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Thread: Dragons: What are they?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx

    So, what are dragons?
    Flying treasure burning beasts...
    Who are strong, but take away the hoard abilities and he's the weakest character in this game.
    Make Silverstrike, Goldrage and all that other stuff free as it should be for the extremely low hit percentage I used to get and only keep Shield of Gold as a hoard costing ability...
    Then we are even to multiclassed bipeds, except for hp...
    Ow well you cannot have everything... [:P]
    Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
    Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
    Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
    Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools

  2. #42

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    what do you mean preserve your character?
    When do you go adventuring, to you see your experience and level goes down as you fight? No.

    Dragons do. It's called hoard burning. You fight, you lose level. If you're lucky, you'll get enough to balance it. To the opposite to biped, dragon can lose gained level.
    Dragon Lairs: Istaria's ghetto

  3. #43

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    and yet dragons can take down 180+ rated bi-peds.

    you cannot argue a dragon being weak with 0 hoard, is there a single one that has 0 hoard? a new hatchy, but once it figures out what hoard is for and sees it drop everywhere it wont be 0 for very long.
    Sure. Take a 180 powerleveled biped with no experience with its class, and a dragon wasting all of his hoard.

    But on a fair, winning fight, nope, dragons can't win.
    Remember to be a winner, you have to gain something. If you end up with less than what you started with, you lose.
    Dragon Lairs: Istaria's ghetto

  4. #44

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    how much hoard do you have dragoniade? just curious.
    torvos: shadow/chaos shard (on vacation)
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  5. #45

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonboy
    Flying treasure burning beasts...
    Who are strong, but take away the hoard abilities and he's the weakest character in this game.
    Make Silverstrike, Goldrage and all that other stuff free as it should be for the extremely low hit percentage I used to get and only keep Shield of Gold as a hoard costing ability...
    Then we are even to multiclassed bipeds, except for hp...
    That's not true ... there's absolutely no reason to take away hoard abilities when evaluating a dragon. The amaount of hoard required to use your abilities can be neglected compared to the frequency of hoard item dropsand I honestlyknow of no dragon ever running out of hoard. Not only have hoard itemsa very high drop ratebut dragons usually have accumulated quite an amount of hoard with crafting or hunting that would probably be enough to fight every day and night for half a year.

    If you do not like system of hoard-abilities itself just say it but don't try to portray it as some kind of problem or even weakness for a dragon character.

    If you wanna see Goldstrike, Silverstrike, Drainstrike etc. for free, then perhaps you should be prepared to get it with the same timer and shared timers as bipeds do with their special strikes. Goldstrike ... 15 secs, Silverstrike 30 secs, Drainstrike 30 secs with no shared timers and the same is true for allother abilities... and then on the other hand Critical Strike ...5 mins, Multistrike ... 2 mins, Cleave ... 2 mins and sharing timers with other abilities.

    And low hit percentage??? Your strikes use your stats, skills and your brains the same way as with bipeds. I am just a Helian focused on Primal and I almost never miss a strike. Use your training points, scale techs and tactics well and so will you. Bipeds will have to do the same! Try pulling a mob with Grazing Winds, when it closes in give him a Tail Whip and while it is stunned follow through withGold Rage and if still alive with Silver Strikeand Ravage. I would be surprised if any of your strikes should miss their mark. Must be a really powerful foe if it survives such an attack. A 120th level Fyakki will not. Further keep an eye at your combat window for foes using dwarven toughness, hardened shell, foresight, etc. and make sure you give spiritists, conjurers, monks etc. a careful slap first to get rid of their protective abilities before bringing your more powerful strikes to bear and you will rarely miss your mark and waste your hoard [:)]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    Sure. Take a 180 powerleveled biped with no experience with its class, and a dragon wasting all of his hoard.

    But on a fair, winning fight, nope, dragons can't win.
    Remember to be a winner, you have to gain something. If you end up with less than what you started with, you lose.
    You don't know what you're speaking about. When you assume the same level of skill and do not take extraorinary good or bad luckinto account a dragontakes outany bipedin no time. The exceptionmay beranger and some special combinations of very highly multiclassed bipeds, but chances will neverbe worse than 50:50.

    You have a very bad attitude towards your dragon character and you sound as if you haven't left your cave for quite some time to seehow dragons havedeveloped over the last year. They are among the most powerful and versatile characters in game. Just go out hunting with those 180+ bipeds and you will experience firsthand.

    And more dragon content has been announced ...

    - Narkano

  6. #46

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjl
    how much hoard do you have dragoniade? just curious.
    About 9 millions and trying to 'save' it until I reach 25 millions.

    People make me laughes when they say hoard drop way too much and are easy to get.

    Hoard would be perfect IF they were automatically dropping to every combat you fought.
    When you need to spend 300 days to reach level 100 in hoard, IF you don't use your hoard abilities at all, when other classes can take less than a month, there's some imbalance somewhere.

    I went hunting with a biped the other day. In 1 hour, we collected about 400K hoard. That biped could aggro and kill every of the mobs in the area before I could even cast my first barrages of spells.

    I went back the next day, solo. I could barely get 100'000 in 2 hours because there's was no way I could do the same withouth burning hoard. And in such situation, don't tell me to uses hoard. When you're trying to gain hoard, you don't consume it.

    Balanced you says? If so, The results should have been the same.
    Dragon Lairs: Istaria's ghetto

  7. #47

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkano
    You don't know what you're speaking about. When you assume the same level of skill and do not take extraorinary good or bad luckinto account a dragontakes outany bipedin no time. The exceptionmay beranger and some special combinations of very highly multiclassed bipeds, but chances will neverbe worse than 50:50.

    You have a very bad attitude towards your dragon character and you sound as if you haven't left your cave for quite some time to seehow dragons havedeveloped over the last year. They are among the most powerful and versatile characters in game. Just go out hunting with those 180+ bipeds and you will experience firsthand.

    And more dragon content has been announced ...
    - Narkano
    I've been level 100 for some time, and I,ve seen how staled dragon are.
    I'm balanced about at 60% primal and 40% TnC. And I don't do 2000 damage with my Gold rage.

    I've seen the change over the year, and personally, it sucks. All of our best abilities went on a pay roll. rather than fix our imbalance, they nerf it by making it stronger, but with a huge cost.

    Hoard abilities went high, but hoard drop has remain the same.
    Rather than give use more things to do, to work for, they give use 2-3 abilities that are targeted to a single faction, and which in the end , make you work more for nothing.

    I've been hunting with level 180 players, and guess what, they owned the battlefield. Dragon got no way for crowd control. No way to give themselves emergency heal. They have to rely on those biped if something goes bad.

    Tulga need to finish the dragon, and ALL their faction, before they,ll be considered finishes. Spells are lacking versatility, and are simply the slowest of them all. We're still waiting for Gold Surge after 1 year. Even there, 75% of the abilities are still TnC based.
    Yes, there's ONLY one type of powerful dragon. If you don't choose that style and decide not to make a clone of every other dragons, then you're screwed.

    Dragon Vs level 180? Sure. I leave it all to luck to the first who manage to hit a stun on the other. Otherwise, a quick banish armor and multistrike and then, bye bye dragon. WHen you take 2 player, and one can do 4 time your damage, fully self heal and own a complete set of buff, the one with the basic attribute is left with nothing.

    As for the Content, what content? Lairs? Look at what the Dev are doing to it. Sure, esthetically, they're going to look great, and it should after waiting 2 years. But look at the actual work: moving, moving ,moving. 4 ressource per item, a cargo disk holding 1 item only, 4 ressources spread over the world. What lair crafting will be resumed at is :60% flying here and there, 35% digging, and 5% of actual item creation. I sooo love spending my time flying around.

    As for adventuring, in case you were in your cave too, they've canceled Ancient advancement school. So you're stuck with your level 100 dragon that cannot improve itself for another 2 years. Unless they've posted something lately (they've been really quiet and not answering dragons lately) and I have missed it
    Dragon Lairs: Istaria's ghetto

  8. #48

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade

    Sure. Take a 180 powerleveled biped with no experience with its class, and a dragon wasting all of his hoard.
    Whoa... man you have no idea what you just said there...

    I might have to log in to tell that bi-ped (who is well respected in Chaos) what an "annoynomous" and I will not give your name, player said about you.

    Maybe you think that way because you yourself do not know how to use your character, and like every one of your other arguements, thus means no one can use it well.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    People make me laughes when they say hoard drop way too much and are easy to get.
    learn to hunt correctly and you will find out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    Hoard would be perfect IF they were automatically dropping to every combat you fought.
    easier to get than it already is? I almost feel like it does drop every battle, I rarely see a ratio of 1/8-1/10 fights without roayl hoard from a T5 mob, and asa berserker when I have to rage and use a handful of other abilities to match a dragon and then suck for a period of time when you can just go back out and do it againit doesn't take very long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    When you need to spend 300 days to reach level 100 in hoard, IF you don't use your hoard abilities at all, when other classes can take less than a month, there's some imbalance somewhere.
    most dragons manage well with incomplete hoard, it's not a a life or death thing, only battle it will impact is with a named. and again you fail to realize that with full hoard of over year, a bi-ped with 8 100s or more that has been working about the same amount of time, can still lose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    I went hunting with a biped the other day. In 1 hour, we collected about 400K hoard. That biped could aggro and kill every of the mobs in the area before I could even cast my first barrages of spells.
    havn't we talked about how dragons can't mass kill? and what mobs where you fighting, and when you couldn't cast your spell I bet it doesn't happen everytime just because the bi-ped will have to use a few extra abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    I went back the next day, solo. I could barely get 100'000 in 2 hours because there's was no way I could do the same withouth burning hoard. And in such situation, don't tell me to uses hoard. When you're trying to gain hoard, you don't consume it.
    #1 50k an hour on average isn't half bad but if you don't dedicate your time to gaining it I can understand why you would say it needs to drop more, like if I didn't dedicate most of my time to lvling another class, I would come here and say it's to hard and I'm to lazy and under driven to do it. #2 I heard Gold Rage used 640 hoard or something like that if you ask me the timer should be a minute with hoard value of 1000. That way one royal bell which you can get tons of those in a day can fuel 6 of them. But that would make things to hard wouldn't it? and wheres a hint too, that most dragons use and I'm willing to share with you, you could also go to Trandlar and mass kill those golems and get sooo much lil hoard it will equal or surpass a day of hunting T5 hoard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    Balanced you says? If so, The results should have been the same.
    I think it's balanced, it's obvious you don't understand what a dragon is and how to use it, so while looking at that point of view I can understand how you think it's not balanced, because it's not convenient to you.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    You do have a point that dragons who want to master spellcasting are poorly designed. The reason they are poorly designed is because a spellcasting dragon still has those awesome melee attacks too. To give them excellent spell offense would probably be too much. It seems tulga has shown that they intend to make dragon a hybrid class, one that is primarily T&C and casts spells on the side. which is a shame since their own lore states dragons can make excellent warriors or mages.
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  11. #51

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    ...right there should be the primary split between dragons...

    Dragon Caster

    Dragon Warrior

  12. #52

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    ... currently Dragons are quite good with both.

    A dragon can choose for example a set of armor scales teched with health, primal and tooth & claw. He can distribute his training points roughly the same way about primal, tooth & claw and perhaps health again.

    That dragon is an excellent warrior having maximum armor for a dragon and dealing devastating melee damage to his foes while at the same timebeing able tochain cast tier 5 and 4 Tempest, Blast, Gust and Barrage all teched with (Accuracy)/Primal Damage/Critical Damage. All that while having Refreshing Breeze, Spiked Scales and Gold Shield up. Not to mention his many other abilities and his AoE breath weapon.

    This way they are better warriors than any biped and very good spellcasters with more AoE spells than even a mage. Perfect Spell and Multicast are the only things a dragon spellcaster is missing, since he cannot simply choose a school to master them. But who knows what the future may hold fordragons ...

    Of coursea dragon can also specialize more into one direction or the otherby choosing from strength/dexterity or power/focus instead of thesuggested stats/skills.

    And IF a dragon really wants toincrease hishoard and starts hunting for it, he cangather1 mio.a day by huntingand mass-killingtier 4 mobswithout spending any hoard in the process.Just choose yourself akind of mobthat cannot deal you any significant damage due to your armor. Use your Breeze spells and start killing them with your AoE spells. A little bit boring but quite effective. Once you've reachedyour chosenlevel of hoard it should at least stay at that level with your day to day fights due to the hoard items you can snatch up along the way.

    - Narkano

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    what do you mean preserve your character?
    I have over 210 in-game days worth of time invested in my Dragon toon. If I want a character with 1000 base Strength, for example, I have to throw that time investment away, roll a level 1 biped character, and start over. As a biped toon with an equivalent time investment, if I want a character with 1000 base Strength, I just go to a trainer, switch to a class that gives 10 Strength per level, and proceed to level it up. I don't lose all of my previous investment's capabilities, equipment, etc. In fact, it is a boon to help me get to that goal that much faster than starting over with a brand new character.

    It is a specious point, because I want to play a Dragon with the capabilities, not play a biped with the capabilities.

    why do dragons view bi-peds as beings that don't just stop, like your choice to play a dragon many of us choose not to multi-class.
    Some choose to stop. Some don't. The point is that it is a CHOICE. There is NO CHOICE when it comes to Dragon toons. You stop whether you want to or not.

    You always twist what you say in a way that makes you right, because for some reason you fail to see the other side of an arguement (typing that knowing full well you're going to post about it)
    Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? "You always twist what you say in a way that makes you right". I say the sky is blue. I say water is wet. I say ice is cold and fire is hot. Yes, I can see how I am twisting words to make it sound like I am right. [8-)] If stating facts and trying to be honest in a debate is so "twisted", what's the point in participating?

    What other side of the argument am I missing? How do you know for sure that it is not you that isn't seeing my side of the argument? Maybe I am right. Maybe I am wrong. Either way, we're not going to find out debating argument style and making silly comments like "you twist your words to make you right". I mean, come on.[*-)]

    It is kinda pointless to argue with someone about topics such as these when they stay on their opinion and always bend what they say so they are not wrong, Trovos has proven it in a post earlier, and you said in one about changes and crap, "Welcome to the life of MMO"
    It is kinda pointless to argue with someone and always attack the person instead of their arguments. Why don't you go look up the phrase "ad hominem"?.

    It's time we laid a door mat on your porch that reads "Welcome to HZ" if you havn't figured out that TG Never tells anyone a reason why they usally change stuff, then you're lost and might as well quit. I can't figure out why you would stay if you dislike almost every aspec of your character aside from the fact that it is a dragon.
    Because you don't have a clue about what I like and dislike about the game and my character? Because you don't CARE to know, and would just simply like to attack someone for their views, rather than attack the views themselves? Beats me, but you can take your doormat and wear it as a hat for all I care at this point. It won't change my opinion or actions one iota.

    I would have to say, with your extreame dislike of a Devs not speaking to you only makes you come to forums which are public and have very few devs actually post from time to time, then it's not that big a deal.
    To clarify to make your point accurate: extreme dislike of devs not speaking enough period. Doesn't matter if it is me. Doesn't matter if it is you.

    If you quit over it, it would be a big deal, because they lost players, just comming to forums and complaining while still paying them aint going to change anything. But even if you leave there are newbs replacing you and others all the time so it would quickly be channeled out.
    If I quit over it, I wouldn't be here anymore. To me, quitting this game means I am gone. Unlike some people who quit and haunt the forums long after, trolling and making a general nuisance of themselves, if I press the cancel button, I am gone. Because, you see, at that point I will have lost any real voice to speak to the developers (or anyone else in the game, for that matter), asking for anything. I know of few businesses that listen to and heed critiques or suggestions from non-customers over those of current customers. Least of all, ex-customers. The smart ones listen to their customers while they still are customers because, once they become ex-customers, they are not likely to become customers again.

    Two choices now,

    #1. Stay and complain for a lossing cause, regardless if they change it now or not I doubt the 2% of Dragons who are ramrodding this arguement will have influenced it.

    #2. Quit, this game is going down the hole so fast I doubt it will chug along another year.
    #3. Continue doing what I believe is right, regardless of silly limited-path choice lists from others who don't care to know or understand other peoples' points of view enough to realize that there are other choices.

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    and yet dragons can take down 180+ rated bi-peds.
    ..and yet Dragons can be taken down by 180+ rated bipeds. Easily. Regularly. So?

    you cannot argue a dragon being weak with 0 hoard, is there a single one that has 0 hoard? a new hatchy, but once it figures out what hoard is for and sees it drop everywhere it wont be 0 for very long.
    It doesn't have to be 0 to be considered "weak". One million hoard is only ~L50 cap.

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkano
    And low hit percentage??? Your strikes use your stats, skills and your brains the same way as with bipeds. I am just a Helian focused on Primal and I almost never miss a strike. Use your training points, scale techs and tactics well and so will you. Bipeds will have to do the same! Try pulling a mob with Grazing Winds, when it closes in give him a Tail Whip and while it is stunned follow through withGold Rage and if still alive with Silver Strikeand Ravage. I would be surprised if any of your strikes should miss their mark. Must be a really powerful foe if it survives such an attack. A 120th level Fyakki will not. Further keep an eye at your combat window for foes using dwarven toughness, hardened shell, foresight, etc. and make sure you give spiritists, conjurers, monks etc. a careful slap first to get rid of their protective abilities before bringing your more powerful strikes to bear and you will rarely miss your mark and waste your hoard [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]
    I am also a Helian focused on Primal, but most of the time wear T&C-teched Armor scales with Strength techs as I tend to melee, since I kill significantly faster with T&C than can with our lousy spell line. I miss on attacks against even-con mobs about 33-50% of the time. I pull with Reach, Snarl, and/or Grazing Winds. I Tail Swipe, if it is available, otherwise I just hit them a few times with normal attacks, or use Gust/Barrage if there is more than 1 mob, in hopes Vengeance will go off (for melee mobs). Depending on the mob, I will try to reserve Gold Rage/Silver Strike/Ravage for when it appears I am hitting with normal attacks or the lesser specials, and doing normal damage again. Problem is, with some mobs, that is quite a long time to wait, and means that, with multiple mobs, I can have a significant chance of dying.

    With low base stats/skills, it means that I can't fight even-con monsters very effectively to hit over and above their buffs. If I had 1000 base T&C, and 1000 base Strength, I could strike them before their buffs ran out, and still have a decent chance to hit them and/or do decent damage. That's not taking into account debuffs. Debuffs cripple a Dragon. -100 in a stat is a serious blow to us. Fighting shamans (for example, Blood Skulk Soothsayers) makes for a LONG fight. Between their debuffs, expulse, heals, and stuns, I'm lucky to get out of a fight with a single one with half my hp. If I get an add, like a Bloodmage, I'm toast, unless I get very lucky. I'd say that I only ace even-con mobs with GR about 10-25% of the time, usually because the Misty Topaz procs. I rarely see the 1000+hp strikes with GR, and only against very specific mobs, and only when the MT procs (and I am not debuffed).

    When you assume the same level of skill and do not take extraorinary good or bad luckinto account a dragontakes outany bipedin no time. The exceptionmay beranger and some special combinations of very highly multiclassed bipeds, but chances will neverbe worse than 50:50.
    I went into the arena for a while with some others who had not been in it much. We all were learning how to overcome each others' tactics and abilities. There were some that I just couldn't beat, no matter what I did, once they figured out a good set of tactics to exploit my weaknesses. To be fair, there were some there who couldn't use what they had in their current class to take me down (or hadn't yet figured out the right set of tactics to do so). I don't have the large ability set to draw from to find a good ability/tactic set to fight every biped ability/tactic combo, so there are going to be some who will be able to regularly beat me. The arena is a playground though, it doesn't mean anything to the rest of the game, but it does illustrate some of the issues I face as a Dragon in a general sense.

    They are among the most powerful and versatile characters in game. Just go out hunting with those 180+ bipeds and you will experience firsthand.
    Powerful? Potentially, maybe. However, having a lot of power doesn't mean anything unless you are able to effectively and regularly deliver it when it is important to do so. I don't think we're all that versatile, however. I've experienced firsthand what it is like with R180+ bipeds. A lot of it depends on what we fight, like anything else, but if I we were to have a Legolas/Gimli friendly competition of kill counting, I think I'd end up being Gimli. [;)]

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  16. #56
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    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjl
    You do have a point that dragons who want to master spellcasting are poorly designed. The reason they are poorly designed is because a spellcasting dragon still has those awesome melee attacks too. To give them excellent spell offense would probably be too much. It seems tulga has shown that they intend to make dragon a hybrid class, one that is primarily T&C and casts spells on the side. which is a shame since their own lore states dragons can make excellent warriors or mages.
    Problem is, when we chose our paths, the Helians got (and continue to get) the short end of the stick. All the Primal bonuses in the world aren't going to make up for a lousy spell line. Without the T&C bonuses (first from RoP, and now from ARoP, around +70 total, not including the Lunus crystal proc), it tends to make a significant impact in our melee ability.

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

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  17. #57

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    The primal spell line is not lousy. In fact, I can think of at least three other spell lines that are much worse. primal gets debuff, buff, heal over time, a bolt, and some really good AoE.

    If anything, there needs to be more primal spells that are high damage and on a longer timer, that is not AoE. That is really all that is missing.

    The only reason primal sucks right now for dragons is, like you said, there are no bonuses for it, and you cannot choose from the beginning to focus only on spells (without gimping yourself of some much needed offense).

    tulga screwed up. factions or something like factions should have made the split more defined back when adult and hoard draining abilities were introduced. That way the caster dragons are power/focus oriented, and melee can go T&C and the melee stats.
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  18. #58

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharcellus
    I am also a Helian focused on Primal, but most of the time wear T&C-teched Armor scales with Strength techs as I tend to melee, since I kill significantly faster with T&C than can with our lousy spell line. I miss on attacks against even-con mobs about 33-50% of the time. I pull with Reach, Snarl, and/or Grazing Winds. I Tail Swipe, if it is available, otherwise I just hit them a few times with normal attacks, or use Gust/Barrage if there is more than 1 mob, in hopes Vengeance will go off (for melee mobs). Depending on the mob, I will try to reserve Gold Rage/Silver Strike/Ravage for when it appears I am hitting with normal attacks or the lesser specials, and doing normal damage again. Problem is, with some mobs, that is quite a long time to wait, and means that, with multiple mobs, I can have a significant chance of dying.

    With low base stats/skills, it means that I can't fight even-con monsters very effectively to hit over and above their buffs. If I had 1000 base T&C, and 1000 base Strength, I could strike them before their buffs ran out, and still have a decent chance to hit them and/or do decent damage. That's not taking into account debuffs. Debuffs cripple a Dragon. -100 in a stat is a serious blow to us. Fighting shamans (for example, Blood Skulk Soothsayers) makes for a LONG fight. Between their debuffs, expulse, heals, and stuns, I'm lucky to get out of a fight with a single one with half my hp. If I get an add, like a Bloodmage, I'm toast, unless I get very lucky. I'd say that I only ace even-con mobs with GR about 10-25% of the time, usually because the Misty Topaz procs. I rarely see the 1000+hp strikes with GR, and only against very specific mobs, and only when the MT procs (and I am not debuffed).

    Hmm strange ... I rarely miss with any of myattacks against no kind of mob not even againstthose of 120th level. I also have only a few more misses against those nasty Purple Necroflies. I also do not remember ever missing a strike against a foe stunned by my Tail Whip. I am focused on Primal and T&C at the same time. Both at maximum with training points and scale techs. No strength or dexterity.

    Debuffs were the most dire threat to a dragon's lifebefore primal spells could be techedto purify. Now you can have True Grit, Promote Vitality, the three Breezes and the three Wards teched with Cleansing. Makes sure you have the means to get rid of nasty debuffs rather quickly.

    Bloodskulks are almost always 1-hit-kills for a dragon, especially those ******** soothsayers. But WA shamans may prove a problem if encountered unprepared or with some of your abilities still recycling and you don't get them killed with 1-3 quick strikes. But I think that's aproblem not just for a dragon but also for every biped.

    And when fighting mobs like indestructable fyakkis with hardened shellsave your Refreshing Breeze and Spiked Scales and justbeat each of them hard in a row first.Then while waiting for your strikes to do normal damage againit's a good time to call upon yoursaved abilitiesand follow with all your primal AoE spells. Nice to keep the bunch occupied and yourself alive. When your abilities start to expire so do their hardened shelland they're near death already.Just need another slap to die. Together with Gold Shield that's enoughto kill6-7 of those fyakkis. Or 20-25 purple spiders and gruoks for example.

    I think dragons were never meant to be only true warriors or true spellcasters. They are some kind of hybrid combining both paths.To be honest Ialso could neither imagine agreat dragon that just casts spells and cannotuse itsmighty claws to also deal some devastating damage nor a dragon just doing damage and not having it's very own kind of magic. [:)]

    - Narkano

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkano
    Hmm strange ... I rarely miss with any of myattacks against no kind of mob not even againstthose of 120th level. I also have only a few more misses against those nasty Purple Necroflies. I also do not remember ever missing a strike against a foe stunned by my Tail Whip. I am focused on Primal and T&C at the same time. Both at maximum with training points and scale techs. No strength or dexterity.
    *shrug* I do. I can PM you some of my combat logs if you want. I have missed numerous times against mobs after tail swiping them. Stun does not lower evasion to zero, it only prevents Block, Parry, and Dodge.

    Debuffs were the most dire threat to a dragon's lifebefore primal spells could be techedto purify. Now you can have True Grit, Promote Vitality, the three Breezes and the three Wards teched with Cleansing. Makes sure you have the means to get rid of nasty debuffs rather quickly.
    Aye, it helps, but the number of debuffs that Shamans can continually throw on you, coupled with the percentage of removal for single-teched Cleanse means you spend most of your time casting purifying spells instead of doing damage to the mob, assuming you aren't stunned out of your gourd from Thunder Cloud, Bind Weapon, etc.

    Bloodskulks are almost always 1-hit-kills for a dragon, especially those ******** soothsayers. But WA shamans may prove a problem if encountered unprepared or with some of your abilities still recycling and you don't get them killed with 1-3 quick strikes. But I think that's aproblem not just for a dragon but also for every biped.
    Like I said, 10-25% of the time can I ace them. It happens, just not very often. Recycling abilities usually makes it harder, but generally just tends to lower the kills per unit time rate, since I tend to wait for some of them to recycle. It's not a problem for all bipeds, no.

    And when fighting mobs like indestructable fyakkis with hardened shellsave your Refreshing Breeze and Spiked Scales and justbeat each of them hard in a row first.Then while waiting for your strikes to do normal damage againit's a good time to call upon yoursaved abilitiesand follow with all your primal AoE spells. Nice to keep the bunch occupied and yourself alive. When your abilities start to expire so do their hardened shelland they're near death already.Just need another slap to die. Together with Gold Shield that's enoughto kill6-7 of those fyakkis. Or 20-25 purple spiders and gruoks for example.
    Yep. I know how to fight fyakki and bugs.

    I rarely, if ever use Shield of Gold. It's just too draining on the hoard. Regular use of it sends my hoard into a tailspin, even with all the hoardables I get. Thus, only when I fight certain nameds, or a large group of T5/T6 mobs will I ever use it. I certainly can't do 6-7 T6 or 20-25 T5 mobs with it.


    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Dragons: What are they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    learn to hunt correctly and you will find out.
    LOL. Coming from someone who never played a dragon, those word are the lamer's excuses.
    Those who say 'learn to hunt correctly' are the first to show how clueless they area about a race and a fighting way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    easier to get than it already is? I almost feel like it does drop every battle, I rarely see a ratio of 1/8-1/10 fights without roayl hoard from a T5 mob, and as a berserker when I have to rage and use a handful of other abilities to match a dragon and then suck for a period of time when you can just go back out and do it again it doesn't take very long.
    Invert the number and you'll get a more real number. oh. And farming 10 wolves and counting this as 1 out of 10 doesn't count. Dragons can't farm like a biped can, and dragon has no way to improve themselves to that level. You say you have to rage yourself to match a dragon? make me laugh. Dragon has to trigger their rage to do any damage and it cost them hoard. You can do it for free. So you want me to cry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    most dragons manage well with incomplete hoard, it's not a a life or death thing, only battle it will impact is with a named. and again you fail to realize that with full hoard of over year, a bi-ped with 8 100s or more that has been working about the same amount of time, can still lose.
    Wow! That is soo stupid. Let me say it, biped way. 'Most biped manage it with incomplete level' Make sense? No. Thought so.

    Dragon need hoard to RAISE THEIR ARMOR AND BREATH WEAPON. Did you know that? No? Doesn't surprise me from someone who doesn't play a dragon. Go hunt without your armor and let me know how good you are.

    And leveling hoard doesn't give you the skills and bonus that leveling 8 classes to 100 give you, far from it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    havn't we talked about how dragons can't mass kill? and what mobs where you fighting, and when you couldn't cast your spell I bet it doesn't happen everytime just because the bi-ped will have to use a few extra abilities.
    We all know dragons are poor at farming. Then why are you constantly comparing dragon with farming biped.
    Hoard is easy to get... when FARMING.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    #1 50k an hour on average isn't half bad but if you don't dedicate your time to gaining it I can understand why you would say it needs to drop more, like if I didn't dedicate most of my time to lvling another class, I would come here and say it's to hard and I'm to lazy and under driven to do it. #2 I heard Gold Rage used 640 hoard or something like that if you ask me the timer should be a minute with hoard value of 1000. That way one royal bell which you can get tons of those in a day can fuel 6 of them. But that would make things to hard wouldn't it? and wheres a hint too, that most dragons use and I'm willing to share with you, you could also go to Trandlar and mass kill those golems and get sooo much lil hoard it will equal or surpass a day of hunting T5 hoard.
    50k an hour IS bad when your ability cost you 600 per attack, rezing someone cost you 10% of that, and you're trying to level up.

    And listen to yourself. If I were to follow your thinking, we should simply have battle give ZERO EXPERIENCE too. Hoard is there to raise your HOARD level and fuel your attack. You're telling us we shouldn't only get what we need to sustain it. Sorry dragon hater, that's not an option. We get attack we need to pay to use your berserker get for free. Are you jealous of dragon or what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribunal
    I think it's balanced, it's obvious you don't understand what a dragon is and how to use it, so while looking at that point of view I can understand how you think it's not balanced, because it's not convenient to you.
    I do understand what a dragon is: An incomplete race that biped like yourself don't want to be par with them, from hate and jealousy. Start playing one, then tell me how it feel. Until then, get down from your paper pedestal. You aren't king of this game.

    Oh wait, I forgot you quit. Troll.
    Dragon Lairs: Istaria's ghetto

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