Dragon Lair Update: November 13, 2005

[imported_Frith-Rae]

aye Tant, I agree with you - about the bugs.

I stand by what I posted earlier.

Here are some scheduling numbers for all of you arguing about wether there is Enough time or not in 11 days.

After the locations/communities/prices/sizes/whatever lists went up yesterday I went, and did my research last night to determine EXACTLY which lairs I wanted to bid on, in which order, based on preferences and ending times for the auctions (which are all ending in a 12 hour or so period, not over several days....)

It took me THREE HOURS to locate and judge JUST THE LAIRS RIGHT IN and OUTSIDE CHICONIS!

THREE HOURS!! FOR ONE CITY!!

Why so long - even kmowing where they were on my map already? Because of the STUPID way the list is arranged and the ******** NONSENSE in trying to find which lair is what coordinates in what community ....

Instead of oh, I don't know - calling say the 12 or so lairs in the immediate vincinity of Chiconis - say the "Chiconis" Community....they are divided up into about 4-5 communities of about 2-4 lairs apiece - with names such as "Helik", "Myzura" (or whatever), "Liak"...etc. *bangs head on keyboard*

Oh, and the Community names for htre lairs aren't in the lair windows yet.

Course "Harro" and "Brandon's Isle" and other city's in the game, and player towns, have lairs attached to their community that make them easier to find on the list of communities - and shutdown times.

But for whatever reason, the rest of the communities had no names that made much Sense in the area's they were in (Talfur or whatever for example, is the name of four lairs INSIDE Dralk town proper...)

So you need to be able to do this searching in windowed mode - because you have to look up positional numbers (not town names) - course the positions can vary by a few degrees on those last two numbers - so really its scanning fo rhte first three numbers in the first coordinate, checking the second coordinate, writing that down and making sure it matches up to what you're looking at. Then you THEN get the community name, figure out WHICH lairs belong to that community (and its not necessarily the ones closest to each other, or following any type of rule - for example the four inside Chiconis proper actaully belong to two different lair communities..go figure...), and THEN you can find the ending times.

So, it took me roughly three hours (minus some time to get something to drink, let the dogs out) of switching windows out with windows, searching, and writing down the information of JUST CHICONIS (and not even all the lairs around there, just the closest 12 or so).

Perhaps they could have given out the information in more easily found/interpreted/successful ways. Or perhaps patched in the lair community names for the lair windows last night to make that easier (much easier...I'm sure...). I sure hope those get patched in Today!

Or else everyone's gonna have to spend a LOT of time figuring out when lairs ending auction times are.

Sorry but this was rushed. Even if you think the timing is fine, if you're fine with two days notice and 11 days to bid - the fact is that lairs are bugged. The schools are bugged. We are NOT Going to be able to start building our lairs on the 28th unless something major happens (here's to hoping...).

I only hope we can start building by Xmas...

[Pharcellus]

Then evaluate locationusing any other criteria which suits you.

Duh. Yeah, I plan on it. [8-)]

As I see it there's twoaspects to consider in evaluating a lair plot. The lair itself (i.e. dimensions) and it's location.Location has been known for weeks and if you haven't decided on some preferred locations by now it's your own fault. They have now posted dimensions of all the lairs. Auction order also matters but that's been posted too.

Locations of SOME lairs has been known for weeks. NOT ALL.

I have some locations in mind, but you will have to pardon me if I wish to reserve judgment for when ALL FRICKIN LAIRS are in, OKAY???

Dimensions for all Lairs has JUST been put in, and YESTERDAY was made available to the general public.

That's right. An empty lairlot in this game has far fewer things to evaluate. For lair plots you're not worrying about zoning, drainage, soil, or danger of floods or slides. Plus you're not worrying about mortgage, quality of schools, hidden problems, ease of maintenance,etc. I wish buying a house were this simple.

You've obviously never built a house before in your life. Buying land is a LOT more involved than buying a completed, finished plot. You DO have to worry about zoning, drainage, etc, because it usually has NOT been analyzed OR evaluated as of yet. You have to know about proximity of utilities, and what it takes to GET utilities to your land if they aren't there already. You have to know about easements, community construction requirements, land covenants, and a whole host of other bullshit that you don't even have to worry about when buying a completed plot; the builder or original owner has already done that for you with those.

I don't know what planet you come from, but here on Earth, you can borrow money for empty land just as easily as you can for a finished one. Point is that I have enough criteria where it is going to take ME a lot of time to look. Regardless of how much time it takes YOU to look. I need more time. I am asking for more time. I also want more time to see that the rest of testing gets completed.

I can say that if the date is not pushed back, and you get bitten by some nasty bug, then come to the forums to complain, I will have ABSOLUTELY NO SYMPATHY for you, or anyone else who is prompting to rush this mess to live, especially since you apparently have absolutely NO sympathy for me under my concerns.

Gotta love forums, where people can be absolute fucking dicks to each other.

[Mirsathia]

Stuff

Just curious..

But you DO know, right, that the new map they put in shows locations of lairs, right?

I don't know how Pekka's map might affect the map; I don't have that installed. But the new (default) maps show lairs very clearly as black rectangles on the terrain.. it's pretty easy to zoom in a little bit and take a looksee around a city for propspective areas, and then go flying to the ones that you think you might like.

~Mirsathia

[Pharcellus]

so spend your week scouting those new areas which you are not familiar with. You are not new to the game, im sure you could mentally cut the possible lairs you wanted in half.

You miss the point. I have already said I have time to burn. OTHERS DO NOT. I can probably, PROBABLY find time to do just that. I know that several of my friends do not.

ok. over 300 lair locations have been availible for exploration for ... about three weeks now. if a dragon is just now starting the process of finding a suitable lair then one week might not be enough. however I don't really think Tulga's problem, since they have been very communicative with the locations and lair status.

Location is one of many criteria I have. I have looked some, but have not looked enough in that time, because I want to know WHAT the hell I am looking at when I look at it. A hole in the ground in the side of a hill doesn't tell me a whole lot. Yes, I do think it is Tulga's problem, as much as anyone's, because there is NO NEED to force them out that fast. Bipeds had longer to look with complete information at merge, why can we not be afforded the same courtesy?

I think that process takes too much time. based on my biped plot purchasing endevours, my advice would be to rate the lairs in batches based on location, or some other similarity. not each individually, because if lair A and liar B are in the same general area (chiconis let's say) applying the same critiera to each is a tad redundant.

I use what process works for me. I'm glad you have come up with something that works for you, but it doesn't automatically mean it works for me. Your advice is noted. Still doesn't change my opinion one iota.

or maybe you could rank your set of 6 criteria by importance. start with the most important element and apply it to the entire list of lairs. drop those that fail the criteria, and move on to the second criteira, drop those that fail... etc. and get a much smaller list of "visit worthy" lairs that way.

That's been impossible up until this week, because the INFORMATION didn't exist. There are some criteria that will require a re-examination of the areas once they hit live to verify and adjust my choices.

[Pharcellus]

But you DO know, right, that the new map they put in shows locations of lairs, right?

I don't know how Pekka's map might affect the map; I don't have that installed. But the new (default) maps show lairs very clearly as black rectangles on the terrain.. it's pretty easy to zoom in a little bit and take a looksee around a city for propspective areas, and then go flying to the ones that you think you might like.

It is not clear at all. There are black rectangles all over the map. Some are lairs, some aren't. You have to get a map markers file like this to be able to find all the lairs via the map. (Note: that is not a complete file.. it has to be inserted into an existing one).

[Frost]

When I get into the areas I want, I use the default map, but it's a pain to see from a pulled out view the over spread of lairs. I use the map they provided a few weeks back.

http://horizons.gamersinfo.net/atlas...view=lairs.jpg

Doesn't have guild plots, but then again, I'm not interested in them. For markers, you can take the information they posted, and parse it and create a new set of markers that have community name, and dimensions, but having them all at this point is more clutter. Just as easy to grab the few you want and mark em.

Like many others, I consolodated the info into my own spread sheet. Added more columns for total area, and other attributes that mean more to me. Cold climate, that sort of thing. It's a start.

[Tantalyr]

To Frost and all other dragons who have devoted significant time and effort to planning out your lairbidding strategies, I applaud you. But I have to ask, how excited and happy will you be if (perhaps when) you start planning and building upon your brand new homes only to be hit with a showstopping bug that just might have been caught by a guild lair builder (and corrected by the devs) before the auctions ended and you got your plot?

Why, just last night another, albeit somewhat minor, bug with lair construction was caught on Blight . . . .

[Mirsathia]

To Frost and all other dragons who have devoted significant time and effort to planning out your lairbidding strategies, I applaud you. But I have to ask, how excited and happy will you be if (perhaps when) you start planning and building upon your brand new homes only to be hit with a showstopping bug that just might have been caught by a guild lair builder (and corrected by the devs) before the auctions ended and you got your plot?

Why, just last night another, albeit somewhat minor, bug with lair construction was caught on Blight . . . .

Personally? I'll burn that bridge if I come to it. [:D]

I've waited long enough for lairs to come in. A few more days or even weeks won't matter much to me, to be honest. I've learned to be patient.


~Mirsathia

[Tantalyr]

Like being unable to go lairshaper after going to regular crafter for a day?...

Something like that, aye . . . .

[Goriax]

Like being unable to go lairshaper after going to regular crafter for a day?...

I've been warned not to shift back until they fix it so no biggie. I wasn't planning to anyway and now I definately won't.

[Dragoniade]

I've been warned not to shift back until they fix it so no biggie. I wasn't planning to anyway and now I definately won't.

You have. Sadly, not everyone watch this board. A community message at log in and a post on the account page before launching the game would have been better than a deep post here on the board.

[Frost]

To Frost and all other dragons who have devoted significant time and effort to planning out your lairbidding strategies, I applaud you. But I have to ask, how excited and happy will you be if (perhaps when) you start planning and building upon your brand new homes only to be hit with a showstopping bug that just might have been caught by a guild lair builder (and corrected by the devs) before the auctions ended and you got your plot?

Why, just last night another, albeit somewhat minor, bug with lair construction was caught on Blight . . . .

That's the thing. I expect there to be bugs. The auction has nothing to do with lairshaping, and if the auctions were pushed back it would speed up the improvements in the slightest. Just getting the ownership out of the way is enough for me at this phase. Then, hopefully, they'll get the bugs fixed in a decent time frame. Least they'll have more people seriously looking at the lairs. Lairs have been in development for a long long time. If they kept pushing things back, we'd never get em.

[Frost]

You have. Sadly, not everyone watch this board. A community message at log in and a post on the account page before launching the game would have been better than a deep post here on the board.

That I agree with, whole heartedly. It's a temporary issue, but a very inconvenient one.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Mirsathia wrote: But you DO know, right, that the new map they put in shows locations of lairs, right?

I don't know how Pekka's map might affect the map; I don't have that installed. But the new (default) maps show lairs very clearly as black rectangles on the terrain.. it's pretty easy to zoom in a little bit and take a looksee around a city for propspective areas, and then go flying to the ones that you think you might like.

It is not clear at all. There are black rectangles all over the map. Some are lairs, some aren't. You have to get a map markers file like this to be able to find all the lairs via the map. (Note: that is not a complete file.. it has to be inserted into an existing one).

and none of that addresses why it took me three hours for one community..

Yes, I had the black holes, I even had Frost's placement of little lair houses over them so they were easy to see.

But printpos isn't an exact science, that position can register as any one of about 10-20 points in a range of where your mouse is. Wednesday night, none of those communites had names attached.

Hence why I described why I had to write down the printpos of the lair, SCAN each and every printpos down both pages (I first looked for the first three numbers to help narrow the search, then compared the Y coordinates first three numbers, then wrote down what the website said the location was and made sure it was the exact one I was looking for) and that is how I figured out what community each lair belonged to. Which then allowed me to see what time they ended.

Now the process should be easier as now the community names are in.

It didn't take me forever because I didnt know where the lairs were, it took forever because 1-they didn't have live what lairs went to which community and 2-the community names made NO sense (i.e. Chiconis Community for Chiconis lairs would prevent alot of scanning, or Dralk for lairs IN Dralk, etc).

And yea, sorry, I woudl have rather waited until the bugs on blight were out *shrugs*

[Mirsathia]

and none of that addresses why it took me three hours for one community..

Yes, I had the black holes, I even had Frost's placement of little lair houses over them so they were easy to see.

But printpos isn't an exact science, that position can register as any one of about 10-20 points in a range of where your mouse is. Wednesday night, none of those communites had names attached.

Hence why I described why I had to write down the printpos of the lair, SCAN each and every printpos down both pages (I first looked for the first three numbers to help narrow the search, then compared the Y coordinates first three numbers, then wrote down what the website said the location was and made sure it was the exact one I was looking for) and that is how I figured out what community each lair belonged to. Which then allowed me to see what time they ended.

Now the process should be easier as now the community names are in.

It didn't take me forever because I didnt know where the lairs were, it took forever because 1-they didn't have live what lairs went to which community and 2-the community names made NO sense (i.e. Chiconis Community for Chiconis lairs would prevent alot of scanning, or Dralk for lairs IN Dralk, etc).

And yea, sorry, I woudl have rather waited until the bugs on blight were out *shrugs*

What I meant is NOT going down the list that they gave. It's been pretty useless to be honest (to me at least), except for the auction endings list. If you want to look at Chiconis lairs, just look manually on the map and look for the lairs around Chiconis.. then just port to Chiconis, and cruise around a bit, going towards the lairs that you saw. If you find one you like, only THEN refer to the endings list and see when it closes.


I dunno. I'm just saying that it worked for me, and it was a VERY quick (and stressless!) way to look for them.


I actually went out to a lair location that I'd spotted on the map a week ago (and had joked about getting for one reason or another, but hadn't actually scouted out yet)... On the way TO look at that lair, I spotted another on the map and cruised down on a whim.... and found out that that was THE only lair that I want! So, I pulled all of my 5 other bids, last night, for the others that I'd bid on, because the one I want is one of the last lair auctions to close. I'd rather have this location than Harro or Last stand, which are the only other lairs that I'd bid on. Even better, the locale was one that had absolutely NO other bids whatsoever in the area, even as of earlier this morning. I'm pretty darn optomistic. [:D]

Either way... good luck to your choosing!


~Mirsathia

[Death-knell]

yeah, I didn't use the list at all. Just looked at the map and lair hopped all over istaria. Took me an hour or to, but was fun