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Thread: Level the Playing Field

  1. #1
    Ollie
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    Default Level the Playing Field

    There have been alot of changes being made in the game. Many players feel that these changes are giving the upper hand to the experienced players who were able to level their characters too easily (before the changes) and these improvementsareeffectively preventing new players from attaining suchuber status thusallowing the veteran players to secure their position as the few dominant figures in the game.
    Wether their complaints are sound or not, I call for a world-wide restart. Horizons should erase all classes from all characters, and take all plots and money from everyone. The changes made have been drastic enough to create an unlevel playing field. I say level it.Everyone who says these changes are great surely would not mind going through them and earning their levels like everyone else and then the new players can't complain that the older players reached their high levels unfairly. If Horizons believes that what they are doing is good for all then make it pertain to all.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    I'm not paying to have my chars reset to 0 because somebody wants that to happen.

    In a MMORPG there will *always* be others that are way ahead of you. Either accept that or don't play.

    It does not matter how easy or hard the experienced players had it. They have put in hours and hours of THEIR PAYED TIME to get to where they are. They certainly do not wish to have that taken away from them.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    Now that would be a, "kill Horizons" button if I ever saw one. ;)

  4. #4

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    that would also annoy every1 who has worked so hard making thie rplot and spending valauable time working on thier classes..that would also spell the quit hz permenent button to be used a lot i can see..things are ok as they are a player plays the game how he or she wants to if they want to have 20 classes to 100 then thats up to them if u want 2 classes at 100 then u can do that. If an experienced player wants to see the changed for themself they make a new char like i have there is no real need to reset the game :)


  5. #5

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    Thats really funny.............. its a joke right?

  6. #6
    Member Helcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    We loyal vets also suffered through much worse client performance,
    intolerable combat lag, far more broken quests, etc...etc... and yet
    supported Horizons through its worst growing pains. Let's not forget
    that side of the equation.



    your pal,


    Helcat
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  7. #7
    Ollie
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    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    I appreciate everyone's responses so far. This is no joke. I really feel this way. I agree with many of your points. I have been along for the ride since the beginning as well. I was a beta tester for this game. I loved the concept of Horizons as soon as I heard about it. I have five classes at 100 and four more in the 90s. I guess I could sit back and watch, what many people fear,inappropriatechanges being made to the game which makes it harder for newer players to accomplish whatI have. It also makes it harder for me to continue to advance in the game in a reasonable amount of time. My biggest frustration is thatI fear my opinions and concerns are falling on deaf ears. Sure there are players who will read this but no one with any authority to affect change will even browse this and consider my point of view.
    Please feel free to voice your opinions on this but keep your petty personal insults out of it. If you have something constructive to say then go for it. if you just want to mock me then please refrain from posting here. ty

  8. #8

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    So let me see if I got this right. Your thesis is that because there used to be several exploits allowing people to rapidly level their classes, then everything should be set to zero so as to level the playing field for new players.

    Does that work in the opposite direction too? If someone had a far ROUGHER time then newbies have now, will you give them a boost? Say, double their power or something?

    Because dragons used to have it far rougher then they do now. They had an insane hoard leak which made it impossible to accumulate more then a couple million (most never got past a few hundred thousand), they had no hoard abilities (and with the hoard leak couldn't have used them anyway), crappy armor, crappy damage, and couldn't advance past hatchling status because their was no Rite of Passage let alone the Ancient Rite of Passage. Needless to say they could not build on property and the only thing they could do in world crafting events was play mule for bipeds or make bricks and bars.

    Nowadays they're in much better shape. They can advance to adult and ancient, they can do significant damage, they can fly, and their armor is better. As of the lair auction they'll be able to build on property and there was already one world crafting event which they gobbled up.

    Seems to me that if you think it's ok for those who had it easier then it now to be brought down, then by the same token those who had it harder then it now should be brought up. So are you saying you'd back a proposal to double the power of dragons who've been in the world since, say, January 2004?

    Unlike you I'm not really serious. This is just the way MMORPGs go. It would be better if they never changed the ground rules, but that doesn't seem to be possible. I've never known an MMORPG which could go without changing basic character abilities so, even though I'd qualify (my dragon was created the day HZ released) I seriously don't think that should be done.

    But if you're going to be consistent perhaps you should think that's a good thing.

  9. #9
    Ollie
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    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Nikodemus
    I'm not paying to have my chars reset to 0 because somebody wants that to happen.

    In a MMORPG there will *always* be others that are way ahead of you. Either accept that or don't play.

    It does not matter how easy or hard the experienced players had it. They have put in hours and hours of THEIR PAYED TIME to get to where they are. They certainly do not wish to have that taken away from them.
    You're not getting the point of this Nik, I'm not a stranger to MMORPGs. I'm not upset that there are others that are ahead of me. My character is probably ahead of most. I also have put in hours and hours of my payed time. You say you're not paying to have your character reset because somebody wants that to happen. If you don't like it when things you think are negative happen to your characters, why do you expext me to be happy when things I think are bad are happening to mine? I wish the PB nerf and and the advnturing nerf and the new crafting changes never happened and yet they happened because "somebody wanted them to happen" If you really enjoyed the game you would be willing to give up your characters and start again, especially if you are truly concerned with the health of the game. I have at least as much to lose as you do, maybe more. I would be willing to give up whatI have worked very hard to accomplish if it meant making it fair to all players and keeping Horizons healthy. Can you say the same?

  10. #10
    Ollie
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    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Goriax
    So let me see if I got this right. Your thesis is that because there used to be several exploits allowing people to rapidly level their classes, then everything should be set to zero so as to level the playing field for new players.

    Does that work in the opposite direction too? If someone had a far ROUGHER time then newbies have now, will you give them a boost? Say, double their power or something?

    Because dragons used to have it far rougher then they do now. They had an insane hoard leak which made it impossible to accumulate more then a couple million (most never got past a few hundred thousand), they had no hoard abilities (and with the hoard leak couldn't have used them anyway), crappy armor, crappy damage, and couldn't advance past hatchling status because their was no Rite of Passage let alone the Ancient Rite of Passage. Needless to say they could not build on property and the only thing they could do in world crafting events was play mule for bipeds or make bricks and bars.

    Nowadays they're in much better shape. They can advance to adult and ancient, they can do significant damage, they can fly, and their armor is better. As of the lair auction they'll be able to build on property and there was already one world crafting event which they gobbled up.

    Seems to me that if you think it's ok for those who had it easier then it now to be brought down, then by the same token those who had it harder then it now should be brought up. So are you saying you'd back a proposal to double the power of dragons who've been in the world since, say, January 2004?

    Unlike you I'm not really serious. This is just the way MMORPGs go. It would be better if they never changed the ground rules, but that doesn't seem to be possible. I've never known an MMORPG which could go without changing basic character abilities so, even though I'd qualify (my dragon was created the day HZ released) I seriously don't think that should be done.

    But if you're going to be consistent perhaps you should think that's a good thing.

    I do agree with you. this is another good reason to restart. The dragons have had a rough time so far. If they restarted everything now it would balance the playing field for the dragons as well. by restarting, you would not have to give a boost to those who were not able to take advantage of the old rules. If they don't restart then it would be fair to give the dragons a boost. good post.

  11. #11
    Pariah
    Guest

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    Ollie, the 'older players 'would be able to attain their 'uber'standings within months, we know all the ins and outs to this game .... we also create new toons all the time , an lvl them under current gaming conditions.You would still be left behind, we know where mobs ,resources an the prefect areas are for us to do what we do at any particular lvl to best attaining 'Uber status',crafting or adventuring .
    Do you think a lvl 100 Laircrafter in a week was a fluke ,its not exploits , the Uber players use their time an effort to max effiency,which the only way you will gain that is playin like some of us for 2 years .

  12. #12

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field



    Ollie why should I be penalized and have to go through the game all again because some one else feel I had an unfair advantage? I started about a week before the end of beta and only have 1 Toon who is a dragon93 adv/100 craft/25 laircraft and you want me to spend another 2 years to get back to this point?

    I am sorry you feel the newbies are not getting a fair shake or that we as vets had some advantage over them, but I paid for my 2 years and I earned every level of it. I am just as effect by most of the changes as any newbie. They can put in the time just like us and reach the same power as us. No it may not be as quick or easy but I personal think thats a better thing as it is more of a accomplishment then what the people doing exploits did. If a game reset everyone every time someone used and exploit to out level someone else the game would quickly go under as no one would stay around to watch all their hard earned work go down the drain.



  13. #13

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    This seems like an interesting idea.... On one hand, it would be nice to see a lower level economy again, and lower leve areas more populated. On the other, my dragon is level 72 right now(created in May), and I don't want to lose him for the world.

    I would propose a...twist, if you will, to your plan. Make a new server. Don't allow character copies, keep it clean, a clean slate. This way, people who cannot take it upon themselves to abandon their characters wont have to--but people such as you and myself would have a new place to go as well. I cannot imagine the ammount of people that would flat out quit if Chaos/Order were wipped clean, but I'd sure go into a completely new server if one came up.
    Explorer 80%
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    The only thing wrong with this idea, is that the game is always evolving. What are you going to do in 6 months when yet another change or adjustment is made, wipe everyone again?

    This is a bad idea.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Ollie
    [img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Goriax wrote: So let me see if I got this right. Your thesis is that because there used to be several exploits allowing people to rapidly level their classes, then everything should be set to zero so as to level the playing field for new players.

    Does that work in the opposite direction too? If someone had a far ROUGHER time then newbies have now, will you give them a boost? Say, double their power or something?

    Because dragons used to have it far rougher then they do now. They had an insane hoard leak which made it impossible to accumulate more then a couple million (most never got past a few hundred thousand), they had no hoard abilities (and with the hoard leak couldn't have used them anyway), crappy armor, crappy damage, and couldn't advance past hatchling status because their was no Rite of Passage let alone the Ancient Rite of Passage. Needless to say they could not build on property and the only thing they could do in world crafting events was play mule for bipeds or make bricks and bars.

    Nowadays they're in much better shape. They can advance to adult and ancient, they can do significant damage, they can fly, and their armor is better. As of the lair auction they'll be able to build on property and there was already one world crafting event which they gobbled up.

    Seems to me that if you think it's ok for those who had it easier then it now to be brought down, then by the same token those who had it harder then it now should be brought up. So are you saying you'd back a proposal to double the power of dragons who've been in the world since, say, January 2004?

    Unlike you I'm not really serious. This is just the way MMORPGs go. It would be better if they never changed the ground rules, but that doesn't seem to be possible. I've never known an MMORPG which could go without changing basic character abilities so, even though I'd qualify (my dragon was created the day HZ released) I seriously don't think that should be done.

    But if you're going to be consistent perhaps you should think that's a good thing.


    I do agree with you. this is another good reason to restart. The dragons have had a rough time so far. If they restarted everything now it would balance the playing field for the dragons as well. by restarting, you would not have to give a boost to those who were not able to take advantage of the old rules. If they don't restart then it would be fair to give the dragons a boost. good post.
    Maybe you should ask the dragons who've been playing the game since release if they want to restart at level 1 again before saying this is for their benefit.

    Want to make a side bet what the overwhelming reponse will be?

    There are two times in the life of an MMORPG when you can start everyone at level 1:

    1. When the game is first released.
    2. When a new server is opened.

    If HZ keeps growing, I figure that sooner or later they'll have to start a new server although it'll probably still be awhile. Maybe you can wait and start a character on that server.

    I thought the guy who wanted to make HZ PvP was pushing the most sure fire way of destroying the game. Maybe he was. But this idea is almost as much a sure fire way of destroying the game.

    Because if you take a level 100 and make him level 1 -- even if it's easier now -- he would very likely quit out of disgust and I wouldn't blame him.

    I suspect you aren't serious, that you're just posting this to stir people up.

    I think I've already given this thread more attention then it deserves. It doesn't deserve any more.

  16. #16
    Member Helcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    Bottom Line is,

    this idea will never happen.


    You'll simply have to wait until a new game is launched.
    Other than that, this is nothing more than monday morning
    quarterbacking.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    I make a new char when I wanna go thru all again just like I am currently doing with my char Dionysis. But if someone ever would say give back your 2 plots and all lvls you gained on your adult dragon and on Sunuke then i would say bye bye Horizons.

    Every game goes thru these developments it's just life.

    If you wanna start over so bad then do so but don't expect it from others.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    I'll I've got so say is

    "Game Experience May Change During Online Play."

    Now we can (and do)debate those changeshere in the forums till the cows come home. We can lobby for changes we want to happen, and suggest new changes. But the one change a MMORPG (well one that wants to continue running) will never make is a wipe of live characters. Everybody isn't going to like every changes, but you can't make changes that cost you a majority of your subscriptions when you're running on a shoestring as is.

    Horizons has experienced an inordinate amount of changes since its inception (mostly for the better i might add), and hopefully more will come. And these changes were made in what they honestly felt were in the best interests of the game as a whole. The one thing they cannot do is not make changes because it makes thing harder for people who haven't done those things yet, or because it makes thing easier then they used to be.

    If you don't like the way things are, for reasons other then "So and so had it easier in the past", or "I had it hard back in the day", make a reasoned intelligent post about it. That outlines specifically what you don't like about the way things currently are, and the changes you'd like to see to.Better yet if you outly some supporting reasons, and arguments.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    3things...

    One, I have to congratulate you Ollie for having the cojones to be hereafter considered a troll every time you post and to invite a flame from everyone in HZ on behalf of the greater good of the game. I do so myself as often as I visit these forums. The thing you have to remember is who, or rather should I say what players, are in the forums. Don't be discouraged because they speak for themselves and not the entire playerbase, and it goes without saying that they dont want to have to remake a character the new hard way.

    Two is for you dragon mains that posted. You are compensated on your power curve already. I would say TG has more than sympathized with you. In fact, they fell in love with you and proposed is kinda more like it.

    As far as hoard leakage in the past, one word... FIREWORKS.
    As far as dragons releveling to 100... Is that hard or something? No. The first 100 is by far now the easiest.Many of you dragon mains have full rosters of level 100 dragons. Is leveling your character after 100 when you bounce back to level 1 and are rated 90? These days... Yes, very.

    I side with you Ollie, as yes HZ does need a complete wipe and that is pretty much all there is to it. Also, as you said, if the players loved the game (at this point if you still play you absolutely have to) they wouldn't mind re-leveling their characters and rebuilding because that is what HZ is and why we play in the first place. However, the timing for that is not yet. We still have a perpetual alpha test at this time. AE put this game public before it was even remotely ready... probably because of finance reasons... but my entire lifespan here on HZ I have seen almost nothing but more dragon material. Still see it every patch... religiously. Bipeds still need their sunshine. A whole lot of things have to be added to the game. Then, when they have these things in, they can call it beta testing and wipe the shards. I wouldn't be happy to lose my 91 x 91 I have been working on but it would still be there for sale post-wipe and the race would be on. It is indeed what is best for the game.


  20. #20
    Member Helcat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Level the Playing Field

    it's called launching a new game...

    get a clue. no mmorpg is going to do a complete wipe.

    good lord.
    Got Cowbell?

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