Chaos Issues

[Tanaros]

Or perhaps they are just upgrading everything to Vista!

*WOW*

[adastrian augusta]

Have been following these threads with interest of course and it seems to me there MAYBE no communication here for 2 reasons…

the first ..which in my optimism I prefer to believe is that … BECAUSE there are a few members who have an extended knowledge of how these games work, some I actually believe know as much as they infer by virtue of their profession… some maybe only what they have gleaned over the years…. and then there are A LOT of players like me who know nothing at all…who still have trouble issuing a command prompt in chat window I don’t know maybe it’s a case of a little information can be dangerous… I would rather stay hopeful even under this dark cloud…(yes I know that I maybe slapped for that..but don’t let my being an optimist be confused with being BLIND) than hear in confusion what is being “fixed� (or not) being translated here by someone who didn’t know what the heck they were talking about…I could not differentiate between a trumped up tale of doom by a player claiming to know what was happening.. than a technical explanation of the truth that means nothing to me. MAYBE they are quiet because they know some one WILL grab a hold of that little info and do something other than desirable with it. ..maybe they don’t know what they are up against yet because its a matter of economic recourses that put this game less than on top priority… and if you count the number of active subscriptions.. well you don’t need to be an economist for that one… HOW many games do they own and run??? Oh don’t answer that I dont really care…except that if it is JUST hz ….
My 2 cents.. it’s a game… if you want it to survive and the powers that be can (or choose to) fix it, well you’ll play when its fixed… OR..you’ll find something else.. lets face it.. no-one is going to be physically harmed.. and your all acting as if yr legs (or wings) have been cut off… no amount of communication ...or whining by us… will change or help the timeframe here... all i can deduce is that it is a reason the NO-ONE will want to hear...

that’s my vent ..im back into the game on order till the shard comes up.. or to stay there and enjoy the new challenges of helping to build and be part of a new economy…

the second I should post separately as it may get squashed

[SouthEasternRPGClub]

People may not have been physically harmed by the closures, but if you are paying for a sub..first on Blight to lose everything, so a new toon on Chaos and again to lose everything...the subs paid is a physical pain in the butt.
Subs cancelled and time to seek a better, more organised run game

[MadDwarf]

When you start to see system crashes and strange behavior, the electronics have already failed. It's not a warning, its broken already! :P

Of course, if you continue to leave the system in operation and ignore the failed component, ("Oh, just keep rebooting it, it'll be fine.") you deserve every bit of pain and trouble that will result.

well yeah

thats when I usually start replacing parts and seeing if the problem corrects itself.

Catastrophic failures happen when you ignore the various system warnings and server behaivor. They shouldn't happen with todays server technology. At least not happen if the admins are paying even a smidgen of attention.

[Thamoris]

I think the main reason people get so upset in situations such as this is because of the lack of communication. It makes people feel taken for granted. It make them feel unimportant. Nobody likes it when they are a paying customer being taken for granted and made to feel like they are unimportant. Sure..it is just a game BUT..real life money is being spent to play it. Real life time is being invested. What makes people upset that it took a very long time to get so much as post that took ..what...3 minutes to do. When customers see that 3 minutes of a companys time is too much to ask...they get upset. This wisdom draws from over 15 years in the retail / customer service business. The very first thing they should have done was post an announcement that something was wrong and that it is going to take a long time to fix it. Let all the players know that they are valued and this situation and their subscription is not taken for granted. This would have gone a long ways in regards to their public relations.
Then they should post regularly that they are still working on it but have no news they can share and to please be patient. Even posting that they have no news at all..is better than no post at all. At least it would show they are at least pretending to care. It's the first thing they teach the cashier at McDonalds...it's bunsines 101. Seriously..there is simply no excuse to leave their customers hanging like that for so long. None..whatsoever. Rest assured...PME will not be getting a single additional penny from me based on that one fact. I bet they have lost over 100 subscriptions ( past couple days )from their inability or lack of desire to communicate at a basic level with their customers....probably more. I know of 20+ just among my circle of friends. I have ( had ) 3 subs myself. I've never seen anything like this before.

[adastrian augusta]

Oh I totally agree.. but we HAVENT got that... have we.. my point...no amount of whining seems to be going to change that.. and if this is rl "investment" of our time then some of us are in serious trouble I thought is was a GAME

[Yulesh]

Yes, it's a game, which we have "invested" our entertainment dollars into.

When our time for entertainment (evenings for me) comes around, we expect to have access to our chosen (and paid for) form of entertainment.

I have 5 subs myself, and have been playing since release. I enjoy playing Horizons, and I don't want to see it fall thru the cracks.

Regarding time investment...

I've completed MANY structures in game, gained many levels, and padded my coinpurse fairly well.

Why?

"That craft shop will come in handy for future potion batches."
"That silo will be great to hold that adamantium ore till I'm ready to smelt it."
"This crystal-shaping chamber will really speed up my lair work."
"That 44th level of 'zerker will be nice for Battle Hardened." (still haven't done that one though).

Were these things fun to do? Yes, abolutely.

But was I happy that I could move on to the next "bigger and better" thing. Yes.

More power to those who are willing to migrate to Order, if that's the end result.

For me, it would end my MMORG life for some time. My late night hours would be devoted to more RL productive endeavours.

[Thamoris]

I still think referring to mmorpg's as " just a game" ..over simplifies the experience. There is an emotional attatchment to online worlds for many people. There is big debates going on as to whether mmorpg's are just a game. I think for many..myself included...it is more than "just a game"..it's a lifestyle. I think it's the idea of evolving and persistant world...shared with thousands of other people 24 hrs a day changes the dynamics of typical game play. A player can input emotion into this world and gets genuine emotional response back. This creates an emotional attatchment for many. If this was just a game...you could scream, shout, and act like a madmad with absolutely no emotional response from the game....but...in mmorpg's..you do get a response. People respond rather quickly in fact. Real people express their emotions back at ya. Super Mario Brothers, Donkey Kong, Pacman..those are just games..you can scream at them all you want and it has absolutely no effect or inspires no response whatsoever. In mmorpgs there is right and wrong..god and evil..happiness and grief...everything you have in real life. Why?..because you are playing with other people.
Then there are people with disabilites..who..for one reason or another can't leave the house. I have met many people with cancer, heart disease, mental illnesses, and various other diseases/ conditions that does not allow them to function well in real life. The are often shunned by society ..seldom fitting in with traditional social settings. In mmorpg's however...they can be whoever they want to be..it allows them freedom impossible for them in real life. Freedom to be funny, smart, attractive and healthy. Try telling them this is just a game.
Bottom line is...it is what one makes of it BUT for many...its alot more than just a game.
And PME is hurting peoples feelings most of all. People tend to get mad when their feelings get hurt.

[LOVWYRM]

Thank you Thamoris,

what you said is what I was trying to explain among other things in the post I just wrote.

I agree to 100%

[Annai]

Yes, Thank you Thamoris.

For a while now, I have been considering what this game is for me, and have been thinking about posting. I haven't said anything yet, because it would only be an addition to what others have eloquently (and sometimes not) already said.

Regarding the comment that this is just a game- that is wrong. However crazy it seems, connections are made here. Players feel attached to each other and to the characters that they have spent 100's of hours playing and developing and improving. I have heard the comments regarding books; that to their authers, and even some readers, that the books come alive. This is a more interactive book. The story is being developed every day that we are there to play. It's a Choose Your Own Adventure with friends.

I love this game; not blindly; but as one loves a first experience. I don't want to see it end and at this point, I am not ready to start over.

At this point, I am rambling and should stop. I have no real way to end this that hasn't already been said. Thank you all for listening.

[Kerech]

So... getting back to the topic at hand. Do we have an ETA yet? Not that I really expect one, but nice to let PME know that we are still waiting

[TelShyia]

Okay, my two cents worth here. This is an email that I sent to PME. Some might condem, some might praise, either way, is it my feelings and MHO. And we all know the 'saying' about those .

***
So, do you EVER plan to actually update HZ? Or just continue to ignore peoples support tickets? Maybe send in DE (DarkEnigma) occasionally to ‘look around’, maybe try to help others (which btw he has done for my toon and my wifes and is appreciated), not that anything was done/fixed, but at least HE made an effort. Now that Chaos server has crashed and burned, which we (all the Elder Players) kind of expected, do you plan to bring it back online anytime soon? Or is the ‘explanation’ that is posted just hype to get us all to go to ‘Order” to continue playing?
Boy I hate to sound so pessimistic, but I have been one of your (since EI and you bought the game) staunchest supporters; “give them time, new company, new people, and all that”..but with NOTHING done since July 5th for updates, patches, etc, I too, am now at a loss as to why I should continue to keep paying/playing.
Tulga made many ‘changes’ right before they left, in anticipation of other content that they planned to add. Now, those changes are stifling game play, not only for us “elders’, but for new players as well.
New Tris USED to be alive with new players, now it is just a ghost town! Loot tables are a MESS! T6 resources are NONE existent, so why even try to build (Ped or Dragon) that type of building(s). Guilds are reduced to people that just want to power level, like they do on the other games out there. I hate to say this guys, but, “YER KILLING US”!!!!
Things you could do;
1. Adjust the loot tables for t4-t5 mobs so the drop rate for techs, ‘comps’ as we call them are higher.
2. Add in T6 resources, like was mentioned in the june/july timeframe.
3. Or take them out completely – the t6 and remove t6 structures from being able to be built.
4. Adjust t5 so that they are a tad easier (not much but a tad) to complete.
5. Lower Nadia’s prices back to what they were!, or do number 1 above. (no one wants to hunt for 3-4 days and only get 1 – 3 comps from a mob.)
6. Bring back EOB’s (Essence of Blight) – the confectioner scheme just DIDN’T work. Why? Because players just did what they could to PL and quit. I only know of 3-4 upper levels that even begin to make ‘food’ and stock tavern.
7. Get rid of Ambrosia vendors (and ONLY do this if you bring back EOB’s) so that our confections can make Ambies and place for sell in taverns.
8. BE MORE VOCAL in what you do! Silence is NOT Golden in this case!
9. When a person submits a ticket, at least have someone from the company acknowledge it. The ‘idiot fax’ from the ticket system is okay, but FOLLOW up with an additional email to them from someone, anyone, so players feel like you at least care somewhat about their issues!
10. Ref 9, heck give that task to me, I’ll do it! (no pay wanted, no pay expected) just a INTENSE interest in this game and where it goes. I’ld even send you my qualifications as to why I am qualified to do so.

Answer this email (#11), would be nice, if nothing else to give me hope that you plan to do something, anything to keep this alive.

So in that respect, i think PME SHOULD show us all some respect, and post something about Chaos daily.
***
I agree with Yulesh and Annai with the very vaild posts. I have spent almost two years here in the 'game', and have ALOT of time, money and emotional investment into this 'game'.
The prospect of starting over on Order is NOT one I care to consider.
Telshyia - Ancient Chaos Dragon
100/100/100
(lets just say my Hoard level is comfortable

[adastrian augusta]

Thamoris…and Annai… You are of course right, maybe BECAUSE of the very nature of the way our connections are made, especially here…perhaps I forgot for a minute that SOME of us ARE in serious trouble, and I did not intend to offend with my remark (which wasn’t REALLY my point but still)….I love this game too.. and although I still consider myself new.. have spent a lot of time in-game over the last eight months or so, in fact over two thirds of the time that my main character has been created for ..plus my other 4 alts …2 subs 2 plots … I just don’t consider that my time has been an investment…diversion perhaps…and often worry about certain OTHER investments that MAY be being neglected while I admit to feeding my obsessions.. (there’s always the “other� side to the coin of course..and degrees of variations in between. but getting way off topic)…but it HAS been a choice… and if Chaos doesn’t come back up I shall choose to play on the order shard.. already there is an awesome camaraderie as many members try in anyway possible to rebuild what may be lost on Chaos …and I hope that all those contacts that I have made and cherish find there way there too and not sit around too long… waiting or choose to go elsewhere without telling

[Casyle]

Yeah... people who don't play games especially have a difficult time understanding that.

My mom would find it normal if I got engrossed and involved in a sport *used to be, but impossible now*, traditional hobby, et cetera. However, if I come out infuriated over politics in an mmorpg, or or such thing, she can't understand being that immersed. It's just a game! Bah, shows you don't play 'em.

[Justa Mirage]

Well written Thamoris.... just one more thing to add...

Toying with people's intelligence is another thing that makes people angry...

Most people that play MMORPGs are either computer savvy or literate. some are even IT trained and work on various systems (like me)

It is insulting to my intelligence that a company cannot make a secure billing system that could have taken people's money legitimately without double / triple billing them.

It is insulting to me that a company given a semi-working game could let it crash without having a backup plan to restore a catastrophic failure. We had entire manuals on the "what if" scenario of the domain / print servers going hardware belly-up and knew exactly the procedures to effectively reduce down-time.

Not only am I at a loss for not being able to play on my home server, but I am at a loss how a company that is providing basically an internet service (albiet a game) is having such a hard time with these concepts... even my friend could code a secure web based credit card system (which he has for several companies) and still it would be better than the "plan" that was implemented.

This is the pain I suffer... to watch a company squander semi-working technology that did work and allow it to degrade into a functional nightmare.

[Nalrach]

I don't make things up. What they told me is that Chaos is being worked on. Please don't shoot the messenger. It serves no purpose.

And I'm sure this pretty kitten already has used s few of her 9 lives.

[BKBanzai]

It is insulting to my intelligence that a company cannot make a secure billing system that could have taken people's money legitimately without double / triple billing them.

You are referring to Tulga here, Justa? As it was under TG that the double/triple billing and the account management issues began to occur. I have an account that they've been billing which is inactive, since well before the Sale. If you look on the home community page, there's a post by Ophelia dated July 3rd regarding the status of the billing "upgrade".

It is insulting to me that a company given a semi-working game could let it crash without having a backup plan to restore a catastrophic failure. We had entire manuals on the "what if" scenario of the domain / print servers going hardware belly-up and knew exactly the procedures to effectively reduce down-time.

I believe EI bought all the hardware/software to run the game, this would have included any redundant systems/fault devices, yes? So I am assuming from this that there was no backup system in place under TG should a server fail.

I do think that it is likely that given the proximity to the server that the downtime would likely be less and the troubleshooting, especially regarding hardware, quicker, but that's my ASSUMPTION.

Me, I'm just hoping for a successful transfer of server function and the game coming back up and staying up long enough for repairs/replacement of the original server. Oh, and being able to log in and play sometime "soon"

[TelShyia]

well, all things being equal, at least it is back up and we are all playing again! I am sure this was a 'wake' up call to PME, if i was the CIO, CTO, or just the 'head IT Dude" , etc. I would be implementing some kid of RAID system, so that should this happen in the future, the down time would be minimized. (or at least hopes this is the plan). Again, many thanks to all who helped in getting us back online..

[Justa Mirage]

BKBanzai

If someone sold you a diamond in the rough, junker of a car, would you drive it around knowing the brakes were shot, tires bald, and electrical system draining the battery?

No, you wouldn't... you would get a new set of tires, drive it to a brake shop, get new brakes, and possibly find where the problems were in the wiring to fix it up so it was drivable once again.

[BKBanzai]

No, you wouldn't... you would get a new set of tires, drive it to a brake shop, get new brakes, and possibly find where the problems were in the wiring to fix it up so it was drivable once again.

I would do what I could budget for. And a lot would depend on whether or not I knew I purchased a vehicle in such disrepair.

Any company is going to look at profit/loss when it comes to investing in capital and what has budgeted for the coming year.

I find myself amazed that so few people seem to have an awareness that a company has to MAKE money to spend money.

We all should remember that TG was not operating in the black. Subscriptions have dropped since the sale. Horizons is not a huge cash cow that is allowing all the profits to be diverted into development/upgrades.

I would probably guess that we're operating in the red, still and perhaps with the combined resources of PMI/EI giving some attention to the issues in game, that operating HZ might be at break even or a slight, very slight profit, but I doubt that it's got cash pouring out of it's coffers.