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Thread: Cold hard facts

  1. #1

    Default Cold hard facts

    Im not sure what section this post shoulda went under so if you feel it has a special place please feel free to move it.

    Is Tulga a publicly traded company as in stocks and shares?
    Also are their any posted numbers on subscriptions or population?
    Are there any places where revenues and expenditures are open to public viewing?

    Hearing all is well from sources that have proven to not be so totally reliable in the past isnt to comforting on the status of Horizons.

    Please show me some numbers to prove that Horizons is on the good and give us some peace of mind that we are not investing time in a sinking ship.

    Thankyou

  2. #2
    Member Vlisson's Avatar
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    yes would be of interest for me too!

  3. #3

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    Tulga is not a publicly traded company but, instead, is a privately owned limited liability company. It thus is not required to report the information you wish under the Securities & Exchange Act.

    As with most MMO company owners, Tulga has chosen not to publicly reveal the number of current subscriptions, nor their revenues and expenses.

    Can't say as it bothers me a lick, though. Like any other MMO or single player game, I play Horizons because I enjoy it, not because I've ferreted through the operator's financial statements.
    Before you criticize anyone, walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticize him, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have his shoes.

  4. #4
    Member Helcat's Avatar
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    no, Tulga is not a publicly traded company.

    Edited to add: sorry for redundency.. Tant & I posted at same time...
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flindar
    Hearing all is well from sources that have proven to not be so totally reliable in the past isnt to comforting on the status of Horizons.
    So you're asking for information and then saying the source of that information is not trustworthy to begin with? Makes me wonder if you really want this data, or if you'd only consider it to be 'reliable' if it said what you wanted it to say.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaughingOtter
    So you're asking for information and then saying the source of that information is not trustworthy to begin with? Makes me wonder if you really want this data, or if you'd only consider it to be 'reliable' if it said what you wanted it to say.
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  7. #7

    Default Hrmmm

    Quote Originally Posted by Flindar
    Im not sure what section this post shoulda went under so if you feel it has a special place please feel free to move it.

    Is Tulga a publicly traded company as in stocks and shares?
    Also are their any posted numbers on subscriptions or population?
    Are there any places where revenues and expenditures are open to public viewing?

    Hearing all is well from sources that have proven to not be so totally reliable in the past isnt to comforting on the status of Horizons.

    Please show me some numbers to prove that Horizons is on the good and give us some peace of mind that we are not investing time in a sinking ship.

    Thankyou
    How would you like if if the shoe was on the other foot? That Tulga asked for your rank, social security , financial information, to prove you can afford to pay? I know, far stretched, but thoughts are. No company that is private has to give any information out whatsoever to the player base.

    If you can log in, and have fun, isn't that what counts in the scope of things?

  8. #8
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peaches
    How would you like if if the shoe was on the other foot? That Tulga asked for your rank, social security , financial information, to prove you can afford to pay? I know, far stretched, but thoughts are. No company that is private has to give any information out whatsoever to the player base.

    If you can log in, and have fun, isn't that what counts in the scope of things?
    but we DO prove we can pay, each and every time they successfully charge our credit cards.
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


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  9. #9
    Ophelea
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flindar
    Im not sure what section this post shoulda went under so if you feel it has a special place please feel free to move it.

    Is Tulga a publicly traded company as in stocks and shares?
    Also are their any posted numbers on subscriptions or population?
    Are there any places where revenues and expenditures are open to public viewing?

    Thankyou
    No, it is privately owned.
    No, there are no posted numbers, nor will there be.
    Because it is a private company, revenues and expenditures are not required to be available to the public.

    You'll have to take anecdotal evidence only.

    Increased server populations.
    Increased spending on marketing.
    Increased staffing - once the staff changes are made the actual changes create a largeer staff.
    Announcement of an expansion.
    Changes in Community/Selling Sites
    Visibility of Staff (not just CEO)
    Completion of projects in a more timely manner
    Returning players

    Again, all anecdotal. Take it as you will.

  10. #10

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    I will add my two coppers...

    Anyone that knows me ingame, knows that for 2+ years I was a staunch supporter of this game. After a few very irritating developments with the ongoing event, ( namely the blighting of all thornwood trees without a way to cleanse the logs, and changing the woodshop out there into a blight node after we were willing to rebuild it after it was destroyed ) I felt that someone on the development team had a very twisted sense of why they were working on this game, and decided it was time to move on.

    Which I did for about a month. Canceled all accounts and didn't plan on looking back.

    I tried 3 other games, none to my liking, and received an email that my guilds main and secondary plots here were about to be reclaimed. So, I resubbed to make sure to hand over these plots. Still, I had the plan to only stay long enough to do that.

    HOWEVER, at that same time, they announce a new expansion, a new game project ( DWO ) and I hear from friends ingame that they got rid of a few that were not working in the best interest of HZ, and had hired 3 new staff.

    All this leads me to feel that they have either enough funding to start improving in a good direction, or they have NEW funding. Either way, it was enough for me to stick around and see what happens next. Besides, I'm already established here, can craft most anything, and I still have fun.

    Are all things perfect? NO.
    Am I happy with everything? NO.
    Do I think they need to fix what's broken, including expert forms for CNF, adding color to cargo wrists, improving the economy so that it actually functions, provide some sort of end game, either continue the current event or start something new?

    YES!
    YES YES YES!!!

    BUT, I'm willing to give them a chance, now that they appear to actually be turning a corner. I doubt that they expect any more from us. So, fair is fair.

  11. #11

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    My first question was obviously the most relevant.... so since it was answered we now know that the others are irrellevant due to the fact that Tulga is a private run company.

    And yes as a matter of fact if a customer of mine asks... what are your credentials, how many customers do you serve and also is your company in stable financial situation?

    I will tell them... it is my duty as a service provider to assure my PAYING customers that they are safe and it is also there RIGHT to ask such questions.

    Im sorry if we dont agree and I understand about keeping things private but I also understand as a paying concerned customer.

    Also the whiplash as to some of the answers doesnt reassure me to much... Instead of a "Yes Flindar Things are well numbers have improved maybe around ??% and sales are up" I get a basically mind your own business and we dont have to tell you.....

  12. #12
    Member Joaqim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aamer Khan
    After a few very irritating developments with the ongoing event, ( namely the blighting of all thornwood trees without a way to cleanse the logs....
    You are pretty wrong with this point, the master forms for blighted board and the board cleansing were dropping about the same time the tree's get blighted (at least on Unity) - I had those, but never used them because the "treant way" is a lot faster

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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flindar
    My first question was obviously the most relevant.... so since it was answered we now know that the others are irrellevant due to the fact that Tulga is a private run company.

    And yes as a matter of fact if a customer of mine asks... what are your credentials, how many customers do you serve and also is your company in stable financial situation?

    I will tell them... it is my duty as a service provider to assure my PAYING customers that they are safe and it is also there RIGHT to ask such questions.

    Im sorry if we dont agree and I understand about keeping things private but I also understand as a paying concerned customer.

    Also the whiplash as to some of the answers doesnt reassure me to much... Instead of a "Yes Flindar Things are well numbers have improved maybe around ??% and sales are up" I get a basically mind your own business and we dont have to tell you.....
    Umm, David has said on several occasions--both here on the boards, in published intereviews, and in IRC--that subscription numbers are indeed up, the conversion rate from free trials to paid subscriptions is a whopping 58% (IIRC), and that Tulga is financially stable. You insinuated in your original post that you don't believe him or, for that matter, anyone who echoes those statements. *shrugs*

    You are indeed the rare bird if you work for (or own/operate) a privately-held company and have no compunction at all about giving your customers detailed financial information about your company, such as number of subscribers, sales figures, expense figures, and the like. The vast, vast majority of privately held companies in America won't give out that kind of detailed information except upon court order.
    Before you criticize anyone, walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticize him, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have his shoes.

  14. #14

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    Thats why I asked the question ... this way i get straight replies and i dont have to spend to much time searching for the answers



    and I guess your right... then again I have nothing to hide with my company... im proud of our figures and reputation and i dont mind telling people things they want to know...

    now dont get me wrong.. i dont give exacts and i didnt expect exacts... i would estimate things such as we grossed around 250k last year and serviced about 500 customers... I also like to refer people to good customers in the past so that they can check us out for themselves.

    I just see it as good service, I suppose thats why i look for the same.

  15. #15

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    Most MMO companies don't give away subscriber info unless they're in the top 5 or so. They also won't tell you if they're losing customers as a general rule, but Tulga has been giving us data on customer retention and growth so I think the game is safe there.

    www.mmogchart.com

    Above is a site which does pretty good at keeping tabs on subscriber info or getting through other means. They're pretty reliable in general. Last couple data points show Horizons stablizing out above 10,000 subscriptions. About the same level where Anarchy Online is for paying subscriptions.

  16. #16
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Svayvti
    Most MMO companies don't give away subscriber info unless they're in the top 5 or so. They also won't tell you if they're losing customers as a general rule, but Tulga has been giving us data on customer retention and growth so I think the game is safe there.

    www.mmogchart.com

    Above is a site which does pretty good at keeping tabs on subscriber info or getting through other means. They're pretty reliable in general. Last couple data points show Horizons stablizing out above 10,000 subscriptions. About the same level where Anarchy Online is for paying subscriptions.
    10,000 paying subs you say? So tell me where are the hundreds and hundreds that should be online... at PEAK time I would bet heavily that you'd be hard pressed to find 1/10th that claim online at any given time on all 3 NA servers, combined.
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


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  17. #17

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    I find it hard to believe a site such as mmogchart can have any reliable info on subscription rates of a privately held company. It would indicate, at the very least, a leak inside the company. You'll also notice that their last data point for Horizons is about a year old now.

    Speaking of subscriber numbers, I recall an older discussion here (or on old Tazoon) where a 5% rule was thrown around. That is, some quarters accept the daily peak server player count as roughly 5% of total subscriber numbers. If you can find a total of 1000 players on HZ servers, it would indicate a total subscriber base of 20000. I'm taking this percentage game with a grain of salt though.

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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aamer Khan
    I will add my two coppers...

    [snip]
    ... adding color to cargo wrists,
    Not trying to hijack this, but I colored my cargo sets with armor dye kits just last week and it seemed to work fine. I don't make Cargos, so I don't know if it works in the construction, but the dye kit worked fine. All of my cargo wrists are very colorful.
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  19. #19
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landowyn
    Not trying to hijack this, but I colored my cargo sets with armor dye kits just last week and it seemed to work fine. I don't make Cargos, so I don't know if it works in the construction, but the dye kit worked fine. All of my cargo wrists are very colorful.
    Landowyn, as I recall the complaint is about ironsilk cargo wrists, not all cargo wrists, but I could be wrong.
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor
    10,000 paying subs you say? So tell me where are the hundreds and hundreds that should be online... at PEAK time I would bet heavily that you'd be hard pressed to find 1/10th that claim online at any given time on all 3 NA servers, combined.
    First of all, it is bad to assume there are 10,000 subs. Only Tulga knows for sure, but it is an extrapolation on their old data. I know where he gets his data and it is in general pretty reliable, he goes into a lot of detail on the site. It is older data, but with the way it stabilized I would probably guess in the area of 5k - 15k subs myself.

    Second, where are they? Not every subscriber is required to play every friday night during peak hours. People's play schedules don't overlap, people play on different servers, some play a lot less frequently than others, and some people continue subscriptions past the point even where they aren't playing at all. Horizons isn't the first game where I've heard people say "no way they have that many subscriptions!", but I know for a fact it is easily possible.

    Third, what exactly is wrong with the way he collects his data? how would you do it better and come up with more reliable figures?

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