Dragon Lairshaping Preview

[imported_Denrath]

Read through the latest HoC chat (there is a link on the General Boards). There is quite a bit in there about when testing and all that SHOULD start.

[Talitha]

Well this is looking exciting and interesting. (Didn't I pick a good time to pop back into the world!) I love crafting and teching and formula-collecting out the wazoo, so I'll happily enjoy participating in lair building. ^_^ I've always wanted to help out on contstruction projects but at my level (and species) I'm not terribly useful even as a little packhorse. I adore making things and the grind doesn't bother me a bit (no matter how much I seem to gripe ^_~) so I'm really looking forward to this.

I am a bit concerned about some of the points-per-level and balancing issues I'm reading about here though. Dragons won't be able to become expert-efficient at our own specialized racial construction? Jeepers, that doesn't sound good. And if the same goes for things like scalecrafting and maybe even spellcrafting, this definitely needs investigation. Both lore-based and game-based, Dragons should be independent on the matters of race-specific crafting and construction. ie, I shouldn't have to track down a biped spellcrafter to make me my top-level teched primal spells, nor should I need bipeds to harvest and/or manufacture my best scalecrafting/laircrafting materials for me.

Both in lore and in being a "generalist" class, Dragons should not have to rely on bipeds, period. Work with them by choice, yes, ifwe wish; be forced to depend on them for resources andbuilding and general hand-holding, most definitely no. I want to be able to achieve top-level spellcrafting/scalecrafting/lairshaping/whatever-is-my-Dragon-class-capability on my own, doing quests or grinding or whatever is necessary, without depending on bipeds or biped-made potions or biped miner/gatherers/whoevers. (I'm a stubborn little cuss, yes.)

Me myself and I, we want to be a Spellcrafter. A professional one, regardless of whether it's seen as a "biped crafter class" or whatever. So I'm eating up spell formulae and spell techs, regardless of whether they're primals or not; ^_^ nice teched spells are appreciated on any consigner, I'm sure. (And bipeds coming to me for things, rather than the other way around.) It's fun, it's goodcollecting components, and nice adventure & craft exp in comp-hunting and manufacture. Others may see it as a grind,but I'm just having a blast by my little spellcrafting self. Same with Lairshaping; I'm likely to enjoy the heck out of making/destroying/remaking my lair and contributing to others. ^_^; I'm a little craft-crazy that way. Regardless of the problems I'm looking forward to it, and hope that by working together and contributing constructive criticism (no pun intended!) we can work out the wrinkles and help the devs smooth out the Lairshaping process to its final form.

Flying Cargo Disks? Boy howdy, now there's an idea! Me likes! Note: Should Dragons be able to make their own flying cargo disks? Some form of scalecraft orpart of the crystalshaping tree?After all, nobody else is going to be winging around with them. "Oh hey, look up there! Dwarf with a flying disk!"[:P]

Okay, 'nuff ranting out of me before I ramble any further off topic. Sorry! Thanks for listening. Have fun!

~Talitha


PS: (Thinking along these lines, I wonder what the outcry would be if I suggested that race-specific buildings could only be constructed at expert/highest tiers by builders of that particular race. Example: T6 Dwarf Large House or whatevercan only be constructed by or can only most efficiently be constructed by a Dwarf builder. Same for a Fiend House or what have you. Probably a bad idea, but interesting nonetheless...)

[Goriax]

Regardless of the problems I'm looking forward to it, and hope that by working together and contributing constructive criticism (no pun intended!) we can work out the wrinkles and help the devs smooth out the Lairshaping process to its final form.

As am I. Tier V may be a bit difficult but that's a lot different from impossible, which it was in the past.

Flying Cargo Disks? Boy howdy, now there's an idea! Me likes! Note: Should Dragons be able to make their own flying cargo disks? Some form of scalecraft orpart of the crystalshaping tree?After all, nobody else is going to be winging around with them. "Oh hey, look up there! Dwarf with a flying disk!"[img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-4.gif[/img]

I will be upset if dragons have to rely on bipedsfor flying cargo disks when bipeds can't even fly!

Come on. What do bipeds have to rely on dragons for? Answer: Nothing. What do dragons have to rely on bipeds for? Answer: RoP and ARoP right now. Certainly don't need to add anything else.

PS: (Thinking along these lines, I wonder what the outcry would be if I suggested that race-specific buildings could only be constructed at expert/highest tiers by builders of that particular race. Example: T6 Dwarf Large House or whatevercan only be constructed by or can only most efficiently be constructed by a Dwarf builder. Same for a Fiend House or what have you. Probably a bad idea, but interesting nonetheless...)

I think that's very reasonable. It's likely that someday other races will be able to build modular housing along the lines of dragon lairs i.e. dryad tree houses, dwarven underground construction etc. Hopefully that will be racial specific. In the meantime it seems reasonable to me that each race can only build their own racial architecture.Especially at the higher tiers. However, there is one practical side of this -- many of the buildings currently only come in a human version and racial specific versions may be a long time in the future. So everyone would have to be allowed to build human architecture for those cases where human is the only choice available.

Adding any limitation would certainly cause an outcry which might not be worth it even if it is a very reasonable limitation.

[Deth]

I do not think any class will be able to wok at max efficency with Teir 6. We get the same constrction skill per level as all the other classes.

The flying disk I am 99.99999% sure they said that Ancients would rediscover the skill of making flying disk. So to me that means we will be able to craft them juts maybe not Hatchlings or adults.

As to the Racial only building being built by that race only I have to agree I like that idea.

[Flindar]

Something i just wanted to note.... it may have been covered but i didnt see it....
all this talk of 1200 being achievable by dragons is missing one huge factor.... yes it can be done but 1200 is only the beginning of t6 from what i understand.... under the current bonuses i can see no way possible for a dragon to become efficient in a skill that is suppose to be meant for them alone... Ie Crystal shaping,, not to mention the raw resources that will be required to work the lairshaping.... a maxed efficiency skill seems kinda useless if its support skills are subpar ... to me anyways... im a mega biped crafter and i have a Dragon also and i can easily say that the biped craft stats simply blow away anything a dragon gets....

;) happy gaming

[Deth]

Something i just wanted to note.... it may have been covered but i didnt see it....
all this talk of 1200 being achievable by dragons is missing one huge factor.... yes it can be done but 1200 is only the beginning of t6 from what i understand.... under the current bonuses i can see no way possible for a dragon to become efficient in a skill that is suppose to be meant for them alone... Ie Crystal shaping,, not to mention the raw resources that will be required to work the lairshaping.... a maxed efficiency skill seems kinda useless if its support skills are subpar ... to me anyways... im a mega biped crafter and i have a Dragon also and i can easily say that the biped craft stats simply blow away anything a dragon gets....

[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img] happy gaming

And here is the contention between people. Some are of the mind that a Biped with Miner or Gather/Craft/Construction school= Dragon Crafter/Laircrafter Vs. those that would like to see Biped with Miner or Gather/Craft/Construction school= Dragon Crafter/Laircrafter/Dragon (miner/gather).

It will suck not having a good efficacy at the raw materials bit then any biped with out Miner/gather would be in the same boat as us. Unlike them we just do not have the option to fix that.

[Flindar]

I see what your saying Deth... .but biped specialty classes are not stuck at 8... they get9 for the resource processing....a weaponsmith gets 9 smelting and an enchanter gets 9 essence shaping.... so at least 9 per level for dragons would put it on an even playing field i suppose.... i just think that dragons should be stronger...

[PJ]

Dragon Lairshaper will get an effective 9 per level in resource processing, 8 per level +1 per level from quets.

[Dragoniade]

Dragon Lairshaper will get an effective 9 per level in resource processing, 8 per level +1 per level from quets.

Hmm. Quests are supposed to counter the lack of multiclassing.
Or if you prefer, any biped can take Carpenter, Mason, Thinkerer, etc to increasing their harvesting skills by 10 per skills.

Dragon cannot, so they got quests that give them +1 per level. Dragon should still get + 9 base and +1 per quests. That would make them equal to other crafting class.

We still haven't got any news regarding how the quest benefit will work. When we move to Lairshaper, are we losing our 10 quests and have to redo them? If so, what is the benefit of multiclassing a second class for those skill? There's no room for improvement.

I still defend the idea Dragon Crafter and Lairshaper should have speciality in different sets of processing and gathering skills

[Dragoniade]

I will be upset if dragons have to rely on bipedsfor flying cargo disks when bipeds can't even fly!

Come on. What do bipeds have to rely on dragons for? Answer: Nothing. What do dragons have to rely on bipeds for? Answer: RoP and ARoP right now. Certainly don't need to add anything else.

Don't forget potions. We got so low stats that we have to rely on potions, made by bipeds, to be effective. Especially at gathering at +7 per level.

[imported_Robins]

Hmm. Quests are supposed to counter the lack of multiclassing.
Or if you prefer, any biped can take Carpenter, Mason, Thinkerer, etc to increasing their harvesting skills by 10 per skills.

Carpenters get 8 Logging, Masons get 8 Quarrying, Tinkerers get 0 harvesting skills except for Earthencraft which is a processing skill as well and not used in construction at all.

All 5 Biped construction classes only get 8 to there gathering skill and only 1 per class. Which is exactly what the Lairshapingclass will give Dragons with the Quests only earlier.

[Deth]

Hmm. Quests are supposed to counter the lack of multiclassing.
Or if you prefer, any biped can take Carpenter, Mason, Thinkerer, etc to increasing their harvesting skills by 10 per skills.

Dragon cannot, so they got quests that give them +1 per level. Dragon should still get + 9 base and +1 per quests. That would make them equal to other crafting class.

We still haven't got any news regarding how the quest benefit will work. When we move to Lairshaper, are we losing our 10 quests and have to redo them? If so, what is the benefit of multiclassing a second class for those skill? There's no room for improvement.

I still defend the idea Dragon Crafter and Lairshaper should have speciality in different sets of processing and gathering skills

Doing 1 quest per type every 10 levels does not equal a class worth of bonus to me. I know I will never change your mind on this but I think it is Fair to say that you will never change the minds of the Devs on the fact. If you can more power to you but I just do not see it happening.

[PJ]

I haven't seen it stated that Dragons will have to or will not have to redo quests, and first time i've seen the question asked. But I'd guess that you will not. Purely because, under the ability list, they're listed as

AbilitySchoolLevelType
Spellcraft Mastery XNoneNonePassive
etc.

And similar abilities possed by bipeds are useable in any school joined, regardless of that class or its level.

[zordrak]

I'm assuming that we will not have to redo any of the quests for crafting. If they make a crystal shaping class eventually, that'd be taken care of. As far as allowing dragonsdirect access to the currentspellcrafting, this would create a balance problem in that bipeds would not be able to compete. Bipeds would get the skills as is while dragons effectivelly would have each skill +1 per level due to the quests available. I do think we should have some equivelent classes to make us on par with bipeds in this, particularly on our crafting skills trhat only dragons can use (scalecrafting and the like).

One other thing I thought of on this. Once laircrafting is in place, some of the new events where crafters are reqired could now require both biped and dragon crafted resources to complete. Also eventually maybe make some more exotic plot buildingsand liar rooms that may require a few extra resources from both groups (a plot buiilding like this should predominatelly be made by bipeds with some dragon resources, as a lair room predominatelly laircrafting with a few biped made resources).

[Balthizar]

I love the way lairs look happy to be geting one after omost two years. But Dragon is right we geting it in the ars again with str power and diffently dex and focus again. Puting Dragon crafting on the spot light in this is a very bad thing as we only get 8+1 points to scale crafting LOL. should at least look like Lair at 10 points then we could call it even. I know for a fact with my ped that after leveling 100 miner and 100 gather that all other crafting classes just come to like water. Realy fast realy easy. you only have to work that last 80 to 100 in them not to hard. And leveling Miner is alot like leveling dragon crafter for that matter only easer becouse you get the skill points. And pick up a story book and read it some time show me the book that takes a high level dragon party to kill one ped. No its always the high level ped party barly kills one dragon and most times the dragon is taking some one if not more with him. Hmmm wonder y that is diffently not a dragon form this game LOL. Well anyways we need a tooth and claw adv school and a primal adv school also lets not for get that. Realy whant the primal school bad need mulitcast *drolls* please I will happly pay double the goldrage for a multicast. well kk thats my two nothing cents thx you all :) Lairs do Look Awsome though even if it will take me another two years to build mine hehe :)

[Balthizar]

Ok after carefully looking at both crafting schools for dragons we can easly say dragoncrafting is general making scales and spells/making orbs and bars bricks what not so ya +5 stats for everything thats seems fair. But now Lair crafting yes dos kind of do the same thing bars bricks gems orbs and now also crysals. It even looks to me that the main focus of Lair crafting is FOCUS. Dragons are focusing crystals and primal energes inmass here. So it would be easly said that 8 to 9 points in focus a level would not be so far reaching with all the focusing of primal magics that lairshaping the main ideal that is Laircrafting. Thats my two nothing cents again:) Just did not whant to say that something is broken and not offer up a ideal to fix it.

Also I would like to add that all the Dev team is doing a wonderfull job fixing things and doing a wonderfull job Making being a dragon something fun to do again. Thx you all that is on the Dev team.

Balthizar Drako