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Thread: Nadia and the Blight Update

  1. #21

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    Actually Nadia would be gone right now I'm sure if it werent for other issues.

    I hunted all my comps for my first set of real tech'd armor. It was a blast for me. The whole point is it 's supposed to be a challenge. Yes, many seem to like being hand feed in this game. Everything needs to be easy. I guess to eahc their own.

    To this day I have not gone out of my way to stock comps. And I will not buy them before the price goes up. I will go hunt them as I always have.

    The only plus I see as far as Nadia is concerned, is that it was nice to rush and buy comps when they were needed before a nerf that was going to happen and you didn't have time to hunt them. Other then that cut her throat, the sooner the better

    Jayne

  2. #22

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    Understand, please, that I almost always hunt for my own tech comps, and have very rarely purchased from Nadia. My concern--a very troubling one--is the direction the developers are taking with respect to the crafting aspect of the game.

    There are a goodly number of subscribers who enjoy crafting far more than adventuring. More than a few would just as soon take lugnuts off with their teeth than hunt, but they adore crafting items and building structures and lairs. Indeed, Horizons was originally launched with the crafting element heavily emphasized.

    There was a time in this fair Land when a crafter could craft anything to his/her heart's content with few adventuring levels, and still make goodly coin doing so. But things have changed. Dramatically changed.

    It started, I suppose, just before the Merge when large numbers of players left the game. The greatly reduced player base inevitably resulted in a very tiny demand among players for crafted items. So crafters turned to the pawnbrokers for coin--the only steady, reliable purchasers for their wares.

    Then the developers came through and sledgehammered the pawnbrokers. And yes, while their are some ways of lessening the tremendous impact of this supernerf--like porting to every pawnbroker scattered throughout Istaria to sell your wares--the blow to the craft-centric players was, and still is, substantial, for they no longer have any steady, reliable way to earn good coin.

    Next up, of course, was the developers' stated intention to make Tier VI resources so uncommonly rare (such as radiant wisps) or extraordinarily difficult to gather and process (such as blighting all thornwood trees) that many craft-centric players hoping to advance beyond Tier V gathering, processing, crafting and building have just shrugged off that hope as unattainable.

    But apparently the developers have decided that two sledgehammers aren't enough. Now they have decided that the one steady, reliable source of tech comps, Nadia, will triple her prices. They might as well have simply removed her altogether, for I cannot imagine any player purchasing components from her now.

    Here's the nub of it, folks--this game is no longer craft-centric. Shoot, it's barely craft-friendly. It appears to me that the developers have made the decision to make Horizons adventure-centric, with crafting but a tiny subsidiary aspect of the game.

    Now that doesn't affect me much. My dwarf has three melee classes at 100 and will soon get his fourth there. My dragon is an Ancient.

    But I do worry about that not-insignificant segment of our still small player base who just want to craft, who hearkened to all the good publicity about Horizons' crafting system. Must we really deliberately relegate them to insignificance?
    Before you criticize anyone, walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticize him, you'll be a mile away. And you'll have his shoes.

  3. #23

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    I strongly disagree with you Tantalyr.
    The hard to get tech comps are very very rarely anything to do with crafting, they are almost always resource type mobs that can be farmed and slaughtered with ease, and are very often available on Aidan for dirt cheap. I see mithril golem frags come back so often I stopped putting them up for sale, at a fraction the Nadia price, so this isn't hurting crafters.

    I also believe the pawnbroker thing isn't all that bad. Numerous times I've crafted for cash and been able to make very very good money still. There is nothing wrong with the changes as of yet, they are trying to make crafting less repeatitive and grinding it seems, not just kill it.

  4. #24

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    If they can correct some crazy rare mob spawns to compensate ( Zombie Ogres ), then this will not be that huge of a deal.

    Is it just me, or shouldn't every single zombie ogre have at least 1 toe I can chop off of the dead body? Increase toe drop rate, or increase spawns of them. Veteran Abomination Chest skulls are used in too many techs. I've had a set of 10 scales require 40 of just this decently rare comp. Switch a few techs to use different t5 items.

    Something else that seems rather fun and interesting, make the blight wisps on satyr islands have a chance to drop a random t5 comp (from a list of comps that drop from other t5 mobs on that island). Try and inject a little fun into the t5 comp hunting process. I have to agree that alot of what the dev's have done lately seem to be without any regards to "fun" whatsoever.

    <-- Imagination for hire. Fun awaits

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helcat
    This is more likely than not a first step in getting rid of Nadia entirely anyway.
    It might as well be the last step at getting rid of her. Why not just convert her into the PC component consigner if tripling her current prices? I don't think even if I had the money (which I don't) to pay those silly prices that I would anyway. Again, this isn't a change that I would like to see, but since it's bound to happen, might as well give us what's in store now.

  6. #26

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    Hmm.... from a slightly outside view, as I've not played since Feb/March. (Yup, still have my accounts though). I am one that always tried to hunt for my own comps. You want to see patience, watch a mostly single classed level 90 monk/disciple try to hunt on the islands. I eventually did it over a few MONTHS ( I think 3 of casual hunting/dying). Yeah, I did end up buying/begging some toes. But when I was done it was an EVENT. I had a great sense of accomplishment.

    I think they are trying to do a 2 pronged approach. Increasing the player 'economy' by making players do the hunting, and also making a greater sense of accomplishment to finally have a set.

    There are a few things at work here and I see both sides.

    I think the attempt is to try to restore the 'player economy' but with some drops still broken it becomes very, very hard to take as a 'fix'. Here are the random points.

    1. People have no other thing to spend their money on.

    2. They want to make techs RARE. A fully teched out tool/outfit should be an accomplishment. It should be an event to finally have the parts. Nowadays it's more of an accomplishment to FIND someone to craft your stuff than it is to actually gather the parts. Hehe... Anyways, You can't make things MORE rare now without ticking SOMEONE off. People consider it a 'nerf'. Also there will be folks who follow the laws of Economics and spend a multitude of gold (see 1), on buying low and selling later since the track record of 'fixes' is very low. It may be a year before things like ZOmbie toe drops are raised and until then the 'investors' are seeing an almost 3x return on their investment.

    3. At the cap, there is no other way to improve your character other than raising another class or better equipment.


    Now addressing the FUN question.

    From my personal point of view, what would get me logging in consistantly was chatting with friends and being able to do a Zen like hour of grinding away at some task or goal and seeing improvement. Knowing that there was some sort of visible improvement as I went on.

    Having Tier VI being so rough pretty much means that once I cap, that's it. I will give up on trying to level tier VI. It's like me watching my friends play really high level characters in other MMORPGs...
    Today your XXXXX Skill has increased .000000018%!
    It's not like Wish or GuildWars with a pretty flat power curve and/or a LOW level cap. There the intent was that you hit a certain limit to your abilities and then you take on more and more content. Since this game HAS almost no new content coming in on a regular basis, we content ourselves with levelling up.

    I know a few folks that are saying 'once I finish my lair' or 'once I finish off my last few classes' I'm done. Well... they ARE, there's nothing left to aspire to.

    Sorry for the randomness of thoughts. Brain is scattered.

    -HratLi

  7. #27

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    If drop rates and/or spawn rates are going to be adjusted to make some of these drops more obtainable, then that is something that we need to know and which should go in to effect AT THE SAME TIME as this change, not weeks or months later.

    When golem frags were selling for 30-50 silver on Twilight, there were times I was ready to quit because it wasn't fun in the slightest. Can we not go down that road again, please?
    Klaus Wulfenbach
    Mithril Council, Chaos
    "Death is fleeting. Pride is forever."


    "Let us have faith that right makes might, and in that faith, let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."-- Abraham Lincoln

  8. #28
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaughingOtter
    If drop rates and/or spawn rates are going to be adjusted to make some of these drops more obtainable, then that is something that we need to know and which should go in to effect AT THE SAME TIME as this change, not weeks or months later.

    Can we not go down that road again, please?

    I could not have said it better myself, I agree with this completely and totally. You correct the problem FIRST, not destroy what the players have found to workaround the problem that You created in the first place. If You want to remove the workaround remove the need for it.
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


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  9. #29

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    hmmm crafters need comps they cant get without adv...adv have or can get comps but need armor from crafters...hmmm what can i do about this hmmm...*ponders* AHHA! i'll blast the devs! yes that's the answer!!!

    nadia and her kind are here because the server populations dropped to low for the game model to function. there werent enough adv around to help crafters get the comps they needed and there werent enough crafters around to make the items. nadia was a wonderfull fix when there were only 20 people playing but now that the game has started to bounce back they have started to restore the game back to it's original gameplay model. if you need comps a.barter/trade an adv for his services or the comps b.go get them yourself or c.join a guild that's worth being in. simple as that.
    as the player base comes back to life you will all be spoon fed less and less as more and more of the systems of this game that could function without a big enough player base start ticking again and they take out the artificial cogs they tossed in to keep the wheels turning.
    and as to the highest tier stuff in the game taking a while to make and get ahold of..good? it should be that way. now if there are 20 people sitting there when the only one of these things spawn that i would also consider a problem as having to camp things shouldnt add to the difficulty
    Rother Galant-Order
    If a dragon was hiding under a rock would you be the one to tell him he's not fooling anyone?

  10. #30

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    Actually, Nadia got in the comp business because at the merge such a massive radical change was made to comps, mobs, spawns, everything that it was the only way many comps were available. Not because of the game mechanics and server populations.

  11. #31

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    have all the techs been fixed? I remember a few asking for things like myloc hairs and the like....if there are still comps that can't be hunted and only purchased from Nadia I'd like to see these resolved before her prices skyrocket. I don't think anything could make me want to bite off her nose more than paying X * 3 for something I don't have any other way to obtain...
    'The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, ..., the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars' - Kerouac

  12. #32

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    no they haven't...

    there are still comps that the ONLY way you can get them is to buy them off Nadia, they are not dropped at all in game and haven't been for months (so that shows you how fast they are fixing those crafting recipies..)

    I too am one of those people who hunt for the majority of my techs - because I have close to no money most of the time. I can't afford Nadia right NOW, much less later.

    Pepole think armor with techs is suppose to be something that is "special" or "rare". Well guess what - as a level 90 dragon I'd be certainly more than gimped going up things my own level if I didn't have fulled teched out armor.

    That's not the wayt h is game was designed. Not from the begininng. From the beginning teched armor was something anyone can get with a bit of work, or a bit of money. It wasn't "epic uber" gear that only one person in every 5 could manage. That is how it has been since the beginning. The MOBS are designed that way too - since the beginning!!

    To try and change that now "oh wait no now we want it rare and hard and for things you're own level to be too hard...." it doesnt' work. It only pisses the loyal players off and punishes those who aren't there yet.

    Its NOT fun to hunt for a week straight on the same mob waiting for 10 things to drop. Its just not.

    Its NOT fun seeing that your armor and spells require things you can't hunt for on your own because they are far and beyond out of your means. Its not fun hoping to find a group of players willing to help and NOT and sitting AGAIN unable to get those components because you can't afford Nadia already (without a price hike). A single component on a single set of scales can be needed 10, 15, 24 times - that's several GOLD on Nadia ALREADY!

    This is ludicrious. Fix the drop rates first, fix the items that aren't even dropped at all but still required in recipies first, fix something ELSE first, before tripling or doubling or even x.02 Nadia's prices.

    Once again with no explanation, no plan released, no sign to us the players about what the heck they are doing or going with this.

    Much like several other changes in the recent past that really ticked players off - but still no explanation....

    This is just beyond ridiculous.
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
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  13. #33
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Droth
    hmmm crafters need comps they cant get without adv...adv have or can get comps but need armor from crafters...hmmm what can i do about this hmmm...*ponders* AHHA! i'll blast the devs! yes that's the answer!!!

    nadia and her kind are here because the server populations dropped to low for the game model to function. there werent enough adv around to help crafters get the comps they needed and there werent enough crafters around to make the items. nadia was a wonderfull fix when there were only 20 people playing but now that the game has started to bounce back they have started to restore the game back to it's original gameplay model. if you need comps a.barter/trade an adv for his services or the comps b.go get them yourself or c.join a guild that's worth being in. simple as that.
    as the player base comes back to life you will all be spoon fed less and less as more and more of the systems of this game that could function without a big enough player base start ticking again and they take out the artificial cogs they tossed in to keep the wheels turning.
    and as to the highest tier stuff in the game taking a while to make and get ahold of..good? it should be that way. now if there are 20 people sitting there when the only one of these things spawn that i would also consider a problem as having to camp things shouldnt add to the difficulty

    Droth, Sir, I'll take 20 Blue Vexator Fringes and 10 Kwellen Energy Nodes. Be a dear and go hunt them up quick like. I'm interested in how long it takes YOU to kill the mobs and loot them, not buy them from other players, not have them given to you, not farm the cash to buy them from Nadia.... Please return and share with us YOUR experiences.
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


    ADV: Centenarian Nature Walker; Rating: 162
    Craft: 1900 levels; Craft Rating: 234
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    No, try not! Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

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  14. #34

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    Every time I hear Vielo I think "7-11"

    Sure... you can gather the water, freeze it, shave the ice, get grapes, make some grape flavoring, add sugar, a little water, and make your own slushy type drink... or...

    go to 7-11 and buy a slurpee.

    Nadia is nothing but the Neiman Marcus of convenience stores. It's another way for the game devs to drain the excess cash from the game system. Those who want to be miserly will go out and hunt for the comps even though they have the money to purchase the comps and not even flinch, and there are those that could care less and money grows on treants, and use Nadia because they are either in a hurry to get what they want, or are incapable of getting the comps they want due to not being an Uber-Ped.

    Ok so she's raising prices, will that stop the bleeding? No... it just means that those that use her constantly will feel the pinch when they start shelling out 2-3gp for comps for a fully teched outfit.

    This is where the argument then lies... for new players, they either will have to hunt for the comps themselves, find a "sugar daddy" to buy them, or just use standard non-teched items. They "could" try earning money by PB stuff at different locations, but this takes time now and some people lack the patience to wait for that new set of armor, or teched up weapon or jewelry.

    For the vetran players, it's business as usual. I take my uber-ped, go out and mine the tech comps myself and make what I need. If I can't get the comps, I will buy them from Nadia.

    I tried to kill a blue vextor solo.... I came close but ended up dying. I would vote for a higher drop percentage of mob comps based on difficulty. Sure you can take a group of 3-5 and mop up an area, but how many fringes will you get from your efforts?
    Justa Mirage: Ranger 100 / Healer 92 / Carpentry 100 / Confectioner 100 / Fletching 92 / Weaver 62 / Gatherer 34
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  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frith-Rae
    no they haven't...

    there are still comps that the ONLY way you can get them is to buy them off Nadia, they are not dropped at all in game and haven't been for months (so that shows you how fast they are fixing those crafting recipies..)

    I too am one of those people who hunt for the majority of my techs - because I have close to no money most of the time. I can't afford Nadia right NOW, much less later.

    Pepole think armor with techs is suppose to be something that is "special" or "rare". Well guess what - as a level 90 dragon I'd be certainly more than gimped going up things my own level if I didn't have fulled teched out armor.

    That's not the wayt h is game was designed. Not from the begininng. From the beginning teched armor was something anyone can get with a bit of work, or a bit of money. It wasn't "epic uber" gear that only one person in every 5 could manage. That is how it has been since the beginning. The MOBS are designed that way too - since the beginning!!

    To try and change that now "oh wait no now we want it rare and hard and for things you're own level to be too hard...." it doesnt' work. It only pisses the loyal players off and punishes those who aren't there yet.

    Its NOT fun to hunt for a week straight on the same mob waiting for 10 things to drop. Its just not.

    Its NOT fun seeing that your armor and spells require things you can't hunt for on your own because they are far and beyond out of your means. Its not fun hoping to find a group of players willing to help and NOT and sitting AGAIN unable to get those components because you can't afford Nadia already (without a price hike). A single component on a single set of scales can be needed 10, 15, 24 times - that's several GOLD on Nadia ALREADY!

    This is ludicrious. Fix the drop rates first, fix the items that aren't even dropped at all but still required in recipies first, fix something ELSE first, before tripling or doubling or even x.02 Nadia's prices.

    Once again with no explanation, no plan released, no sign to us the players about what the heck they are doing or going with this.

    Much like several other changes in the recent past that really ticked players off - but still no explanation....

    This is just beyond ridiculous.
    Well said! and my feelings exactly.

    Think about how many options we have for gear. We have number 1) teched crafted armor; 2) unteched crafted; 3) that refurbished junk; 4) blighted equipment ("sometimes" worth using); and 5) naked. I can see why so many choose to go around in our bikinis. I, for one, being an adventurer, would rather wait until the set of gear I want will be worn for more than a couple of hours and then find the components to tech it out nicely. But, I really do feel for the younger/newer people out there. I think that's where it will hurt most. What I'd like to see are some rarer FULL armor sets for EACH class, something more difficult to obtain but worth the effort. I don't think teched crafted should be the ultimate....nice yes, but not the best.
    Last edited by Varraven; June 28th, 2006 at 08:21 PM.

  16. #36

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    ah i'm sorry all, last time i played and was a respectable level was right after launch and there wasnt much of anything around :/ *bows out of this conversation due to outdated experiances*
    Last edited by Droth; June 28th, 2006 at 08:23 PM.
    Rother Galant-Order
    If a dragon was hiding under a rock would you be the one to tell him he's not fooling anyone?

  17. #37

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    It is fascinating to read all the varied posts in this thread. I'm not a bit suprised that the developers have finally gotten around to changing the Vielo, with ( I hope ) the end result being them taken out of the game completly.

    One question that would be valuable to have an answered though is, what exactly do each of us find fun? Is accomplishment fun? Making friends by crafting for others? Making money? Doing it all for ourselves? Crafting only? Adventuring only?

    Can we all expect to have our vision of fun, at the expense or inspite of others vision of fun? Cand the devs ever hope to satisfy ALL of us at the same time? NO? Well then, I guess we need to decide if we are having fun still or not. Does it suprise you to know that new players oftendeclare how much fun this game is and how much they love playing? I wonder why that is.

    Any efforts to get players to interact more, I'm in full favor of. Helping the game continue is all I have interest in here. I don't expect all us vets to stick around, since some changes will be more than some players level of expected comfort can stand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with accomplisments taking effort. New players will grow up with a much more balanced view than us old timers. New players are the future of this game. Vets that can adjust to the changes can stick around and help the new ones learn the ropes. I agree that the devs do seem to have a loyalty issue with veteran players. All I can figure is they have chosen the new player over the old. Emblems, titles and such fluff is fun, but is not a true reward for all of us that have stuck it out. We need more... more events, more purpose, more of a reason to stay. These are just my views, and in no way reflect the views of the entire player base nor the devs or management.

    By all means, express any view and declare your feelings about any of the changes coming soon, perhaps they will see a need to adjust them a bit.

  18. #38

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    Wow...I must say...I am very impressed! I fully expected my post to generate lots and lots of ranting/flaming and it did not happen.

    I have read through all the posts...found lots of interesting ideas, both those I do and do not agree with. I can only hope that the Dev's read this post and learn something from it...even if they chose not to post a reply.

    Some points I really liked and will expand upon:

    Teched Items should be good, but not the best. One of the better suggestions I saw and fully agree with. Yes, there are some rare items out there, Demon Weapons, and that Shield quest that involves Daknor (or Fafnir??). That's fine and dandy...if you happen to have an extremely high rating already. Where are the mythic/legendary weapons/armor? I'm not talking about another Zealot...a good crafter and some cogs can whoop the Zealot's Damage output.

    Fix the problem first: Several comments were made concerning the drop rate. Again I whole heartedly agree...and is the primary reason people turn to Nadia in the first place...not because they have coin to burn. Those rare comp drops (which have been mentioned several times: VGV's, Fringes, ZOT's, ACS's, etc) When a group of hunters can spend hours, days, maybe even weeks to hunt for one person's need...what is the likelihood of comp farmers being able to supply Sir Aidan, let alone hunters supplying the crafter comps for their new armor/weapons? Slim to nil IMO.

    Tantalyr also has some very good points...something which does concern me as well. Do I hunt? Yes. But my preference by far is crafting (along with many others) I don;t know about the other craft-centric (I like the term btw) but if crafting is pushed away as a 'nice' addition to the game and Adventuring is the new 'game'...in all likelihood I may leave...maybe not completely, but will probably drop 2, 3 or 4 of my subscriptions.

    Dev's haven't come right out and said so, but we can all tell that it is going to be quite sometime before the level cap raise and T6 is fully implimented. Well talking to many crafters that DO T6 work...their job would be nearly impossible or significantly hampered if not for teched gear...this is a place where teched gear is a NECESSITY...not a 'nicety' as someone previously mentioned.

    My basic point though...one "fix" can't be rammed through, which for the moment, seems to be there only to line the pockets of the already rich. Several have stated...if the point is to fix the economy...don;t fix one aspect, wait 6 months to a year to fix the second and so on. They must be fixed all at once or the imblance remains the same or worsens.

    I would much rather see the status quo remain the same for a year if it gave the Dev's time to tweak, plan, change things, test, test, and test somemore; and then impliment it all at once. That way...every one is affected across the board.

    PS...this post may seem a bit...haphazard...the problems with thinking parallel thoughts and not linearly.
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  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaelefein
    My basic point though...one "fix" can't be rammed through, which for the moment, seems to be there only to line the pockets of the already rich. Several have stated...if the point is to fix the economy...don;t fix one aspect, wait 6 months to a year to fix the second and so on. They must be fixed all at once or the imblance remains the same or worsens.

    I would much rather see the status quo remain the same for a year if it gave the Dev's time to tweak, plan, change things, test, test, and test somemore; and then impliment it all at once. That way...every one is affected across the board.
    In an ideal world, sure. But in the meantime, the game needs new blood, and new players. If the game were to remain stagnant for a year in terms of economy, do you think it will attract any new players to the game? Do you think veteran players won't get frustrated by the lack of changes and leave? Also, how exactly do you test, tweak and make changes to balance a player economy without actually releasing those changes to the player base at large?

    Things need to be done little by little, and their impacts felt, and adjusted for. Also, the changes need to be somewhat more painful at first, otherwise the playerbase and the economy gets flooded with items, or comps, or whatever (*cough*crystals*cough*) and become worthless before the 'nerf' happens later. So, by 'nerfing' things ahead of time, and making it more difficult at first, and then making it easier later, we get less of a sour taste in our mouth by things ending on a better note, and the Devs get to keep the balance they were going for to begin with.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aamer Khan
    I agree that the devs do seem to have a loyalty issue with veteran players. All I can figure is they have chosen the new player over the old. Emblems, titles and such fluff is fun, but is not a true reward for all of us that have stuck it out.
    Personally, I'd rather see more players come into the game, which provides more money for Tulga, so they can hire more Devs, which allows them to complete more work more quickly, so we can all be rewarded.

    All the marketing that we've been seeing and hearing about from Ophelea and Co. (Peter S. Beagle, etc.) has been drawing new players in. Keeping those new players once they arrive is critical to the long term survival (and most importantly - GROWTH) of the game, hence all the effort lately on the newbie areas and tutorial.

    It's not a loyalty issue. It's a survival issue. Plain and simple. Everyone needs to calm down and quite taking things so ******** personally.

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