GN VS Tulga

[snickel]

Is it really up to the player to present the evidence?
I don't care who's to blame, I'm not paying until I see some positive changes.

GN has, as far as I know, said more than TG, so it is up to TG to even the score in this game of "Bad Communication".
But that doesn't make GN any better.

It is of no importance how much and what GN says -- the important thing is whether it is the truth or not. And so far on their side there are a lot of broken promises and evasive answers.

I'd rather have someone who tells me that he has to keep mum than someone who deliberately tries to lead me into false assumptions.

[Seranthor]

Is it really up to the player to present the evidence?
I don't care who's to blame, I'm not paying until I see some positive changes.

GN has, as far as I know, said more than TG, so it is up to TG to even the score in this game of "Bad Communication".
But that doesn't make GN any better.

Sir, its not a game of 'Bad Comms' its a case of someone looks guilty as hell and now is trying desperately to cast the blame elsewhere. So far its a game of 'He said, She Said' and since GN is the one taking your money it appears to me that they have the burden of proof of why you should continue to give them your money and why you should believe them.

Thusfar I've seen nothing from GN or their new found cheerleaders to demonstrate that they are telling the truth, finally. I'm truly starting to wonder if the facts look more like the truth after you've gorged yourself on the GN Koolaid.

[Firedragon]

Wow, that was quick!

Well they ain't "taking" my money no more.

This whole situation is fubar and I don't see anything being done about it.

[Tzael]

Rather than casting dispersions Sir, lets see your evidence. Otherwise as they say down TX way its 'All Hat and no cattle'...

Evidence of what ? GN have spoken up, whatever legal agreement is meant to be stopping them speaking has been broken. Tulga have every right to stand up and make a public statement in Europe about the future of Horizons here because if there was any agreement preventing public dialogue, that agreement has been broken and no longer applies - although Tulga has every right to take GN to court in Europe if the 'contract' was signed on European soil.

I didn't see one thing put forward in my post that needs to be substantiated with evidence that doesn't already exist on public mediums owned by Game Network. Now go back to your cattle and maybe if you're a good boy I'll put in an order for a bowler hat for you

I just love how when the game first came out all these people were saying how bad GN was but now that GN has opened it's mouth and thrown the first stone they are the golden boys. Because we know it's TG fault the GN never answers any of it's service ticket, because TG is suppose to handle them also, and TG was not supplying a world master for that matter either solets throw that on them.

I am not saying that TG may not have caused some problems, but you need to look at the big picture. When some one that does not give good service oin one area starts throwing stones from another you just have to wonder.

If you're referring to me, I still detest GN with venomosity. I've put up with their nonsense since Mir2, and I am definitely not letting GN off. Now that GN have put on the boxing gloves, Tulga has not only the legal right, but also my support to don sword and shield and slay the foul beast.

[Seranthor]

So let me get this right... GN screwed the lot of Mir2 folks over, but this time they are absolutely innocent because they make some snide, backhandedly vague comments? Follow the money mate, you'll find out where its going, your bright enough to figure it out.

PS. Your buddies at GN sir are about as honest as a Centauri trying to jockey for the emperor's throne.

[tramsan]

Sometimes you truly baffle, Seranthor.

No one has said that GN is great and shiny. What has been said is that now GN has at least thrown the first stone. That doesn't mean they are without sin.

[LaughingOtter]

Assuming there is a contract that prohibits both parties from talking about each other, the fact that one party breaches it doesn't give the other party a free pass to do so as well.

[snickel]

Assuming there is a contract that prohibits both parties from talking about each other, the fact that one party breaches it doesn't give the other party a free pass to do so as well.

Thank you for that clarification, Laughing Otter.

[Tzael]

Wow. Only 16 days to get moved to the Unity forum.

Not that it matters. I'm beginning to sense that allocating what little there is of my free time to Horizons is a waste of time. Tulga, you should be flattered that out of the roughly 4 hours of free time a week I can muster up, half gets allocated to Horizons. That doesn't leave a lot of free time for anything else. I'd rather be an advocate of your game than be forced to tell the truth to those who ask: In Unity's darkest hour, Tulga didn't have the big hairy gooseberries to stand up and say or do something.

[snickel]

Wow. Only 16 days to get moved to the Unity forum.

Not that it matters. I'm beginning to sense that allocating what little there is of my free time to Horizons is a waste of time. Tulga, you should be flattered that out of the roughly 4 hours of free time a week I can muster up, half gets allocated to Horizons. That doesn't leave a lot of free time for anything else. I'd rather be an advocate of your game than be forced to tell the truth to those who ask: In Unity's darkest hour, Tulga didn't have the big hairy gooseberries to stand up and say or do something.

Tzael,

it is so difficult to interpret silence. Silence is always ambigous. One tends to read whatever one thinks is most probable / most expected into it. When you ask someone for help and he is silent, you most likely interpret that as unwillingness to help.

TULGA has kept silent, but it is not clear why. GN has become verbose, and it is all too clear whats the matter, they try to shift the blame.

I find it quite a different experience to play hz on TULGA than on GN. I read posts in the forum where someone asks for help and what became of his support ticket and he gets an immediate and non-evasive answer -- that almost brings tears to my eyes. I have the impression that TULGA treats its customers much better than GN treats its customers. And because of that I find the idea that TULGA does not help Unity because it really cannot, not because of unwillingness, alltogether much more likely.

I think GN achieved what they wanted to, they managed to shift the focus onto TULGA. It makes me angry (not at you, mind you, but at the world in general) that they succeeded.

[Seranthor]

Wow. Only 16 days to get moved to the Unity forum.

Not that it matters. I'm beginning to sense that allocating what little there is of my free time to Horizons is a waste of time. Tulga, you should be flattered that out of the roughly 4 hours of free time a week I can muster up, half gets allocated to Horizons. That doesn't leave a lot of free time for anything else. I'd rather be an advocate of your game than be forced to tell the truth to those who ask: In Unity's darkest hour, Tulga didn't have the big hairy gooseberries to stand up and say or do something.

Tzael, werent you one of those ones that gave one of those long winded boohoo goodbyes and said you were quitting? Let me ask you this, just because GN has the ethics of common street thugs you think that TG should sink to that level to satisfy your morbid curiousity? Perhaps you should be the one that checks on their 'big hairy gooseberries'.

[snickel]

Tzael, werent you one of those ones that gave one of those long winded boohoo goodbyes and said you were quitting? Let me ask you this, just because GN has the ethics of common street thugs you think that TG should sink to that level to satisfy your morbid curiousity? Perhaps you should be the one that checks on their 'big hairy gooseberries'.

Stop picking on Tzael, Seranthor. Right now.

If you had followed Tzaels postings on the GN forums in these last months you would know that here is a player who has gone to great lengths to fight it out with GN. And they tried to shut up Tzael, even banning the postings which were, as far as I could tell, always to the point and in the interest of a good game experience. While other players gave up, Tzael never did.

I have played with Tzael on Unity and that sslik was one of the best, kindest, funniest and most helpful players around. Which is saying a lot, if you know anything about the Unity community.

Tzael shares the despair of the Unity players. GN stonewalls us -- some (like me) have decided to leave that shard for good, others (like Tzael) haven't given up the fight. GN has brought that fight to TULGA's door. And if Tzaels now tries to kick down that door its because this seems to be the only hope left.

So stop picking on one of the best and knowledgeable players this game has, will you?

[Seranthor]

Ma'am,

With respect, there are many things that are never publicly disclosed about many situations. Not all abuses of power, moral corruption or financial misconduct are always publicly disclosed. However, I will say this, not all that you see is true, and not all that is hidden is false.

Certainly anyone that purports to want to 'follow the letter of the rules' has to accept that expectation in their actions elsewhere. Perhaps the lessons of his experiences on the GN board may prove that Karma does exist.

I dont claim TG to be innocent in this matter, yet I see no evidence of their alleged raging guilt and thats all I'm asking to see before they are convicted and taken into the city square and drawn and quartered.

[snickel]

(...)

I dont claim TG to be innocent in this matter, yet I see no evidence of their alleged raging guilt and thats all I'm asking to see before they are convicted and taken into the city square and drawn and quartered.

Exactly my opinion as well. Yet I find that there are ways to talk about that without getting ugly and personal.

The way I see it, there are several possibilities:

a) GN alone is at fault (I think a large number of Unity players, including myself, see it that way)

b) TULGA is mostly at fault (GN has tried to suggest that and among Unity players I have not found anyone who believes that dross)

c) TULGA is partly to blame due to some bungled information flow (some Unity players have bought that -- I think its a lie, but thats because I do not believe anything GN states)

d) TULGA is partly at fault because there is a way that they could put pressure on GN and they don't. Thats what I would call the 'hope-blame'. It is what most Unity players hope is the case, because if that were so than the situation could change for the better. Tulga could decide to kick GNs ****** and things would improve. Its is here that I see Tzaels point of view.

My own opinion, als stated before, is a). If there is anything that I could accuse TULGA of, than it is this:

Tulga, how on earth could you enter a business agreement with a company like GN (well-known for destroying games in the past) that binds your hands and has you watch helplessly while a game that you care for is ruined in Europe?