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Thread: Dragon self-reliance

  1. #1

    Default Dragon self-reliance

    All toons in Istaria have gift slots.. most toons have worked a class that will help them fill those slots for the purpose of adventuring and crafting.

    Most Dragons will take gifts from bi-peds.. but many a time there has been, that I have been asked or politely told that they do not except gifts from bi-peds.

    Dragons rescently have started a new class of crystal shapping.. and with this last patch have received the ability to tinker for themselves. (I thank you )

    Would Dragons be able to blend crystal shapping and Alchemy in one and make tiered crystals so that when consumed, could fill gift slots?

    So.. Malachite crystal of str = gift of str I

    and so on...

    The ability to make potions exist as does armor/jewlery/crafting crystals, that can be consumed, but only provide a boost as an enhance...
    this can help dragons have gifts of their own production.. but be used by all players. (so classes that don't get Augmentation can use too).

    Just a thought.
    As a Cleric of Harden I am duty bound to teach you his ways.
    or kill you trying!

  2. #2

    Default

    nice idea uther very nice idea
    100/96/21 32.2 mill hoard Killer 87% socializer 47% explorer 40% achiever 40%

  3. #3
    Seth
    Guest

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    could go further with this use crystal shaping to make crystals that are currently farmed for

    dark opal weapon crystals

    20 focused dark azulyte
    20 opal gems

    but its might make them a bit easy to get ahold of but makes sence to me but the gift Idea I must say is great I feel limited as a dragon having to need bipeds to provide gifts when I can only fill 1 myself.

  4. #4

    Default

    Wonderful idea

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Dravatar
    Guest

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    I'll start by saying I'm not opposed to this, but I'm not sure I favor it either.

    Because dragons have flight, I think to correct that they be able to add that ability to a cargo disk. This idea, in my opinion, further isolates the quad and bi pedal races, which I think needs to go in the opposite direction.

    You say that bi-peds would be able to use these crystals as well. Do these dragon "potions" detract from the value of the alchemy class?
    Last edited by Dravatar; July 15th, 2006 at 05:17 PM.

  7. #7

    Default

    Bipeds do not depend on dragons for anything.

    Why should dragons depend on bipeds?

    Dragons can't make food. Dragons can't make potions. Dragons can't make non-flying cargo disks. All of the flying cargo disks have 1 stack max. Dragons need a Biped item for their Khutit Form quest. Dragons can never get above Adv. Lv100, which makes it hell for a dragon to participate in a hunting party, that Mob AI bug where they single out the lowest level in the party probably sucks for a dragon, sinec they are Lv100 and everyone else is probably Lv120+.

    Dragons have next to nothing to make to actually put on the market that would actually be sought/bought by Bipeds. The lone thing a Dragon can make that a Biped would want, is Spells and Basic Processed Resources.

    That's a pretty hefty price to pay for just Flight. *blink*

    If you want to bring Dragons and Bipeds closer together, make Bipeds dependant on dragons in some way. Then we can talk. Until then, Dragons need a lot more from Bipeds than Bipeds need from Dragons.

    --Dhalin

  8. #8

    Default

    You level one school to make all that, its no price at all.

  9. #9

    Default

    This isn't a question about whether Dragons can do it all with one school or not.

    Heck, I bet some dragons would be full-willing to have several different schools in return for being able to craft more things that would make a dragon more useful in the Economy. Heck, If we split up DCRA into Dragon Spellcrafter and Dragon Scalecrafter alone would cover about all a dragon can really make. I mean, what CAN a dragon make anyways?

    1). Processed Resources.
    2). Scales and Claws.
    3). Spells.
    4). Lairshaping Materials.
    5). Flying Cargo Disk.

    Dragons can "Do it all with one school" because... eh.. there's not much TO make as a dragon. Bipeds have:

    1). Processed Resources.
    2). Tools.
    3). Weapons of several different types.
    4). Armor of 3 main different types (Cloth, Leather, Metal)
    5). Spells.
    6). Potions.
    7). Food.
    8). Jewelry.
    9). Tinkering Items (I'll even include Cargo Disks in this one)

    So the reason is fairly obvious why Dragons only have 2 craft schools, becuase the stuff they can make is very VERY limited. As I said above, Resources, Spells, Claws and Scales are all a dragon can actually make. My original point in all of this wasn't even what we can make vs schools.

    Its the fact that dragons NEED bipeds, but yet Bipeds could Easily exist in this game without dragons. If you took all of the biped characters out of the game completely, suddenly:

    1). No food.
    2). No potions.
    3). No Khutit Form.
    4). No Cargo Disks, except those with 1 stack max (biped cargo disks still have a few uses, the ones that can hold more than 1 stack).

    Take dragons out of the game:

    1). That one boss you "need" (its been done without, mind you) a dragon to kill.
    2). Flying helpers to build your buildings (you can do without, I'm sure many bipeds have built their plots without dragons helping them).

    So the only two things Bipeds ever "need" from dragons can be worked around anyways.

    --Dhalin

  10. #10
    Member Seranthor's Avatar
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    Dhalin,

    You cant remove dragons from the game, where else would the efforts of the dragon affirmitive action committee go?
    25 months waiting for expert CNF forms. Tired of the intentional deceptions and being kicked in the junk.


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  11. #11
    Member Vlisson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AA0
    You level one school to make all that, its no price at all.
    so its no price to be the same like every other lvl 100/100 dragon?

    to make a lot of stupid killing tasks to gain important abilities?

    i say: chancel the gift slots for dragons or give them the ability to fill them self (via potion/food/consumed crystals)

  12. #12

    Default

    All I'm saying, Seranthor, is that its absolutely stupid to make it so that Dragons cannot do things without Bipeds, but yet, Bipeds could live happily and blissfully without dragons. If dragons were removed, Bipeds could still do _everything_ they can now.

    If you removed Bipeds, dragons cannot finish Khutit Form quest, Dragons would have no food, no potions, no 2+ stack cargo disks, Period.

    I say we should make something that Bipeds _Need_ dragons for. Its only fair. If dragons need bipeds, bipeds should need dragons. Fair's fair.

    --Dhalin

  13. #13

    Default

    Dhalin, you're mind is stuck on dragon and bipeds, a very poor way to look at things. Bipeds have a robust craft system and nobody just starting is self sufficient. Bipeds aren't just one school that gets it all.
    Giving dragons just more stuff they don't need to rely on others with, and don't need to work for just makes hz more single player and less of an MMO. They need to change this..

  14. #14

    Default

    Hello?.. this thing on?

    What the Hell is going on here?

    Is this Rocket science?

    It is a simple suggestion.. you either like it or you don't.

    So I titled this thread wrong. I am suggesting a better way for Dragons to feel they can stand alone while still being able to contribute to the biped classes.

    I never suggested that bipeds or dragons be removed from the game. Please re-read the root of this thread.

    In no way am I suggesting that one be more important than the other... we should see ourselves as the gifted, locked in a common goal... Defeat the Withered Aegis.
    As a Cleric of Harden I am duty bound to teach you his ways.
    or kill you trying!

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalin
    Heck, If we split up DCRA into Dragon Spellcrafter and Dragon Scalecrafter alone would cover about all a dragon can really make.
    I've long thought this would be an excellent idea. Why should making scales give you spellcrafting skill and vice versa? Aside from that 'logical' viewpoint it would also give dragon players something to do for longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalin
    Its the fact that dragons NEED bipeds, but yet Bipeds could Easily exist in this game without dragons. If you took all of the biped characters out of the game completely, suddenly:
    1). No food.- Cancelled.
    Ambrosia yes, food no. With the confectioner changes that are coming, ambrosia will be a rare drop item, not a player-made item. So if you fight carefully and don't die too often then you don't need food.
    2). No potions. - Cancelled
    No-one, either biped or dragon actually needs potions and some players never use them at all.
    3). No Khutit Form. - Agreed.
    I too think the dragon growth quests (RoP, ARoP and Khuttit) should be completeable without the aid of bipeds.
    4). No Cargo Disks, except those with 1 stack max. - Cancelled.
    A flying cargo disk is more efficient than the biped equivalent. You don't need to have a multi-item disk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalin
    Take dragons out of the game:
    1). That one boss you "need" (its been done without, mind you) a dragon to kill.
    2). Flying helpers to build your buildings (you can do without, I'm sure many bipeds have built their plots without dragons helping them).
    So the only two things Bipeds ever "need" from dragons can be worked around anyways. --Dhalin
    As can 3 of the 4 things that a dragon 'needs' a biped for. The 4th one I completely agree with you on.

    I've been playing since about 3 weeks after release, and I've never EVER had a dragon refuse gifts.

    It fascinates me that if someone says anything about how powerful dragons are, then the inevitable reply will be "but dragons are meant to be really powerful". The same doesn't seem to apply to items made by bipeds. Bipeds have always made potions to make themselves stronger etc, precisely because they are so puny. Although a dragon might deign to use these potions, they wouldn't deign to make them.
    As for cargo disks, of course bipeds would teach themselves to make something like this - they're a tool and bipeds by nature are tool users. Dragons aren't, but I can well see that a dragon might deign to use the tools of a biped if they can help him.
    Personally it fascinates me that as a biped I have to train a whole new school to learn to make a cargo disk, and yet a dragon can learn to make one in just a few minutes (in any school) from watching bipeds. It would've made a lot more sense to me if the dragon tinker(!) had said "hey, I've been watching these bipeds and I've figured out a way to make those cargo disks of theirs fly".

    We need more interaction between the 2 types of races, not less. Less just creates more of a division between players.
    Want to give bipeds a need for dragons - take the whole spellcrafter school away from bipeds and give it to dragons instead. That will not only give dragons another school to level but give bipeds one less, which sure isn't going to hurt them. And it will create a whole LOT of need of dragons by bipeds.
    I'm a biped. Even when I look like a dragon, I'm a biped.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyssa
    4). No Cargo Disks, except those with 1 stack max. - Cancelled.
    A flying cargo disk is more efficient than the biped equivalent. You don't need to have a multi-item disk.

    I just want to comment on this- You most certianly DO need a multi-stack disk. It is harder to lug around than the flying disk, but a tarbash-type disk simply does not help in some situations. Ok, fine, you don't NEED a multi-stack disk, there are always ways to work around it. But by that logic, you don't NEED a cargo disk at all.
    Lumineux Talar

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumineux
    I just want to comment on this- You most certianly DO need a multi-stack disk. It is harder to lug around than the flying disk, but a tarbash-type disk simply does not help in some situations. Ok, fine, you don't NEED a multi-stack disk, there are always ways to work around it. But by that logic, you don't NEED a cargo disk at all.
    You're quite right, in theory, you don't actually NEED any cargo disk at all. But it would certainly slow down your lair building.
    You personally may prefer to use a multi-stack disk in some situations but that isn't a NEED. My dragon is 100/100/76 and I can't remember the last time I used a multi-item disk - certainly long before lairs came into the game. And yes I have a lair and the first 5 levels are complete. Nor am I the only dragon who prefers to use a Tarbash at all times over a multi-item disk.
    As long as you can make yourself some kind of cargo disk, then you don't need a biped to fill that need for you - and that was the original point of the discussion.
    I'm a biped. Even when I look like a dragon, I'm a biped.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyssa
    You're quite right, in theory, you don't actually NEED any cargo disk at all. But it would certainly slow down your lair building.
    You personally may prefer to use a multi-stack disk in some situations but that isn't a NEED. My dragon is 100/100/76 and I can't remember the last time I used a multi-item disk - certainly long before lairs came into the game. And yes I have a lair and the first 5 levels are complete. Nor am I the only dragon who prefers to use a Tarbash at all times over a multi-item disk.
    As long as you can make yourself some kind of cargo disk, then you don't need a biped to fill that need for you - and that was the original point of the discussion.

    Thats fine that you don't need it, but do not tell me that I or others do not. This gets into a nit-pickey definition of need. You don't NEED an internet conection to enjoy the game, do you? After all, the art files are all right there on your computer...
    Lumineux Talar

  19. #19

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    Dragon cargo disks JUST came out. Dragons need to stop having a cow when the super easy abilities they just got for no effort at all isn't 100% complete. Amon has even said in the future more disks will be discovered, and it took 1.5 years? for bipeds to get any new disks.

  20. #20

    Default

    *shakes head, looking sad*

    What has happened lately? Why is even a pure suggestion turned into a "Dragon vs. Biped"-Flamewar?

    FOLKS!

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