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Thread: The theory of the boiling frog.

  1. #21

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    I'm sorry you feel that cynical about the game Seranthor, but everything I say about growth, increasing numbers, etc. isn't my opinion or my lack of cynicism compared to your feelings on all this.

    Growth and retention numbers are cold, hard statistics that show the game is garnering support in the form of more subscriptions as well as new players trying out what we have and deciding to stay. Argue all you want, quote all the situations where you feel the world is dying (this isn't the first time I've heard it either), but as long as more money is coming in, more players are deciding to stay than those that decide to leave, I'll will stand by my statements that the game is growing because, well, by all terms and definitions it is. Hell, a few days ago we even got a huge surprise from two of the game's players: stacks of dev-food from Dominos. All they wanted to do was say thanks for helping improve their experience.
    "We live only ONE REAL DAY, during which we recall false memories of living many more."
    Is it today?
    "No."

  2. #22

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    bah lumi you beat me to that point, i was looking for the quotes from smeglor about mob balancing against teched gear. :P
    Brazius of the Five awaiting the Feast

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineux
    Wait, techs are "optional and luxurious" now?
    I'm an intern, not a lead developer. If you want to twist my words into whatever official statement you want to see I can't stop you. I was merely trying to illustrate that never have fully-teched suits of gear every tier been a requirement in enjoying the game. Nothing regarding an official standpoint has been made, only a personal analysis of the current attitude towards everyone always wanting everything with as little work as possible.

    To be honest all the fighting I've done on Genesis has been with unteched gear. This is just my playing around though.
    "We live only ONE REAL DAY, during which we recall false memories of living many more."
    Is it today?
    "No."

  4. #24

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    Ok, Hal, ophelia, mods and devs...

    Here is where we stand...

    We vets have been through the good times and the bad, and have stuck it out. We have, ( or should have ) All the teched gear we need, and ease of leveling craft and adv. Up to now, even events with t6 const. have been finished toot sweet. There is little for us to do that matches our skill levels. Yes, we can grind out a few more levels here or there, and we can attempt the near impossible and put up t6 shops to work on the next 3 years. But I'll be honest and say that such things will not be considered fun by anyone, and that it won't hold our attention for long.


    I don't think any of us want the easy road any longer. I do believe that we want to have a reason, if we have to work in a game. Need a bridge built to open up a new resource area? We will GLADLY jump right on that. Need a new TOWN built to play a part in the developing lore? WE are your man. Want us to blindly have faith in vague promises of "things in the pipe"?

    Well, there you have a problem.

    Here is a suggestion for you. If YOU believe in the game as much as is claimed, and IF you believe in your crew to pull off the wonderful plans you have, then take the risk of telling us a few of those plans, AND a rough time line of what your planning.

    Please give us all a bit of credit and realize that many of us program for a living, and WE have to give those that pay us timelines, and meet deadlines. We, after all, are the paying players that collectivly pay your salaries... assuming your not running off investment capital alone.

    Or am I totally off base here?

  5. #25
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
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    Hal`cyon,

    Do YOU truly expect me or anyone else to believe that we have as many paying subscriptions as there were in April 2004? Your claim of 'growing' is compared to what baseline? Certainly we may have a few more paying subs as compared to the day the judge was trying to decide to let you keep the lights on.

    You claim cold, hard statistics, yet offer none of them for our review. So I'll ask you very bluntly, Do we have more paying subs than April 2004. If you can honestly say yes, then we are 'growing', if you say anything but, then we are still trying to recover from the losses of the past.

    You can try and argue against my feelings and opinions, they have been cultivated by the actions and inactions of the past, the blithe dismissals of concerns of myself and others, the innumerable friends that have cancelled and moved on, of those that are so disheartened in the current state of affairs and those that are so tired of being bled dry of their patience and faith.

    So I await your answer to the comparsion of your cold, hard statistics.
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


    ADV: Centenarian Nature Walker; Rating: 162
    Craft: 1900 levels; Craft Rating: 234
    DRGN: Lunus, Adult, 100 DRAG, 100 DCRA, 100 DLSH, Expert Lairshaper (Chaos-04)

    No, try not! Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

    If the enemy presents an opportunity, take advantage of it - Sun Tzu

    Having problems with my right to speak? Report me or click here *Ignore Seranthor*

  6. #26
    Ophelea
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor
    Hal`cyon,

    Do YOU truly expect me or anyone else to believe that we have as many paying subscriptions as there were in April 2004? Your claim of 'growing' is compared to what baseline? Certainly we may have a few more paying subs as compared to the day the judge was trying to decide to let you keep the lights on.

    So I await your answer to the comparsion of your cold, hard statistics.
    All numbers of growth, retention and increased conversion are as of May 2005. That's when I started and when I started tracking it.

    That's after the "black" period...when we felt HZ could be slowly brought into the public eye again.

  7. #27
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
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    I'm sure that the numbers from before the first exodus still exist, you know back when there were more than just Order and Chaos, back when we had login queues. Comparing now to then is the only honest way to decide 'growth'. I can accept that population numbers have 'improved' since May 2005, but there is a factual difference in improving and growing. and yes, I'm not making it easy and I'm not buying the sunshine song today.
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


    ADV: Centenarian Nature Walker; Rating: 162
    Craft: 1900 levels; Craft Rating: 234
    DRGN: Lunus, Adult, 100 DRAG, 100 DCRA, 100 DLSH, Expert Lairshaper (Chaos-04)

    No, try not! Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

    If the enemy presents an opportunity, take advantage of it - Sun Tzu

    Having problems with my right to speak? Report me or click here *Ignore Seranthor*

  8. #28
    Ophelea
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor
    I'm sure that the numbers from before the first exodus still exist, you know back when there were more than just Order and Chaos, back when we had login queues. Comparing now to then is the only honest way to decide 'growth'. I can accept that population numbers have 'improved' since May 2005, but there is a factual difference in improving and growing. and yes, I'm not making it easy and I'm not buying the sunshine song today.
    If I sing it to you??

    And yes, I can spin. It's what I do well.

    But, looking at the spreadsheet, they're positive. Some very much so.

  9. #29

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    EDIT: You know what? Nevermind. This whole thing has left far to bitter of a taste in my mouth.
    Lumineux Talar

  10. #30
    Ophelea
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineux
    EDIT: You know what? Nevermind. This whole thing has left far to bitter of a taste in my mouth.
    Try Lemonade, works well for me.

    And dang, this is a hard letter to write.

    j00 all tax my skillz.

  11. #31

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    At launch I joined Horizons. It didn't take long before I was working hard to make money to buy a plot. Yes I ground gems and sold to PB. I also got the skill to join the fitter and mason schools to start work on the new plot. Structures had no use at that time, but I built for enjoyment and to show off my new plot to the world.
    After changes allowed me to rotate my house to face the village green at Morning Light and silos became usefull I redid the plot. I had planned to redo again when Merge hit. I was able to get a nice plot after merge and planned a number of structures, leaving room for new ones as they were added. I did't care for the styling of the human houses. I like the ones with windows that work and balconies or roofs one can go out on. Staiways are nice too.
    I waited and waited but no new styles were released. Ended up adding human stuff. When the palm trees came out in many varieties I was thrilled. Unfortunately that was the last addition of much notice. Dragon lairs are nice enough and allow for a great amount of storage. But they don't allow for much in originality and all look like pimples on the side of a mountain.
    Future structures have been proposed as being modular like lairs. Does this meen the end of creative plot design?
    Dyes and the new dye kits are great, but what about some other styles to the armor itself. Where is the room for creative design which the game originally showed so much promise.
    I'm not talking high end stuff. Just new variations on the old.
    To me Horizons has shifted it's emphasis from craft which sets it apart from other games and drawn the unusual demographics it has. Instead it would seem TG is trying to make it more like every other game out there. They had a great nitche with a large market that was virually untapped. I fear direct competition with others for the adolecent market is going to hurt them in the long run.
    It is the mature player who is willing to devote the time needed to build. How does TG expect to keep the wandering young minds considering the work involved sounds like it is going up.
    Give us a sprinkling of new ways to be creative now and then and stop trying to kill us at every turn. That's all we need to be happy.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxfire
    Well, the carpet has been rudely yanked out from under me, and I don't see a replacing vision. I wandered out to the Thornwood yesterday, pretty sure I was the only one out there. There were 2 trees and 5 Treants. And 30 minutes later there was nothing but 2 trees, since I can't transmute that stuff. No group even close to required to exhaust those resources.
    It was kindly pointed out to me that I had forgotten about one of the Thornwood spawn areas, since I've never had to use it. I did know it was there, and I did not check it, so it may very well have been chock full of Thornies.

    I think I've had my tirade for now and will watch what happens. I still have plenty of other things to do than fixate on Tier 6.
    Foxfire Godspell, Ice Queen of Istaria, Dark Defenders
    Manta Guild Community @ Collinswood
    Knoc/Conj, Mastercraftswoman -and-
    Ravagice, Horde Fueled WunderWyrm

  13. #33
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    Thank you Hal`cyon, for saying what needed to be said. I know it does not seem so now to many, but this is indeed for the betterment of the game.

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