One Man's Blessing Is Another Man's Curse

[Tantalyr]

Recently on Order, I listened with great interest to a discourse by Glimmers on the strong and weak points of Horizons as she explained them to someone in the New Player channel who was on the free trial. The primary thrust of her points was that unlike many other online games, Horizons is "unstructured." And it struck me that the "unstructured" design of Horizons is one of the primary things that sets it apart from other MMORPG's.

It is precisely that open-endedness, that perceived lack of "structure," that I think is both a blessing and a curse to Horizons. Some folks want--indeed NEED--a game filled with piles and piles and piles of quests telling them exactly what to do and where to do it to get some uber reward. Other folks really like games that let--indeed encourage--them to do whatever they feel like with little to no direction.

Oblivion offers a fine illustration of that point, albeit in a single-player context. You can simply do the main quest line and do what the NPC's tell you to go do. Or you can just go out and explore the world and find dozens upon dozens of quests and other adventures that fall completely outside the main quest line. Or you can do both. You'll see on Oblivion's multiple forums complaints from players that they finished it too quickly and too easily, for all they did was the main quest line and had no desire to do anything some NPC didn't tell them to do. And you'll see counterposts from Oblivion players still enjoying just exploring the world after over 200 hours in the game and not even close to finishing the main quest line of tasks.

Horizons falls into that latter category. No, it doesn't have some linear progression of quests leading to some uber "end game" (which, in my view, is an oxymoron in any MMORPG). It is designed to encourage players to get out and explore, to do whatever strikes their fancy. Indeed, when I log in (which is most days) my normal dilemma isn't what I should do that session to pass the time, it's what I should do FIRST.

So Horizons ain't for everyone. Folks that want or need quests to guide them through every single phase of the game until they reach "uberdom" just aren't going to like this game. Folks like me that revel in the freedom of doing whatever we want, whenever we log in, love this game (any warts notwithstanding).

Horizons is my blessing. It's many another MMORPG "addict's" curse.

[Peaches]

and I totally agree with ya 1 million percent!

[Varangaard]

I'd also add that Horizons is a much less item-centric game like, for example, World of Warcraft.

One reason why a WoW player might get bored here as there are not 'phat lewt' quests to offer them a blade or armor of überdom at regular intervals. I haven't played WoW, but listening to my friends' tales who have, it seems that much of WoW-ers time is spent on instance-hunting that 'good stuff'. it sounds like chacracters in WoW have been made to depend a lot on their weapon's damage, whereas in HZ your stats and skills play a larger part. (Mages, I hear, are less loot-centric characters.)

Thus they figure that, since in HZ you can't go instance-run for yourself a Vindicating Gilded Sword of the Master-Lord-Champion at level 20 which deals 'sweet damage', the game must be a bore. They have been trained, like Pavlov's dogs, to hunt those loot drops to make themselves über.

[Varraven]

I don't want to derail this, and I agree with the posts above. But--I do play both this game and WoW. I'd have to say that for me it's not about being /shriek "uber" but about having fun and...really....development. Meanwhile, I do think that if an adventurer didn't once in a while get something unusual, something yes perhaps nice enough to replace an all too common crafted item, the adventuring would seem totally meaningless. Don't get me wrong, I do find it fun to hack away at monsters in itself, and the different approaches that it can involve. It's just....well.....I'd hate to not have that feeling of "hmmm, just maybe this one will have something fun." Y'know, rather than a bucket of sand.

[Fratricide]

I know that when I do a /info ingame... that it says that I have been Ingame on my main char alone 100+ days... What would blow a lot of peoples minds is how little I am actually AFK for more then 10 minutes. Most of the time when I log in I am thinking to myself, "what can I do to make someone elses gameday enjoyable."

After playing for a stint on several other MMO's and realizing that most peeps in those are just out there to screw someone else over the first chance they get, I am glad I play in this community of great people.

Structured or not, the enjoyment of any MMO to me is the atmosphere that is generated by the community in which you play. The way that HZ is structured with having some starting quests to get you familiarized with gameplay. Players that have set it upon themselves to help new players. Others in the community that are willing to drop everything to help someone with something important to their character, like RoP and ARoP. The biggest thing that continually draws me back to this game, though I never stray far from it, is the fact that there is a limited PvP gameplay available. To me this strikes me as the biggest reason why this games community is so intertwined together. They dont have to watch their back as they walk through town looking out for that "RED" character that is looking to kill/loot you for your goods... or to PK you over and over until you want to actually quit playing (aka griefing).

I dont know where these people come up with the term "End Game" as any MMO is presumably be perpetual. If they are talking about what to do after you lvl your character to multiple 100's... thats up to you.. there are pleanty of quests that can keep you busy.. if you dont like that.. then start a new char combination and have fun with that.. or go hunt comps for someone else... Im sure there is always something to do... if you run out of things to do.. I have a couple plots that you can add materials to. J/K

Anyway.. enough of me tying up this thread with my nonsensical discussion on this... Just suffice it to say... this game is Blessing in itself, because it gives a place for a great community of great people/players to congregate and have fun just meandering about if they so choose.

[Droth]

I came back after giving a try to every mmo under the sun and i came back here for the above poseters very reason. i could go play some other mmos and grind all day for "phat lewts" and while it's exciting to get that sword of ultimate smiting+5 i find that the open gameplay and depth along with the community more than make up for the lewts and pwnage(and lame chuck norris jokes) i might be missing. i know a few people here that have been playing for many years and still find stuff to do on a daily basis. work on getting that multiclassed titan up to snuff, switch to a dragon for a totally differant angle on the game, work on a trade skill, help someone out, work on my plot, go find somewhere pretty and watch the sky and sunset, or just sitting in a town square roleplaying. the best thing about this game aside from the community is that there is no end game. horizons really never ends.

[tramsan]

horizons really never ends.

Well, if that isn't the penultimate tagline for Horizons, I don't know what is.

[C`gan]

The feeling of not being led around the nose by some detached NPC is what I like. After 2 years of playing, I'm still a Warrior 20 by accident with not a single level 100 class even close. I favor independent activity over set-in-stone quests. It was the same with Earth and Beyond, in that I was a balanced Progen Warrior, with nearly every faction green (except V'rix and Red Dragon, but who really wanted to be friends with pirates, anyway?).

I'm looking forward to several more years before I start touting level 100s.

[Frith-Rae]

Actually I think I am one of those players who does struggle with the nonstructure of the game.

I do feel I need a "goal" a "something to reach for" in order to really get me motivated to do things.

Now, yes I can set "goals" for myself but somehow in my mind that can get associated with "work" *lol*

I also play WoW and Horizons, and have played both simultaneously for over the last 1+. They both offer different things, and the same things.

I have great guilds in both. I enjoy playing with both guilds. I love my dragon. (can't say the same for night elves hehehe) I hate crafting and I dont *have* to do either in both (though I do....).

However, I find that I am more likely to login and PLAY WoW - fulfill my quests, not for loot, but because I like fulfilling quests and objectives and getting money. I like seeing new parts of the world, new instances, higher end new content I've not seen etc.etc.

When I login to Horizons...I normally sit. I sit...and I chat. My boyfriend even asks me why I have to have the game when its just a chatroom.

I have no drive to DO anything because I feel ike I've DONE most of it already. And what I can't do yet, I have to repeat everything I've done in the last year and a half to get to THAT. Some months I'm ok with this, other months like now I'm burnned out, take breaks, and sometimes can't stand to go sit and chat and browse forums while I'm sitting in game.

*I* Wish I had more quests to do. I'm 89 - there is no hope. I *wish* there was more than repetitive trophy quests to do. I have a VERY hard time just going out and killing random mobs "for the Heck of it" because it feels like bored grinding for no reason.

I've built my dragon lair for the past three months straight and I'm burned out on it, without even completing the first level. So that's not going anywhere soon - until I get a bug in my butt to craft again.

I just wish there was a bit more direction, a bit more to shoot for, even if it was another quest for cash (that unlike trophy hutners I don't have to repeat 12 times a level for the two mobs I can solo hunt). A bit more structure to the game for me. Then I'd be having more "playing" and less "sitting"

I didn't earn my own expect "spot" to find me in on Order for nothing. It was cuz I sat there, most nights than not, and everyone knew where to find me.

Now that spot has just moved to my lair entrance. But the groove is defininitely working its way into the rock....

As a graphical chat room though - it is great .

[Svayvti]

I think there is a middle ground in this discussion.

Not like anything that has been done in MMOs so far (to my knowledge), but like is done in some of the better RPGs like the Final Fantasy series.

You have a main line of quests and things that compell you to advance your character and give you goals. yet at the same time, you have hordes of rewarding "side quests" with story rewards, items, and great extra experience.

I greatly look forward to the quest editor going live so that all the players can contribute to a better experience as people are trying to do in this thread.

[Justa Mirage]

I don't know.... I kinda get excited every time I finish or get near finishing just "1" resource on my lair's "T3 Hall"

So what it's only a T3... but at least "I" built it almost on my own with some gathering help from dragons looking for ROP crafting XP to make their crafting levels for doing the things needed to advance their ROP and I got no XP for doing the same material.

There are things money can't buy, but for everything else...

I haven't lost interest in the game, and there just isn't a reason for it. There are people to talk to, things to do that are unfinished, and a future (though still waiting for it) of a new client and/or fixes to the present one to allow things like collision detection, falling damage, and dynamic destruction from the WA to simulate a full scale war (right now it feels like a turn based game... they advance after a patch day, we construct a building or kill a mob boss... patch day comes and our building gets activated and the WA fortify yet another position... after a patch day)

We want to see the WA come knocking on harro's walls, bash them down, and take out the guard towers, making us rebuild them and hire more guards.

We want to see player properties slightly damaged after an attack, allowing the community to put back oh... 5% of the materials needed for construction or you don't get the machine bonus... something like that.

If you remember Command and Conquer, every time the enemy hit your base units, they would look a little damaged and you could click your little wrench and start repairing it. Having this kind of dynamic damage done to buildings would give crafter / construction people a mission to help keep certain machines working after attacks by the WA.

[LaughingOtter]

We want to see player properties slightly damaged after an attack,

"We"? Got a gnome in your scale pack?

Some folks are OK with player-owned structures being damaged, but not everyone. I happen to be one of those who opposes any damage whatsoever to player-owned structures.

Want to see community structures get damaged? Fine with me.

[Vlisson]

i tried Dungeon and Dragons online (trial).

A very interesting game, great quests, very nice grafic but its more an action/arcade game than an MMORPG.

The quests are very interesting but become very boring if you have to do them again and again. And its frustration to click on the monsters, run manual, try to backstab. Its exhausting while HZ is very good to relax.

HZ is much better than DDO. IF HZ gets some dungeon or quests like wow/ddo it surpasses them.

i play at the moment guild wars, an interesting game too.

But i wonder why all this "newer" games dont have less option when you create an character or what armor you can get ingame.

I love HZ and it will be ever my favourite game. Its options are gigantic.

But i personal need lvl progression 100+ or this expansion. Im there since beta 2 and now i need some variety.

i would love to see a lot of new players in HZ, maybe the expansion will get them for us!

@ontopic yes its a blessing that you can play HZ without searching for a quest or a storyline. You explore and hunt monsters. If you dont want to hunt then you craft. Without the need of searching for the hidden NSC and have to do all what he says to progress.

[Wispa]

As a new player ( only been playing for a little over 2 weeks now) I really like the openness of this game. I have come from other mmo's where you gind your way to the top levels, just to raid then an expansion comes out and it is back to the grind. I like bwing able to do what ever here- and not have a complete step by step of what and how my characters are suppose to be. It is fun runing around trying to figure out what to do next. And with the new player chat channel there is always help out there when you get completely lost..lol

You are right that this game is not for everyone - but i do know it is right for me. There are to many of those other type of mmo's out there already, it is nice to have a game like horizons for the rest of us.

I do not want someone holding my hand telling me what to do in a game. With this game almost every aspect can be an adventure.

[Dhalin]

I, too, like the openness of Horizons, but... well, with my MMORPG history, I look at this game and I think "man, we need more quests that yield experience points".

I don't want to gain 50% of a level every time I finish a quest, but some experience points would be nice. Currently, the only "quest" to gain experience are trophies and they are very limited and restrictive as to which trophies you can turn in, and how many until you begin recieving half experience. Not to mention some of the trophies they ask you to turn in are just plain not feasible, and have Horrible drop rates, you end up killing 50+ mobs for 5 trophies... bleh.

I mean actual honest-to-god quests, say, some NPC in town wants you to retrieve a lost item from some blighted area and you get exp and a decent item for doing so. Or, someone tells you that their relative is now an undead person in some mid-level blighted area and they wnat you to put their soul at rest by killing them. Doing this and returning to the NPC gives you some decent (but not uber) item and some xp.

There should be alternate ways of getting decent exp, instead of just grind grind grind grind grind. That's one of the things I think could be improved upon the most about Horizons. Other than my RoP, the entire game has been nothing but grind grind grind grind grind grind.... doing the same thing over and over and over and over again. While I like the game, I'm starting to get tired of the endless grind to get my crafting levels up, and hopefully when I finish RoP, being an adult will make travel and battle something "Fresh" for a little while. But then, I need 600K hoard and nothing seems to want to drop hoard for me.

I went to Lesser Aradoth Deadlands (deadpool is a little too strong for me yet) and killed hordes of undead, and I got ... *one* ... hoardable (and it was only worth 1500) and a bunch of refurbished items. I spent an hour and a half in there, too. You'd think that Undead, being amongst the hardest-to-kill mobs of their level, would drop more than that. I'd go kill something in the Lv45+ bracket, but Gold Rage and Silver Strike start becoming necessities, otherwise you spend too much time resting... can't really build up hoard if I'm burning it every mob I kill...

While I love Horizons, I can't help but to admit its flaws, in hopes that the Devs will see this and work to improve upon these areas some.

--Dhalin

[Sigi]

There are quests like that - for XP - and finding people, don't know if they still are all there but
you got the gregory quests, the aroh crystal one, the maple leaf, something in kira which involves the guards, and I'm sure I forget some.

More quests would allways be nice but it doesn't stop at the trophiehunters either.

I really love the open structure and the fact you don't HAVE to do quests to play and evolve.

[Tantalyr]

Aye Sigi, the adventuring quests I can think of off the top of my head include:

1) The Kion militia quest

2) The Gregory Darkstaff quest

3) The Tazoon "Discover Istaria" quest

4) The scroll delivery quest from the fellow stranded in the Blizzard east of Mahagra

5) The Aroah's crystal quest (Dalimond)

6) The yew sap quest (guard outside Aughundell)

7) The maple leaf quest (Feladan)

8) The "check the guards" quest (Kirasanct)

9) The "Sentient Treant" quest (cedar forest south of Kion)

10) The quest from the dark wizard in the shaft just outside Aughundell

And I'm sure I've overlooked several other adventuring quests as well.

And oh! Those are in addition to the dragon adventurer quests given out every tenth adventuring level which grant a healthy amount of experience points.

[LaughingOtter]

Some others:

Priscilla the Shoulder Parrot (Of course )

The three Outpost quests (Saja's Research Project, the TPS reports, and the Disaffected Siblings)

The Nature Tower quests

Shears Rowbuck in Harro

The lunch quest from the guard at the Tazoon vault

Azmedai, Belial, and Sly Loki

The Ancient Sslik Clothing quest

Do we need more? Heck, yeah! Goes without saying that we do, and we always will. There is no such thing as too much content.

[FleshRoast]

... Having this kind of dynamic damage done to buildings would give crafter / construction people a mission to help keep certain machines working after attacks by the WA.

I thought this happened now. In the staging area event, where Harro road splits east-west at the bottom, there was a woodworking shop. It is now destroyed. I think events do damage community buildings.

[AA0]

Also the whole wedding quest thing

Huge pile of New Trismus quests

Envenomed arrow and spears

Tinkerer quest series

Grant Vault quests

Ballit's Island

Trandalar attunement quests

The quests just outside of kion involving the ranger

The fishing tech quests

The new outpost quests from Jatel (so far 2)