Throw this ole hermit a bone

[LaughingOtter]

The old vets are disgruntled with the current handling of Tier6, because its been widely nerfed. Before it wasn't anywhere near as hard to get as it is now. They are saying "Why did you do this all the sudden!? There are people walking around with Tier6 equipment/buildings/etc that they gained much easier than the new players will bea ble to now, and that's unfair!"

There is no T6 equipment. There are a few people who have done T6 construction. That's it. The vast majority of the player base cannot and has not done anything with T6.

Your enthusiasm is commendable but you're missing some fundamental facts regarding the issue.

[Peaches]

to understand this nasty mess we seem to be in.

When I first started the game, I literally, became thrilled with the crafting aspect of it all. My first character, I created, heck, didn't know what deconstruction was, and got to 73 fletcher, but making tools. Deleting them and selling some to the pawner. When it came time for her to get oak, out in harro, she died a lot. She had no adventure to support her crafting habits.


Then, along came Heather, and for some reason, her goal was different. I started anew, worked up adventure, and learned to run from the mobs, sometimes, that wasn't possible, when they changed the radius of the agro. So, worked very very hard on her adventure, so that she could support her crafting.

Now? Why did I even do that? The mobs barely exist for the mitheral golems and the marble golems. Whatever happened to the mobs guarding the resources?

I can understand the t6 being low , to a point, but not to where they are now.

What I look for in a game, is that resources need to be supplied by the game, and not in the limited fashion that they are now being introduced as. I pay my fees for the game to have fun, and building is what is the most fun for me.

Yes, I will be the first to admit, that I have a lot of crafting schools, and I simply love, each time I pop a building, the elation that I did it by myself, or , sometimes, when the guild has time to assist me, it still feels the same, I love seeing the buildings pop.

I am not threatening to quit, as I really, truly do, enjoy Horizons, but, this issue really really needs do be addressed.

Please reconsider and at least increase the spawn some? Or, am I asking for too much here?

I truly do love Horizons, it fills my most empty days , that I experience, each and every day, in real life.

Please, please, reconsider the changing of the severity of the t6 resources.

No, I am not asking for an easy button, but to make it a bit more realistic.

Thank you

[Ophelea]

Yes its "epic" to have to camp mobs and nodes in order to get the resources you need. Yes its "special" to have to run all over istaria looking for a wisp you may never find. Even working in teams there is still going to be competition for these epic specials and those who arent able to gather them are going to be left frustrated and angry. This may even bleed over to player vs player conflict due to the shortage. This results in a less than fun time playing Horzions. A lack of player fun will lead to a revenue loss.

At the same time there continues to be a lack of information/communication about why these changes have been made. What is this grand vision and why don't we know about it? Why are we never informed? David?

The most puzzling part of all of this a company should be giving its market what it desires and to build upon its successes. This recent implementation is akin to "New Coke".

I'd seriously consider closing my account too and joining Arch on the ex-player list, but silly me signed up for a year.

Rociante

I just talked to David....

I am listening!

These are not "made" changes. This is design from inception. It's just now being felt as the content is entering the game at a greater pace.

There was no communication to be made because this simply is the game.

I'm frustrated at how best to communicate this to you all without making it worse or more confusing, so please, bear with me.

I've never played a game where I knew what the "grand design" of the entire game was. Part of this is because no developer makes this public - there's no fun in it, the players hold you to it even if the design is bad, and surprises are good.


Changes were not communicated because none have been made. What you see is what has always been intended. That being the case, what was there to say?

Complaints have been heard and addressed. It has been stated repeatedly that Tier 6 is meant to be difficult but it is also meant to be a group effort. Does this mean that there is room for improvement? Of course.

However, the team right now as I type this is working to complete the Lesser Aradoth changes that have been critical to the game's growth but which have taken longer than intended. They want off that island as much as you want them to leave. This means their ability to listen to your suggestions is limited. Complaining can't be heard.

I gather what you say and present it to them. Telling them that "people complain Tier 6 is too hard, the resources too scarce" only tells them it's working as intended. If you tell me what, where, when and perhaps a way to work with what exists (creating new isn't going to be an acceptable answer at this point with so much else going on), I will forward it.

I've lost my train of thought (I was interrupted mid-sentence). Hopefully, we can work on dialogue...and thoughtful discussion. Something I can forward.

[Dhalin]

Okay, if it was originally intended to be like THIS, then why wasn't it like this from the beginning? Now, as someone said, there are less than 10 spawn points of the resource and less than 10 treants in that blighted area right NOW.

If it was the intention to be this Super-Hard then why on Istaria were there much more, than this Before the nerf? *blink*

If there were 50 spawn points and 50 mobs before and there are suddenly 10 and 10 now, eh? I'm kinda confused here.

What they are saying, Ophelea, is that it Cannot be a Group Effort. There are far too few spawnpoints of the Mobs, and far too few Spawnpoints of the Resource nodes to make it a Group Effort. 1-2 people can wipe the whole spawn area clean now, and continue to camp it, while others are out there saying "Let us in! We want some too!".

This creates hostility between players, this creates angst, this creates frustration. The mobs are too few. If you wanted to make it harder to get, why didn't you make the mobs harder to kill? Make the mobs more plentiful so that you need MORE people to kill them safely? If there are only 10 mobs amongst 5 resource nodes... eh, a couple uberpeds could wipe the field easily.

--Dhalin

[Tantalyr]

Changes were not communicated because none have been made. What you see is what has always been intended. That being the case, what was there to say?

Umm, no changes have been made?? You're joking, right?

Have you visited the travertine area since the patch Tuesday? There was a goodly spawn of nodes and Travertine Golems there before Tuesday, and today I counted four--yes FOUR--nodes and two whole golems. That's not a change??

Have you visited the thornwood area since the patch Tuesday? Used to be a lot of (albeit blighted) trees and enough treants to get your heart pounding. Today I found one whole tree in the entire area, and four whole treants. That's not a change??

Have you visited Nadia since the patch Tuesday? Before the patch she would sell you a mithril golem fragment for 33 silver. Now the witch wants 212 silver for it. That's not a change?

Oh wait! I can just go mithril golem hunting for the fragments! Well I could before Tuesday. Last night in two hours of crawling around Mithril Canyon I found five golems. None of them dropped a fragment. That's not a change?

Come, come--please don't insult our collective intelligence and say that "changes have not been communicated because none have been made."

[LaughingOtter]

Telling them that "people complain Tier 6 is too hard, the resources too scarce" only tells them it's working as intended.

Then try this:

Reward for effort continues to be significantly out of balance. The intended effort required for T6 crafting far, far exceeds the reward this crafting offers and is demotivating to veteran players. Either the effort side of the equation needs to be adjusted, or the reward side, bearing in mind that the players cannot fairly judge the rewards without being advised of what those rewards are. If the team believes the reward side to be in balance with the current effort, at least some of the intended reward should be communicated to the players in order to motivate the veteran community again.

[Ophelea]

Umm, no changes have been made?? You're joking, right?

Have you visited the travertine area since the patch Tuesday? There was a goodly spawn of nodes and Travertine Golems there before Tuesday, and today I counted four--yes FOUR--nodes and two whole golems. That's not a change??

Have you visited the thornwood area since the patch Tuesday? Used to be a lot of (albeit blighted) trees and enough treants to get your heart pounding. Today I found one whole tree in the entire area, and four whole treants. That's not a change??

Have you visited Nadia since the patch Tuesday? Before the patch she would sell you a mithril golem fragment for 33 silver. Now the witch wants 212 silver for it. That's not a change?

Oh wait! I can just go mithril golem hunting for the fragments! Well I could before Tuesday. Last night in two hours of crawling around Mithril Canyon I found five golems. None of them dropped a fragment. That's not a change?

Come, come--please don't insult our collective intelligence and say that "changes have not been communicated because none have been made."

Ok, last post then my weekend...

Changes to DESIGN, not tweaks to points eithing design. The overall design has not been changed. That being said:

Travertine - the spawn was set at a Tier 5 rate, it has been brought down to Tier 6 levels

Thornwood - the balance is not completed

Nadia - has been explained ad nauseaum. But, as I stated in another thread: "once a new supply is found for her comps, perhaps Nadia won't have a need to sell them anymore"

Mithril Fragments - no change made


Please, take a breath, take some time off. As much as I want ever player in our game as often as possible I certainly don't want them doing anything that causes frustration.

Come back later. Try again.

[Seranthor]

I just talked to David....

I am listening!

You may be listening, but is anyone else there?

These are not "made" changes. This is design from inception. It's just now being felt as the content is entering the game at a greater pace.

Then the 'design' is seriously flawed. Because if there is a difference in 'difficult' and 'bloodlettingly painful' then its incumbent on TG to show it to the masses before so many throw their hands up in disgust and walk away.

There was no communication to be made because this simply is the game.

I'm frustrated at how best to communicate this to you all without making it worse or more confusing, so please, bear with me.

No one is blaming you ma'am, your the messenger.

I've never played a game where I knew what the "grand design" of the entire game was. Part of this is because no developer makes this public - there's no fun in it, the players hold you to it even if the design is bad, and surprises are good.

Good suprises are good, bad design choices and the unwillingness to acknowledge or correct them is not good, its a knife in the back.

Changes were not communicated because none have been made. What you see is what has always been intended. That being the case, what was there to say?

Something has changed, lest the current insurrection would not be occuring.

Complaints have been heard and addressed. It has been stated repeatedly that Tier 6 is meant to be difficult but it is also meant to be a group effort. Does this mean that there is room for improvement? Of course.

Where is the line between difficult and totally worthless to invest your time in?

However, the team right now as I type this is working to complete the Lesser Aradoth changes that have been critical to the game's growth but which have taken longer than intended. They want off that island as much as you want them to leave.

How many LA reworks, changes, or revamps have to be done to 'Get it right' finally?

This means their ability to listen to your suggestions is limited. Complaining can't be heard.

Some things never do change, failure to learn from the mistakes of ones past allows one to repeat them until death or bankruptcy.

I gather what you say and present it to them. Telling them that "people complain Tier 6 is too hard, the resources too scarce" only tells them it's working as intended. If you tell me what, where, when and perhaps a way to work with what exists (creating new isn't going to be an acceptable answer at this point with so much else going on), I will forward it.

You mean give them the methods how not to correct it?

TWO years ago Nadia and Friends became part of our lives to provide, at greatly elevated prices, materials that TG had deem necessary but for whatever reason there wasn't enough of an availability for. Rather than correct the availability problem (the drop rates of the components) TG choses to effectively remove Nadia without addressing the reason she was presented in the first place. For two years now there have been many suggestions on correcting the reason for Nadia's existence however it appears its been completely ignored in favor of just eliminating her with no further action.

How about addressing things that are ALREADY broken before breaking more things and then labelling them as 'its working as intended, finally'

Is turning the remaining 4 servers into virtual ghost towns 'working as intended, finally' also or is that a mistake? or an error in judgment or design?

I've lost my train of thought (I was interrupted mid-sentence). Hopefully, we can work on dialogue...and thoughtful discussion. Something I can forward.

[Seranthor]

Please, take a breath, take some time off. As much as I want ever player in our game as often as possible I certainly don't want them doing anything that causes frustration.

Come back later. Try again.

Folks will take that deep breath and take some time off (read permanently) after then cancel their HZ subs and they'll move to another game with their money. And if TG alienates them enough they wont 'come back later'

At the current rate of non-change its reasonably evident that soon there will be more than enough resources to go around because the population will drop so low that the resource issues will most likely become a non-issue.

[Ophelea]

At the current rate of non-change its reasonably evident that soon there will be more than enough resources to go around because the population will drop so low that the resource issues will most likely become a non-issue.

But you'll stay, Ser?

I'd miss you.

[LaughingOtter]

As much as I want ever player in our game as often as possible I certainly don't want them doing anything that causes frustration.

Ophelea, in the past couple of days, since these CHANGES were made, two players who have put enough time into this game to master ALL 19 crafting schools have quit. That's a sign that the frustration level is very very real and it is climbing.

I believe that there will be adjustments and that we don't know all the facts, but that doesn't matter because a very large section of the player base does not.

This may be as designed, but so was hoard leak. Just because it's "as designed" doesn't mean this part of the design is good for the game.

[Seranthor]

But you'll stay, Ser?

I'd miss you.

I've spent more time on the forums today than I have spent playing since that patch where all my video def settings got wasted. And with all the non-changes I'm reading about my desire to log in is about zero. I'd sooner go to a hip-hop club on karoke night and try and sing some Hank Williams Sr.

[LaughingOtter]

One more thing...

This means their ability to listen to your suggestions is limited. Complaining can't be heard.

The people posting in this thread are not complaining. They are pleading not to be driven away by frustration and disappointment.

[Seranthor]

Ophelea, in the past couple of days, since these CHANGES were made, two players who have put enough time into this game to master ALL 19 crafting schools have quit. That's a sign that the frustration level is very very real and it is climbing.

Add another 1900 crafter Klaus, I've not hit the cancel button yet, but its been almost 3 weeks since I logged in and have stayed longer than 5 minutes.

[Aria]

Over and over its been stated that T6 is to be a 'group effort'? Hahahaha thats pretty funny with 3 radiant wisps, 2 thornwood treants, and 4 trav nodes. Group huh? for what? the 30 minute run to find these things? and the 5 minute space of harvesting them? Come on gang, put your running shoes on, I need 6 people to accompany me on the long boring run from Morning Light and provide moral support while I harvest alllll those nodes, woo hoo!

/sarcasm off

[Dhalin]

You'd think that all of these vets quitting would tell the Devs that their design is NOT working, and it is NOT making players happy.

When we Newbies/Middlebies see these Endgame people leaving, we start getting worried that our future is bleak, as well.

Isn't the company supposed to be trying to make their clientelle happy, to increase their profits? With ALL of these people pleading and begging, why aren't the Devs going "Hmm. Okay, you guys have a point. We wanted it to be this way, but it seems our playerbase doesn't like it, so we shoudl listen to them some more."

When you lose subscription after subscrption, after sobscription, aren't you guys a little bit worried? Its not like you have Millions of Subscribers like WoW does. No offense, Tulga, but it doesn't look like you really can afford the loss of all of these vets. The vets teach the new players how to do things, they help the newer players attain their RoPs, their teched gear, etc. They help the community by building world projects, they partake in these events you Devs work so hard on.

Without the vets, where would this game be? Nobody could participate in these HIGH level events, nobody could build any of the higher tier World Projects, nobody could do much of any of this stuff...

Its sad to see that the Devs are putting their foot down and saying "This is the way we want it, and that's FINAL. We don't care what the majority of our playerbase wants. We want what WE want, and that's All." even if it costs you a few dozen subs...

--Dhalin

[Duergos]

Here is the bottom line folks. David Bowman is very stong willed. He will never ever in a million years admit a mistake. We can whine and complain all we want. They DO NOT care.

Our only recourse is to bend over and smile.....or quit.

As has been stated before, it is clear their focus is on new players. I personally believe it is their goal to thin the herd of high level players so the new ones feel they have a purpose.....

[Peaches]

They have done much for the game , since the merge took place, a LOT of good for the game, actually!

[Seranthor]

Peaches ma'am, it would be an interesting thing to see how many paying subs they had the day the merge began and compared it to the number of paying subs they have today. I'd bet that today's number is far lower than the merge day number.

[Helcat]

You'd think that all of these vets quitting...

ONE person has stated they left due to these changes.
The OTHER person who left a Goodbye post clearly stated
he was leaving due to RL issues. Exaggerate much?

*shakes his head at the melodramatics running rampant in this thread*