it saddens me so much

[Ivy]

I have been here several times the past weeks, hoping for good news so I can finally renew my account without beeing afraid to lose everything I did. I was checking the boards almost daily and almost camping here , hoping for something positive like a new patch or some words that would make me hope again.

I think its time to draw the line.

Look at the time that has passed since this "problems" started. Anybody with a slight sense for any business knows already that there is nothing to look forward to. How could something like this happen ? No company who plans to continue its work would let a money gaining product linger, if not "rot" like that. You cannot hope for revive after all this time. The only support you get is the server getting booted up again once in a while, because thats the only way to have the last poor hoping souls pay money for a dead thing thats no longer cared about.

You should go somewhere else to spend your time with. Please dont get me wrong, I loved this game and if there was hope I would never want to say that, ever. But even if they would manage a revive now there is absolutely no guarantee it wouldnt happen again. Who knows if the paying customers are happy enough to have an online server the next time. Leave, before you put even more effort, your personal limited time and love into something thats likely not to see another day/week/month whatever its gona be.

To be honest, I also wouldnt even dare to open an account on NA shards. After all nobody knows who really is in charge for this major failure, and it might just aswell be them going into the next communication blockade. Which might be followed by non-existant patches and non existant customer support. If Tulga had any way to prevent this you can be very sure that they would already have. Yet they didnt. If they cant or they dont want to nobody knows, any of the 2 cases is extremely worrying.

Dont bother yourself with it. I just realised how much it haunted me. Dont let the same thing happen to you and find something more enjoyable to spend your life with, because you only have one of it.The more you put into it, the more it hurts when you realise that its "game over".

[Caelin]

So true.
I recently came back to the game and I am enjoying it a lot.

But the lack of support and communication is worrying to say the least. I will not renew my subscription unless we get some info before it runs out and will not move to the NA servers.

I have two reasons for not wanting to move to the NA servers:

1) All the effort I have put into my characters and my plots. I am not inclined to start all over and see the work I have done disappear into nothing.

2) I do not think this is solely GN's fault. As long as TG do not comment anything, I have to make my own conclusion and my conclusion is that TG decided that they would let GN mistreat Unity. Because then the european customers would get sick and tired of GN and move to the NA servers. Which would mean more money to TG (and less work as they would not have to support a different server)

The lack of patches on Unity could be because that TG has changed something that GN can not patch (perhaps due to database issues) and if that is the case, then TG has sacrificed the european customers and I am not going to give them my money, that's for sure.

I am not saying this is the case. I am just saying that as long as TG chooses to be silent on this matter, we can only guess what happens. That is my guess and that is what I will decide upon until someone proves me wrong. Sadly I do not think that will ever happen.

[snickel]

I have 'lost everything' by moving from Unity to a US server. But everything can be regained -- with the exception of the friends I made there and whom I miss a lot. But I have been made welcome on Order shard and I'm on my feet again, and have fun hunting and especially crafting like before.
So I would think that the loss of levels, item, plot does not matter that much at all. The loss of contact with friends -- aye -- that does matter. And it is the best reason to try to hold on to Unity.

As for the GN versus TULGA discussion and the speculations about who is to blame - I simply compare how TULGA treats its customers and how GN treats its customers. Thats says enough.

It is my sad conviction that TULGA cannot help Unity. The horrible state of the Unity shard is a blemish on the whole game of horizons and I'm quite sure they don't like that the least little bit. If they could, they would do something, would have done it already. Yes, I would like them to break their silence because silence is so ambigous -- you can interpret it any way you like, hope or fear. But I won't accept the interpretation that they do not care for Unity or that they are (partly) responsible for the sorry state that shard is in. I have no reason whatsoever to believe anything that any GN official writes on the GN forum.

And it really saddens me that GN seems partly to have succeded in putting the blame at TULGAs door, and so effectively prevents players from continuing their Istaria experience by moving to a US shard.

It is my suspicion that GN though it does not provide service, wants to keep the paying customers a while longer and therefore spreads any rumor they can think of that prevents the playerbase from escaping their clutches (sorry for the melodramatics). Making them distrust TULGA may be part of that strategy.

Please don't fall for it.

[Seranthor]

2) I do not think this is solely GN's fault. As long as TG do not comment anything, I have to make my own conclusion and my conclusion is that TG decided that they would let GN mistreat Unity

Are you kidding? I suppose its TG's faut that GN abused their Mir2 customers also, right? GN doesn't need TG's permission to abuse you, they do it all by themselves and dont need any help since they are so skilled at it.

I am not saying this is the case. I am just saying that as long as TG chooses to be silent on this matter, we can only guess what happens. That is my guess and that is what I will decide upon until someone proves me wrong. Sadly I do not think that will ever happen.

With all due respect, what precisely is TG suppose to do to 'prove' to you that they are not the guilty party? You have plenty of evidence of GN's guilt by commision and omission. It saddens me greatly that YOU are gullible enough to belive the intentionally vague and self-serving comments that GN spews and grasp on to it so as to not place the blame squarely on where it belongs, GN. You pay GN, they are the ones abusing you. IF in fact TG was guilty of mistreatment then the NA folks would be in the same position as Unity and thats NOT the case. I'm not sure what the laws are like in your country but here folks are innocent until proven guilty, at least thats the way its supposed to be. This rubbish of labelling TG guilty until they prove themself innocent is just that, rubbish.

[Ivy]

of course everyone is innocent until proving guilty, but tell me - what prove of guilt is there that it is anyones fault at all ? Why do you believe that you - as a customer just like everyone of us - know enough to decide whos guilt it is If you speak in words like that you should also accept that neither TG NOR GN have been proven any guilt.

No matter what was proven or not, we still have the freedom to think what we like to think.

[snickel]

of course everyone is innocent until proving guilty, but tell me - what prove of guilt is there that it is anyones fault at all ? Why do you believe that you - as a customer just like everyone of us - know enough to decide whos guilt it is If you speak in words like that you should also accept that neither TG NOR GN have been proven any guilt.

No matter what was proven or not, we still have the freedom to think what we like to think.

If promises are made and never kept, if the server without announcement is down for hours, if not days, and no explanation let alone excuse is given for that, if support is nonexistent, tickets do not get answered for months -- that makes GN guilty. Guilty as hell regarding lack of service. And I have experienced all that, its not hearsay, mind you.

[Caelin]

Are you kidding? I suppose its TG's faut that GN abused their Mir2 customers also, right? GN doesn't need TG's permission to abuse you, they do it all by themselves and dont need any help since they are so skilled at it.

With all due respect, what precisely is TG suppose to do to 'prove' to you that they are not the guilty party? You have plenty of evidence of GN's guilt by commision and omission. It saddens me greatly that YOU are gullible enough to belive the intentionally vague and self-serving comments that GN spews and grasp on to it so as to not place the blame squarely on where it belongs, GN.

I never said anything about Mir2, as I have never played that game. I only speak about Horizon because that's the game I play. I never said that TG was the guilty part as you mentioned.....I think I clearly stated that both parts was to blame for the situation.

GN certainly doesn't need TG's help with mistreating their customers that's for sure. But if TG cared for the european customers, they should show it somehow and solve this situation. It's their game, and ultimately their responsibility. The least they can do is to say "Yes, we sold our soul to GN, so now they can do whatever they want with our game in Europe and we can not/will not supply patches to Unity anymore."

I do not think I am gullible at all. The fact that you cannot see that TG actually gets more customers by not helping Unity customers (as people will migrate to NA servers when their patience eventually runs out) is not a valid reason for calling me gullible. I felt that way even before some mysterious GN person started hinting at things on their forum. So it is in no way a question of me believing in anything GN says.

I am aware that GN does a lousy job, and the main part of the blames lies with them. But TG chooses to stand aside and let them do it, and that is why I will not just move server and start to pay money to TG.

[Seranthor]

I think I clearly stated that both parts was to blame for the situation.

Here you make an unfounded assumption.

GN certainly doesn't need TG's help with mistreating their customers that's for sure. But if TG cared for the european customers, they should show it somehow and solve this situation.

Here your saying that TG has some magical ability to take control of the situation. Whereas GN clearly has the control.

It's their game, and ultimately their responsibility. The least they can do is to say "Yes, we sold our soul to GN, so now they can do whatever they want with our game in Europe and we can not/will not supply patches to Unity anymore."

Here your again assuming that TG is chosing to let you twist in the wind with absolutely NO evidence. Your making another assumption that TG has NOT provided the patches to GN. Your intentionally forgetting that GN is the one that applies them and they can again LIE to you like that have so many times before and claim that they never got them which I dont see GN even making that claim.

I do not think I am gullible at all.

YOU ARE in fact gullible if you are believing what GN is feeding you with no evidence when the evidence of GN's abuse and misconduct is staring YOU in the face. Gullible is watching someone running around your flat pouring petrol around the baseboards and on your furniture, throwing a match and then looking at you and blaming the petrol company and YOU believe it.

The fact that you cannot see that TG actually gets more customers by not helping Unity customers (as people will migrate to NA servers when their patience eventually runs out) is not a valid reason for calling me gullible. I felt that way even before some mysterious GN person started hinting at things on their forum. So it is in no way a question of me believing in anything GN says.

I am aware that GN does a lousy job, and the main part of the blames lies with them. But TG chooses to stand aside and let them do it, and that is why I will not just move server and start to pay money to TG.

And it is YOUR choice not to move to an NA server, and its your choice to continue to pay GN who is actually by your own admission abusing your faith in them. However, your allegations against TG are still unfounded and thusfar unproven and until you or someone else can prove TG guilty of misconduct then I have to accept them innocent, at least in this case. Trust me I blame TG for much when I KNOW its their fault, but not even I am willing to convict them for something that they may in fact be innocent of.

Prove TG guilty with incontrovertable facts and I can assure you I'll be right there with you raising my voice asking for them to change their ways.

[Varangaard]

Sad to see you go Ivy, but I can see that not paying GN is becoming (or, has become) the only viable alternative; it hurts them in the only place that has any feeling, the profits. Whenever I have the chance - quite rare these days, heh - I strongly advise players against starting subscriptions on Unity and suggest they play on NA servers instead.

[Caelin]

Here your again assuming that TG is chosing to let you twist in the wind with absolutely NO evidence. Your making another assumption that TG has NOT provided the patches to GN. Your intentionally forgetting that GN is the one that applies them and they can again LIE to you like that have so many times before and claim that they never got them which I dont see GN even making that claim.

And it is YOUR choice not to move to an NA server, and its your choice to continue to pay GN who is actually by your own admission abusing your faith in them.

As long as TG is not providing any information what so ever to this situation, I am entitled to assume what I want. If it is wrong, then I would love for TG to clarify it. The fact that they are not, is enough for me to state that I will not begin to pay them any money. But it seems you are so set upon blaming only GN, that anyone daring to speak up that TG also has part of the blame needs to be called names. Clearly we see this in different ways. Guess we will never know, as neither TG or GN is interested in telling us anything.

Perhaps I am gullible in your eyes, but I guess I could say the same for you then. You clearly believe anything TG says...isn't that gullible?

It seems you are having some problems reading what I write. I started this discussion by stating that I did not want to continue paying GN any money. The least you can do if you want to discuss this, is to read what I actually write...

[Seranthor]

Perhaps I am gullible in your eyes, but I guess I could say the same for you then. You clearly believe anything TG says...isn't that gullible?

And here is your biggest mistake of all. Clearly you do not read the excoriations of TG that I offer up daily in matters where they actually ARE guilty of something. For you to say I believe everything TG says is so truly intellectually dishonest on your part, or perhaps you are just truly colosally uninformed on the subject. I also believe nothing GN says. The only thing TG has said about the matter is that they are bound by contract not to discuss it. I'm truly sorry that you are willing to seize on that and the GN lies as evidence of TG's guilt. Were in fact its evidence of absolutely nothing, not guilt, not complicity, not action, not inaction, TG's statement is evidence of absolutely nothing. Once you come to terms with that fact of life perhaps then you can again turn your focus back on those truly responsible for your situation, GN.

[Caelin]

Then at least we agree to not agree on us being gullible )
I was merely pointing out that if you can call me gullible without actually reading my statements as to why I believe what I do (and no matter how often you state that I believe what GN says, I do not believe a single word of what they say) , then that would have to go for you as well. I never claimed I believe anything GN said. As I stated in my first post, I made my assumptions based on TG and GN's actions. Not on their words.

We will probably never agree on this subject. You think GN is solely to blame for Unity's status and I think both GN and TG is to blame. Let's leave it at that, shall we?

[Ivy]

3clearly a TG fanboy who refuses to see whats right in front of him

Horizons is Tgs child, GN is just the nanny.

[Seranthor]

3clearly a TG fanboy who refuses to see whats right in front of him

Horizons is Tgs child, GN is just the nanny.

Who's a TG fanboi?

[snickel]

As long as TG is not providing any information what so ever to this situation, I am entitled to assume what I want. If it is wrong, then I would love for TG to clarify it. The fact that they are not, is enough for me to state that I will not begin to pay them any money. (...)

I wish you had read what I wrote. Yes, you are entitled to interpret that silence of TULGA any way you want to -- but it is really legally possible to include a clause in a contract that effectively forbids you to say anything about a matter. I don't know if this is the case here, I just wish to state that silence is not an admission of guilt. Silence tells us nothing. And there can be a situation when a company can have no choice but to keep silent.

Why are you so keen to believe that TULGA has a choice? Is it because you cling to the hope that there must be an outside agency besides GN that could set matter right?

[Caelin]

I am not keen to believe anything. It's not that I want to believe TG is a bad company or something like that.
I just see the facts and the fact that TG wins customers by ignoring Unity is a fact that I can not disregard.

And I did read what you wrote. It just seems everyone are ignoring what I wrote because they are busy labeling me a gullible GN fanboy or what ever.

I will stop the discussion here. I am not on a crusade to convince you about anything. I stated my opinion on the matter and tried to explain why I felt like I did. Clearly I didn't do a good job of it...

I think the best thing that could happen for Unity is that the people stopped paying money to GN and TG. Then perhaps they would listen and improve on things. I know that's what I will do.

[Varangaard]

I just see the facts and the fact that TG wins customers by ignoring Unity is a fact that I can not disregard.

Umm, no. Let's take of any rose-colored glasses we might accidentally be still wearing. Unity playerbase is tiny. And I mean tiny. When we substract all those who wouldn't be willing to start over on another server, it would be a drop in the bucket in their profits, barely making enough waves to be noticeable. Whatever the extent of Tulga's fault in this (if any), I cannot see them trying to fish from a dead pond.

[Seranthor]

I am not keen to believe anything. It's not that I want to believe TG is a bad company or something like that.
I just see the facts and the fact that TG wins customers by ignoring Unity is a fact that I can not disregard.

And I did read what you wrote. It just seems everyone are ignoring what I wrote because they are busy labeling me a gullible GN fanboy or what ever.

I will stop the discussion here. I am not on a crusade to convince you about anything. I stated my opinion on the matter and tried to explain why I felt like I did. Clearly I didn't do a good job of it...

I think the best thing that could happen for Unity is that the people stopped paying money to GN and TG. Then perhaps they would listen and improve on things. I know that's what I will do.

I personally have never called you a GN fanboi. I've said that your logic is flawed and that TG's absence of statement is no evidence at all of any wrongdoing.

Your suggestion that people stop paying TG AND GN indicates your complete willingness to convict TG with no evidence at all other than your flawed logic and your clear lack of knowledge of the legal contract between TG and GN. What exactly would you have TG say/do to satisfy your bloodlust? Would you have them say/do that even if it violated their contract with GN? Would you rather GN ran all the servers? Because if GN won a lawsuit vs TG that very well could be the result, or worse TG goes bankrupt. Then where would your precious HZ be then? Or is that your intent?

[Sigi]

So true.
I recently came back to the game and I am enjoying it a lot.

But the lack of support and communication is worrying to say the least. I will not renew my subscription unless we get some info before it runs out and will not move to the NA servers.

I have two reasons for not wanting to move to the NA servers:

1) All the effort I have put into my characters and my plots. I am not inclined to start all over and see the work I have done disappear into nothing.

2) I do not think this is solely GN's fault. As long as TG do not comment anything, I have to make my own conclusion and my conclusion is that TG decided that they would let GN mistreat Unity. Because then the european customers would get sick and tired of GN and move to the NA servers. Which would mean more money to TG (and less work as they would not have to support a different server)

The lack of patches on Unity could be because that TG has changed something that GN can not patch (perhaps due to database issues) and if that is the case, then TG has sacrificed the european customers and I am not going to give them my money, that's for sure.

I am not saying this is the case. I am just saying that as long as TG chooses to be silent on this matter, we can only guess what happens. That is my guess and that is what I will decide upon until someone proves me wrong. Sadly I do not think that will ever happen.

I agree with you - (call me gullible too )

Reading about all the frustrations with the latest patches perhaps we should be glad we didn't get them - every cloud has a silver lining.

[Varangaard]

Well, one thing became clear today. It appears that Tulga employees are legally bound not to speak about GN. That is, the owners of Tulga (whoever they are, I guess the investors) prohibit any discussion, not their contract with GN.