Lairbuilding has to be revised

[Nalrach]

When you consider what can be built on a regular sized lair vs a regular sized bi ped plot

Humm!!! that migth be a point, but any good size plot will offer quite a bit. My byped plot offer almost as much stuff to build then my lair (18 silo's, T1 GH, T2 GH, T2 Lib, T4 Lib, T1 hous, T2 house, T3 house, small house, medium house, 6 tents). Plus the fact that you cannot fit anything anywhere in a lair, often the shape of the mountain or the room next to the new ones won't allow to fit what you need. Plus the fact that, you need to place a lot of resources on corridor and stairs where it is a decorative option for a byped plot (sidewalks).

when you consider the incredible storage options on a reg sized lair vs a regular sized bi ped plot

Quick tell me what type of hall your building, because a T1 hall for dragon offers bulk 7,200 & stack of 60. I can't remember what my T1 human hall offer's but I wouldn't qualified the difference as "incredible"

[Nalrach]

Well I can understand your point of view, but on the other side, dont forget that bipeds have less bulk that dragons, need tools, have to use roads and cannot fly.
So, if they change that 1:1 for T1 Biped <-> T1 Dragon it would not be fair for bipeds.

Ouch!!! had to re-read my post.

First.. my byped carry almost twice then my draggon can, and not all dragon fly. Now that is out of the way.

Where you get the 1:1 out of I dunno. I was comparing that draggon need 33.5 time the same amount of resources raw (and like Chioxin mention for each unit, dragon need 2-3 type of resources) then a same human building would. I was ready to admit that if the 1 to 5 school is a valid point I could easily accept 5 time (or even maybe 10 times), but that 33 times was excessive and abusive.

[Nalrach]

It seemed that tedium was viewed as the hallmark of accomplishment....

ROTFL ...

So that what I never understood and was failing ... hallmark of accomplishment

[Death-knell]

What new tri-gems?

Min 25 characters? What kind of crap is that.

What new trigems?

[Dhalin]

There's a patch on Blight, which all Tri-Cut Gems are 1:1 to make... that is, 1 of each gem to make 1 tri-cut (as you know, its 2:1 now).

That would be so heavenly, but I doubt we'll see it anytime soon, as I've heard the rest of the patch is botched all to heck and back.

I, too, think the lairshaping is a bit much. Yes, I understand if a dragon can fit more in a lair than a Biped does, but think of it this way: A Biped does NOT need to build TRAVEL rooms... such as Hallways, 3-Ways, Bends, Slopes, Stairwells, 4-ways. We have to build those rooms just to connect our other rooms.

Why do these rooms have so many friggin resources needed? You need 14 units of lattice, 14 units of imbued bars, and 7 of the rest of the lairshaping units. Even with max efficiency, these rooms can take a few hours to complete. And that's JUST the Hallways. I think it should have been, say, 8 of the Lattice/Imbueds, and 4 of the rest. That sounds much more... realistic.

I just finally got to my Stonework shop. A Tier 1, mind you. And this room takes 80+ units of some of this stuff, and I'm going "Good God...." and just shaking my head. This is TIER ONE, mind you. And a Biped can fit a LOT more storage on a Biped Plot, than a dragon is ever going to get in their lair. Why? Because Dragon Storage Silos are HORRIBLE on Space vs Storage. I mean, Absolutely Horrible. On Order, there is a Biped Plot with a good 20 some T4 (or is that T5?) Silos on that plot. Do you have any idea how much freaking storage that is? There's no way in heck a Dragon is going to get 20 T4-T5 silos on one plot. Just isn't happening. Not only do they have THAT, but they also have 4-5 shops on their plot as well.

--Dhalin

[Dragoniade]

When you consider what can be built on a regular sized lair vs a regular sized bi ped plot , when you consider the incredible storage options on a reg sized lair vs a regular sized bi ped plot .... well , a lair is just incredibly superior, and IMO it should be equivalently harder to construct.


Sharduk

That may be true with stack if you build a shitload of hall, but when it come to bulk, dragon simply get the short hand by a huge margin.

Incredible storage option? Nope. I could get more storage on my barely built plot before lairs.

[Theolaerynn]

I want to point out right off that I think Lairs are nicer than Bi-Ped plots, plain and simple. But then, I am a Dragon and therefore I may be biased ;-)

However, folks seem to misunderstand a few things about the advantages of each. For instance, a T-6 silo in a lair is a *massive* thing and takes up a ton of space, whereas a T-6 Bi-Ped silo takes up less space than a T-1 silo!

While that is by far the extreme case, it is also the most common one too.

[Seranthor]

This topic has been beaten to death and there are already at least 5 other threads containing this same basic message/theme... It's my own personal opinion that the information has been cherry picked to slant the opinions of the less observant.

[pevil2000]

I like the lairshaping. Gives me a sense of accomplishment each time I make a new corridor.

I was comparing with my guildleader the other day, who was using one of his accounts to make a new plot of 25 t1 silos for us to use. I was currently trying to make a t3 storage in my lair. He finished his stuff in a couple of days. (I can't finish mine yet, need 3 more ls levels). However at the same time, we were having a discussion on building efficiencies. We came to the conclusion that size/resource wise biped silos are the best. However if you can live with the resources needed for a t1 dragon silo, you are best going for that.

I'll try to remember the numbers correctly but basically:
25 * biped t1 silos = 25 spaces = 25 * 20,000 bulk = 500,000 bulk
25 * dragon t1 silos = 25 spaces = 25 * 25,000 bulk = 625,000 bulk

So depending on what you want, sometimes the more effort for the dragon stuff IS worth it.

Whilst I can't deny that the time needed is kinda annoying sometimes (mainly the haulage time), it makes me proud of my lair. I'd also like to note I'm only a 60/66/37 dragon, so I can't haul huge amounts round yet (3500 inv, 9000 tarbash, 3600 standard disc) and can't wear t5 scales yet (still only in t3 atm). And it does get easier if you're higher lvl; a guildmate recently returned to do lairshaping (a 100/100 ancient) and got to lvl 75 lairshaping in less than a week thanks to the huge bulk he can carry + the t5 teched scales he could wear.