Petition to repeal the Pawnbroker Nerf (simple thread one post per person)

[Balthizar]

Hell ya put me on there. Take it back to the way it was please:/

[Guaran]

The only thing needed at this point is a way for crafters to make money. They shouldn't be allowed to literally make mithril, but they should get SOME money. The best way to make money would be off other players.

This isn't ever going to happen in any volume to consider crafting "A living"

Other than potions and food, just about everything else is crafted for free, or nearly free(coin wise anyway), even for non-guildies. THIS my friends is why most people may make the comment " I do not need money" which lead to others observing and saying: "OMG we need to FIX our economy! Embargo everything!Stop the... huh? oh you need a set of mithril plate? SURE I can make that. How much you say? oh whatever is fine.. C'mon lets choose the colors!..."

It sucked enough as it wasfor crafters, because the only real way they had to make money was to grind and sell to the PB. Now that has been nerfed.

Don't you crafters get it? If you want real coin you're going to have to adventure.

Even with the whole smorgasbord of completely re-working the entire crafting system (i.e. gut it start over) throw in decaying everything like Pharcellus wants, taking away everyones money, and deleting all the pawn browker NPC's,isn't going to change the fact that I craft things free for my guildies, and they do the same from me.


So again, I say put the pawn brokers back. The crafters need something to do. How fast did the cenotaphs and Dargor's lair get built??? Live demonstrations of that fact.

[Sen of Order]

Coin is not created by trading player-to-player. That ONLY moves it around.

The ONLY thing the PB nerf has accomplished was to have those that have skads of coin (earlier someone said they spent 5g on comps, and it didn't bother them? I've NEVER had 5g, and I've been playing since first day), to not be joined by those that do not.

Sure, I've taken a few loads of marble essence shapers to a PB, but not the day-in-day-out grind that I've seen some players do. But what of it? So what if I didn't do it in the past. What matters now is that I do not have the option to do what my fellow players have done.

IF you want coin to be flowing, then you need to create better outlets for it, and not constrict the flow in.

I would not say item decay, but what about an option to pay a monthly tax to the empire for a guard shack on our plot? Why would we want that? Maybe an increase in shop efficiency (workers doing better because they feel safer?) by 5 to 10 more points?

A tax on mini-portals that have single destinations. Want to change it? Delete the current, and pay another setup fee (twice the monthy amount?) for a new one.

The option to have items (not resources)within your pack remote-vaulted....for a nominal fee of course. Maybe the same thing, or a higher price, for getting an item out of the vault remotely.

Make Nadia's prices a LOT more reasonable, so she becomes an actual viable option. She charges so much, only the very desparate and impatient go to her. 15-20 silver coin for a T5 comp, and I would probably not wait a few weeks hoping for an adventurer to get around to advertising he's got the veteran abomination chest skulls that I'm needing to complete my cargo set. Sure, there are some that can afford her prices without batting an eye, but those are the ones that benefitted from the PB grinding (either directly or indirectly). Buying from another player (adventurer or crafter) only moves the coin laterally.

Allow us to improve some of the various roadways and paths that are around the empire, for coin at least, but maybe resources as well? Make roads give differing amounts of speed bonuses, dependent on improvement amount.

Maybe give us the chance to "hire" appropriate Trainers for our shops and buildings? A Beginner Jewelry Shop could higher a Trainer that would allow someone to switch schools and buy Beginner Formula, but he has a monthly "hire fee". Sure, you could have several Trainers on your plot, but you'd need about 1g a month to keep them there. I would say that anyone could "donate" coin towards this end (giving coin to the Trainer without actually buying something). Of course, and Expert Trainer would cost considerably more (1g per month just for one of these?), but he'd have ALL of the formula used by that school.

Of course, this is all besides the point, imo.

If I'm not mistaken, WE are supposed to be at WAR with the WA, no? The empire should be doing what it can to help improve us Gifted so that we can resist the hordes of WA, because their basic soldiers were not able to do it. So why is the empire suddenly being stingy? Short funds?(after all, coin can't be totally unlimited, no?) If this is the case, then the empire needs ways to MAKE coin from us, not "lock" it into place. A "health" economy has coin moving in ALL directions. In, out and side to side. Wealth needs to be able to be created, AND it needs to be able to be destroyed (either through constructive efforts or through poor choices).

How's this for an RLhypothetical situation? All of our paychecks get reduced by 60%, but prices at the stores remain the same. That would fly like a lead balloon. Especially if the reason given was "well, we thought it would help something".

One last thing to say. The PB nerf was absolutely the wrong thing to do. Remember, this is supposed to be a fantasy game. Why in the world do we want to bring RL into it in some sort of lame attempt to emulate economic plans and schemes? If we REALLY want to do that, then we should allow for graft and corruption. Players should be able to embezzle large amounts of the guild's funds. Con artists should be able to swindle little old ladies. Stockmarkets should be allowed to crash. Competing governments should be allowed to jackup tarrifs and export taxes. We should have our resources actually move across the map, and there be a chance for interception by freedom fighters or hijackers. We should be allowed to stack claims on resource locations, and or those claims to be "jumped". Come on, it's the "right" thing to do to create this economy to reflect RL, no?

So, let me end on that note before I devolve into a lower form of incoherence brought on by sleep deprivation.

[Guaran]

How's this for an RLhypothetical situation? All of our paychecks get reduced by 60%, but prices at the stores remain the same. That would fly like a lead balloon. Especially if the reason given was "well, we thought it would help something".

Exactly.

Chances are we have some of our fellow players to thank (for the idea), for this Oh so well thought out change.

[Vandellia]

I am totally ambivalent i understand both sides of the issue and the rational behind the change. Personally for me it is a major Nerf, my current ability to make cash is limited because they killed my main schools ablility to make money dead, so the only choices i have is to go Kill something for money, Dont get me wrong i do hunt but crafting is my passion, I am slowly hemmoraging money because I can not make money, Untill they revise my school.

[Darkgloom]

Put me on the Support side please. Like many things that come out, all it needs is some fine tuning, which Tulga is working on now.

Check out this thread and look at the posts by Thamoris, it may help you to understand the new PB system better...http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=109708

Darkgloom

[LaughingOtter]

I understand it very well. That's why I do not like the way it was implemented. Regardless of what the future holds, right now this change is hostile to new players. As such, I consider it a foolish and self-destructive decision.

[Senkeleron Fell]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Sen of Order wrote:How's this for an RLhypothetical situation? All of our paychecks get reduced by 60%, but prices at the stores remain the same. That would fly like a lead balloon. Especially if the reason given was "well, we thought it would help something".

Exactly.

Chances are we have some of our fellow players to thank (for the idea), for this Oh so well thought out change.

That is a nonsense argument You can use the same rational to say that if our paychecks all get increased by 60% everyone would say YAY! Then the economy would collapse. Brilliant job of foresight. Most people don't care about the overall picture unless it directly effects their 'paycheck' right now. Then, if the effect is negative they jump around screaming NERF without considering the whole. The reduction is not to an extent that you can't make reasonable amounts of money, it just prevents mass farming of the PB.

[Darkgloom]

I understand it very well. That's why I do not like the way it was implemented. Regardless of what the future holds, right now this change is hostile to new players. As such, I consider it a foolish and self-destructive decision.

Hey, a lot of those "foolish and self-destructive" decisions have made Horizons what it is today. You don't actually think that those at Tulga do these things "on the fly", they are VREY well thought out but the only way to make things the best they can is to start something in it's simplest form and build on it. I designed tabletop games RPGs for many years and, although more complicated, it is much the same. You have to test something out on the players to see how something will work with various personalities, etc., then improve on it until you have something that works for everyone. At first, you will have extreme opinions from both sides agreeing or disagreeing with what you have done, but in the end you hope to have something that makes everyone happy and keeps in-game balance. Patience is a virtue, my friend, and I'm sure you will be impressed with the finished PB system when eventually it comes along.

Darkgloom

[Cobal]

I notice my name is still in the list.
Take it out please.

[Ar-Narluin]

Greetings, Istarian people.

Against my purpose to post at least one time a week, I was very busy in the last month, but I never forgot this community.
I see, with regret, that the forum is invaded by troll.
I can't understand in any way how someone can enjoy itself in this way.
As a dragon, my first instinct is to breath my fire and burn them all.
But, perhaps, there are other ways...
*grins*
They seems so sweet and tender...
*lick her lips*

*Greets all with a friendly wing motion*

[LOVWYRM]

I am still here too

missing you all, the game and my dragon.

If RL lends me some time, and if I pick up courage
I´ll take a look at Lov`s Baby daughter, who is playing in the dunes of Kion/chaos.

Greetings to you all, worshiped Istarians *waves *


And do us all a favour:
DO NOT answer to destructive, pathological post.
Leave that to the medical specialists