Horizons In-game Advocates

[Mojo-LaHojo]

I contribute my opinion to state this is extremely undesirable to have such an individual running around the game.

It is also my pondering that the people least appropriate for the job will leap for the job, while the most appropriate would rather not even be involved out of wisdom from how wrong it is for this game.

[Foxfire]

What a sad commentary on our culture and world that a manager for something can't solicit a volunteer, and promise gifts & rewards for energy expended without receiving such responses as in this thread. Do we not do the same thing in clubs & sports and a host of other group activities? Do discounts or waived fees really constitute pay?

I'm sure there's bad history and legal precedence, which is sad in itself, but I think that capitulating to such things is just acquiescing to evil. Another example of an overly litigious society gone wrong.

My post may be dissected and brought under criticism, but folks - they're asking for community leaders to step forward and assist in an official capacity. Is that really a bad thing? If any community can pull it off, would it not be what this one was (or is?) ?

[LaughingOtter]

Yes, it is a bad thing.

The people who would do this - who HAVE done it for years already - did so and do so for the joy of it. Without extra powers, without titles, without compensation. I'll be so bold as to put myself in that category, along with Blue, and Bulgrim, and Korth, and Hratli, and PJ, and Kumu, and Guaran, and Vandellia, and Seranthor, and too many others to name.

That's community.

This is power and reward, not service. It is totally different, and it is wrong.

[Peaches]

What a sad commentary on our culture and world that a manager for something can't solicit a volunteer, and promise gifts & rewards for energy expended without receiving such responses as in this thread. Do we not do the same thing in clubs & sports and a host of other group activities? Do discounts or waived fees really constitute pay?

I'm sure there's bad history and legal precedence, which is sad in itself, but I think that capitulating to such things is just acquiescing to evil. Another example of an overly litigious society gone wrong.

My post may be dissected and brought under criticism, but folks - they're asking for community leaders to step forward and assist in an official capacity. Is that really a bad thing? If any community can pull it off, would it not be what this one was (or is?) ?

Valid point.

Community leaders already have gained the trust of players, I don't think that they would do anything to harm themselves or the community as well. And when new players come into the game, while some can get help in the new player channel, some slip through the cracks. So I guess, therefore, it might just be a good idea, to have an ingame advocate, if anything, to really assist the new players.

While we had what was called counselors, ingame, we had limited powers, we were able to travel to the player that needed help via a special que set up for us. Ya, some took advantage of it and were removed. We also had the companion program, and that worked out well. with the exception of a few , and they got taken care of.

People don't like changes too miuch, they really need to give it a chance and see how it turns out.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

I don't mind change - as long as its for the good. This is an online community - once someone gains special powers over others, you end up seeing abuse. Its gonna happen, most of it will be harmless but there will be that "ONE" instance which is gonna cause so much damage..."Darkstaff" players in guilds getting special favors, someone using a "water walking" exploit to get themselves and their guild further than others, people getting things spawned for them and their friends... haven't we been down this road?

Peaches, Foxfire you guys are right to look towards what good people can do, expecting the best - being an optimist is admiral in this day and age. Its just that there's so many examples in atleast a half dozen MMO's where this just hasn't worked.

So far, there's no complete system of safeguards given to make anyone trust this won't be abused. Is it asking too much to have those safe guards presented?

[Altar]

Seems to me like there wasn't a question about it being done......however I think it is a poor idea.

[Peaches]

I wasnt around for the dark incident, so I have no clue what happened. Yes, I was around for the exploits of people walking through the water to buy the plots, but, they got caught, and were reprimanded? They sure didnt get to keep those plots either!

Yes, as I said, I was in a volunteer community, and it did have its bad apples, but they were dealt with on the spot.

Logs showed that folks did things that they were accused of doing and werent suppose to be doing, were either given a warning, depending on the severity of their incident to being banned from the game.

We have community leaders now, and we don't really know what kind of *powers* they will have, therefore, it lends itself to speculation, right?

[Silsarik Dracoen]

Well it's clear that there is some clear hesitation upon the part of the community about this whole "In-game Advocate" role, and I have to admit I'm somewhat apprehensive myself.

My suggestion is this: EI, why don't you draw up some sort of agreement document that would detail the sorts of expectations, responsiblities, and powers that such an Advocate would have and then also list the penalties for violation and abuse of their positions? Even if it's stuck in an announcment thread where it cannot be commented on it'd probably be a good idea.

My reasons are two fold, first it'd give the community a chance to review this contract and see if we as the playerbase could accept it, and second if/when the Advocates are put in place if someone feels that there's been a breach there can be a reference to refer back to.

This is going to be a three way partnership, EI as the company, the Advocates, and ultimately the playerbase. This would be a big change and if it does go forward I'd suggest that all parties involved be aware of just what's expected.

Thank you, that is my 2 cents.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

See, I don't mind what Silsarik offers up as a prelude to this. I don't know why we have to take faith that it "will all work out" on something of this magnitude.

What supervision will there be and how often? Can we take the supervision of these boards, or the Q/A division of this game, or the company's past efforts at communicating the player base as examples of how the Advocate Program will work?

They laid out some decent qualifications for joining this program - will we know who becomes a part of it? Will EI check to see if what the applicants email to them is truthful and verifiable? There are a lot of questions at this time that can't just be "taken as is" for me. EI Interactive needs to show me a bit more.

I've been forgiving the past few weeks - now its time for them to be forthcoming. I would like some things really, and I mean REALLY, spelled out about this program.

[FleshRoast]

I was afraid this was coming. Very Very Bad idea. I agree with the above posters we already have this no need to give people special titles ,rewards, and such.

TG/AE did this.

Didn't Azure have a special title for all the testing and stuff he did when RoP (not ARop) came in? I kinda thought he got the Serenity Guild (on Blight) for it, too. From what I understand, it was deserved.

There were also a number of folks that won various contests when Baela was around (I being one). We got special emblems, which when worn, change our characters titles.

Special recognition and reward can be an excellent motivator for the community. As long as there is a proper greviance procedure so that any abuse can be fairly dealt with, I have no problem with this.

[Peaches]

TG/AE did this.

Didn't Azure have a special title for all the testing and stuff he did when RoP (not ARop) came in? I kinda thought he got the Serenity Guild (on Blight) for it, too. From what I understand, it was deserved.

There were also a number of folks that won various contests when Baela was around (I being one). We got special emblems, which when worn, change our characters titles.

Special recognition and reward can be an excellent motivator for the community. As long as there is a proper greviance procedure so that any abuse can be fairly dealt with, I have no problem with this.

Very good, valid points. I say we give it a shot, and see what happens, and trust that this program can succeed.

[LaughingOtter]

Earning an emblem by winning a contest is not even close to what is being discussed here. This is a comped account with some degree of WM powers (or so I am assuming based on the mention of "support" and "event assistance"). If these people will have no other powers than any other player, then take nominations from the community or, better yet, go into the game and see who actually is making an effort to help people and base the selection on the actions you observe.

But to compare this to an emblem won in a contest or earned through in-game actions is totally disingenuious.

[Steelclaw]

There are going to be times when EII has to make a decision that will force the hand of the undecided ones into leaving. Look carefully at what the players are saying here, think about the community's past, and decide if this is even necessary and, if it is, if such advocates should be given any extra privileges.

To those at EII:
We have these things in game called 'emblems' that add titles to a player's name. Do you want to show us you're capable of growing Horizons? How about a quest to get an 'Advocate', 'Guide' or 'Mentor' emblem (attuned of course). No special powers, no favors, just proof that you passed the quest that shows you know a lot about Istaria.

While we're talking about suggestions, ask the TG folks about Darkstaff.

Yeah, theres a lot of good that can come out of 'special' players, however, it just takes one screwup to undo it all. If theres one thing that EII can't afford right now, its another screwup.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Peaches,

Being a moderator is not being an advocate for one side of an argument. I like you Peaches, but sometimes you abuse your position.

[Rammi]

put me down as being in favor of this concept. with proper safe guards in place i feel it wll work fine.

[Peaches]

Peaches,

Being a moderator is not being an advocate for one side of an argument. I like you Peaches, but sometimes you abuse your position.

and have the rights of a player to post. Or, would you prefer I simply hide under another name and post?

Not my cup of tea to hide, but thank you. I am part of the community, as a player and as a moderator. I will continue to do so. And as you well know, bringing up your thoughts about me, in this thread, is hijacking, so please don't hijack this thread. Thank you

[Landowyn]

This is a horrible idea and will ruin Horizons as we know it. Just my two coppers...others have stated all the obvious reasons.

[Fridlekh]

put me down as being in favor of this concept. with proper safe guards in place i feel it wll work fine.

Please define what you consider to be proper safeguards. I have not pondered nearly enough on the myriad abuses possible to some up with a satisfactory answer myself. *wait and see if/how EI responds* Seems to be most of what I do these days, and so it will be again with this issue. However, perhaps if a list of safeguards that opponents and proponents could agree upon were compiled, the next move by EI might not ruffle so many feathers.

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

My response to this is: "Why?"

Before all this happened every server had its own crew of people that were always there to help new players or people with problems. With the devs in IRC every work day most player problems could be resolved immediately or within 24 hours if they had to use the ticketing system.

This solution looks more like a cost-cutting measure than a way to improve the game. Players will work for next to nothing or nothing if given some sort of incentive, and without paid professionals you open up the world to ego-inflated anonymous kids that will happily abuse their powers as there are no repercussions. There's no incentive for a player to act responsibly if given some sort of power. Should someone decide to stop playing or know enough to get away with any sort of hurtful actions, EI puts themselves in a very bad position with this program.

[sierana]

Ok Normally I am very quiet here. But my time has come to speak up.

I think that it is time for people to READ a original post before they reply. It was not asked for feedback good or bad here. It was said We are doing this and if you wish to join mail us at [email protected].

People have asked for EI to start taking steps. Apparently EI wishes and thinks that this will improve personal gameplay for each and everyone of us.

We all need to realize that EI now owns horizons wether anyone likes it or not and that they will make some business decisions without feedback from the whole community.

Please be aware that I think our community is important and that it is important for EI to listen. But think about how many different opinions we hold as a community. If they put us all in a room do you think we could do anybetter at running this game with out a leader to at somepoint say yeah some like this idea some hate it, but We are going to try it and see how it goes.

That is all EI has done here so instead of griping,bickering,and fussing about what you think, how you disagree or agree. Why not go hmmmmmmm this hasnt been tried IN THIS GAME yet, lets see how it goes.

Seirana on Order