forelegs with embers and a health crystal.

Once I work out how to best use these new abilities and make some scales tailored to their advantages, and make a new claw once theFangs stack with DL crystalsI will be mammoth.

[Dragoniade]

postitive Hoard farming impossible alone?

See this Testimonial:

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Valornyx wrote:Using every hoard burner I could including a gold shield which cost me 10k I am currently up by 160k in about 3 hours of fighting.

I have no problem with abilities that let me fight and kill 10 fire opal gols in one fight - and I am nowehere near optimal in hoard AND was mostly wearing power gemcrafting scales - although I did have my VVE armor chest and Forelegs with embers and a health crystal.

Once I work out how to best use these new abilities and make some scales tailored to their advantages, and make a new claw once theFangs stack with DL crystalsI will be mammoth.

I have yet to see it myself before believing it. And I'm seeing he made 160k hoard in 3 hours.
At 10k per fight, I'm pretty sure there's isn't much left of that 160k of hoard he collected.

Lets see. 10k per fight. lets guess 1 fight every 10 minutes (to lets the ability recharges). That's 18 fights in 3 hours. 18* 10k = 180k hoard = More hoard used than what is gathered.

[Mirsathia]

Just to add an affirmative that you CAN farm for hoard.

It's quite fun to pull about 20 fire/ash/lava blights, pop up a breeze and SS 8, then Fire Blast them all to their d00m. I'm up about 200k hoard in about 2 hours.



~Mirsathia, violating blights everywhere

[PJ]

I have yet to see it myself before believing it. And I'm seeing he made 160k hoard in 3 hours.
At 10k per fight, I'm pretty sure there's isn't much left of that 160k of hoard he collected.

Lets see. 10k per fight. lets guess 1 fight every 10 minutes (to lets the ability recharges). That's 18 fights in 3 hours. 18* 10k = 180k hoard = More hoard used than what is gathered.

Hmm let me highlight something for you. Up, a net increase, a gain, positive hoard upage, etc etc.

Using every hoard burner I could including a gold shield which cost me 10k I am currently up by 160k in about 3 hours of fighting.

I have no problem with abilities that let me fight and kill 10 fire opal gols in one fight - and I am nowehere near optimal in hoard AND was mostly wearing power gemcrafting scales - although I did have my VVE armor chest and Forelegs with embers and a health crystal.

[Dragoniade]

Just to add an affirmative that you CAN farm for hoard.

It's quite fun to pull about 20 fire/ash/lava blights, pop up a breeze and SS 8, then Fire Blast them all to their d00m. I'm up about 200k hoard in about 2 hours.
~Mirsathia, violating blights everywhere

Aren't you like level 90-95? Sure it's easy to farm monsters 15-20 levels *bellow* you.
Try again with blight from the eastern deadland or tarabantine (sp) golem to see if you hve the same result.

[PJ]

That's the whole point, principle, and method of farming. Butchering worthless mobs that can't possibly harm you. If I was out for cash i'd be at the fire blights too. If I was after hoard, i'd be at Dires, or Icey Dires. All mobs 10-15+ levels below me.

Now I agree its garbage that you pretty much have to farm stuff if you want any reward for effort, but that's true biped or dragon [:S]

[imported_Frith-Rae]

That's the whole point, principle, and method of farming. Butchering worthless mobs that can't possibly harm you. If I was out for cash i'd be at the fire blights too. If I was after hoard, i'd be at Dires, or Icey Dires. All mobs 10-15+ levels below me.

Now I agree its garbage that you pretty much have to farm stuff if you want any reward for effort, but that's true biped or dragon [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-7.gif[/img]

I think his point ws at level 95 or level 86 or level 72 you're using the same amount of hoarde to burn to kill/farm stuff 10-15 levels before you.

But at level 71 or 86 you can't mass farm the stuff high enought to drop 150K hoarde. You're farming stuff around levels 40s and 50s, dropping bells and gold coffer's. So your reward is exponentially less.

For using the same amount of hoarde. I think was his point.

If your're level 100/100 then yea, I see "testimonials" about individual dragons getting back more than what they useup in fights. I don't near see anyone saying that's the "majority of everyone" or any definite stats that "80% of level 100 dragons come out positive on the hoarde amounts".

But if you're not 100/100, if you're level 70 or 80 and you're having to use abilities that cost the same (Gold Rage doesnt' go up after what 70 - so at 70 or at 100 it costs the same to use, same with silverstrike etc) - but you're farming mobs that don't drop items worth 12K hoarde regularly.

I think was the point, I could be wrong though :).

edit: and of course this doesn't take into account how possibly future - further hoarde draining abilties - will effect that "net positive effect" on hoarde. You add more hoarde draining abilities, without upping the drops, eventually you'll be lucky to break even more often than not - much less gain - and often times lower the hoarde you started with - if this trend does indeed continue. Then yes, you will be seeing the "constantly leaking battle hoarde" :)

[PJ]

You can make that point, and its probably a pretty decent one. Never liked the hoard system as it stands. But his point was

And yes, positive hoard farming is pratically impossible alone.

[Mirsathia]

Aren't you like level 90-95? Sure it's easy to farm monsters 15-20 levels *bellow* you.
Try again with blight from the eastern deadland or tarabantine (sp) golem to see if you hve the same result.

98 at the moment, actually. These blights give extrordinary xp en masse. c_c;

Nevertheless, the purpose of farming IS to kill creatures en masse, which we (generally) can't do by killing things on/above your level.

I don't NEED to expend all of my hoard abilities to farm - that's also the advantage of killing those blights that are ~79 level. Fire Blast is the only thing that I'm using, bar the occasional Silver Strike to finish odd ones off. It really does make the profit in hoard pretty huge.


~Mirsathia

[Kitimandiri]

Where do you find these blights....

[Deth]

Where do you find these blights....

Level 78 Blights sound like the Flame Blights? I want to say the Western Blight has some about this level. I know has the high 70's low 80's I was over thier pulling 2's and 3's of diffrent kinds. They ranged from high 60's to high 70's I want to say. Been a while since I have been out there so do not remeaber all the level ranges. I know I just had to watch out for the Kwinn<sp> groups.

[Mirsathia]

Where do you find these blights....

Northwest of Kaa's Spiral.

It's awesome, and thrilling. Even at 97/98 I died a couple times, and came VERY close to dying, because of pulling too many. *G*

I also got about 250s in two days of hunting, did I mention that? ^_^ Half-decent alternative to those who aren't willing to farm gems for money.


~Mirsathia