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Thread: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

  1. #41

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade

    That's human nature. Because dragon aren't looking like an human in shape, the DEVs are being racist (or more precisely, specism) to dragons.
    ROFLMAO

    sorry sorry, that just sounds so silly [:P]
    "I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?"
    Death thought about it. "Cats," he said eventually. "Cats are nice." Terry Pratchett, Sourcery

  2. #42

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitimandiri

    ROFLMAO

    sorry sorry, that just sounds so silly [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-4.gif[/img]
    Silly, maybe. But sadly, very true.
    Dragon Lairs: Istaria's ghetto

  3. #43

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005


    Well I have no problem with the new crafting systems as long as:

    Dragoncrafter primary: Spellcraft & Scalecraft

    Lairshaper Primary: Lairshaping & Crystalshaping

    For the biped classes with the exception of one or 2 it is easy to designate a single primary. But since dragon crafting classes are kind of generically lumped together it would be wrong to single out one as the only experience getter.
    100 Adventure/Crafter following the path of Helian

    Expert Lairshaper
    Grand hall complete.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]dorrin wrote:
    yeah. god forbid we should have the same advantage bipeds have had all this time...


    That's human nature. Because dragon aren't looking like an human in shape, the DEVs are being racist (or more precisely, specism) to dragons.
    Racism does not apply to imaginary creatures. Period.

    Using such a hate-laden word to refer something that is something as so.. superficial as an online game is just blatant trolling.

    ~Mirsathia

  5. #45

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Goriax
    If you just want to level laircrafter, and if your dragon crafting is 100, just grind mithril bars. If you decide to do tier IV stuff instead then you don't even need to fool with crafting scales of course.

    At least that's how it's working on Blight right now. I was hoping they'd fix that before it got live. Naturally they should fix biped schools at the same time.

    They don't need to fix this. They need to leave it as is. There should be no reason to NOT be able to lvl lairshaping from processing.
    "Sarcasm! Just one more of the FREE services I offer."

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirsathia

    Racism does not apply to imaginary creatures. Period.

    Using such a hate-laden word to refer something that is something as so.. superficial as an online game is just blatant trolling.
    It's only a hate-laden word to those who load it down with hate.

    Speaking of things I "hate". Politically Correct redefinitions of words to add stupid things like "hate" to words that have been around long before most people who redefine them were even born.

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005



    nevertheless that doesn't make the original accusation any less ludicrous
    PersonalJustice the Demon Slayer - Chaos

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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharcellus
    [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Mirsathia wrote:

    Racism does not apply to imaginary creatures. Period.

    Using such a hate-laden word to refer something that is something as so.. superficial as an online game is just blatant trolling.


    It's only a hate-laden word to those who load it down with hate.

    Speaking of things I "hate". Politically Correct redefinitions of words to add stupid things like "hate" to words that have been around long before most people who redefine them were even born.

    Wow. That's such an incredibly moronic statement that I really have no idea how to respond.

    ~Mirsathia

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ

    nevertheless that doesn't make the original accusation any less ludicrous
    ..and you will note that I DID NOT CLAIM such, either.

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirsathia
    [img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Pharcellus wrote:[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Mirsathia wrote:

    Racism does not apply to imaginary creatures. Period.

    Using such a hate-laden word to refer something that is something as so.. superficial as an online game is just blatant trolling.


    It's only a hate-laden word to those who load it down with hate.

    Speaking of things I "hate". Politically Correct redefinitions of words to add stupid things like "hate" to words that have been around long before most people who redefine them were even born.




    Wow. That's such an incredibly moronic statement that I really have no idea how to respond.
    No more moronic than ASSuming that every use of the word "racist" is somehow equivalent to "hate speech", so bite me.

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Please not another Pharcellus Mirsanthia fight, pleeeease [:'(]

    Dragons and Bipeds are different, end of story. If you aren't satisfied or having fun playing your race/class play something you DO enjoy.

    How how how on earth can Devs "hate" dragons. Their job is tomake a game for people to enjoy and have fun playing. I have a hard time believing they are out to get us.
    "I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worthwhile?"
    Death thought about it. "Cats," he said eventually. "Cats are nice." Terry Pratchett, Sourcery

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    That's because you're reading into what Dragoniade said the same Politically-Correct bullshit that Mirsathia is.

    Take off the PC-colored glasses, and you will see that what he is saying is that, because the devs are humans, and they know humans better than they know Dragons, they are more likely to do better with what they know than what they do not.

    I severely doubt he was saying that the devs "have it in" for Dragons. It's simply an observation of innocent ignorance, not a malicious description of hate. If I'm wrong, then I invite him to correct me.

    But, then again, some people just can't see past their cultural conditioning to try and understand what someone is saying. That's why it is one of my pet peeves.

    Erus Ex Universitas -- Erus Ex Istaria Guild Home

    1. Fix what is broken. -- 2. Finish what is not complete. -- 3. Start something new.

  13. #53

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Given that

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    That's human nature. Because dragon aren't looking like an human in shape, the DEVs are being racist (or more precisely, specism) to dragons.
    was said in response to

    yeah. god forbid we should have the same advantage bipeds have had all this time...
    my initial interpretation that Dragoniade does indeed believe the devs have it in for dragons as they're denying a "benefit" to Dragon multiclassing that biped multiclassing has previously enjoyed.Regardless of whether the change is made to all craft classes.
    PersonalJustice the Demon Slayer - Chaos

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  14. #54

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    my initial interpretation that Dragoniade does indeed believe the devs have it in for dragons as they're denying a "benefit" to Dragon multiclassing that biped multiclassing has previously enjoyed.Regardless of whether the change is made to all craft classes.
    Kind of. What I mean Is that a lot of people (human) like to put down every other creature, real or imaginary, because they have in their mind that they are 'perfect'. They are made to the image of the perfection (call it god or whatever). With that in mind, everything they create HAS to be inferior to them in one way or another.

    Dragon has to die in movies, good or bad.
    Aliens are always evils; there is no such thing as a good alien.

    This may be a game, but when you take a look at everything non-human in literacy, movies and other games, the human nature has it it's always the human that are the center of the universe.

    And it's not any different here, just has some of the fight shows us. Those defending or playing dragons are usually the most open minded, more extraverted than those. On the other hand, those who show such hate toward dragon payers clearly still believe human is the supreme race and should rule everything, while some just do it to watch people go at each other throats..

    Call it racism, call it specism, call it ingratitude, call it whatever you want. But some people will not accept that there may be any other sentient and more intellignent species than their.

    And I won't play politically correct here, nor anywhere else.
    Otherwise, we'll have to rename the race.
    Select your race:
    The Vertically Challenged
    The Scaled Heat Challenged
    The Fluffy Water Challenged
    The Skin Colour Challenged
    The Power Challenged

    Seriously
    Dragon Lairs: Istaria's ghetto

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniade
    [img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]PJ wrote:
    my initial interpretation that Dragoniade does indeed believe the devs have it in for dragons as they're denying a "benefit" to Dragon multiclassing that biped multiclassing has previously enjoyed.Regardless of whether the change is made to all craft classes.


    Kind of. What I mean Is that a lot of people (human) like to put down every other creature, real or imaginary, because they have in their mind that they are 'perfect'. They are made to the image of the perfection (call it god or whatever). With that in mind, everything they create HAS to be inferior to them in one way or another.

    Dragon has to die in movies, good or bad.
    Aliens are always evils; there is no such thing as a good alien.

    This may be a game, but when you take a look at everything non-human in literacy, movies and other games, the human nature has it it's always the human that are the center of the universe.

    And it's not any different here, just has some of the fight shows us. Those defending or playing dragons are usually the most open minded, more extraverted than those. On the other hand, those who show such hate toward dragon payers clearly still believe human is the supreme race and should rule everything, while some just do it to watch people go at each other throats..

    Call it racism, call it specism, call it ingratitude, call it whatever you want. But some people will not accept that there may be any other sentient and more intellignent species than their.

    And I won't play politically correct here, nor anywhere else.
    Otherwise, we'll have to rename the race.
    Select your race:
    The Vertically Challenged
    The Scaled Heat Challenged
    The Fluffy Water Challenged
    The Skin Colour Challenged
    The Power Challenged

    Seriously
    Sorry, Drag. All you sound like is the African American in line at a store who's always waiting breathlessly for the chance to accuse a white person of 'racism' for every imagined slight that they percieve.

    You ARE right, broadly, about the speciesism thing -- that most humans unconcniously do consider themselves superior to any other form of life.

    However, this is a topic that's best brought up on some sort of Philosophy, Otherkin, or Therianthropy boards -- not a game like this. The dev's job is to give things to ALL of the players, not just cater to dragons because a couple people think dragons 'should' be superior and better than bipeds in every way.

    ~Mirsathia

  16. #56

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirsathia
    The dev's job is to give things to ALL of the players, not just cater to dragons because a couple people think dragons 'should' be superior and better than bipeds in every way.
    This isnt in response to just you Mirsathia, but to the general topic at hand. What you said just made this point come to mind is all.

    Remember that Racism/Speci-ism/Whatever you want to call it can go both ways, period. Thereare biped players that think the race/specie they play should be infinitely better than dragons. There are dragon players that think dragons should be infinitely better than bipeds. Both sides have their reasons, but it doesnt make any side more or less right.

    Do the devs have it out for dragons? I doubt it. If they did, dragons would continue living on biped plots indefinitely. If they did, there would still be hoard leak (I mean real hoard leak, not hoard abilities), dispite the complaining.

    Both sides tend to look to me like they are spiraling further and further into the depths of their racism/speci-ism/whatever you want to call it. Before you go calling the other side racist/speci-ist/whatever, make sure you arent being one yourself and becoming a hypocrite.

    Okay, that is all out of me. [:)]
    Denrath, Lunus Ancient of Order

  17. #57
    JorgNep
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    OK, back to the original topic at hand....

    [;)]

    The problem I would have with XP only coming from application of final products would be that dragons that do no own lairs yet could not proceed in that class at all unless they added resources to someone else's lair.

    If a person has two main characters they play and one is a biped with a plot and the other is a dragon without a lair (assuming one "plot" per account), the dragon is SOL.

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by JorgNep
    OK, back to the original topic at hand....

    [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]

    The problem I would have with XP only coming from application of final products would be that dragons that do no own lairs yet could not proceed in that class at all unless they added resources to someone else's lair.

    If a person has two main characters they play and one is a biped with a plot and the other is a dragon without a lair (assuming one "plot" per account), the dragon is SOL.

    So, this crafting change, let me get this straight..

    For construction guilds, they're planning for ONLY final application to give experience? What sense does that make? I mean--I can totally understand and see no xp being given to Lairshaping school for just making bricks/etc. But.. what about the final end products, before they're applied? It'd be using the Lairshaping/Crystalworking skill, right? Won't that give exp?

    Or am I totally off the mark there? Where's this crafting overhaul proposal, that I can read up on it? :o


    ~Mirsathia

  19. #59

    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    I presume, the exp would come from both applying lair materials, and manufacturing the specific construction resources, just not some of the intermediate resources (bricks/bars/orbs/gems)

    Also there is the possibility of having some sort of trainer quests to augment exp when there is no plot work to be found.
    PersonalJustice the Demon Slayer - Chaos

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  20. #60
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    Default Re: Dragon Lair Update: November 1, 2005

    Quote Originally Posted by Denrath
    [img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Mirsathia wrote:
    The dev's job is to give things to ALL of the players, not just cater to dragons because a couple people think dragons 'should' be superior and better than bipeds in every way.


    This isnt in response to just you Mirsathia, but to the general topic at hand. What you said just made this point come to mind is all.

    Remember that Racism/Speci-ism/Whatever you want to call it can go both ways, period. Thereare biped players that think the race/specie they play should be infinitely better than dragons. There are dragon players that think dragons should be infinitely better than bipeds. Both sides have their reasons, but it doesnt make any side more or less right.

    Do the devs have it out for dragons? I doubt it. If they did, dragons would continue living on biped plots indefinitely. If they did, there would still be hoard leak (I mean real hoard leak, not hoard abilities), dispite the complaining.

    Both sides tend to look to me like they are spiraling further and further into the depths of their racism/speci-ism/whatever you want to call it. Before you go calling the other side racist/speci-ist/whatever, make sure you arent being one yourself and becoming a hypocrite.

    Okay, that is all out of me. [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

    People are people everywhere, even when they're dragons. Heh.

    ~Mirsathia

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