What REALLY drove players away?

[Aamer Khan]

OK, I just took a deep breath, so please bear with me for a minute...

I myself, believe I know why some left the game, because they stated the reasons they were leaving. There is anecdotal evidence that certain game mechanics changes ( often refered to as nerfs ) drove of some. With the exception of those that are vocal enough to post about their reasons for taking a break or outright leaving, most that did move on did so quietly, and with no fanfair.

So what I curious about is, what really made players leave?

Was it really game mechanics, so called lag, or poor performance?
Was it simple bordom? Did they have issues with the devs or other players?
Was it something else?

The answers to these questions will help illustrate what EII should do to keep players here and activly playing. Will ingame events run by players work? Will more content help? How about fluff? Will focusing on bugs and performance issues be the key?

What actually made YOU quit? Why did you come back.

And please, do not tell me what someone else said... only give me your actual reasons.

[Theolaerynn]

Why I left (in no particular order):

1 - Poor game performance on a rig that runs UT-2004 and EQ2 flawlessly at better settings.

2 - Endless dissapointments as features promissed on release never made it into the game, and new features were added or old ones changed such that what was once streamlined and fun became tedious and boring.

3 - Agrivation as the developers continued to struggle with continuity and with organized changes, and agrivation with them making meaningless changes like nerfing Dragon model sizes.

4 - Bugs should stay squashed, and not come back time after time.

Basically, I just got tired of the "one step forward, two steps back" approach.

[Solanaceae]

Why I left in the first place: Client performance. Its just sad to end up at around 4-6 fps after an hour or two of play. This still really isn't fixed as well as I'd like.

Why I'm here now: Save for a few select players on WWII Online, the players on chaos are bar none the best community of any MMO that I've played.

[Bhalzamon]

I guess the more somethings are said the better chance there is of them being heard..,.. and to that end I believe, nay i know that some left due to : aggravation at not having lvl cap raised, classes balanced better (i.e., disciple classes), tier VI construction resource availability and difference of appearance and functions should be more in line with tier and difficulty lvl, epic spells, and an idea to focus on biped problems with quests that have been non-functional for the better part of ... . almost 3 years now. I must admit that a few of the aforementioned lack of implementation of these things has bothered me more than a bit.

[Kulamata]

This is mainly in respect to the great exodus, that occurred before and after the merge.

As best I could, I conducted "exit interviews" with guild members when they left. Our guild at that time was stronger on the crafts side, with an unusually high percentage of women. Weighted more towards the "serious" than casual gamers, but otherwise pretty much composed of the "target audience". The guild core was formed in beta. Listed in order of importance.

1. Grind. The largest factor by far, and this was by the 4th month after release, (although for some there had been 4-6 months of beta in addition). Principally crafts grind, less so adv.

2. Nerfs, particularly those that increased craft grind. As one example, our guildmistress left on the 25 skill/tech level one, and returned only when that was rolled back.

This is when, and why, I decided that the nerfs were very bad business, and would run Hz into the ground. The loss of some very good friends who left for the reasons above really drove the lessons home on a personal level.

3. General aggravation; the lumping together of slide show battles, long ports, getting dumped, memory leakage, buggy updates... couldn't separate out any one thing, as they just summed for people.

4. Lack of content. Our Mighty Hunters, the fast adv. levelers were primarily the ones affected by this. Not a major factor in our guild though.

I stopped logging in regularly at the mith alloy nerf. I had hoped during the Chris T era that the game was now changing on a positive note; when it returned to addition by subtraction, I felt that we were going to see continuing slowing changes for the indefinite future. I was more discouraged by the trend than any single change.

[Kerech]

Some background: I played for 3 months of beta and for about 4 months after release. I was extensively involved in building the Satyr tunnels. I helped a bit with Feladan and with several bridges around the land. I had two accounts, but my highest char was only a level 24 reaver (with numerous subclasses). I quit in April, 2004. Last July I resubscribed for a month, then quit again. Now I'm back again for a time.

I absolutely loved Horizons at first, especially the crafting/construction system. What caused me to leave was a combination of factors. First of all, there was the unending list of broken promises from David Bowman. All through beta we were promised that all our concerns would be addressed by a "miracle build" that included tons of bug fixes, lots of optimization, and loads of content. Four months after release, we were still waiting and there was no fix in sight. Engine performance was annoying, especially the first month or so when server lag was horrendous.

Then, about 3 months after release there was a big nerf. I can't remember all the details of it now, but it had something to do with techs and who could/could not apply them (I think). That, combined with a couple of other big things caused a massive player exodus all at once. I was in a small guild that evaporated overnight. My friends list went from full to empty overnight. I hung on for a while, but it was boring logging in every night and having nobody I knew online, so finally I quit too.

Last July, I read an article about Tulga and what things had changed so I tried Horizons out again. I couldn't get back into it for some reason and quit after a month.

Now, I find myself back in Horizons again. I saw about the upcoming expansion (if it's still in the works) and about some various changes that had been made and decided to try it again. I resubscribed the day before the sale to EI. I started a new char to get a fresh start and that's helping me get back into the game, but with all the uncertainty surrounding EI I'm not sure how long that will last. Time will tell.

[Tigris]

Most of the people I know who left said the same thing: Client Performance.

I left over the ineptitude of the EI billing system.

[Jayne]

The ones I recalll said it was billing issues

[Zhul]

Ophelea's post on the GU Comics website was what originally brought me here to try the 14 day trial. The community I found was what made me subscribe (for two accounts actually; I got one for a friend).

This inept billing fiasco is what drove me away.

I am canceling both my accounts. I may start them up again, but only if EI doesn't take too long to fix this billing stuff.

[Justa Mirage]

I was never "drove" away and haven't left... but...

Watching my entire guild leave for various reasons the top ones come to mind:

Nerfs: the 25, 50, 75 crafting penalty drove the mostly crafting guild I belonged to away... not to mention the removal of certain abilities that gave adventurers too much of an advantage... so instead of gradually lowering the bar... they just changed things outright... no grey area... just "whack" gone!

WoW: The other guild I belonged to disintegrated when WoW came. A lot of players left in droves when the next best thing came along... believe it or not a lot of returning players are coming from "WoW land" going "what a boring game" and started playing their dragons or peds again.

Lag / Client: even though no one in the guilds I played in had much complaints about it... and suffered through the game even with the game glitches, you can't discount this one from driving some away.

[Magnir]

Slide-show like lag, memory leak, long ports, getting dumped from the game for no apparent reason and constant "No really, baby, I love you"-type promises from DB about bug fixes.

Oh yeah, the final straw for me was the third (or was it fourth?) client update without a fix to the infamous construction window bug. Hell, it was without an acknowledgement that the bug even existed in the first place.

That's what drove me off as a player right at the start of "the great exodus".

[Goriax]

All through beta we were promised that all our concerns would be addressed by a "miracle build" that included tons of bug fixes, lots of optimization, and loads of content. .

Won't comment on the other stuff you said but I couldn't let that one go by without saying something.

The so-called "miracle build" comments were satyrical comments made by upset beta testers about the poor performance. DB never said there would be a miracle build. He did try to put the best foot forward and mentioned specific things they were doing to address specific issues, but he never said there was going to be a miracle build which would cure all the problems. And there wasn't.

You can't blame him for stuff said by people who weren't even employees.

Bugs and poor performance right after release were definately a big reason for a lot of people leaving. In fact, there were new bugs introduced at release which weren't in beta (I remember the stuck keys which wouldn't ungrey particularly vivedly -- that wasn't in beta). Some people perservered because they saw something in the game for which they were willing to wade through the bugs and poor performance, and some people didn't. Perhaps I was lucky because my comp was powerful enough to handle it without it becoming a slide show -- even during the darkest days I could get fps in the teens and often 20s, Or perhaps I wanted to play a dragon so bad I'd put up with anything to do so; but I stayed.

I recall that the biggest howls in the boards were over poor performance and bugs and it certainly did merit complaints. Of the people I talked to when they were leaving, bugs and poor performance ranked high, but one guy also mentioned the fact that they were forcing name changes. He wanted to use a copyrighted name and they wouldn't let him, they gave him some aweful random number for a name, and then took forever to change his name to something reasonable. Another guy left to join the marines IRL. Several left when City of Heroes was released that Spring, although I'm sure other factors moved them along.

Oh yes, several powereleved to 100 within a few months and then had nothing to do since the monsters topped out at 80. Heh, they'd often use an exploit (a repeatable quest which gave a lot of experience) to get to 100. I wasn't surprised to see them leave so soon.

It really needed another six months of intensive bug stomping. Few if any new features but work hard at stabalizing the thing. Unfortunately, they had no money left and it was either release then or not at all. Oh yes, the fact that the company who made their engine had gone bankrupt the year before probably didn't help matters as far as getting it stabilized.

I'm convinced that if it had just run smoothly at launch -- even if the graphics weren't all that eye popping and even if it had no additional features -- it would have done MUCH better then it did. Probably not in the WoW or even the EQ2 category, but much better then it did. If they'd managed to keep more players they'd have had a bigger development budget (i.e. more developers) so missing features could have been added faster. Heh, they'd almost certainly have been able to avoid that whole bankruptcy fiasco which is what set the stage for it being sold to EI.

[Vidken]

If I leave, it'll be because the billing system was never fixed up to a point where it actually contains some semblence of security. I wouldn't have been able to log in because my account wasn't paid up.

I've had a wonderful time in Horizons. As much as I hate the grind, I love the community ('specially certain guildies), and I've had great fun during the ROP and AROP adventures with friends. I have a lot of time and memories invested in my dragon.

I really would not rather leave, but I won't pay up my account as long as the only billing options are painfully insecure. I have a good friend of mine who has wanted to achieve ancient status more than anything, but because of this billing bull [edited], she may not see the day. I'm sticking around to see what happens and will gladly jump back on board the same day I'm confident enough to send EI my billing information.

[Jazmyn]

I haven't left yet, but if EI doesn't get their act straight soon, I'll probably leave too.

[Duergos]

[quote=Goriax]Won't comment on the other stuff you said but I couldn't let that one go by without saying something.

The so-called "miracle build" comments were satyrical comments made by upset beta testers about the poor performance. DB never said there would be a miracle build. He did try to put the best foot forward and mentioned specific things they were doing to address specific issues, but he never said there was going to be a miracle build which would cure all the problems. And there wasn't.

Well, I was there, and I assure you, we were promised the "miracle build" time and time again.

[TheHaunt]

Originally, I was a beta tester for approximately 3 months, then played after release for about 6 months. I left when I reached a level where there were no new mobs to kill... they had a definite lack of higher end targets at that time.. and also because of the lag/performance... it just became too much of a chore to fight the performance to go kill the same flock of golems that EVERYONE else was after, over and over... the camping around that area was hideous and only made the performance issues rougher...

Then, I returned about 6 weeks ago after viewing a lot of positive-sounding things about Horizons' direction and changes made since I left...

I was hopeful... then the sale was announced... I decided to stick it out and see what happens... then... billing... <sighs>

I have posted a "Goodbye" post if you happen to be interested in why I'm leaving, AGAIN... "It's Personal, Now..."

[Goriax]

Well, I was there, and I assure you, we were promised the "miracle build" time and time again.

I was there too.

Oh yes, I remember the thread on Tazoon by some beta tester. Something about how Miracle Build (tm) will make all your problems go away. Went on for quite awhile. Others picked up on it.

DB definately was making noises like they were working on the problems, but he never ever used the phrase Miracle Build and he never promised the problems would magically disappear.

You don't actually think a dev would say there was a "Miracle Build" coming would you? I happen to be a dev myself (not in games) and if I seriously said something like that I'd be laughed out of the room.

[Kulamata]

More thoughts.

My memory of the "miracle build" is the same as Goriax's.

It did not cause players to leave specifically, but I think Hz was the target/victim of a negative viral marketing campaign; and Hz' failure to respond strongly may well have prevented potential players from trying it, and pre-conditioned those who did to be more negative.

It's worth remembering too that the first few months had events that had been pre-developed; the satyr tunnels, the freeing of Feladan, and the cleansing of the satyr islands. They were great, and offset the lag problems. Perhaps that's why it was the craft issues that pushed so many out relative to advs. In any event, the great events that characterized early Horizons ended.

Another issue that I missed mentioning earlier, that had a big effect was that many of the nerfs caused ancillary problems.... when they changed the combat queue to stop archers' kiting, the combat queue was messed up for months. Even after Tango finally cleared it up, it was never the same as it had been. That affected most players, but especially casters. Another example: spiritists were deemed too powerful, so marrows, the highest level mob in the game was made impervious to ethereal, so spiritists could do no damage to them at all. Some bailed.

Of another sort, we were asked what our favorite hunting grounds were, and why. So everyone carefully, thoughtfully told where, what, and why, so the devs could use the information to improve the game. All the sites were nerfed within a couple of weeks, an incident that was never forgotten and that did a lot to engender lasting distrust. It also created a perception of a mean-spirited quality.

Some classes were simply unfinished; elemental archers, monks, druids, guardians, disciples; many who chose those classes left rather than reroll. Attractive classes all, if they had not been stillborn.

And I don't know how I left out dragons. Great idea, but making them the weakest race, and then adding hoard leak meant that many who loved playing dragons simply couldn't stand the grind. And then they increased the hoard leak rates. Just amazing.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Well, you did Aamer, DUH! Pssh, pfft, yeah, and stuff....


And no, I really don't have anything constructive to add here. It's all doom n' gloom no matter where you turn and it needs some levity! /doestherobot

[Hiko]

it was three things that drove people away in my mind:

1) a long list of broken promises - particularly the promise of development. How was tier V implmented orginially? With the vielo - I'm sorry if I don't feel like paying over 1g for one of 50 forms when I was supposedly one of the richest on shadow shard with 20g. I can't imagine what that was like for normal levelers. What happened to the war with the WA? When did I stop leveling classes for character progression and started leveling them to kill time?

2) Bugs, bugs, more bugs. God this game is the absolute worst when it comes to performance. I've played betas and alphas that are more stable. It takes forever and a day to load up. Then repeat that process 8x for going through ports to find things. Then oh crap, Hz is taking up 750 mb of my 1gb ram and just crashed my computer.

3) Lack of potential for the future. There never was a lasting concept to keep people glued to their seats and playing this game. It was always just a hint at an increased tier. A little bit more of what you've already had, just with a different roman numeral. I know I may be in the minority of people here, but I am just not that excited about getting into tier VI items. What does that mean? Well just another long list of comps I've got to gather to replace everything I have with a "mithril" label to "Adamantium" The experience wont change much. I doubt there will be even a new monster model in tier Vi. just the same mobs, with more hp, and upgraded attack levels.

These are the reasons I quit back a few years ago, and why I'll be gone by the end of the year probably.