Should dragons and bipeds be more equal?
what do you would like to have?
is the biped system better?
-no quests to get abilities
-unlimited multiclassing
-combining powers
is the dragon system better?
-very very limited multiclassing
-for near every ability an "interesting" killing task?
or should the gasp between this 2 fractions increase?
-make "biped-only" islands/caverns/towns/hunting areas?
-restrict somehow the groups with mixed fractions?
I feel there should be differences but parallels. I would like to see some biped only places. I do not have a problem if biped buildings are to small for me as a ancient to fit. Thier should still be links going each way but there should also be diffrences.
Since Dragons and Bipeds are different, skills, abilities, and characteristics will never be "equal".
Each system is right for it's purpose. Neither is "better", and you really could not mix them at this point.
If dragons have spots that only they can get to, then to be fair to the PLAYER of other races, they too should have something distictive as well. I highlite player there, because it's the paying customer that should be treated fairly, not the race in general. Each race has it's characteristics that make it different from the others. That should never change. But if there is disparity between how one players is treated because of choice of race, then that should be fixed.
If Bipeds got areas that dragons could not go, then yes that would at least bring it more into balance. That or allow bipeds to go anywhere a dragon can go. I really wonder why, since we are all banded together to fight the WA, bipeds or dragons should have seperations of any kind beside what racial characteristics there are. Something at the top of a mountain that only a flying race can reach is fine. An entire island with a portal that only dragons can use is not.
There will be perpetual whines and complaints as long as there is any difference whatsoever. Not only does this include multiclassing but WHICH classes, abilities, and even size and attractiveness of the model. ANYTHING. There's a lot of "grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" syndrome which has been around since the dawn of time. People also like to leverage differences to demand goodies. They'll demand the good parts of other classes but not the bad. Or they don't even see the bad.Originally Posted by Vlisson
If bipeds and dragons are made absolutely identical in every way there will be whines and complaints because there's no difference. Some will probably be from the same people.
Many things I wouldn't mind changing -- letting bipeds come to Dralkur/Skaalkar for example -- but that isn't going to stop the whines. I never understood why they were made dragon only in the first place. It would probably increase the whines when bipeds discover how hard it is to navigate Dralkar on foot. If they're going to stay dragon only then I have no problem with biped only areas as long as it's all kept SOMEWHAT comparable
In the past, when bipeds had clear advantages, I didn't care diddly squat as long as dragons were viable. Obviously other players (both dragon and biped) are much more sensitive (i.e. nitpicky, whiny) over this then I am.
You'll never make either side perfectly happy. Either side will continue to whine constantly. Fact of the matter is each is better in their own way. I recently brought 2 new friends to HZ and they both chose to do dragon cause they felt that dragons had crafting and adventuring so much simpler. I described playing a biped as "MMOGs: ADVANCED" - it fit.
To me, this is like asking if apples and oranges should be more alike. Different doesn't mean better.
I do not think that dragons and bi-peds should have the gap between them increase. I think there should be more interaction.
Exactly.
Dragons used to be rediculously underpowered. Now it's better. Bipeds with enough classes are still more powerful and versatile.
Subscribers can play both a biped and dragon character.
A biped only area? sounds like penis envy. When dragons had an unfinished warrior based class to play, it was common sense that it needed changed. Only gold rage has made the class a decent fighter ( and current dev's think it should be nerfed. bad idea imho). Those old complaints weren't penis envy. Now theres jealous bipeds since hoard can be looted and gold rage is strong. I'll give up my gold rage if you give up all multiclassing.
Let's just pull the plugs on the servers now and get it over with
*mind boggles*
Aye.
As for the balance between dragons being able to fly and bipeds not being able to fly, that could easily be fixed by letting dragons fly bipeds around. Hell knows there's tons of dragons around enough as it is.
By the way, nothing short of gimping ancients down to level 1 hatchling power would get me to play anything but a dragon. And by then I'd just quit the game.
The grass is always greener on the other side, as the saying goes.
I don't think you'll ever achieve true "equality;" nor should it be attempted, because if everyone were equal then things would be very boring. The only difference between one character and the next would be their name and appearance. Everyone could do everything equally well. No economy there. Over time one particular playstyle becomes the dominant one.
In short, universal equality is a bad thing.
It amazes me that there's even a dragon vs. biped "thing" in this game at all. I play both, on and off, and it's just a different game-play experience. I think that it's fantastic that I can continue to play horizons when I get burnt out on one play style.
Dragons are fine, I personally wish the different races of bipeds were more different from each other (a little bit, but not so much as to make certain schools favorable to specific races)
Dragons and biped got their difference. That's fine. What is less is when there's something 'standard' to everyone else, but end up being missing for one party.
Biped got multiclass, dragon got hoard (which end having to be leveled ad-infinitum because of the hoard cost of their habilities.
Biped got plot, dragon got lairs. There is where I find there's a problem: Storage. Dragon's storage is totally patethic and useless past Tier 2 because of the increasing volume of the storage, and the capacity not following it. A lot of abilities dragon got lately were gained at the expense of other, or were totally useless. For a dragon crafter who once used biped 's easy storage, dragon storage is a joke made to dragon.
Along that one major difference between dragon and biped is that dragon, once they reached level 100, lose nearly all sence of achievement. A biped can just go pick another class and work on it. No experiece get wasted. Dragon on the other hand, waste all the expericence they get once they hit 100. Maybe the dev could design something that would turn experience into hoard or something.
Dragon Lairs: Istaria's ghetto
Rigth .. they will never be equal. This started from the day the decide on crafting class for dragon and the giving of fligth. And that is all I'm gonna say.
Like Aamer Khan say .. if you give to the left side you need to give on the rigth side. (ie: if dragon can fly to cross mountain and river, will they give byped swimming and climbing). This is a nigthmare for gamee developper's they cannot work on evrything at same time. So they give to one side. The other ********** for imbalance, then they get their goodies and the fist side ********** because they didn't get love for a long time or they lost their davantage.
No matter what , we will never be 100% satisfyed of what the devs hand's out. The only suggestion I can give to devs is what AK said ... "" they too should have something ""
Nalrach, Healer & Guardian, Member of the "Iron Circle" guild
Ramti, Friendly draggy trying to wake-up from long nap.
Dragoniade, you make a fine point. If Dragons storage is not on par with bipeds, then that disparity needs to be addressed as well. What is fair for the duke, is fair for the drake.
Never do I want to see racial differences go away, since it defines the character. But equality for the player of the character should at all times be maintained. All players of all races should have equal chances, equal storage, equal access ( unless a racial caracteristic allows for something other races don't have like flight ) and equal opportunity to enjoy the game.
[quote=Aamer Khan] But equality for the player of the character should at all times be maintained. [quote]
But who is to say what is equal? I see things being more equal then you do. There is always going to think some one else has more then they do.
But Aamer, therein exists the issue, dragon storage is without a doubt better for storing item stacks. One has but to try and find a biped plot with a T5 Guild hall, T4 Guild Hall, a T3 Guild Hall, at least one T2 house and two libraries on it (which grand total well over 900 individual stacks) to try and dispute my statement. Because all that will fit in the standard sized dragon lairs in ADDITION to 22 dragon silos AND all 5 of the dragon shops as well as 2 consigners and a t5 pawn broker.Dragoniade, you make a fine point. If Dragons storage is not on par with bipeds, then that disparity needs to be addressed as well. What is fair for the duke, is fair for the drake.
Never do I want to see racial differences go away, since it defines the character. But equality for the player of the character should at all times be maintained. All players of all races should have equal chances, equal storage, equal access ( unless a racial caracteristic allows for something other races don't have like flight ) and equal opportunity to enjoy the game.
NO biped plot in the game has that much room, not a single one. So for anyone to cry foul about biped vs dragon storage and claim dragon storage is substandard is either sadly misinformed or being factually dishonest.
25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.
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Not playing a dragon, I had to defer to the dragons statement.
I stand corrected.
Back to the original arguments...
Deth, equal is equal... 1 = 1.
There is no "more equal", the is only equal.
There is a distiction between a player and a toon if you will. A player may have a dragon AND a biped, or only one or the other. I'm not asking that toons be equal, but that the players behind the toons have equality.
( random thought here )
If we were ALL perfect human beings, would we all play the piano equally well? Not at all. Some would practice more, and some would like it better and try harder. But ALL would have the potential to play perfectly.
In most things we all have an equal opportunity to accomplish what we want. If we want to be uberpeds, then we can. If we want to fly then we can. Nothing to stop us but willingness on our parts. But if there is something setup by the devs that prevent that equality of potential, then many of us feel that it should get addressed.
The price and ease of procurment of T6 forms for bipeds vs. dragons, is just one example.
Thats just it we all potential to play one or the other. As said in another thread if you think the grass is greener go to the other side.
I think were are views of equal breaks down is, I like to think any way, I look at the over all picture for dragons vs the over all picture for bipeds. Yes we get forms off a trainer, but I think other things that the biped get balance that out. abd it has nothing at all to do with crafting. I am sure there are inbalances but for the most part they do not bother me that much as I feel they are more in the bipeds favor. But that is just me as a dragon player and I know it is just my view. So I do not harp on may of them.
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